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Josh Freeman - what's his future hold? (2 Viewers)
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Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
Worth mentioning that the Jets don't look to be anywhere near the train wreck people assumed 10 days ago. The defense is especially solid.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
In other words... there's no chance I'm playing for you guys next year. Trade me now and maybe you'll get something for me.
Schiano + Glennon =
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
I really had not thought about a trade but several teams might benefit from this. Josh Freeman could start today in NewYork however the Jets may not want to chase after him.
Minnesota should seriously think about Freeman, he's a huge upgrade IMO over Ponder. Even if the Vikes might think Ponder is better, they need help right now at QB, why not take a shot on Freeman?
I think the Bucs are making a big mistake.
Minnesota should seriously think about Freeman, he's a huge upgrade IMO over Ponder. Even if the Vikes might think Ponder is better, they need help right now at QB, why not take a shot on Freeman?
I think the Bucs are making a big mistake.
loose circuits
Footballguy
every beat writer close to the team is saying that LaConfora's report is false. He's wrong more than he's right IMO so that makes sense
(Rotoworld)NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports there's "some real tension" and a "growing disconnect" between Bucs coach Greg Schiano and Josh Freeman.
Analysis: CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora adds that Freeman is expected to request a trade prior to Ocotber's trade deadline. Per Rapoport, Freeman's frustration comes from Schiano revealing to the media that Freeman was late to a team meeting and has "been late for things before." Dating back to 2012, Freeman has completed barely over 50 percent of his passes and thrown three touchdowns and ten interceptions over his last four games. Freeman is barely on the fantasy radar. It wouldn't be a shock if third-round rookie Mike Glennon made year-one starts.
Analysis: CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora adds that Freeman is expected to request a trade prior to Ocotber's trade deadline. Per Rapoport, Freeman's frustration comes from Schiano revealing to the media that Freeman was late to a team meeting and has "been late for things before." Dating back to 2012, Freeman has completed barely over 50 percent of his passes and thrown three touchdowns and ten interceptions over his last four games. Freeman is barely on the fantasy radar. It wouldn't be a shock if third-round rookie Mike Glennon made year-one starts.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
You're on your opponents' 36 with two and a half minutes to go and a one-point lead, and you send your halfback into the pile three straight times and settle for a 47-yard field goal attempt instead of putting the ball in your quarterback's hands *even once* to try to make a play? Or at least throw a six- or eight-yard out to, you know, shorten the FG a bit?
I'm not even sure Jacksonville would have done that.
Deserved or not, Schiano has obviously completely given up on Freeman.
I'm not even sure Jacksonville would have done that.
Deserved or not, Schiano has obviously completely given up on Freeman.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Stunned Josh has fallen flat on his face. Who'd a thunk it? A guy that can't throw a timing route to save his life and no advancement in the cerebral part of the game since he entered the league.
Schiano doesn't think he can win with the guy. He shouldn't be forced to. He doesn't want to pay Freeman the money his 'numbers' dictate. He shouldn't be forced to. He wants to live and die by his guy at QB (whether it be Glennon or someone else this offseason)
Downside of things is Tampa won't get much for Josh at this point. They should have dealt him in the offseason with a weak QB class.
Schiano doesn't think he can win with the guy. He shouldn't be forced to. He doesn't want to pay Freeman the money his 'numbers' dictate. He shouldn't be forced to. He wants to live and die by his guy at QB (whether it be Glennon or someone else this offseason)
Downside of things is Tampa won't get much for Josh at this point. They should have dealt him in the offseason with a weak QB class.
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Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
Horrible stink bomb. Clearly the staff's attitude has gotten to him. Weak mind ...he is toast. I hate that since I have a lot invested in VJax. Who wants him?
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Yeah, statistically Josh had another terrible day. He looked gawd awful at times, and deserves to be called out on his performance. But let's not forget that the defense had a 4th quarter with a minute left and gave away the game. Second time that's happened in two weeks. Imagine that doesn't happen and the defense makes a play, the Bucs are 2-0 right now, and Josh is a capable "game manager".
Martin ran for more yards than Freeman threw for, and there's the whole clock/time out issue. It's hard to really blame him for running there.
He has sub-50 completion percentage and more turnovers than TDs- hardly a "capable game manager".
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Brady is a 2-0 QB that's played terrible, but he gets a pass for his rings, but at the end of the day the only thing that anyone cares about are the wins. If the Bucs were 2-0 right now, Freeman wouldn't be getting the flack he's getting here.
renesauz
IBL Representative
A small lead on an explosive offense and poor Offensive/STs play gave one the league's top QBs the ball on his own 37 with plenty of time on the clock. Sorry...
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Brady has an above 50 completion percentage- and more TDs than turnovers- with inferior WRs (even if we're completely ignoring their pasts). Freeman may not get the same amount of flack as he's getting now if they were 2-0, but that probably would have required him to have played better. He's been awful.
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If the Bucs got even average QB play the last two games, they'd be 2-0.
EDIT: List the QBs who would NOT be an improvement over Freeman right now. I'm thinking you throw a Stafford, Bradford, Dalton, Cutler, Luck on this team, they would be hard to beat.
EDIT: List the QBs who would NOT be an improvement over Freeman right now. I'm thinking you throw a Stafford, Bradford, Dalton, Cutler, Luck on this team, they would be hard to beat.
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
How about poor coaching to call those conservative playcalls at the 30 when they had to settle for a long FG? How about blaming the kicker for shanking that kick that would have given them a 4 pt lead? How about blaming Schiano for not punting and making them go the length of the field? The defense played it's heart out, but coaching could have put them in a better position. Plenty of blame to go around.
Four games last year lost in the 4th quarter, and this year they already have lost 2 4th quarter leads. Lets not oversell the defense either.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
For the record, Freeman blows. I'm no apologist, but he's getting way too much of the blame for the losses. Tampa needs to move on to the Glennon era already, to see if he's for real or plan to draft a QB next year. Freeman's done.
So first the defense gave away the game (both weeks), then they played their hearts out and blame the playcalling and kicker, then back to let's not oversell the defense because they keep giving up leads?
Any other excuses for Freeman?
renesauz
IBL Representative
There are a lot of things to complain about with the coaching, the play calling, the Offense, and the ST's...but the defense doesn't belong on that list....they held a dangerous offense to 16 points and scored half of Tampa's 14 points. They were absolutely the only reason the team was even alive in that game in the fourth quarter, and deserve zero blame for that loss.
Come on, Raiderfan, the defense did its job today. Sure, blame the kicker and coach. Honestly, I missed the reason why Lindell is kicking for the Bucs. I think their main kicker got injured, but something fishy seems to have happened with Tynes?
The Bucs D held the high-octane NO offense in check. They did their job. Both games, really. QB, K, Coach -- mostly, QB and Coach. It's the conflict between the two that's killer.
IMO the decline of the Bucs started with the Raheem Morris hiring and it's been circling the drain ever since. I think overall the GM has done a great job assembling talent, but the two most important pieces -- HC and QB -- are missing, so they are wasting away the rest of the talent.
The Bucs D held the high-octane NO offense in check. They did their job. Both games, really. QB, K, Coach -- mostly, QB and Coach. It's the conflict between the two that's killer.
IMO the decline of the Bucs started with the Raheem Morris hiring and it's been circling the drain ever since. I think overall the GM has done a great job assembling talent, but the two most important pieces -- HC and QB -- are missing, so they are wasting away the rest of the talent.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
There's a lot of things about Schiano that rub a lot of people the wrong way. His "toes on the line" mantra that ran malcontents like Talib and Winslow out of town. His diving at the knees on kneeldowns all universally considered bush league. But I do know this about Schiano, he believes strongly in his words with personal conviction. I went to the Raymond James stadium this spring for an all-pro dads event and Schiano talked about his corny "FAMILY" acronym. "forget about me, I love you". He talked about the struggles of raising his 4 kids and balancing work and family. Having 4 kids myself, I really could feel his sincerity of message.
Now how does that relate to Freeman? I just don't think Freeman has the commitment to the same goals or buys into the FAMILY ideal that Schiano preaches. Look at how that team responded today. The news of Freeman leaked 3 hours before the game that he wanted to be traded. Is that something a family type person who do? No that was a #### move. Whether it was confirmed or not, it got out there. And the local pundits were carrying on about the news like the sky was falling. 52 guys put their hearts out there for their coach, but one guy just going thru the motions.
lardonastick
Footballguy
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Schiano has never had Josh's back from day 1, as far as I can tell. It's been clear for some time that Schiano wants "his guy" in there. Yet, Josh is supposed to put his heart out there for Schiano? I think Josh is playing really poorly and is costing the Bucs big time. However, it is also true that Freeman hasn't had consistent good coaching during his time in the league either. If I were him, I'd be pretty frustrated with that kind of treatment too. He's still young, his ceiling is still in front of him, but Schiano hasn't invested in Freeman at all.
There is blame on both sides of the HC - QB equation and it's going to cause the Bucs to implode. Freeman will likely get a second chance somewhere and Schiano will use Freeman as a scapegoat for his second chance next season.
The second point leads me to believe the we won't see Glennon right away. Freeman will be trotted out there as a sacrificial lamb for awhile, so Schiano can point to Freeman as the reason why he deserves a second chance with "his guy" Glennon next season. When THAT tanks, Schiano will be gone, the Bucs will have missed their window, and it will be total rebuild time. The GM might get the punt at that point too.
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TwinTurbo
Footballguy
I think it's going to come out eventually that more than a few of the 52 players don't respect Schiano either. This is a control freak coach that belongs in college, not the pros. The NFL isn't Rutgers. I'm not advocating for Freeman but Schiano is not as good as he thinks he is. And that corny acronym inspirational poster stuff doesn't work in the big leagues, nor does it mask his horrible clock management skills or game day decision making mistakes. I don't think he lasts long in the NFL.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
No team has all 53 guys buy into the team concept like they did back in the Vince Lombardi era. That kind of loyalty doesn't exist, even if it's intrinsic to the success of coach Schiano's plan. Every player is there own independent contractor, for lack of calling them mercenaries, which is more accurate. Guys will buy into the "family" and team discipline tenets only on the condition that they see their head coach can prove he's got a plan that wins. The jury is still out on that.
Schiano has failed to instill the discipline he preaches, and the Bucs are near the top of the league in penalties after two games. How can you talk about discipline and accountability and continue to have dumb, emotional penalties on the field? Loyalty is a two way street. When these mercenaries start to see their market value decline because of poor coaching, it's going to lead to a fallout with the head coach. This is a business relationship. The coach helps the players to improve, win games and in turn, the players "buy in" to the master plan and go through brick walls for the coach. But there is enough smoke not to see the fire now. It won't be long before this becomes a vicious circle and he loses the team, if not already.
Freeman after the game denied all the trade rumors, but listening to his mumbly voice, it doesn't sound very convincing. He's not handling the press very well, and I would think Jason LaConfora has some sort of rebuttal coming and Josh will have some explaining to do. He's sub .500 completion percentage, and has really regressed. Looks like the 2010 season was an abberation. He can't process the information in the 10 seconds or so it takes from breaking huddle to play, can't get people lined up at times, can't read defenses, mechanics all wrong and out of sync. But the biggest problem with Freeman is not physical, it's mental. He does not have the pocket awareness or arm talent to take what the defense are giving him. He doesn't even use his wheels anymore. Deer in the headlights. Josh is a trainwreck.
Mr. Irrelevant
IBL Representative
There are two types of coaches in the NFL (or any professional sport): those who play not to lose, and those who play to win.
Running your halfback into the line three straight times when the best outcome you can realistically hope for is a 45+ yard field goal attempt followed by kicking the ball back to Drew Brees is pretty much the definition of playing not to lose.
It's the kind of play calling you run, in other words, when you've got someone under center you absolutely, positively do not trust to pick up a first down or two for your team.
Sorry, but it's ridiculous to say that the best outcome you can realistically hope for is a 45+ yard field goal attempt. They ran the ball 3 straight times before that and got a first down, didn't they?
Your last sentence is absolutely true, however I don't see how you can blame him based on his performance. Seriously, 9-22 for 125 with a pick and a fumble, against a historically bad defense (last season). Giving the ball to your stud RB who averaged 5 ypc doesn't strike me as outlandish.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I seem to be doing this on a weekly basis, but...
At least two atrocious drops by Vincent Jackson that would have extended drives, a nice deep ball down the sideline goes off Ogletree's hands, another great throw from Josh to Mike Williams but he fails to drag his second foot, a 73 yard TD to Jackson (granted, a great play by VJ) negated by a stupid penalty on Dotson for not lining up correctly, and then on 3rd and 6 when you can kneel it down if you get a first you don't let the QB who has made two great throws for first downs on this drive throw the football.
Schiano is a stubborn idiot, and they're going to run this kid out of town. It's a shame.
QB A is Josh Freeman's 2012 (his 4th season):
306 completions, 558 attempts, 27 TDs, 17 INTs, 4,065 yards, 7.3 yards per attempt
QB B right before he was run out of town (his 5th season):
323 completions, 500 attempts, 24 TDs, 15 INTs, 3,756 yards, 7.2 yards per attempt
QB B is Drew Brees.
At least two atrocious drops by Vincent Jackson that would have extended drives, a nice deep ball down the sideline goes off Ogletree's hands, another great throw from Josh to Mike Williams but he fails to drag his second foot, a 73 yard TD to Jackson (granted, a great play by VJ) negated by a stupid penalty on Dotson for not lining up correctly, and then on 3rd and 6 when you can kneel it down if you get a first you don't let the QB who has made two great throws for first downs on this drive throw the football.
Schiano is a stubborn idiot, and they're going to run this kid out of town. It's a shame.
QB A is Josh Freeman's 2012 (his 4th season):
306 completions, 558 attempts, 27 TDs, 17 INTs, 4,065 yards, 7.3 yards per attempt
QB B right before he was run out of town (his 5th season):
323 completions, 500 attempts, 24 TDs, 15 INTs, 3,756 yards, 7.2 yards per attempt
QB B is Drew Brees.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
And that's on Josh Freeman. He's horrible at clock management. Usually breaking huddle with 10 or 11 seconds left on the play clock. He's struggling to get guys lined up right, meanwhile the defense is shifting, showing multiple looks, and he's got a handful of seconds to read it and diagnose it. It's his job to get people where they need to be. You watch Peyton Manning and he's barking at guys in real time processing the defense scanning side to side. Look at Josh and he looks like he's barely ready for the ball to be snapped.
You can't go by his 2012 stats anymore, he's been absolutely awful in 2013. No way to apologize for Josh Freeman to ever have another crack at a starting QB job.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
It's on Josh to make sure the RT isn't giving himself too much of a cushion to prepare for the rush? Come on. You seemed to cut out the other mistakes by the WRs I mentioned. I'm not saying Josh has been this great QB so far, but these losses aren't all on him.
There have only been 2 games in 2013. Are we throwing out all of Tom Brady's career numbers too? What numbers should we be going by?
The point was Josh is going to get run out of Tampa just like Brees was run out of San Diego. Josh's 2012 was statistically comparable if not more impressive than Brees' last season in SD.
He'll get another crack somewhere, and he'll probably make the Bucs look like fools for letting him get away.
cstu
Footballguy
During Brees' breakout year he completed 65% of his passes, Freeman completed 55% last year.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The Bucs' offense is vertical. Hence Vincent Jackson leading the NFL in yards per catch.
I don't know how legitimate the comparison is? However, the point was to show Freeman's stats vs. Brees' right before getting kicked to the curb. I find it interesting, and ironic that Buc fans continue to compare Josh to these elite QBs, especially Brees, when he just had a similar season statistically at nearly identical points in their careers.
Brees took his cerebral game to another level in New Orleans. I don't know if that can happen with Josh, but the talent is there, just like it was with Brees, and it looks like Tampa Bay is about to give up on Josh the same way San Diego gave up on Drew.
gump
Footballguy
I wasn't going to post this hearsay, but since its out there now....
A friend of mine has 2 Buc neighbors. He told me a month ago that these guys told him that Freeman is a coke head.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
It would not surprise me to discover Freeman is a coke head. I don't know how long he's been one, but you can tell from his rookie interviews, his answers were sharp and focused back then. Now, he tends to ramble, slur his words, lots of pregnant pauses, er, ums, seems to start a thought and forget what point he was trying to make. His interview this summer after missing his own summer QB camp was bizarre. I was never calling out Quez for saying he didn't good info on Josh's addiction, just wanted a reliable source. The truth will come out sooner or later.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
That was some awful game for both teams, and there was bad weather and the Saints' defense has gotten much much better, but Freeman was terrible - 9/22/125/1/1 doesn't really tell the story. That teams just looks like it is waiting for a real top flight QB to take over but it has nowehere to go.
They have to move on from Freeman, he's hit his ceiling.
But that other stuff is ugly, now they can't deal with it on a football level, now it's personal.
They have to move on from Freeman, he's hit his ceiling.
But that other stuff is ugly, now they can't deal with it on a football level, now it's personal.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
That's a pretty serious accusation. He did lose a ton of weight after the 2011 season. 
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
No way of telling if that's true, but it doesn't seem farfetched. And would certainly explain a lot and change how all this looks.
Quez
Footballguy
There are tons of JF rumors swirling around down here. I only posted the one since it was said on the Bucs Radio network 620 WDAE. For those who are interested in baseless rumors Google "Josh Freeman thedirty".
lmao at Josh Freeman trade rumors. What on earth would someone trade for this guy? Oh, and the TD that got called back wasn't a good pass. It was short, but V-Jax is a beast and caught it anyways.
Freeman was awful. Coaching sucked, but I'm not jumping on Schiano yet like everyone else around here. He has 31 other coaches on staff with a good amount of NFL experience. What is the answer? Hire more? Fire 1? Give the guy at least until the end of the season before calling for his head.
In my opinion the GM needs to be the first one to go. Dominick has made tons of horrible decisions starting with the resigning of Michael Clayton.
lmao at Josh Freeman trade rumors. What on earth would someone trade for this guy? Oh, and the TD that got called back wasn't a good pass. It was short, but V-Jax is a beast and caught it anyways.
Freeman was awful. Coaching sucked, but I'm not jumping on Schiano yet like everyone else around here. He has 31 other coaches on staff with a good amount of NFL experience. What is the answer? Hire more? Fire 1? Give the guy at least until the end of the season before calling for his head.
In my opinion the GM needs to be the first one to go. Dominick has made tons of horrible decisions starting with the resigning of Michael Clayton.
