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Lamar Miller, 2016, Infinity and beyond (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evil G
- Start date
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Is he going to get hurt? Lose his job? Are you a Dolphin homer and know something we don't?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Cleveland, Indy, Atl, N.O. and B-More right out of the box could have him at RB1 after 5 weeks.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I'm somewhat new to this thread but does anyone think he has an Arian Foster kind of feel to him heading into this year?
in 2009 Foster had only 54 carries and entering 2010 he seemed pretty highly rated from what I can recall and there was similar concerns about Foster was well
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Other then the carries, I don't see much similarities. The teams are built a lot different, Foster was a late pick, Miller was a first or second round pick that fell due to injury, Foster got his chance because Tate got hurt. Miller is getting his because Bush left town.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Unless I missed the Dolphins adding the 2010 Houston o-line this offseason, and bringing in Kubiak and his stud RB producing ZBS, not even remotely close. Foster was stepping into a situation that made Dom Davis and Steve Slaton into RB1s -- he turned out to be really good, but a ton of RBs could have (and did) succeeded there. Miller is going to have to be tremendous to flourish in Miami IMO.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Link to NFL GMs discussing why they passed on Miller? Or calling him a 1st or 2nd round talent?
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
The 2009 Houston line was ranked 13th as a whole and 21st for run according to PFF. That doesnt sound incredible or anything to me. I dont know what the Miami 2013 line will look like though.
I'm not attempting to draw complete parallels or anything, I just found that odd that both almost had indentical carriees and value going from their first year to their first full year
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Bleacher Report January 22, 2012:
Grahamburn
Footballguy
WalterFootball:
kffl:
Seems like quite a few sites had him pegged late first, early second.
kffl:
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Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
The Bleacher Report? Seriously?
All of the armchair scouts had Jonathan Dwyer as a 1st / 2nd rounder too. No one could figure out why he fell either -- a few years later it turns out that he fell because he pretty much sucks.
The obvious reason is usually the right one -- Miller probably fell because teams didn't view him as a high round talent...
All of the armchair scouts had Jonathan Dwyer as a 1st / 2nd rounder too. No one could figure out why he fell either -- a few years later it turns out that he fell because he pretty much sucks.
The obvious reason is usually the right one -- Miller probably fell because teams didn't view him as a high round talent...
Touchdown There
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You asked for links. I provided three. Obviously you aren't going to get any NFL GM's commenting on Miller being a 1st/2nd round talent other than Ireland. Pretty much every scouting site out there had him late first or early second.Coeur de Lion said:
When the RB needy teams filled the position, he fell.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Half-assed online journalists < > NFL teams that invest million$, but of course YMMV.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
You called the guy out for saying he was a 1st/2nd round talent and asked for links. After doing a search just about every scouting report on the kid said he was a 1st/2nd round talent. Not really sure what else you were looking for? Mark Dominik isn't going to have any comments online regarding why he passed on Lamar Miller in favor of Doug Martin.
Not that it matters. He fell to the 4th round. Does that mean he can't play?
Winning IS Everything
Footballguy
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/lamar-miller?id=2533034
NFL.com Scouts had him listed as a late first round grade, as did others, but I am too lazy to look them up. Miller was also one of the highest rated High School backs his senior year after Trent Richardson and in a group with David Wilson, Christine Michael and Lacy. None of these are NFL GM's, but you will be hard pressed to find any saying that kind of stuff after they all passed on him.....
NFL.com Scouts had him listed as a late first round grade, as did others, but I am too lazy to look them up. Miller was also one of the highest rated High School backs his senior year after Trent Richardson and in a group with David Wilson, Christine Michael and Lacy. None of these are NFL GM's, but you will be hard pressed to find any saying that kind of stuff after they all passed on him.....
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
A 4th round pick has a much, much lower chance of succeeding than does a 1st round pick. This argument is pretty played out around here, but calling Miller a 1st round talent is patently absurd IMO. Tons of people put a ton of weight on what some part-time hacks project prior to the draft, while completely ignoring the actual fact that every NFL team, each of which is infinitely more knowledgable than even the big name ESPN style sports analysts, passed on Miller (or whoever) x number of times in the actual draft. Miller was a 4th rounder -- no one knows why -- and should be assessed as such, not as a 1st or 2nd round type talent.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
I just came across a video that highlighted all 51 of his runs last year. I came away a bit more impressed than I thought I would be, maybe because I was able to analyze his entire body of work in one shot.
Good vision, speed and quickness. Also, the fact that he has a positive (essentially the easiest) SOS taking 2012's numbers into account can't hurt. I'm warming up to him a bit more now, although I'd still take Murray and likely Wilson ahead of him.
Good vision, speed and quickness. Also, the fact that he has a positive (essentially the easiest) SOS taking 2012's numbers into account can't hurt. I'm warming up to him a bit more now, although I'd still take Murray and likely Wilson ahead of him.
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
He has really good patience tooI just came across a video that highlighted all 51 of his runs last year. I came away a bit more impressed than I thought I would be, maybe because I was able to analyze his entire body of work in one shot.
Good vision, speed and quickness. Also, the fact that he has a positive (essentially the easiest) SOS taking 2012's numbers into account can't hurt. I'm warming up to him a bit more now, although I'd still take Murray and likely Wilson ahead of him.
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MCguidance
Footballguy
I'm going to be honest, watching that tape I also come away impressed. I see a McCoy like player, but he needs to prove it to be anything close.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I wonder what FBG saw in Training Camp to justify saying Thomas will even be the GL or 3rd down guy on the latest TC update
Miller had 4 touches inside the 5 compared to Thomas' 0
Out of 9 touches in the redzone Miller had 5 and Thomas had 4
Miller looks much better as a reciever as well
And I hate having to feel like I need to mention this but I dont own either of them
Miller had 4 touches inside the 5 compared to Thomas' 0
Out of 9 touches in the redzone Miller had 5 and Thomas had 4
Miller looks much better as a reciever as well
And I hate having to feel like I need to mention this but I dont own either of them
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Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
And he he turns it on he blows by people
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I see a speed back with nice decisiveness but limited ability to break tackles. I definitely don't see the special lateral movement of a LeSean McCoy.
I have zero issue with Miller as a 5th round RB 2 / 3 -- the opportunity is there and he has intriguing big play potential as a runner, even if the offensive situation is rough. IMO he was being way overvalued prior to the Thomas BS when he was climbing into early round 3 , even 2. I do think he's overvalued in dynasty from what I've seen -- I'm not sold on him as a workhorse runner, or as a 3rd down guy, and see him as more of a between the 20s speed half of a RBBC as opposed to a true feature RB. And I also weigh situation more heavily than most (particularly for RBs), and have zero faith in Miami as long as Ireland is running the show.
I have zero issue with Miller as a 5th round RB 2 / 3 -- the opportunity is there and he has intriguing big play potential as a runner, even if the offensive situation is rough. IMO he was being way overvalued prior to the Thomas BS when he was climbing into early round 3 , even 2. I do think he's overvalued in dynasty from what I've seen -- I'm not sold on him as a workhorse runner, or as a 3rd down guy, and see him as more of a between the 20s speed half of a RBBC as opposed to a true feature RB. And I also weigh situation more heavily than most (particularly for RBs), and have zero faith in Miami as long as Ireland is running the show.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
Maybe limited ability to break tackles but he didn't seem bad at it and seemed to fall foward a lot. I think I also read that he had a fairly high break-tackle rate in those limited carries FWIWI personally don't look at situation regarding GM's and poorly run teams. You have a lot of fantasy stars on complete crap run organizations. That's shouldn't weigh so heavily IMHO
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I don't know what coure de lion is talking about but
a) miller was a tremendous talent coming out of college and it was a shoulder injury that made him fall in the draft but he was considered to be in the David Wilson/Doug Martin category by many, not just bleacher report. And why so down on bleacher report? I am a shark and I actually enjoy reading their stuff. W/respect to how scouts viewed miller coming out of college, BR was merely reporting the news not giving their opinion. If you need a link to support that then you just need to pay more attention and learn to use google. You'll be able to find it for yourself. Not trying to be rude but its so damn easy to find info these days with google that you can get the info for yourself more quickly than it would take for you to request that another poster on a MSG board do the work for you.
b. when I watch the tape of miller from 2012 I think he looked fantastic. Reading holes properly and bursting through them with top flight speed and power. Not going down on first contact. Good ball security. Very elusive in open space. Looks like an elite Rb prospect.
Perhaps a case can be made that miller' production might suffer this season BC miami's coaching, ownership, or offensive scheme sucks. Or perhaps that he won't be durable enough to handle a full workload.
But from a talent perspective, passes the eyeball test for me.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Thanks for defending me, but I could have had a link to a video showing any coach in the NFL saying they would take Miller in the second if not for his shoulder issue and he would have said it was photo shopped, just to make his point.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Pretty sure that anyone who would actually say "I am a shark" isn't -- HTH.
And I wasn't asking for links doofus -- I was making a point about armchair scouts vs the real thing and which information should be given priority.
And I wasn't asking for links doofus -- I was making a point about armchair scouts vs the real thing and which information should be given priority.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Uhhh... no. My point is that NFL teams viewed him as a 4th round player, and we have absolutely no idea why. But with millions of dollars and jobs at stake, no one wanted him for until three rounds had passed. And that that
information, along with the fact that he couldn't even beat out Daniel Thomas as the RB2 last year, tells us more about Lamar Miller as a player than any amount of non-NFL sources that were in love with him a year ago.
Chaka
Footballguy
It was a solid video but I can't help but notice that most of those carries were against the Raiders, Arizona, Indy, Jacksonville, Buffalo, Tennessee and the Jets. That's six bottom 10 run defenses and the Raiders. The two best run defenses he faced were New England and SF and he had 8 carries for 14 yards and 3 receptions for 30 yards.
Still it was nice to see him gain positive yardage on pretty much every touch.
Still it was nice to see him gain positive yardage on pretty much every touch.
So let me get this straight:
If you say you are a shark, that is the criteria for you not being a shark. So if you say you are a guppy, then you are a shark? Oh its all so confusing and you have truly hurt my feelings by proclaiming that I am not a shark. What shall I do now with my bruised and tattered ego?
Here is a direct quote from you not 20 posts up from here directly asking for another poster to post a link for you: "Link to NFL GMs discussing why they passed on Miller? Or calling him a 1st or 2nd round talent?" And you say you were not asking for links? I am confused. Perhaps english is not your first language then?
You also resort to name calling which is a big nono on these boards. Have some respect for your fellow posters. I did not call you any names, I simply stated my opinion on lamar miller, bleacher report, and the practice of asking other posters for links.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Oh you are that guy, I get it now. A rookie struggled his first year, with very few reps in practice so he must suck. Thanks for clearing it up.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
The Dolphins' first seven games are all against teams with a run defense that ranked 18th or worse in 2012.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Pretty sure I never said he sucks. In fact, I'm pretty sure that I said "he might be a great RB" a page or so back in this very thread. It's really amazing that so many people get their panties in a bunch when someone dares to say that a RB taken in the 4th round is likely a 4th round type talent, as opposed to an obvious 1st round talent that all 32 teams whiffed on for [insert reason here]. Carry on with the Kool Aid fest, there's obviously no rational discussion to be had here.
Marcus Lattimore was a first round talent that was taken in the 4th round this year bc of a bad injury...does that mean he is a 4th round talent?
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Yes, post-injury, Lattimore's chances of FF relevance should be assessed as a 4th round RB as opposed to where he might have gone had the injury not happened. The NFL is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more qualified to assess these guys than any number of Kool Aid gulping keyboard warriors.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
This situation is nothing like Arian Foster. Was Foster highly hyped by fantasy football "experts" but fell to the 4th rd by real talent evaluators in a RB heavy year? Did experts overreact and overvalue Foster 6 months before the start of the season with nothing to go on? What are the similarities here?
Rookie_Whisperer
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
He still gained positive yardage on every touch we saw, even if it was against the worst run Ds in the league.
Chaka
Footballguy
moleculo
Footballguy
well then, what the hell is the point of any of this? By this logic, every football player in the NFL's entire fate is sealed on draft day. No sense looking at anything beyond that - Arian Foster will never amount to anything because he's not a first round talent, right? After all, the NFL is waaaaaaaaaaay more qualified to do this.
Bigboy10182000
Footballguy
I'm thinking he ends up top 10 in PPR this year. The stars seems to be aligning for this kid and I think he can hit 1300-1500 yards if healthy.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Also, as I mentioned previously and someone else followed up with, I'm quite sure he has the best SOS based on 2012 statistics. It's rather probable he'll be facing a healthy amount of porous rush defenses again this year.
Nero
Footballguy
Until recently I did not own either because I thought Miller was overrated and overhyped even though I thought the job was his. I traded Miller and D. Moore for Givens and 1.2 shortly after the combine in the dynasty where I owned him. Only in the past week or so did I take a closer look and came away with the impression that Thomas was the better player. So I have acquired Thomas late in 2 redrafts. Just as a previous poster stated, I view Miller as a limited speed back. You want to get him his 10 touches and hope he breaks one. He doesn't have enough game to carry the load. Thomas is JAG, but he is better suited for every down duties and is the better receiver.
I think Miller is going to get his shot and fail. Thomas will be the lead in the end.
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