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Lamar Miller, 2016, Infinity and beyond (1 Viewer)

Why? How is DJ at 3 less aggressive?
Not sure what DJ has to do with anything but placing such value on a RB that hasnt done anything but average at best stats seems like a risky proposition.  The Fins let him walk for a reason.  Now I am not saying he is going to bust just that I think its nuts to A) have him ranked that high and B) wanting to trade up to get him when I think he will still be there for that poster. 

 
In PPR this situation couldn't be better.  He has the talent, he is great out of the backfield and he plays in a division with no good defenses.  

 
In PPR this situation couldn't be better.  He has the talent, he is great out of the backfield and he plays in a division with no good defenses.  
I agree....not sure what the negative is with him. You may not love his talent but he succeeded in a worse situation the last two years. He may be the top ten back with the least question marks at this point.

 
Not sure what DJ has to do with anything but placing such value on a RB that hasnt done anything but average at best stats seems like a risky proposition.  The Fins let him walk for a reason.  Now I am not saying he is going to bust just that I think its nuts to A) have him ranked that high and B) wanting to trade up to get him when I think he will still be there for that poster. 
I think Gurley, AP and DJ are the general consensus top 3 RBs. There are issues with almost every RB this year. My point with Miller or DJ or Bell or whoever we rank at 3rd, it has to be someone and that someone is going to come with some question marks. Miller's aggregate stats have never been that impressive (although good enough for 2 consecutive years as a top 10 RB), but he has been efficient and durable. He has all the skills people like in a RB and is on the team that has led the NFL in carries both of the last 2 seasons. 

 
I think Gurley, AP and DJ are the general consensus top 3 RBs. There are issues with almost every RB this year. My point with Miller or DJ or Bell or whoever we rank at 3rd, it has to be someone and that someone is going to come with some question marks. Miller's aggregate stats have never been that impressive (although good enough for 2 consecutive years as a top 10 RB), but he has been efficient and durable. He has all the skills people like in a RB and is on the team that has led the NFL in carries both of the last 2 seasons. 
I see where you guys are coming from about potential etc.  I just think the original poster is a little aggressive with his scenario.  Until I actually see a season where he actually performs like that ranking then I am going to back off and rank him accordingly.  Also the poster seems to be committing the cardinal sin of fantasy and that is falling in love with a player and doing crazy things (trading up, drafting him way too early, etc) to obtain him.  I am not down on Miller just think its a bit nuts to have him at #3 which would be around pick 5-6ish.  A lot of good proven wr's you would be leapfrogging.

 
6

9

781

1044 

0

25

4.6

The reason people are excited for Miller are based on seven numbers.

6 and 9 are where Miller has finished in the RB rankings the last 2 seasons.

781 is the number of RB touches Dolphins RBs have had the last 2 seasons 1044 is the number of RB touches for Houston the last two season. 

0 is the number of games Miller has missed the last three years

25 is his age

4.6 is his lifetime yards per carry

 
I like Miller as much as the next guy, but let's pump the brakes a tad. Sure, he is in a great situation. But he comes with question marks and is far from a sure thing. I agree that other backs have similar issues. Elliott . . . how does he adjust to the NFL? Bell . . . will he be suspended, how is his health, does Williams take some of the workload? Johnson . . . he was great for a month, but can he sustain it? Charles . . . can he come back from another ACL injury?

Miller has a career best of 216 carries and has had 20 carries in a game twice in 61 games. He was underutilized in Miami, but who knows how much of a workload he will have or if he can handle being a bell cow (if that is indeed the plan), Are the Texans going to try to make him the next Arian Foster and try to get him 300-350 carries? Miller should be able to produce at least what he did last year (roughly 1300/10 total), but it almost seems like he is getting drafted at his ceiling or at a workload that we have not seen him produce at yet. But in redraft leagues, that's the roll of the dice you are going to have to take if you want him, as he won't fall to a point that isn't risky.

 
I see where you guys are coming from about potential etc.  I just think the original poster is a little aggressive with his scenario.  Until I actually see a season where he actually performs like that ranking then I am going to back off and rank him accordingly.  Also the poster seems to be committing the cardinal sin of fantasy and that is falling in love with a player and doing crazy things (trading up, drafting him way too early, etc) to obtain him.  I am not down on Miller just think its a bit nuts to have him at #3 which would be around pick 5-6ish.  A lot of good proven wr's you would be leapfrogging.
I am a WR early guy, but Miller and DJ are the two guys that give me pause in the first. DJ because he has the largest ceiling in fantasy. Lamar Miller's ceiling probably isn't quite as high, but his floor starts at the top 10. 

 
I like Miller as much as the next guy, but let's pump the brakes a tad. Sure, he is in a great situation. But he comes with question marks and is far from a sure thing. I agree that other backs have similar issues. Elliott . . . how does he adjust to the NFL? Bell . . . will he be suspended, how is his health, does Williams take some of the workload? Johnson . . . he was great for a month, but can he sustain it? Charles . . . can he come back from another ACL injury?

Miller has a career best of 216 carries and has had 20 carries in a game twice in 61 games. He was underutilized in Miami, but who knows how much of a workload he will have or if he can handle being a bell cow (if that is indeed the plan), Are the Texans going to try to make him the next Arian Foster and try to get him 300-350 carries? Miller should be able to produce at least what he did last year (roughly 1300/10 total), but it almost seems like he is getting drafted at his ceiling or at a workload that we have not seen him produce at yet. But in redraft leagues, that's the roll of the dice you are going to have to take if you want him, as he won't fall to a point that isn't risky.
I would be willing to bet they have learned their lesson.

Good post though.  All I am simply saying is that its super aggressive to target him as the 3rd RB, which would be middle first in a 12 teamer, when there would be a lot of players you are passing on with hopes that Miller crushes it.  Again I am not saying he is going to bust but would he really be worth that pick all things considered especially given the raw attrition rates of running backs.

 
easy cowboy
He's been top 10 last 2 years and his volume is only going to increase. The only concern is Houston's abysmal yards per carry last year. Was that because they are a bad offensive line or is it because they had bad RB play? It's very likely his efficiency dips, but the volume should make up for it. IMO he is one of the safest RB bets in the draft. 

 
Over the last two seasons only two RBs and 4 WR's have scored more fantasy points total.  Part of the reason is that Miller has not missed a single game.  The other reason is that he is extremely efficient with his touches.  Houston and O'Brien have a history of leaning on one back when they have a good one.  It's not like Miami has had this stellar QB the last two seasons taking pressure off Miller or that there O-line was great or that their defense was so stellar that they could run all the time.

I don't see the down side of drafting Miller high.  If he still gets low usage as per usual and stays healthy per usual he should still be a top 10 back.  If he gets more workload and isn't as efficient then he is still a top 10 back on volume.  If he gets more workload and is efficient you have a Foster clone and worth every penny of a first round pick.

just my thoughts.

 
I'm actually considering him at 1.05 in my main redraft. Over Gurley and ADP. Not sure I like that kind of investment in Elliott.

If DJ is there I'll take him. But I like Miller over Hopkins or Green.

Full PPR

1-3-2-1-1

 
Since I am not well versed in the Fins front office, why did they let him leave?  Serious question
Honestly I'm not sure they had a real plan. They tried to replace him with CJ Anderson (for even more money than Miller got I believe - I may be wrong about that though) and have now replaced him with a (presumably) washed up Arian Foster.

I'm a Jets fan - Tannenbaum is a real nice guy and was a smart cap specialist, when that was his only role, but was a pretty terrible GM - likes splashy moves.

 
He's been top 10 last 2 years and his volume is only going to increase. The only concern is Houston's abysmal yards per carry last year. Was that because they are a bad offensive line or is it because they had bad RB play? It's very likely his efficiency dips, but the volume should make up for it. IMO he is one of the safest RB bets in the draft. 


Remember, the Dolphins line hasn't been all that good the last few years.

 
Not sure what DJ has to do with anything but placing such value on a RB that hasnt done anything but average at best stats seems like a risky proposition.  The Fins let him walk for a reason.  Now I am not saying he is going to bust just that I think its nuts to A) have him ranked that high and B) wanting to trade up to get him when I think he will still be there for that poster. 
I am a die hard idiot Dolphins fan.  The reason they let him walk is because they are in the bottom five in the NFL in talent evaluation...seemingly regardless of who they have calling the shots.  Dont read too much into the Fins letting him go when evaluating his future.  Even Bill Parcells' brain turned to mush as soon as he started wearing polo shirts with fish under the left lapel.  

Miller was completely misused and thoroughly underutilized by every moronic coaching staff that Miami had in place since he was drafted.  As a fan and dynasty owner, it couldnt have been more frustrating to witness.  Rumors swirled that he had a tough time adjusting to the pro game and learning the playbook in his rookie year, so it is possible that he is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but his talent is clear and undeniable if you look at his film.  Behind some atrocious OLs, in bad offenses with bad HC and OCs, he still averaged in the neighborhood of 5 YPC, and was effective in the passing game.  He really pops off the screen on some plays where he looks like he is the only player running on a dry track and everyone else is in mud.  The 97 yard run vs the Jets in 2014, and the first half against Houston last year come to mind right away.  You see some of those plays and wonder what the heck these coaches were thinking sprinkling in Daniel Thomas and Damien Williams, and giving a healthy Miller who just dominated a first half just 3 second half carries on a regular basis.  Seriously mind blowing stuff from those coaching staffs.  

On top of that, Miami was in the game and I believe did make him a pretty decent offer, but were not willing to match what Houston put on the table.  Time will certainly tell which franchise was the smart one, but if history is any indication, Miami will not come out clean on this one.

 
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I would be willing to bet they have learned their lesson.

Good post though.  All I am simply saying is that its super aggressive to target him as the 3rd RB, which would be middle first in a 12 teamer, when there would be a lot of players you are passing on with hopes that Miller crushes it.  Again I am not saying he is going to bust but would he really be worth that pick all things considered especially given the raw attrition rates of running backs.
In no particular order: Gurley, DJ, AP, Bell (if he wins the appeal).

And then...?

 
so at my pick in my upcoming draft i will have the choice of either Julio Jones or L.Miller...i was going to take JJ but you guys have me rethinking that lol

 
im waiting for people to talk me down lol
If you're in a PPR I think you would have to go with Julio but if your league is TD heavy I think you have to go with Lamar.  Julio does not have a great shot at double digit TDs in a Kyle Shanahan offense.  It's weird because he feeds the heck out of his #1 WR all up and down the field but it doesn't translate into them getting into the end zone.

 
If you're in a PPR I think you would have to go with Julio but if your league is TD heavy I think you have to go with Lamar.  Julio does not have a great shot at double digit TDs in a Kyle Shanahan offense.  It's weird because he feeds the heck out of his #1 WR all up and down the field but it doesn't translate into them getting into the end zone.
We all hope Lamar will have a good year.  We know Julio will have a good year every year like all his other years.  Plenty of depth at rb in middle rounds this year,  even in the second and third rounds.  I have such difficulty taking rbs early now with all of the rb flops in the first round over the last few years.  You just never know with those guys.  Go with the sure thing,  Busted 

 
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We all hope Lamar will have a good year.  We know Julio will have a good year every year like all his other years.  Plenty of depth at rb in middle rounds this year,  even in the second and third rounds.  I have such difficulty taking rbs early now with all of the rb flops in the first round over the last few years.  You just never know with those guys.  Go with the sure thing,  Busted 
i have Doug Martin set as my 5th rd pick and Allen Robinson as my 6th ...so i have 4 rds to build around them ...thanks for the input :)

 
If you're in a PPR I think you would have to go with Julio but if your league is TD heavy I think you have to go with Lamar.  Julio does not have a great shot at double digit TDs in a Kyle Shanahan offense.  It's weird because he feeds the heck out of his #1 WR all up and down the field but it doesn't translate into them getting into the end zone.
Had Julio last year - this is 100% true.

 
We all hope Lamar will have a good year.  We know Julio will have a good year every year like all his other years.  Plenty of depth at rb in middle rounds this year,  even in the second and third rounds.  I have such difficulty taking rbs early now with all of the rb flops in the first round over the last few years.  You just never know with those guys.  Go with the sure thing,  Busted 
I totally agree but I think the qualifier of being in a PPR is very important with Julio.  He's top 5 in that format.  If you are in a standard league Julio is top 10 and considering he will be the 2nd or 3rd WR selected that seems like a meh ROI.  He also seem more likely to break down than some of the other top WRs (closer to Dez than Antonio in that regard).

 
watched it all.  what I saw was "good" not "great".  he's being promoted as "great". 
Those that are promoting him as great may see him differently than you.  Certainly entitled to your opinion, of course.

As pointed out just below your post, however, is that his usage should go up.  Many proponents of his would argue that his upside has been limited due to the incredibly poor and low usage in Miami.  The good thing about him is that, even if he doesn't look "great" to you, his fantasy points per touch put him near the top of the league.  If he's able to maintain that same efficiency, which he has for the last 2 years on a lesser Miami team, then that might explain why he's being promoted as "great".

He's averaged almost 1 fantasy point per touch.  If his touches bump up from 240 last year to 300+ this year (250 carries and 50 receptions), then you can see his upside.  Considering what's been said about him and the complete lack of a clear #2 RB behind plus the fact that he has the skillset to be a 3 down and goal line back, then 300+ touches for him in Houston isn't a stretch.

Here is a listing of some of the top backs last year and their fantasy scoring per touch.  Of note, a guy like Woodhead will never get enough volume despite his crazy efficiency.  Some guys don't need good efficiency just because of the sheer volume they get.  Either way, Miller's numbers in almost every metric are at least above average.  And if he hits 300 touches, then unless he turns into Trent Richardson overnight, then he's a lock for top 5 production.  This is why Miller has both a very safe floor AND high upside for this year barring injury.

David Johnson -- 161 touches for 212 pts    1.32
Woodhead -- 188 touches for 244 pts   1.3
Deangelo Williams -- 240 touches for 235 pts   .98
Miller -- 241 touches for 234 pts    .97
Freeman -- 338 touches for 320 pts    .95
Forte -- 262 touches for 216 pts    .82
Gurley -- 250 touches for 210 pts   .84
Martin -- 321 touches for 242 pts   .75
AP -- 357 touches for 266 pts   .74

 
Interesting discussion. A few things though. First, take Julio over Miller. To take Miller over Julio means that you're comparing almost Millers highest possible outcome vs basically Julios average. Or that you're assuming that a WR is going to get hurt but the RB who is blow his career high attempts out of the water won't get hurt. 

Next, AP and Gurley should go ahead of Miller and every other RB. These are the first two backs not because their ceiling but because of their floor. After those two, everything is up for debate. Miller, DJ, Zeke, Bell, Freeman, Charles, McCoy or Martin I think I could make an decent argument for the 3rd RB. 

 
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Those that are promoting him as great may see him differently than you.  Certainly entitled to your opinion, of course.

As pointed out just below your post, however, is that his usage should go up.  Many proponents of his would argue that his upside has been limited due to the incredibly poor and low usage in Miami.  The good thing about him is that, even if he doesn't look "great" to you, his fantasy points per touch put him near the top of the league.  If he's able to maintain that same efficiency, which he has for the last 2 years on a lesser Miami team, then that might explain why he's being promoted as "great".

He's averaged almost 1 fantasy point per touch.  If his touches bump up from 240 last year to 300+ this year (250 carries and 50 receptions), then you can see his upside.  Considering what's been said about him and the complete lack of a clear #2 RB behind plus the fact that he has the skillset to be a 3 down and goal line back, then 300+ touches for him in Houston isn't a stretch.

Here is a listing of some of the top backs last year and their fantasy scoring per touch.  Of note, a guy like Woodhead will never get enough volume despite his crazy efficiency.  Some guys don't need good efficiency just because of the sheer volume they get.  Either way, Miller's numbers in almost every metric are at least above average.  And if he hits 300 touches, then unless he turns into Trent Richardson overnight, then he's a lock for top 5 production.  This is why Miller has both a very safe floor AND high upside for this year barring injury.

David Johnson -- 161 touches for 212 pts    1.32
Woodhead -- 188 touches for 244 pts   1.3
Deangelo Williams -- 240 touches for 235 pts   .98
Miller -- 241 touches for 234 pts    .97
Freeman -- 338 touches for 320 pts    .95
Forte -- 262 touches for 216 pts    .82
Gurley -- 250 touches for 210 pts   .84
Martin -- 321 touches for 242 pts   .75
AP -- 357 touches for 266 pts   .74
Excellent post.  David Johnson and Miller are 1A and 1B on my RB redraft board (PPR).

 
I just used my keeper on Miller, #20 pick overall in a 14-team league.  I have others I could have gone with that potentially provided more "value" on the face but I doubt Miller would have been there for me at #20 this year and having him in the 2nd round brings my strategy in the early half of my draft into focus.  

 
I just used my keeper on Miller, #20 pick overall in a 14-team league.  I have others I could have gone with that potentially provided more "value" on the face but I doubt Miller would have been there for me at #20 this year and having him in the 2nd round brings my strategy in the early half of my draft into focus.  
I'm in a 14 team league too, where any position can be in the flex- my first pick is 14 OVR, and I am trying to trade up in the draft to make sure that I get him

 
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I'm in a 14 team league too, where any position can be in the flex- my first pick is 14 OVR, and I am trying to trade up in the draft to make sure that I get him
Thats the cardinal sin in fantasy brother.  Its absolutely imperative you dont get fixated on one player and start doing crazy things like trading up into just the first round.  Have a plan and let the draft come to you.

 
pantherclub said:
Thats the cardinal sin in fantasy brother.  Its absolutely imperative you dont get fixated on one player and start doing crazy things like trading up into just the first round.  Have a plan and let the draft come to you.
I know man, I think I am going to stay put, but I will have heartburn on draft day... not from any buffalo wings too.

 
I have been singing this kid's praises since he was drafted......he will finally be showcased properly. Even though Dolphins misused him....he was still able to be a heck of a PPR back the past 2 seasons. 

Houston will be the career year landing spot. Really excited for Lamar this season.

 
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Seems like K.Hilliard has been the 2nd back in the first two preseason games.  Everyone else banged up?
Alfred Blue just today began practicing after a shoulder surgery. Feels like a lot of people assume he still has the backup job but I think it's open for the taking between him, Hilliard and Ervin.

 

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