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Lamar Miller, 2016, Infinity and beyond


Evil G

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I play mostly keeper leagues. My main league is 12 team, 6 keepers. 26 of those 72 protected players are RB's. I'm drafting on Saturday afternoon, prior to Millers next game. From where I'm sitting, Miller looks like real good value right now as a top pick in our draft. He may not get to my 7th o/a pick. I project/mock/expect (whatever you want to call it) 4 or 5 RB's to go in the 6 picks prior to mine. If Miller is sitting there for me at my pick, I'm grabbing him as my RB3, pronto.

I'm in the same type of league. I've been discussing trading my 2nd round pick for Miller since his owner won't be keeping him. Now I'm starting to reconsider...

Lamar Miller - RB - Dolphins

Dolphins OC Mike Sherman calls the team's running back competition "neck and neck" between Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas.

The Dolphins are actually serious about this. Per reporter Adam Beasley, both Miller and Thomas would see "plenty of snaps" were the season to start today. Thomas hasn't put anything good on film through two NFL seasons, but Miller hasn't helped his cause by gaining just 37 yards on nine preseason carries. How he fares in Saturday's regular season dress rehearsal against the Bucs could be crucial. We'd still be stunned if Miller got thrown into a timeshare with "Fumbling Dan."

So the first line says "the Dolphins are actually serious about this", then the last line they say they'll still be stunned.

I don't get it. How many yards should he have with all of nine carries? That makes no sense.

Rotoworld is rather bogus as they love to slip a bit of bias into all of their player updates. I also don't understand why they're constantly referring to a players YPC in the preason when the sample sizes are so tiny, it's nonsensical..but I digress..

I know it was just preseason, but DT looked a lot quicker than I remember him being in his first two years. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see this turn into a RBBC, if only because of Miller and DTs complimentary skill sets.

Yeah, it wouldn't be the first time a RB turned the corner in his third year. Just look at Spiller last year...

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Only the start of the season will tell...as a dynasty owner of miller I am anxiously awaiting that and holding my breath. I am concerned that he hasn't yet blown Daniel thomas out of the water in this competition. It's making me wonder whether miller really is the goods like I have thought since they drafted him.

Since we know that thomas is a middling talent, If miller is that talented how come he hasn't blown this wide open yet?

He has gotten 9...count them...9 carries.

There is a reason for that.

This weekend he should see extensive action in the first half. And I expect him to show why he will be this teams starter. Time will tell and all this talk may help him drop in my redraft next week. If you (speaking in general not to you in particular) never saw Lamar Miller play at the U.....then move on...you have no idea what kind of special talent this kid has. When he get's past the line of scrimmage.....he is a threat to take it to the house....every time. He is a classic one cut runner and gone. Think of Clinton Portis in his rookie and 2nd year at Denver. He is that kind of runner.

Daniel Thomas looked good last week......first time he ever has. He was running for a roster spot. It looks like Jonas Gray is not going to make this team...which is a shame because he can be a far better short yardage specialist than Thomas. DT is not a good short yardage runner at all. But they will only carry 4 RB's and a FB. Miller, Thomas, Thigpen,kid from Florida (who has not looked that impressive at all...but was a draft choice this year).

Anyway......I have zero concerns about Lamar Miller. I know what he can do......and I fully expect this kid to blossom this year. In his limited action last year......he was very good.

Keep in mind as a rookie he came off Shoulder surgery, and did not have a full NFL off season and pre-season. He had to learn how to recognize pass protect assignments in a west coast offense after coming from The U in a Pro Set Offense.

Fast forward to 2013, he had a full off-season to workout, and he was 100% all off-season and in the pre-season. He is set to have a great year despite his 9 carries in 3 pre-season games......9 carries.

Not because he is losing a RB battle. Because the coaches know exactly what he can do...and what he will do when they let their thoroughbred loose.

Daniel Thomas....had to show this coaching staff he can play....he had to earn his roster spot. And so far he has earned it. He is playing for his spot. Miller is not. Thomas is not a starting caliber difference maker RB....Miller is.

Can't wait for the regular season already. Then we will see how things really go. And hey....if Miller flounders.....I will be the first on here to eat crow.

Edited by Todem
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Only the start of the season will tell...as a dynasty owner of miller I am anxiously awaiting that and holding my breath. I am concerned that he hasn't yet blown Daniel thomas out of the water in this competition. It's making me wonder whether miller really is the goods like I have thought since they drafted him.

Since we know that thomas is a middling talent, If miller is that talented how come he hasn't blown this wide open yet?

He has gotten 9...count them...9 carries.

There is a reason for that.

This weekend he should see extensive action in the first half. And I expect him to show why he will be this teams starter. Time will tell and all this talk may help him drop in my redraft next week. If you (speaking in general not to you in particular) never saw Lamar Miller play at the U.....then move on...you have no idea what kind of special talent this kid has. When he get's past the line of scrimmage.....he is a threat to take it to the house....every time. He is a classic one cut runner and gone. Think of Clinton Portis in his rookie and 2nd year at Denver. He is that kind of runner.

Daniel Thomas looked good last week......first time he ever has. He was running for a roster spot. It looks like Jonas Gray is not going to make this team...which is a shame because he can be a far better short yardage specialist than Thomas. DT is not a good short yardage runner at all. But they will only carry 4 RB's and a FB. Miller, Thomas, Thigpen,kid from Florida (who has not looked that impressive at all...but was a draft choice this year).

Anyway......I have zero concerns about Lamar Miller. I know what he can do......and I fully expect this kid to blossom this year. In his limited action last year......he was very good.

Keep in mind as a rookie he came off Shoulder surgery, and did not have a full NFL off season and pre-season. He had to learn how to recognize pass protect assignments in a west coast offense after coming from The U in a Pro Set Offense.

Fast forward to 2013, he had a full off-season to workout, and he was 100% all off-season and in the pre-season. He is set to have a great year despite his 9 carries in 3 pre-season games......9 carries.

Not because he is losing a RB battle. Because the coaches know exactly what he can do...and what he will do when they let their thoroughbred loose.

Daniel Thomas....had to show this coaching staff he can play....he had to earn his roster spot. And so far he has earned it. He is playing for his spot. Miller is not. Thomas is not a starting caliber difference maker RB....Miller is.

Can't wait for the regular season already. Then we will see how things really go. And hey....if Miller flounders.....I will be the first on here to eat crow.

Good post.

The pro Thomas crowd is being blinded by one good game this week and overlooking his 3.0 ypc combined his other two preseason games and the two years of crap film he has in his career up until this point. If he earns a split role I don't have any faith in him staying healthy anyway, I'm not buying on him.

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Daniel Thomas......for the first time since becoming a Dolphin....looked good tonight.

Lamar Miller had a nice agile/quick 4 yard TD jaunt. But got very little blocking on his limited chances tonight.

On a screen play on their first possession.....Pouncy missed the lead block...I mean whiffed. Otherwise....Miller was off to the races for at least 25-30 yards...maybe more.

DT knows he has to show something tonight. You can see it. Glad he had a good game....we are going to need him as RB is a position that suffers the most dings and injuries. Miller in pass protect did great.....so he can have upside as a 3 down back.

Once the real season gets going I would expect Miller to be this teams starter. The fight behind him is between Thomas and Gray. And Gilupsse must show,something tonight and next week.

We lost Keller tonight for the season.

I guess you missed his first two NFL games prior to getting hurt. Hasn't been given a true chance since then. Those are the facts. I love the excuses. Both guys will see carry's. all you Lamar Miller hard-on owners (maybe not you since you are a Dolfan as well) just can't stand it! Lol. Go Fins!

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just me reading the tea leaves, but at this point heading in to the season, it looks like a 50-50 time share (to me at least). It will take an injury to thomas or just ridiculous production from miller to shift it in miller's favor. i don't see how you can argue against this, even in limited pre-season work miller hasn't shown enough to distance himself... i hope it happens when the real games start

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Only the start of the season will tell...as a dynasty owner of miller I am anxiously awaiting that and holding my breath. I am concerned that he hasn't yet blown Daniel thomas out of the water in this competition. It's making me wonder whether miller really is the goods like I have thought since they drafted him.

Since we know that thomas is a middling talent, If miller is that talented how come he hasn't blown this wide open yet?

He has gotten 9...count them...9 carries.

There is a reason for that.

This weekend he should see extensive action in the first half. And I expect him to show why he will be this teams starter. Time will tell and all this talk may help him drop in my redraft next week. If you (speaking in general not to you in particular) never saw Lamar Miller play at the U.....then move on...you have no idea what kind of special talent this kid has. When he get's past the line of scrimmage.....he is a threat to take it to the house....every time. He is a classic one cut runner and gone. Think of Clinton Portis in his rookie and 2nd year at Denver. He is that kind of runner.

Daniel Thomas looked good last week......first time he ever has. He was running for a roster spot. It looks like Jonas Gray is not going to make this team...which is a shame because he can be a far better short yardage specialist than Thomas. DT is not a good short yardage runner at all. But they will only carry 4 RB's and a FB. Miller, Thomas, Thigpen,kid from Florida (who has not looked that impressive at all...but was a draft choice this year).

Anyway......I have zero concerns about Lamar Miller. I know what he can do......and I fully expect this kid to blossom this year. In his limited action last year......he was very good.

Keep in mind as a rookie he came off Shoulder surgery, and did not have a full NFL off season and pre-season. He had to learn how to recognize pass protect assignments in a west coast offense after coming from The U in a Pro Set Offense.

Fast forward to 2013, he had a full off-season to workout, and he was 100% all off-season and in the pre-season. He is set to have a great year despite his 9 carries in 3 pre-season games......9 carries.

Not because he is losing a RB battle. Because the coaches know exactly what he can do...and what he will do when they let their thoroughbred loose.

Daniel Thomas....had to show this coaching staff he can play....he had to earn his roster spot. And so far he has earned it. He is playing for his spot. Miller is not. Thomas is not a starting caliber difference maker RB....Miller is.

Can't wait for the regular season already. Then we will see how things really go. And hey....if Miller flounders.....I will be the first on here to eat crow.

This reminds me of Moreno last year. Didn't show anything of note his first two years - low YPC, ran hesitantly. He got a good shot in pre-season game 4 and finally ran like his job depended on it - it did, I think he was on the bubble and a strong showing kept him on the team.

When the cards were on the table in regular season, he was behind the established starter in Moreno though, and wasn't active until injuries forced him to be the guy, and IMO he continued to run well.

Sometimes it takes the prospect of being cut to get a players attention. If the light indeed came on for DT, it is possible that he has turned the corner and is starting to reach his potential. Maybe this is a legit battle, and maybe the Dolphins end up marred in a legit RBBC.

ETA: if this is RBBC, Miller is the one to have, especially in PPR. He would lead in yards and receptions, DT may lead in TD's.

Edited by moleculo
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Per Rotoworld..

The Miami Herald believes the Dolphins' running back competition is legitimately "wide open."

Per reporter Armando Salguero, Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas split first-team reps in Monday's practice after Miller had previously taken a "majority" of the 11-on-11 snaps. Salguero believes Miller's fumble in the preseason opener and drop on third down against the Texans last weekend "caught (coach Joe) Philbin’s attention." Miller's edge in talent — and lack of history of mistakes — still gives him the edge over Thomas, but the duo's competition seems to be shaping up as more than coachspeak.
ETA: if this is RBBC, Miller is the one to have, especially in PPR. He would lead in yards and receptions, DT may lead in TD's.

I'd argue DT is the one to own, simply due to his non-existent ADP and possible value. If this really is a full blown RBBC Miller's ADP may be slightly inflated right now.

Edited by SameSongNDance
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Only the start of the season will tell...as a dynasty owner of miller I am anxiously awaiting that and holding my breath. I am concerned that he hasn't yet blown Daniel thomas out of the water in this competition. It's making me wonder whether miller really is the goods like I have thought since they drafted him.

Since we know that thomas is a middling talent, If miller is that talented how come he hasn't blown this wide open yet?

He has gotten 9...count them...9 carries.

There is a reason for that.

This weekend he should see extensive action in the first half. And I expect him to show why he will be this teams starter. Time will tell and all this talk may help him drop in my redraft next week. If you (speaking in general not to you in particular) never saw Lamar Miller play at the U.....then move on...you have no idea what kind of special talent this kid has. When he get's past the line of scrimmage.....he is a threat to take it to the house....every time. He is a classic one cut runner and gone. Think of Clinton Portis in his rookie and 2nd year at Denver. He is that kind of runner.

Daniel Thomas looked good last week......first time he ever has. He was running for a roster spot. It looks like Jonas Gray is not going to make this team...which is a shame because he can be a far better short yardage specialist than Thomas. DT is not a good short yardage runner at all. But they will only carry 4 RB's and a FB. Miller, Thomas, Thigpen,kid from Florida (who has not looked that impressive at all...but was a draft choice this year).

Anyway......I have zero concerns about Lamar Miller. I know what he can do......and I fully expect this kid to blossom this year. In his limited action last year......he was very good.

Keep in mind as a rookie he came off Shoulder surgery, and did not have a full NFL off season and pre-season. He had to learn how to recognize pass protect assignments in a west coast offense after coming from The U in a Pro Set Offense.

Fast forward to 2013, he had a full off-season to workout, and he was 100% all off-season and in the pre-season. He is set to have a great year despite his 9 carries in 3 pre-season games......9 carries.

Not because he is losing a RB battle. Because the coaches know exactly what he can do...and what he will do when they let their thoroughbred loose.

Daniel Thomas....had to show this coaching staff he can play....he had to earn his roster spot. And so far he has earned it. He is playing for his spot. Miller is not. Thomas is not a starting caliber difference maker RB....Miller is.

Can't wait for the regular season already. Then we will see how things really go. And hey....if Miller flounders.....I will be the first on here to eat crow.

Good post.

The pro Thomas crowd is being blinded by one good game this week and overlooking his 3.0 ypc combined his other two preseason games and the two years of crap film he has in his career up until this point. If he earns a split role I don't have any faith in him staying healthy anyway, I'm not buying on him.

It was indeed a good post with good points. But they don't just judge in preseason game performance. Practice performance counts too so my question is why hasn't miller blown thomas away in practice enough for the coaches to be decisive about who their starter is? Is it just a motivational ploy by philbin? Possible .

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

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Per Rotoworld..

The Miami Herald believes the Dolphins' running back competition is legitimately "wide open."

Per reporter Armando Salguero, Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas split first-team reps in Monday's practice after Miller had previously taken a "majority" of the 11-on-11 snaps. Salguero believes Miller's fumble in the preseason opener and drop on third down against the Texans last weekend "caught (coach Joe) Philbin’s attention." Miller's edge in talent — and lack of history of mistakes — still gives him the edge over Thomas, but the duo's competition seems to be shaping up as more than coachspeak.
ETA: if this is RBBC, Miller is the one to have, especially in PPR. He would lead in yards and receptions, DT may lead in TD's.

I'd argue DT is the one to own, simply due to his non-existent ADP and possible value. If this really is a full blown RBBC Miller's ADP may be slightly inflated right now.

well, yeah, considering ADP, you are right. I'm comparing the two neglecting ADP. I'm just saying - when there is a time share, you want the faster guy who is involved in the passing game.

Edited by moleculo
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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

That's a bit uncalled for.

I agree that this is a bit disconcerting for Miller owners, but we're not at the end game yet. I'm thinking that performance on the field in actual games will separate Miller from Thomas when it's all said and done.

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Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

No need to get all douchey about it. I drafted Miller back when there was absolutely no talk of a potential RBBC with Thomas -- hindsight is 20/20.

Miller has the talent to be a top 10 RB, all he needs are the touches. Let's see how his dress rehearsal goes in week 3.

Edited by Zab
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Daniel Thomas......for the first time since becoming a Dolphin....looked good tonight.

Lamar Miller had a nice agile/quick 4 yard TD jaunt. But got very little blocking on his limited chances tonight.

On a screen play on their first possession.....Pouncy missed the lead block...I mean whiffed. Otherwise....Miller was off to the races for at least 25-30 yards...maybe more.

DT knows he has to show something tonight. You can see it. Glad he had a good game....we are going to need him as RB is a position that suffers the most dings and injuries. Miller in pass protect did great.....so he can have upside as a 3 down back.

Once the real season gets going I would expect Miller to be this teams starter. The fight behind him is between Thomas and Gray. And Gilupsse must show,something tonight and next week.

We lost Keller tonight for the season.

I guess you missed his first two NFL games prior to getting hurt. Hasn't been given a true chance since then. Those are the facts. I love the excuses. Both guys will see carry's. all you Lamar Miller hard-on owners (maybe not you since you are a Dolfan as well) just can't stand it! Lol. Go Fins!

IF your a true die hard Dolphin fan....like me....you want Lamar Miller owning this job. He gives us the best chance to win.

If you don't realize that...then your simply a Daniel Thomas owner with you own agenda for your FF team.

If Daniel Thomas ends up being a stud......I will be thrilled. But my eyes do not lie. He is no stud....and I will be shocked if he wins this job. And I will be shocked to see an even time share over the course of 16 games.

Sherman wants a lead back. Not an RBBC.

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Armando at the Herald by the way is a little alarmist beat writer for the Fins. The guy loves to get scoop/headlines.

This is good for a redraft as Lamar is going too high for an unproven player (agreed he is unproven as he only had 50 something carries last year). late second early 3rd is too steep in a redraft. With this news...he has a shot to slip.

But I have a hunch he kills it this weekend in extensive action. If he breaks off one of his signature 40-50 yard jaunts.....forget it.

Daniel Thomas's body of work is just.......not good. And the Moreno comparison? Not really. Moreno was a stud at GA in the SEC..has wiggle and cut back ability. Thomas is a totally different runner. He is a straight up RB and to me those backs have a very difficult time being effective in the NFL. Very rare they succeed. Dickerson, Jackson, SA in Seattle.....they made it. Most don't. Jackson is a bruiser, Dickerson a HOF one cut speed demon and SA was so smooth and agile and rarely took big hits.

Time will tell.

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Sherman wants a lead back. Not an RBBC.

Dolphin homer and big Miller fan/owner, but I have seen no evidence that you can make the above statement.

I have to dig out a direct quote from Sherman who said he likes to have a lead back. He said it point blank a few weeks ago. I read it in the Sun Sentinal.

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"Yeah, we need someone who does it all," said Sherman. "You hate to just substitute, he’s this guy, he’s that guy, we want complete players back there. I’m not a believer in the third-down back necessarily, I think you tip your hand." Sherman also stated he wants his offense's "identity" to be run-based. This is all good news for Lamar Miller, assuming he beats out Daniel Thomas. (He will.)

Here you go.

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I'm not buying either of them

Great post. Maybe you should explain why and actually contribute.

Neither have really proven anything. The line is like Swiss cheese and Tannehill hasn't made the progress I thought he would have. At the point you can draft these two I prefer Wilson, Bernard, Lacy, Bell

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I'm not buying either of them

Great post. Maybe you should explain why and actually contribute.

Neither have really proven anything. The line is like Swiss cheese and Tannehill hasn't made the progress I thought he would have. At the point you can draft these two I prefer Wilson, Bernard, Lacy, Bell

Bell is out for several weeks and hasn't proved anything either, and that line looks bad as well. Wilson/Bernard/Lacy I could see though.

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Only the start of the season will tell...as a dynasty owner of miller I am anxiously awaiting that and holding my breath. I am concerned that he hasn't yet blown Daniel thomas out of the water in this competition. It's making me wonder whether miller really is the goods like I have thought since they drafted him.

Since we know that thomas is a middling talent, If miller is that talented how come he hasn't blown this wide open yet?

He has gotten 9...count them...9 carries.

There is a reason for that.

This weekend he should see extensive action in the first half. And I expect him to show why he will be this teams starter. Time will tell and all this talk may help him drop in my redraft next week. If you (speaking in general not to you in particular) never saw Lamar Miller play at the U.....then move on...you have no idea what kind of special talent this kid has. When he get's past the line of scrimmage.....he is a threat to take it to the house....every time. He is a classic one cut runner and gone. Think of Clinton Portis in his rookie and 2nd year at Denver. He is that kind of runner.

Daniel Thomas looked good last week......first time he ever has. He was running for a roster spot. It looks like Jonas Gray is not going to make this team...which is a shame because he can be a far better short yardage specialist than Thomas. DT is not a good short yardage runner at all. But they will only carry 4 RB's and a FB. Miller, Thomas, Thigpen,kid from Florida (who has not looked that impressive at all...but was a draft choice this year).

Anyway......I have zero concerns about Lamar Miller. I know what he can do......and I fully expect this kid to blossom this year. In his limited action last year......he was very good.

Keep in mind as a rookie he came off Shoulder surgery, and did not have a full NFL off season and pre-season. He had to learn how to recognize pass protect assignments in a west coast offense after coming from The U in a Pro Set Offense.

Fast forward to 2013, he had a full off-season to workout, and he was 100% all off-season and in the pre-season. He is set to have a great year despite his 9 carries in 3 pre-season games......9 carries.

Not because he is losing a RB battle. Because the coaches know exactly what he can do...and what he will do when they let their thoroughbred loose.

Daniel Thomas....had to show this coaching staff he can play....he had to earn his roster spot. And so far he has earned it. He is playing for his spot. Miller is not. Thomas is not a starting caliber difference maker RB....Miller is.

Can't wait for the regular season already. Then we will see how things really go. And hey....if Miller flounders.....I will be the first on here to eat crow.

Couldn't have said this any better. And I'll be right there with you eating crow if he bombs as I've been driving this train for a while here.

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I'm not buying either of them

Great post. Maybe you should explain why and actually contribute.

Neither have really proven anything. The line is like Swiss cheese and Tannehill hasn't made the progress I thought he would have. At the point you can draft these two I prefer Wilson, Bernard, Lacy, Bell

I'm not a Miller homer as my posts in here prove that, but you can't be serious about Lacy or Bell being BETTER than Miller right now no matter what the situations are like. I would, however, give the nod to Gio and Wilson. Gio will be a super star barring an unforseeable injury and Wilson is simply in a better situation with all the attributes Miller has.

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

I wonder if people were throwing away 2nd and 3rd round picks on TRich and Martin last year? There were certainly more proven players available around their adp's.

This entire hobby is about projecting how a player will perform with what data you have. When that data says talent + situation are coming together to be appealing, it's hardly wasting a pick. You may end up being wrong, but the data you had at the time of the pick made it worth making. Miller has talent, his competition for the position was seemingly a lesser talent comparatively, and all comments coming from the organization until this week were extremely positive in regards to Miller. Anyone who took Miller in the 3rd before this week was doing the right thing with the information we had. The fact that Miami is all of the sudden enthralled with DThomas doesn't change that.

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

I wonder if people were throwing away 2nd and 3rd round picks on TRich and Martin last year? There were certainly more proven players available around their adp's.

This entire hobby is about projecting how a player will perform with what data you have. When that data says talent + situation are coming together to be appealing, it's hardly wasting a pick. You may end up being wrong, but the data you had at the time of the pick made it worth making. Miller has talent, his competition for the position was seemingly a lesser talent comparatively, and all comments coming from the organization until this week were extremely positive in regards to Miller. Anyone who took Miller in the 3rd before this week was doing the right thing with the information we had. The fact that Miami is all of the sudden enthralled with DThomas doesn't change that.

That might be true, but at least Richardson and Martin were highly-touted rookies. Miller is a 2nd year player, who in his first year couldn't even get more touches than the flop that is Daniel Thomas, so you'll have to excuse some of us if we take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach with Miller instead of just assuming that he is suddenly gonna be a stud this year who can handle full-time touches.

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

I wonder if people were throwing away 2nd and 3rd round picks on TRich and Martin last year? There were certainly more proven players available around their adp's.

This entire hobby is about projecting how a player will perform with what data you have. When that data says talent + situation are coming together to be appealing, it's hardly wasting a pick. You may end up being wrong, but the data you had at the time of the pick made it worth making. Miller has talent, his competition for the position was seemingly a lesser talent comparatively, and all comments coming from the organization until this week were extremely positive in regards to Miller. Anyone who took Miller in the 3rd before this week was doing the right thing with the information we had. The fact that Miami is all of the sudden enthralled with DThomas doesn't change that.

That might be true, but at least Richardson and Martin were highly-touted rookies. Miller is a 2nd year player, who in his first year couldn't even get more touches than the flop that is Daniel Thomas, so you'll have to excuse some of us if we take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach with Miller instead of just assuming that he is suddenly gonna be a stud this year who can handle full-time touches.

I'm not saying that he will be a stud, at all. I'm saying prior to this week, with all of the data we had to work with, Lamar Miller made sense in the late teens as far as RB's go. Obviously, the Houston game, and the comments coming out of Miami this week have changed that. Prior to this week though, I don't think gambling on Miller in the 3rd was "throwing away" a pick.

My point is that gambling on a guy in the 3rd and being wrong isn't throwing away a pick. If the information you have at the time slots him there, then that is what you have to pay to get in. Some are more risk adverse than others, obviously, but that doesn't mean the people willing to gamble are wasting picks. I used Martin and TRich as fresh in mind examples of guys who some were declaring were wasted picks at their ADPs last year, and the gamblers were rewarded.

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Seems fishy to have so much praise heaped on the young man in OTAs, early TC, workouts with Gore, comments from Tannehill, improved blocking, etc. only for he and Thomas to be "neck and neck" at this point.

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As a Miller owner I would be giddy if he gets 67 percent of the carries. Off the top of my head wasn't there only like 6 running backs that got 70 percent or more of his teams carries last year?

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

I wonder if people were throwing away 2nd and 3rd round picks on TRich and Martin last year? There were certainly more proven players available around their adp's.

This entire hobby is about projecting how a player will perform with what data you have. When that data says talent + situation are coming together to be appealing, it's hardly wasting a pick. You may end up being wrong, but the data you had at the time of the pick made it worth making. Miller has talent, his competition for the position was seemingly a lesser talent comparatively, and all comments coming from the organization until this week were extremely positive in regards to Miller. Anyone who took Miller in the 3rd before this week was doing the right thing with the information we had. The fact that Miami is all of the sudden enthralled with DThomas doesn't change that.

That might be true, but at least Richardson and Martin were highly-touted rookies. Miller is a 2nd year player, who in his first year couldn't even get more touches than the flop that is Daniel Thomas, so you'll have to excuse some of us if we take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach with Miller instead of just assuming that he is suddenly gonna be a stud this year who can handle full-time touches.

I'm not saying that he will be a stud, at all. I'm saying prior to this week, with all of the data we had to work with, Lamar Miller made sense in the late teens as far as RB's go. Obviously, the Houston game, and the comments coming out of Miami this week have changed that. Prior to this week though, I don't think gambling on Miller in the 3rd was "throwing away" a pick.

My point is that gambling on a guy in the 3rd and being wrong isn't throwing away a pick. If the information you have at the time slots him there, then that is what you have to pay to get in. Some are more risk adverse than others, obviously, but that doesn't mean the people willing to gamble are wasting picks. I used Martin and TRich as fresh in mind examples of guys who some were declaring were wasted picks at their ADPs last year, and the gamblers were rewarded.

Last year miller was the youngest player in the nfl I believe. The dolphins had every intention of bringing him along slowly. He struggled in pass pro which limited his usage. Bush dominated touches and dt gave him a breather BC he was better at pass pro. Wasn't a talent issue. Edited by rickyg
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I just get the feeling the Miami coaches let some of this "news" leak (assuming it even really came from them) to keep Miller from getting complacent. Everything said about Lamar up until this point was positive in his favor, and it's not like this was something negative. Simply that they're in a competition. All coaches want competition.

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Personally, I'm not concerned with DT at all even with this news. Perhaps I should be, but I'm not. The oline is more of a concern IMO. Even with the oline I think it's too early to panic bit it's something I'll watch this week and certainly the first few games of the season.

As others said, I'll gladly eat crow if DT proves me wrong here.

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"Yeah, we need someone who does it all," said Sherman. "You hate to just substitute, he’s this guy, he’s that guy, we want complete players back there. I’m not a believer in the third-down back necessarily, I think you tip your hand." Sherman also stated he wants his offense's "identity" to be run-based. This is all good news for Lamar Miller, assuming he beats out Daniel Thomas. (He will.)

Here you go.

:goodposting: Guys Todem knows about the Dolphins. Don't doubt him.

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I just get the feeling the Miami coaches let some of this "news" leak (assuming it even really came from them) to keep Miller from getting complacent. Everything said about Lamar up until this point was positive in his favor, and it's not like this was something negative. Simply that they're in a competition. All coaches want competition.

I have thought this as well. Or maybe they want to install confidence in Thomas. But I find it VERY hard to believe Thomas will be the lead back. He just doesn't have that gear and big play threat Miller does. The NFL is about speed today, and Miller has that, Thomas doesn't.

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Miller/Thomas owner here, and I'm extremely worried about the whole situation. I drafted Miller to be my RB2 (like many of you, I'm guessing). This whole RBBC talk is extremely disconcerting, especially since it's pretty clear that Miller is the more talented back.

I hope it doesn't morph into a 67/33 sort of timeshare, that would be brutal for those who drafted Miller so high.

Hopefully you will learn not to throw away 2nd and 3rd round picks on completely unproven players

I wonder if people were throwing away 2nd and 3rd round picks on TRich and Martin last year? There were certainly more proven players available around their adp's.

This entire hobby is about projecting how a player will perform with what data you have. When that data says talent + situation are coming together to be appealing, it's hardly wasting a pick. You may end up being wrong, but the data you had at the time of the pick made it worth making. Miller has talent, his competition for the position was seemingly a lesser talent comparatively, and all comments coming from the organization until this week were extremely positive in regards to Miller. Anyone who took Miller in the 3rd before this week was doing the right thing with the information we had. The fact that Miami is all of the sudden enthralled with DThomas doesn't change that.

That might be true, but at least Richardson and Martin were highly-touted rookies. Miller is a 2nd year player, who in his first year couldn't even get more touches than the flop that is Daniel Thomas, so you'll have to excuse some of us if we take the "I'll believe it when I see it" approach with Miller instead of just assuming that he is suddenly gonna be a stud this year who can handle full-time touches.

Ghost.....if Miller did not have that shoulder surgery before the draft I can almost assure you he goes on day one. He was a star at UM and people do not seem to watch the Canes as closely as they used to. He was brought along very slowly last year for the reasons I gave you above. It was not DT in is way either...Reggie Bush was the teams horse.

I am not assuming he will be a star on a handful of touches last year. I watched his entire college career and he is a special talent. We stole him in the 4th round....traded up to get him....I applaud Ireland for this move as he made up for the debacle that is known as Daniel Thomas.....a 2nd round bust thus far.

Watch and see. I have as high a conviction on Lamar as I had on Chris Johnson and Jamal Charles when they came out.

Edited by Todem
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I had to choose between Miller, Russel Wilson, and Pierre Garcon in a keeper league. I was already rather familiar with Wilson and Garcon, so I've read and watched as much as I can on Miller these last few weeks. I've DVR'd the 2 Miami preseason games, so that I could not only watch Miller, but watch the line, watch everything, to be sure I was as informed as possible on Miller. I've also dug up highlights from college, and the little bit there is to go on last year. The guy just looks good to me. He looks incredibly smooth, he seems to almost gliding once he starts up-field, and he does it fast. His two runs in the first preseason game, and the 2 he had called back in the Houston game showed me a guy who can eat up 10 or so yards very quickly once he gets a crease. I've also watched a fair bit of Daniel Thomas over the last couple years, and obviously this preseason. To me, it really doesn't look that close, despite the nice game against Houston. Miller just looks like a better runner to me. I wound up choosing Miller to keep, and despite all the chatter this week about Thomas, I feel good about it. Talent almost always wins out in these situations, and having watched a lot of both backs, I honestly believe Miller will be the lead dog in this backfield sooner than later. I'm not saying a 350 touch workhorse, but there just aren't going to be many situations where D Thomas is going to be the better choice to accomplish something on the field.

It seems most people who actually are Dolphin fans, who are watching this firsthand and not reciting what they read, agree with this assessment. The Miller supporters may end up eating some crow at the end of the year, that is always a risk with an unproven player, but what I've seen is enough that I'll take that chance. This wouldn't be the first time a coaching staff has repeatedly heaped praise onto a veteran in camp and preseason in some attempt to keep the young player hungry.

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I drafted Miller over Gio Bernard in the 4th round of a PPR redraft. Hope I don't regret that decision. I do think both backs should have nice years though

4th round isn't bad for Miller. Every year we reach into the 4th round to grab guys like Miller so we can get Megatron, Dez and Bush in the first 3 rounds. Sometimes they turn into CJ Spiller and Doug Martin, sometimes they turn into Mark Ingram and Shonn Greene

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"Yeah, we need someone who does it all," said Sherman. "You hate to just substitute, he’s this guy, he’s that guy, we want complete players back there. I’m not a believer in the third-down back necessarily, I think you tip your hand." Sherman also stated he wants his offense's "identity" to be run-based. This is all good news for Lamar Miller, assuming he beats out Daniel Thomas. (He will.)

Here you go.

I own Miller as well, but that quote is from 2 weeks ago. The latest Sherman quote has Miller and Thomas "neck and neck" in the RB competition, which isn't something you want to hear.

I'm not worried that Thomas will beat out Miller -- I'm confident that the latter will get more touches. But I'm just worried that Thomas is going to eat away at Miller's opportunities. Miller owners drafted him with the assumption that he would get 3-4 touches for every 1 touch that Thomas got. His perceived lack of competition in Miami was one of the appeals for drafting him so early. I'm afraid it might get down to 2 touches for every Thomas touch.

Edited by Zab
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"Yeah, we need someone who does it all," said Sherman. "You hate to just substitute, he’s this guy, he’s that guy, we want complete players back there. I’m not a believer in the third-down back necessarily, I think you tip your hand." Sherman also stated he wants his offense's "identity" to be run-based. This is all good news for Lamar Miller, assuming he beats out Daniel Thomas. (He will.)

Here you go.

I own Miller as well, but that quote is from 2 weeks ago. The latest Sherman quote has Miller and Thomas "neck and neck" in the RB competition, which isn't something you want to hear.

I'm not worried that Thomas will beat out Miller -- I'm confident that the latter will get more touches. But I'm just worried that Thomas is going to eat away at Miller's opportunities. Miller owners drafted him with the assumption that he would get 3-4 touches for every 1 touch that Thomas got. His perceived lack of competition in Miami was one of the appeals for drafting him so early. I'm afraid it might get down to 2 touches for every Thomas touch.

Thanks for the link Todem. I too will ride Miller good or bad. Will not handcuff Thomas, nor will I pick him up if he is named the starter. Seen enough of him to know I'm not interested. If I'm wrong, it won't be the first time.

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I must admit I had conceded the job to Miller. However, as the story developed I have gone back and looked at college tape of both. I am now convinced that Thomas is the better player.

Miller is you typical COP speed back. He doesn't run with any toughness and lacks creativity. He can take a well blocked play to the house, but doesn't offer much else.

Thomas is no world beater, but his game is more well rounded. He is going to break more tackles, is a bit shifter and better in the pass game.

I fully expect Thomas to have more carries than Miller provided he stays healthy. I just wish I had come to that conclusion 5 drafts ago.

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"Yeah, we need someone who does it all," said Sherman. "You hate to just substitute, he’s this guy, he’s that guy, we want complete players back there. I’m not a believer in the third-down back necessarily, I think you tip your hand." Sherman also stated he wants his offense's "identity" to be run-based. This is all good news for Lamar Miller, assuming he beats out Daniel Thomas. (He will.)

Here you go.

I own Miller as well, but that quote is from 2 weeks ago. The latest Sherman quote has Miller and Thomas "neck and neck" in the RB competition, which isn't something you want to hear.

I'm not worried that Thomas will beat out Miller -- I'm confident that the latter will get more touches. But I'm just worried that Thomas is going to eat away at Miller's opportunities. Miller owners drafted him with the assumption that he would get 3-4 touches for every 1 touch that Thomas got. His perceived lack of competition in Miami was one of the appeals for drafting him so early. I'm afraid it might get down to 2 touches for every Thomas touch.

I guess my point in my posts with out spelling it out is don't read into that particular quote.

That is classic coach talk....truly is. The talent gap between those two is pretty large. It will show sooner rather than later.

Hang in there Miller owners.....our time is coming rapidly. Ignore the noise. Talent and speed win this race. Lamar Miller is your horse.

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I must admit I had conceded the job to Miller. However, as the story developed I have gone back and looked at college tape of both. I am now convinced that Thomas is the better player.

Miller is you typical COP speed back. He doesn't run with any toughness and lacks creativity. He can take a well blocked play to the house, but doesn't offer much else.

Thomas is no world beater, but his game is more well rounded. He is going to break more tackles, is a bit shifter and better in the pass game.

I fully expect Thomas to have more carries than Miller provided he stays healthy. I just wish I had come to that conclusion 5 drafts ago.

Ok......we will see.

Same exact things were being talked about with Chris Johnson and Jamal Charles....then they had real NFL off-seasons and became professionals.

Let's talk after the season. When both will have a body of work.

Edited by Todem
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I must admit I had conceded the job to Miller. However, as the story developed I have gone back and looked at college tape of both. I am now convinced that Thomas is the better player.

Miller is you typical COP speed back. He doesn't run with any toughness and lacks creativity. He can take a well blocked play to the house, but doesn't offer much else.

Thomas is no world beater, but his game is more well rounded. He is going to break more tackles, is a bit shifter and better in the pass game.

I fully expect Thomas to have more carries than Miller provided he stays healthy. I just wish I had come to that conclusion 5 drafts ago.

Ok......we will see.

Let's talk after the season. When both will have a body of work.

Don't think it is going to take that long. Edited by Nero
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I must admit I had conceded the job to Miller. However, as the story developed I have gone back and looked at college tape of both. I am now convinced that Thomas is the better player.

Miller is you typical COP speed back. He doesn't run with any toughness and lacks creativity. He can take a well blocked play to the house, but doesn't offer much else.

Thomas is no world beater, but his game is more well rounded. He is going to break more tackles, is a bit shifter and better in the pass game.

I fully expect Thomas to have more carries than Miller provided he stays healthy. I just wish I had come to that conclusion 5 drafts ago.

Ok......we will see.

Let's talk after the season. When both will have a body of work.

Don't think it is going to take that long.

I like to look back....not week to week beating my chest blah blah blah.

Proof is in the results.

But your right....it won't take that long. Miller will be doing just fine....very shortly.

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I must admit I had conceded the job to Miller. However, as the story developed I have gone back and looked at college tape of both. I am now convinced that Thomas is the better player.

Miller is you typical COP speed back. He doesn't run with any toughness and lacks creativity. He can take a well blocked play to the house, but doesn't offer much else.

Thomas is no world beater, but his game is more well rounded. He is going to break more tackles, is a bit shifter and better in the pass game.

I fully expect Thomas to have more carries than Miller provided he stays healthy. I just wish I had come to that conclusion 5 drafts ago.

Good to see I'm not the only one who doesn't think DT is complete ####. He truly looked different to me last week, shiftier than I ever remembered. I actually wasn't sure if it was him at first. He definitely doesn't have the same upside as Miller, but well-round is an apt description. Being the superior pass blocker, catcher and being better suited to run in between the tackles doesn't count for nothing. I smell some type of platoon regardless.

Also, I'm not sure if this was posted yet..

Dolphins' running back job 'absolutely' open
by Chris Towers | CBSSports.com

Dolphins head coach Joe Philbin told ESPN.com the running back job is "absolutely still open" as the team has yet to settle on one of Daniel Thomas or Lamar Miller as the starter.

"I think they both had a productive camp, and there is still more to be played before we make a final decision," Philbin said.

Neither player has really stood out in the preseason in limited chances, though Miller is the only one of the two to have scored in the first three games. Miller has rushed for 37 yards on nine carries, while Thomas is at 49 yards and 12 carries.

When asked whether the starting position was just a symbolic position, Philbin did not agree with that assertion.

"We want to reward the guys we feel earned positions on the football team, so obviously it will be important who the starter is," he said.

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I'm no Miller fan, but come on -- Daniel Thomas is JAG at best. Miller will succeed or fail based on himself, not because Daniel Thomas steals the feature job. It's not like anyone in the organization is gonna come right out and say "yeah, Dan sucks and it was a wasted pick. His butt is gone the second his rookie deal is up."

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