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Josh Freeman - what's his future hold?


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I have read so many of these same posts on my Rutgers message board over the years...

There are Rutgers message boards?

Yeah, that's where I found out about all the other #### coaches that he was taking from Rutgers with him to TB. I shared the news on one of your forums (Pewter Report maybe?) along with plenty of warnings.

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I have read so many of these same posts on my Rutgers message board over the years...

There are Rutgers message boards?

Yeah, that's where I found out about all the other #### coaches that he was taking from Rutgers with him to TB. I shared the news on one of your forums (Pewter Report maybe?) along with plenty of warnings.

I think the Glaziers were well aware of his inexperience, and that is why they have invested so much in assistants. 32 coaches! More than any other team, and they can't get this together? What a mess!

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Imagine V Jackson on a team with even an average QB. He is so good. I don't watch many Bucs games but I am guessing he gets double teamed all day? Every week he seems to perform though.

Glennon starts week 4 if Bucs go 0-3.

Every goal line play yesterday (all of 3 of them?) he was double or triple teamed. And every other play other than a few had the safety rotating over to him.

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Darrel Revis picked a great time to open his mouth, as if we didn't have enough off-field distractions. The D game plan was great Sunday. The O lost the game. I assume the last few minutes was a generic prevent zone. The D coordinator Sheridan really needs to work man into that.

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Darrel Revis picked a great time to open his mouth, as if we didn't have enough off-field distractions. The D game plan was great Sunday. The O lost the game. I assume the last few minutes was a generic prevent zone. The D coordinator Sheridan really needs to work man into that.

Sounds as if you side with Revis, regarding his complaint of there being not enough man coverage, but yet he's a loudmouth? Seriously, his comments that Schiano is different from Rex Ryan is a "water is wet" statement. You think Darrelle? NY is a circus and has been for awhile and Schiano runs the tight disciplinarian role. We knew this already. And how can Revis complain about lack of man to man coverage, when he already admitted he's less than 100% coming back off his rehab? Revis has been playing very well so far, setting the edge on runs and excellent coverage. Why does he need to spoil a good start with pointless and baseless criticisms?

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Any Jackson owners getting concerned about the pending (seemingly inevitable) switch to Glennon, or is he just so good that he overcomes QB situation?

Potentially could be a good time to sell him off for another top 10 WR if the sinking ship continues its downward path.

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Darrel Revis picked a great time to open his mouth, as if we didn't have enough off-field distractions. The D game plan was great Sunday. The O lost the game. I assume the last few minutes was a generic prevent zone. The D coordinator Sheridan really needs to work man into that.

They played zone about half the game Sunday. Despite the D playing well overall it was pretty astonishing to see Revis in a zone.

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Shaun King is on local radio right now. He mentioned something I hadn't heard before.

That team photo that Freeman missed? Schiano scheduled it for 6:30am on Labor Day. Dude is just such an ###.

im not so sure 630 am OR Labor day is an issue. Being at the facility at 6 (or well before) is normal for monday of game week. It would be first on my agenda as well since cuts were just finalized and it is a requirement. Where was freeman Sunday night would be the real question here to miss being at facility on Monday of game week and opening day. tells me a lot about him...i guarantee you rodgers, brees, brady, manning and the like were not in a bed on monday morning at 6am

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Shaun King is on local radio right now. He mentioned something I hadn't heard before.

That team photo that Freeman missed? Schiano scheduled it for 6:30am on Labor Day. Dude is just such an ###.

What does that have to do with anything. These guys don't often get Christmas Day off, much less Labor Day

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Shaun King is on local radio right now. He mentioned something I hadn't heard before.

That team photo that Freeman missed? Schiano scheduled it for 6:30am on Labor Day. Dude is just such an ###.

What does that have to do with anything. These guys don't often get Christmas Day off, much less Labor Day

It has to do with a former NFL player pointing out that needlessly scheduling a photo for 6:30am is a d-bag move designed to make sure the players know who's in charge -- which given the coach's history of d-bag moves designed to make sure the players know who's in charge at all times isn't playing very well with the team. (Freeman still should have made it though.)

HTH

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Shaun King is on local radio right now. He mentioned something I hadn't heard before.

That team photo that Freeman missed? Schiano scheduled it for 6:30am on Labor Day. Dude is just such an ###.

What does that have to do with anything. These guys don't often get Christmas Day off, much less Labor Day

It has to do with a former NFL player pointing out that needlessly scheduling a photo for 6:30am is a d-bag move designed to make sure the players know who's in charge -- which given the coach's history of d-bag moves designed to make sure the players know who's in charge at all times isn't playing very well with the team. (Freeman still should have made it though.)

HTH

Player meetings usually start at 7 am. You seemed to be thinking this is a 9-5.

It's not. HTH

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Shaun King is on local radio right now. He mentioned something I hadn't heard before.

That team photo that Freeman missed? Schiano scheduled it for 6:30am on Labor Day. Dude is just such an ###.

What does that have to do with anything. These guys don't often get Christmas Day off, much less Labor Day

It has to do with a former NFL player pointing out that needlessly scheduling a photo for 6:30am is a d-bag move designed to make sure the players know who's in charge -- which given the coach's history of d-bag moves designed to make sure the players know who's in charge at all times isn't playing very well with the team. (Freeman still should have made it though.)

HTH

Player meetings usually start at 7 am. You seemed to be thinking this is a 9-5.

It's not. HTH

wdcrob has a well documented disdain for Schiano.

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Shaun King is on local radio right now. He mentioned something I hadn't heard before.

That team photo that Freeman missed? Schiano scheduled it for 6:30am on Labor Day. Dude is just such an ###.

What does that have to do with anything. These guys don't often get Christmas Day off, much less Labor Day

It has to do with a former NFL player pointing out that needlessly scheduling a photo for 6:30am is a d-bag move designed to make sure the players know who's in charge -- which given the coach's history of d-bag moves designed to make sure the players know who's in charge at all times isn't playing very well with the team. (Freeman still should have made it though.)

HTH

Player meetings usually start at 7 am. You seemed to be thinking this is a 9-5.

It's not. HTH

wdcrob has a well documented disdain for Schiano.

Makes sense. I don't like him either, but this is a dumb thing to complain about.

Bigger complaint is putting the best cover corner in the league in a zone and one of the best pass rushing DTs into numerous stunts.

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wdcrob has a well documented disdain for Schiano.

I do. There is zero doubt in my mind that I would detest working for him. And there's enough smoke that I think there's fire as far as just being a flat out ####### too.

Having said, I was also reporting what King said and implied. Which was that scheduling that for 6:30 was needlessly antogonizing.

Edited by wdcrob
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Obviously it's impossible to know what's true from outside the organization, but I've read similar stuff to this in the past as well...

I don't get it.

For months, we've been hearing talk from those around the Bucs organization, and some inside, who say there is friction between coach Greg Schiano and Freeman. The word is Schiano doesn't think Freeman has enough fire in the belly, that he isn't his type of quarterback.

"What does that even mean?" one NFC personnel director said. "What does he want from the guy?" Freeman is a gym rat. He loves the game. He is one of the first in the facility and one of the last to leave. That is something nobody in the organization can deny. The kid loves football.
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wdcrob has a well documented disdain for Schiano.

I do. There is zero doubt in my mind that I would detest working for him. And there's enough smoke that I think there's fire as far as just being a flat out ####### too.

Having said, I was also reporting what King said and implied. Which was that scheduling that for 6:30 was needlessly antogonizing.

I'm an unhappy Buc fan as well.

The players are frustrated. The fans are frustrated. The coaches and media are frustrated. When you lose two very winnable games that tends to happen. I'm not happy with Schiano's clock management or handling of Freeman. If he's such a disciplined coach why do the Bucs lead the league in penalties? There are tons of things do be upset about.

That being said, the defense is playing extremely well. When was the last time the Saints were held to under 20 points, one offensive TD, and Drew Brees got picked twice? I was impressed. They almost won both of those games singlehandedly.

There are some positive things happening here. Winning cures all.

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The players are frustrated. The fans are frustrated. The coaches and media are frustrated. When you lose two very winnable games that tends to happen. I'm not happy with Schiano's clock management or handling of Freeman. If he's such a disciplined coach why do the Bucs lead the league in penalties? There are tons of things do be upset about.

That being said, the defense is playing extremely well. When was the last time the Saints were held to under 20 points, one offensive TD, and Drew Brees got picked twice? I was impressed. They almost won both of those games singlehandedly.

There are some positive things happening here. Winning cures all.

Clock management is a huge problem, and maybe that's on both Schiano and Freeman. He's got a huge 25 second clock in front of him so I don't understand why he approaches the line with 5 seconds to snap and expects to read a defense effectively. Also, those silly illegal formation penalties should never be happening at the NFL level. Guys not lined up right, that's on Schiano as well. Team penalties, go ask Schiano why he's failed there. That's all on him. He's the one preaching discipline and accountability.

Defensively, the Bucs are one tough unit. The Patriots are in for a battle if they think they can roll with their B unit offensive starters, because this defense will get in Brady's ear and keep them in the game all day. This is a very winnable game, if the Bucs play to their potential.

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Getting Nicks back would also help a lot on the O Line. Really sucks that he hasn't been able to get healthy and that he might have to deal with a foot problem on a regular basis going forward.

The D is playing good enough to win games. The run game is playing good enough to win games. Penalties and the passing game are the problem.

In other words, it's Freeman + Schiano that are both under the microscope. Seems like the team isn't really rallying for either of them, so maybe they both need to go.

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Seems like the team isn't really rallying for either of them, so maybe they both need to go.

Yeah ... as much as I don't care for Schiano it's pretty interesting that none of Freeman's teammates have had his back in the press. Other than the player's only meeting after he lost his captaincy there hasn't been a peep of support for the guy that I can recall. Am I just missing it?

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Seems like the team isn't really rallying for either of them, so maybe they both need to go.

Yeah ... as much as I don't care for Schiano it's pretty interesting that none of Freeman's teammates have had his back in the press. Other than the player's only meeting after he lost his captaincy there hasn't been a peep of support for the guy that I can recall. Am I just missing it?

McCoy went to bat for him. Said he better not run into anybody bad mouthing his quarterback.

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on espn.com

Most critics of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have been willing to cite quarterback Josh Freeman as the major reason for that team's 0-2 start. Those same people also are missing the larger picture, one that should become clearer as this season plays out. Freeman isn't the biggest problem with the Bucs these days. That dubious honor belongs to head coach Greg Schiano.

It's definitely impossible to defend Freeman's early season struggles -- particularly his 45.3 completion percentage -- until you start realizing the Bucs should be 2-0. They blew a late-game lead to the New York Jets in Week 1 after a bonehead personal foul by linebacker Lavonte David gave the Jets an opportunity to kick the winning field goal. The Bucs led the Saints last week until New Orleans marched downfield in the final seconds for its own game-winning kick. On top of all that, Schiano has mishandled his relationship with Freeman for most of the last eight months.

First, Schiano waffled on Freeman as his starter after the Bucs finished last season with a 7-9 record. Then Schiano suggested in May that rookie quarterback Mike Glennon, the team's third-round pick in this year's draft, could compete for the job. Every now and then Schiano would find a way to say enough positive things to intimate that Freeman was still his guy, but anybody could read between the lines. Schiano has never really convinced the masses that Freeman is his long-term answer at quarterback.

It's perfectly acceptable for Schiano to feel that way. The problem is that he's sent too many mixed messages to a young quarterback still in need of a supportive environment. One league source said Freeman's people were so miffed by Schiano's ambivalence earlier this offseason that they even floated the idea of a trade to Kansas City, Freeman's hometown, before the Chiefs dealt for Alex Smith. The Bucs shot down that possibility -- claiming that Freeman wasn't going to be traded -- but that was only the start of what already has been a long year.

Freeman and Schiano have the kind of problems that even Dr. Phil couldn't fix. CBSSports.com reported that Freeman is likely to ask for a trade before this year's Oct. 29 trade deadline. Freeman also was stripped of his captaincy in a vote by teammates that some have suggested Schiano rigged. Freeman also didn't help matters by going all passive-aggressive and missing the team photo recently. At the very least, especially with Freeman in the final year of his contract, it's hard to see these two men co-existing in 2014.

It's not that Schiano doesn't have a right to be frustrated with Freeman on the field. The numbers alone -- Freeman has thrown four touchdown passes and 11 interceptions in his last five starts -- reveal a quarterback who has struggled to find his mojo ever since this team imploded under former head coach Raheem Morris in 2011. What Schiano has to realize, however, is that Freeman still has plenty to offer an NFL franchise. He's still the same quarterback who looked like a future star in 2010, when he threw 25 touchdown passes and six interceptions in his second season.

A good head coach would figure out how Freeman blossomed that year and find ways to replicate that success. A stubborn coach would do what Schiano has been doing for most of his first two years in Tampa. Play mind games. Push the notion that competition brings out the best in players at all positions. Act as if he can use the same disciplinary tactics that worked on college kids at Rutgers and achieve similar success with grown men.

If Schiano took a good look around the NFL, he would find a changing landscape in regard to young quarterbacks. The teams having the most success are finding ways to play to their quarterbacks' strengths. They build up their confidence by creating a user-friendly environment. They find success with young players because a little thing like trust goes a long way.

The teams that struggle with their young quarterbacks are just as easy to spot. The New York Jets failed to put decent weapons around Mark Sanchez (and then added Tim Tebow to the mix for a circus atmosphere). The Jacksonville Jaguars have done the same with Blaine Gabbert, while giving him three head coaches in three years. The San Francisco 49ers had Smith all screwed up for five years until Jim Harbaugh became his head coach in 2011. Now Smith is leading a revitalized Kansas City Chiefs team that is thankful for his leadership and efficiency.

The point here is that all young quarterbacks go through growing pains and having a wishy-washy coach with a grating personality doesn't help. In fact, Freeman's situation in Tampa feels very much like what happened with Smith in San Francisco pre-Harbaugh. The wrong coaches couldn't figure out how to make the most of Smith's talents, and he became an easy scapegoat for everything that was wrong with the 49ers. Freeman clearly is taking the blame for much of what ails the Bucs, and it says here that it's not fair.

Whatever people think about Freeman, Schiano's connection with the team is very much in question. They make too many mistakes at the worst possible times -- which speaks to coaching -- and it's hard to see his rigid style playing long-term in that locker room. There's no doubt that Morris was too nice of a guy to handle the Bucs when they hired him as head coach at the tender age of 32. But it's now debatable whether Schiano is too much of a shift in the opposite direction.

We'll surely know more about that question as this season plays out. We're also likely to see even more problems between Freeman and Schiano emerge in the coming weeks. The sad part in this is that some will be too quick to see Freeman as the issue. They shouldn't forget that other people in the Bucs organization are failing in ways that are far more disturbing.

Edited by Tool
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Rotoworld:

Bucs coach Greg Schiano endorsed Josh Freeman as his starting quarterback Monday.

Freeman is completing a Tebow-esque 45.7 percent of his passes this season, but the Bucs aren't yet ready to throw rookie Mike Glennon into the fire. Freeman has posted a 2:4 TD:turnover ratio, and owns a pathetic 59.3 QB rating. Rattled and regressing, Freeman likely doesn't have much longer under center in Tampa.
Related: Mike Glennon
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Trainwreck situation. Coach botched it with how he handled Freeman. GM botched it not giving Freeman enough weapons. Freeman botched it with his bad play and attitude and possible addiction issues. Lots of blame to go around.

"Not enough weapons".

Really?

They spent a fortune to bring in Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks, spent a 1st round pick on Doug Martin, spent a 4th on the high risk, high reward Mike Williams, and then paid him to keep him. They wasted a 2nd rounder on the Arrelious Benn experiment as well.

Josh Freeman's problem has nothing to do with the weapons he's been supplied. He's not Cam Newton for Christs sake, the Bucs have poured resources (both in draft picks and FA dollars) into that offense for him.

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Trainwreck situation. Coach botched it with how he handled Freeman. GM botched it not giving Freeman enough weapons. Freeman botched it with his bad play and attitude and possible addiction issues. Lots of blame to go around.

"Not enough weapons".

Really?

They spent a fortune to bring in Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks, spent a 1st round pick on Doug Martin, spent a 4th on the high risk, high reward Mike Williams, and then paid him to keep him. They wasted a 2nd rounder on the Arrelious Benn experiment as well.

Josh Freeman's problem has nothing to do with the weapons he's been supplied. He's not Cam Newton for Christs sake, the Bucs have poured resources (both in draft picks and FA dollars) into that offense for him.

Nicks doesn't catch the football. In today's NFL you need 3-4 passing options. The Bucs have nothing at TE or WR3, 4.

Yes, if Benn had worked out, it would've been a different story.

He has enough weapons to be more successful than he's been, but the Bucs lack any legitimate targets in the TE/slot receiver area of the field where so many teams do so much damage a la Welker et al

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Rotoworld:

Coach Greg Schiano claimed he never considered benching Josh Freeman during Sunday's ugly loss at New England.

With about eight minutes left in the 23-3 loss, backup Mike Glennon took a couple steps toward the field. But Schiano didn't pull the trigger on a switch -- yet. Through three games, the Bucs are 0-3 while Freeman has gone 43-of-94 (45.7 percent) for 571 yards with two touchdowns and three interceptions. His 59.3 passer rating ranks 33rd in the league. Freeman, in the final year of his contract, can't keep the gig too much longer without improved play.
Related: Mike Glennon
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Look, they have 2 great WRs and a great RB. And that is IT. That's my point. They don't have that move-the-chains TE and slot receiver lunch pail type guys. The Welker clones of the world. Both WRs prefer to run deeper routes, though both are capable of running more intermediate routes for sure.

Should Freeman perform better as is? Yes. Does the Bucs offensive arsenal have enough depth? No.

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Trainwreck situation. Coach botched it with how he handled Freeman. GM botched it not giving Freeman enough weapons. Freeman botched it with his bad play and attitude and possible addiction issues. Lots of blame to go around.

"Not enough weapons".Really?

They spent a fortune to bring in Vincent Jackson and Carl Nicks, spent a 1st round pick on Doug Martin, spent a 4th on the high risk, high reward Mike Williams, and then paid him to keep him. They wasted a 2nd rounder on the Arrelious Benn experiment as well.

Josh Freeman's problem has nothing to do with the weapons he's been supplied. He's not Cam Newton for Christs sake, the Bucs have poured resources (both in draft picks and FA dollars) into that offense for him.

Nicks doesn't catch the football. In today's NFL you need 3-4 passing options. The Bucs have nothing at TE or WR3, 4.

Yes, if Benn had worked out, it would've been a different story.

He has enough weapons to be more successful than he's been, but the Bucs lack any legitimate targets in the TE/slot receiver area of the field where so many teams do so much damage a la Welker et al

Oh, come on.

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In hindsight, yeah, shouldn't have paid Nicks who has bum feet and will be in and out of the lineup going forward. Plus, I'm not talking about trading for WELKER, just an average clone. If you add a TY Hilton in the slot and even a Scott Chandler at TE, it would open things up a lot more for this offense imo.

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I agree that outside of Williams & V-Jax the team has no other passing options. When V-Jax went out last week the pathetic O really had no hope. That being said, V-Jax has had several big drops this season. 2 last week vs NE.

They should have used the 3rd round pick on a TE or WR, and if it didn't work out this year for Freeman, then get a 1st round QB in 2014. There were plenty of options at TE in free agency and all they did was go Crabtree, who is hurt. Dominick must not want to give up on his guy Stocker.

I know the Bucs pretty well & when I saw the names Paige & Wright getting targets even I was like WTF are these guys?

Dominick needs to be the first to go. I have been saying he is a terrible GM since he resigned Michael Clayton. Freeman isn't the only problem, but he isn't the answer either. It's time to part ways. However, I am afraid Glennon won't be much better either... Maybe we should just tank the next few seasons and draft Jameis Winston :excited:

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Schiano needs to go before Dominik. What's he need a 31 flavor coaching staff for? Seriously you need that many coaches to micromanage? I'm surprised Sullivan put in for the Tampa job knowing Schiano's style. He was a prime head coaching candidate or a the very least could pick and choose what offensive coordinator gig he wanted. Now, he has to dust himself off the scrap heap for his next job. The mess that Schiano has on his hands is untenable. He needs to go. Lose this week and go into the bye with an interim HC. Glazers need to make it happen. And get rid of all those assistant coaches. Let the few who remain to do their job with no one looking over their shoulder.

For continuity, keep Dominik till the end of the year and ride this season out. Once it's apparent that Freeman is for sure not the guy they think is going to lead them to the promised land, they need to bench him and ride out the season with Glennon. Even if Glennon is clearly not better. You have to move on. Take note because I speak from experience of being a Raiders fan. The minute that the Raiders were eliminated from the playoffs last year, they should have moved on to Terrelle Pryor. He'd be much more ahead of the curve today, but was kept on the bench until the final game of the season. Glennon may or may not be the answer, but it's foolish to waste precious game time dedicated to a lame duck QB that you won't have next year. Either commit to Freeman or kick him to the curb. But do it sooner than later. Trust me, you'll be better off ripping the scab off the wound.

Edited by Raiderfan32904
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Someone did a good job of breaking down individual Mark Dominick moves on this site, http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=501329

Sure the guy has hit on some picks like Mike Williams, Lavonte David, and Doug Martin, but he has missed on many more. He hasn't done great with free agent signings either. I think he is just a Glazier yes man. He also isn't great at evaluating coaching talent. Remember the assistant coordinator disaster in 2010? Then he pretty much hires every coach off the street to help the inexperienced Shiano, yet he is still the entire problem... The bottom line is he is like 20-40 or something. That is pretty bad.

Another big move people overlook about Dominick is him trading away Aquib for a late 5th rounder when we could have made the playoffs with him at the end f the season last year. He knew Wright was going to be suspended yet he still decided to mail in the season by week 7.

Hell, the offense was good last season, and now they are the problem. I don't think you can leave Sullivan out of the blame here either. The offense has been pathetic this season, and he is the OC. Just because he interviewed for HC jobs doesn't make him the next guru. If he was so great he would of got one of the jobs he interviewed for.

Schiano has a defensive background, and the D has been looking much better than last season. Maybe getting Crabtree back could give the O an kick in the butt. Some people seem to be excited about Demps. Maybe he can add the spark the team needs.

I'm not sticking up for Schiano, but I think you have to let the season ride out for the guy. Or at least until he blows up another victory formation.

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