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RB Giovani Bernard, TB (1 Viewer)

Kleck

Footballguy
All this talk about Lacy or Tavon at 1.01, but I think Gio is not only the best back in this class, but landed in a great spot too. Bengals offense on the rise, and Gio is a great fit, especially in PPR leagues.

I'm fine with being wrong here. Also fine with Gio falling a bit and making it easier for me to grab him.

As a Packer fan I'm happy with Lacy, but I don't have a ton of faith that they'll ride him enough to be fantasy stud. Nice combo with Harris who I believe will get some carries too.

 
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All this talk about Lacy or Tavon at 1.01, but I think Gio is not only the best back in this class, but landed in a great spot too. Bengals offense on the rise, and Gio is a great fit, especially in PPR leagues.

I'm fine with being wrong here. Also fine with Gio falling a bit and making it easier for me to grab him.
Hard to argue. Most people wont take someone at pick 1 though unless they are getting immediate starters touches, and Gio probably won't unless he just destroys BJGE all offseason and preseason.

I could justify a handful of guys at pick 1 right now.

 
I'm not as high on his talent as most people are, but if you're a big believer in his talent then drafting him at 1.01 isn't a huge stretch at all.

ETA: Agree with the post below, this is the type of year where you really have to draft the rookies that you like talent-wise since there are no clear cut choices so all drafts will be fairly unpredictable from the top all the way throughout.

 
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He should be in the discussion. This is a crazy year. I think if we looked at like 100 leagues we might see 5-6 different guys go 1.1.

 
I'm not as high on his talent as most people are, but if you're a big believer in his talent then drafting him at 1.01 isn't a huge stretch at all.

ETA: Agree with the post below, this is the type of year where you really have to draft the rookies that you like talent-wise since there are no clear cut choices so all drafts will be fairly unpredictable from the top all the way throughout.
Not a stretch to take him at 1.01 but I could make the case for 6 guys to take first.

 
He was the 1st RB taken. Scouts had Lacy higher, but the Bengals did not.

I think he still needs some work on his pass protection so he may not be a huge impact right away. This is a very good offense however with many quality players that should help him be very effective when he does get some opportunity.

 
As the draft plays out the argument that there is very little difference between pick 1.01 and 1.06 becomes stronger it seems.

 
All this talk about Lacy or Tavon at 1.01, but I think Gio is not only the best back in this class, but landed in a great spot too. Bengals offense on the rise, and Gio is a great fit, especially in PPR leagues.

I'm fine with being wrong here. Also fine with Gio falling a bit and making it easier for me to grab him.

As a Packer fan I'm happy with Lacy, but I don't have a ton of faith that they'll ride him enough to be fantasy stud. Nice combo with Harris who I believe will get some carries too.
I agree with whats said but Lacy and Austin have less between them and a significant roll than Gio does IMO.

 
I can certainly see the argument, especially with the vacuum of talent at RB in Cincinnati at the moment, but I believe this will be a 'pick your poison' 1.1 pick. I'm glad I don't have the 1.1 in any of my leagues.

 
As the draft plays out the argument that there is very little difference between pick 1.01 and 1.06 becomes stronger it seems.
Yep, there are a lot of pick 1.06's in this draft. It's like the top 10 are all about the same as pick 6 most years, crazy

 
I can certainly see the argument for him at 1.01. If you believe in his ability, then he has to be the guy. He landed in a great spot IMO.

Mu guess as to the average ADP of the rookies now that we've seen a decent portion of the draft. Again, this is my guess as to how they will be taken, not my rankings.

Austin

Lacy

Bernard

Bell, biggest riser by far.

Ball, 2nd biggest riser.

Hopkins

Patterson

Hunter

Allen

G. Smith

Manuel

Wheaton

 
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/blog/rob-rang/22144805/2013-nfl-draft-bengals-draft-rb-bernard-first-back-off-the-board

2013 NFL Draft: Bengals draft RB Bernard, first back off the board


By Dane Brugler | NFLDraftScout.com Senior Analyst
April 26, 2013 7:30 pm ET
The 2013 NFL Draft is the 78th annual selection meeting for the NFL and for the first time in the history of the NFL Draft, a running back was not selected among the first 36 picks.

The Cincinnati Bengals drafted North Carolina running back Giovani Bernard with the 37th overall pick on Friday, the first player taken at his position in this year's draft.

The latest a running back was taken before this year was in 1963 when Alabama's Mike Fracchia was drafted 33rd overall by the Cardinals.

While Alabama's Eddie Lacy was widely believed to be the first running back off the board this year, Bernard now has that distinction. He became the first North Carolina running back to surpass 1,000 rushing yards since 1997, rushing for 1,200 yards each of the last two seasons. The scouting report on Bernard:

STRENGTHS: Compactly built with good lower body drive … quick feet and loose hips to make smooth lateral cuts and force poor angles by defenders … elusive moves and uses his eyes well to set up his moves and create room … great patience and feel to pick through the defense … runs balanced and close to the ground, making him tough to square up …effective pass catcher (92 catches) and punt returner … runs with toughness and is able to carry some tacklers with his leg drive and active style.

WEAKNESSES: Lacks breakaway speed and can be caught from behind … doesn't have ideal build or strength for the position, lacking the growth potential to get much bigger …very average power and prefers to avoid contact rather than deliver blows … good effort in pass protection, but limited due to his size … needs to stay focused on returns to complete the catch … strong durability concerns after several injuries throughout his career, missing two games in 2012 … missed 2010 season with ACL.
 
Is he going to be an every down back? It's my understanding BJGE is still in the mix. I would think BJGE would be the short yardage back thus stealing goaline carries. I think the later your rookie drafts are the better for those with top picks. I could see arguements for Lacey, Bernard, Bell, Ball and Austin as the 1.01 but I'd like to see how training camp shakes out. I think if your drafts are early then Lacey is the safest choice.

 
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Is he going to be an every down back? It's my understanding BJGE is still in the mix. I would think BJGE would be the short yardage back thus stealing goaline carries. I think the later your rookie drafts are the better for those with top picks. I could see arguements for Lacey, Bernard, Bell, Ball and Austin as the 1.01 but I'd like to see how training camp shakes out. I think if your drafts are early then Lacey is the safest choice.
Stealing goalline carries from Gio is like stealing them from Jamaal Charles. It's not his game.

if you go get Gio, you aren't thinking about every down, 25 carries a game. It's 12-16 carries, hopefully a bunch of catches, and maybe a score, either 5+ yard carry, or a reception.

Those guys are fantasy starters now.

 
Hard to argue the thought. Given that you can make an argument for a legit handful of guys to go #1.

 
Is he going to be an every down back? It's my understanding BJGE is still in the mix. I would think BJGE would be the short yardage back thus stealing goaline carries. I think the later your rookie drafts are the better for those with top picks. I could see arguements for Lacey, Bernard, Bell, Ball and Austin as the 1.01 but I'd like to see how training camp shakes out. I think if your drafts are early then Lacey is the safest choice.
Stealing goalline carries from Gio is like stealing them from Jamaal Charles. It's not his game. if you go get Gio, you aren't thinking about every down, 25 carries a game. It's 12-16 carries, hopefully a bunch of catches, and maybe a score, either 5+ yard carry, or a reception. Those guys are fantasy starters now.
Agree but if Lacey, Bell and Ball are getting the goal line carries that gives them a big advantage over Gio. Gio could very well have less carries then those 3 as well so he'll have to make up for it in the receiving dept. He is the best receiver of the 4 but whether it's enough to make up the difference remains to be seen. PPR it's realistic to think so in non PPR I'm not so sure.
 
For me personally? Because I don't like his game. But I could see an argument for those that really like him, to take him at 1.1 in PPR.

 
While we all talk about talent, the reality is that in most leagues, situation plays a decent factor in rookie drafts. Let's look at the competition each rookie RB faces.

Eddie Lacy: nobody (ok, DuJuan Harris, Alex Green, Starks - in other words, nobody)

Le'veon Bell: Dwyer, Redman

Montee Ball: McGahee, Hillman, Moreno

Gio Bernard: BJGE

Knile Davis: J Charles

Christine Michael: Lynch, Turbin

Lacy and Bell have essentially no material competition. Ball has to take opportunities from a couple other RBs who have serious concerns, but at least have been around. Gio will likey split carries with BJGE, who I personally think lacks NFL-caliber talent, but here he is anyway. Knile Davis could and will get touches, but has no starter potential unless Charles is injured. Michael is in the worst landing spot. Wow. What was Seattle thinking?

Based on the above, it's hard to see Gio as the #1 pick in rookie drafts. *Maybe* he is the most talented, but that is not anywhere near a slam-dunk. And at best, he's in the 3rd best situation. I would personally prefer Bell and Ball over him, probably Lacy too (even though I'm not a fan).

 
Lacy and bell would seem to have the best oppurtunity. Ball maybe depends on mcgahees recovery. If you dont need immediate help chose the most talented IYHO.

 
He was the 1st RB taken. Scouts had Lacy higher, but the Bengals did not. I think he still needs some work on his pass protection so he may not be a huge impact right away. This is a very good offense however with many quality players that should help him be very effective when he does get some opportunity.
I don't think you can say the scouts had Lacy higher. The media certainly did, but a lot of scouts made it clear they did not. Three teams stated absolutely unequivocally that Lacy was not the best RB in this draft. 32 teams stated implicitly (under the theory that the draft is a largely efficient market- a theory I subscribe to) that Lacy was a fringe 2nd-round talent. He almost fell out of the second round entirely. I think we have to update our beliefs about him to reflect this new information. Maybe teams were scared off by his medical issues, or maybe his character concerns were bigger than previously believed, but anyone was free to make a play for him at any time, and nobody did until Green Bay at the very end of the 2nd (and they later hedged by adding Franklin in the 4th).Given that, if you absolutely have to add an RB, I could definitely see Gio being the guy. Personally, there's no way I'd take him over Austin, but knowing how inflated RB values are in rookie drafts, I think we'll see him going 1.01 an awful lot this year.
 
He was the 1st RB taken. Scouts had Lacy higher, but the Bengals did not. I think he still needs some work on his pass protection so he may not be a huge impact right away. This is a very good offense however with many quality players that should help him be very effective when he does get some opportunity.
I don't think you can say the scouts had Lacy higher. The media certainly did, but a lot of scouts made it clear they did not. Three teams stated absolutely unequivocally that Lacy was not the best RB in this draft. 32 teams stated implicitly (under the theory that the draft is a largely efficient market- a theory I subscribe to) that Lacy was a fringe 2nd-round talent. He almost fell out of the second round entirely. I think we have to update our beliefs about him to reflect this new information. Maybe teams were scared off by his medical issues, or maybe his character concerns were bigger than previously believed, but anyone was free to make a play for him at any time, and nobody did until Green Bay at the very end of the 2nd (and they later hedged by adding Franklin in the 4th).Given that, if you absolutely have to add an RB, I could definitely see Gio being the guy. Personally, there's no way I'd take him over Austin, but knowing how inflated RB values are in rookie drafts, I think we'll see him going 1.01 an awful lot this year.
Thanks for the info. Which teams saw Lacy as a borderline 2nd round talent?

Gio is more the type of RB I look for as a all around starter type of RB in todays Nfl than a RB like Lacy or big bruising RB in general. But when I say scouts I mean media services such as the CBS, ESPN and others who almost all did have Lacy ranked higher although it was close.

I am a bit concerned about Lacy's work ethic and durability to be honest. I was before the draft but I was not willing to rank against the grain of so many experts over what might not have been serious concerns. Now that Lacy dropped as far as he did, and that the Packers also drafted Franklin to tandem with him, in a presumably pass first offense. I am not that excited about the situation that I see being split with Franklin taking a good bit of opportunity away or even possibly winning the job outright. That presents a tricky situation that should bump both RB down somewhat in expectations about their opportunity.

I like Gio, Stacey and Bells situations the most, perhaps Gillislee is Miami as well but I need to do more reading up on him than I have at this point. I am still assessing things as well, but the Green Bay and Cardinals RB pairs suggest that they will be splitting carries (although Arians has said he prefers a feature RB) which hurts the stock of Lacy, Franklin, Ellington and Taylor. Randle to the Cowboys and Ball to the Broncos are a bit of a muddy situation as well.

I still like Christine's talent a lot but that situation also looks like a tough path to playing opportunity.

For the most part I see those 3 RB going up slightly and mostly because of the other top RB prospects are going down.

 
He was the 1st RB taken. Scouts had Lacy higher, but the Bengals did not. I think he still needs some work on his pass protection so he may not be a huge impact right away. This is a very good offense however with many quality players that should help him be very effective when he does get some opportunity.
I don't think you can say the scouts had Lacy higher. The media certainly did, but a lot of scouts made it clear they did not. Three teams stated absolutely unequivocally that Lacy was not the best RB in this draft. 32 teams stated implicitly (under the theory that the draft is a largely efficient market- a theory I subscribe to) that Lacy was a fringe 2nd-round talent. He almost fell out of the second round entirely. I think we have to update our beliefs about him to reflect this new information. Maybe teams were scared off by his medical issues, or maybe his character concerns were bigger than previously believed, but anyone was free to make a play for him at any time, and nobody did until Green Bay at the very end of the 2nd (and they later hedged by adding Franklin in the 4th).Given that, if you absolutely have to add an RB, I could definitely see Gio being the guy. Personally, there's no way I'd take him over Austin, but knowing how inflated RB values are in rookie drafts, I think we'll see him going 1.01 an awful lot this year.
Thanks for the info. Which teams saw Lacy as a borderline 2nd round talent?

Gio is more the type of RB I look for as a all around starter type of RB in todays Nfl than a RB like Lacy or big bruising RB in general. But when I say scouts I mean media services such as the CBS, ESPN and others who almost all did have Lacy ranked higher although it was close.

I am a bit concerned about Lacy's work ethic and durability to be honest. I was before the draft but I was not willing to rank against the grain of so many experts over what might not have been serious concerns. Now that Lacy dropped as far as he did, and that the Packers also drafted Franklin to tandem with him, in a presumably pass first offense. I am not that excited about the situation that I see being split with Franklin taking a good bit of opportunity away or even possibly winning the job outright. That presents a tricky situation that should bump both RB down somewhat in expectations about their opportunity.

I like Gio, Stacey and Bells situations the most, perhaps Gillislee is Miami as well but I need to do more reading up on him than I have at this point. I am still assessing things as well, but the Green Bay and Cardinals RB pairs suggest that they will be splitting carries (although Arians has said he prefers a feature RB) which hurts the stock of Lacy, Franklin, Ellington and Taylor. Randle to the Cowboys and Ball to the Broncos are a bit of a muddy situation as well.

I still like Christine's talent a lot but that situation also looks like a tough path to playing opportunity.

For the most part I see those 3 RB going up slightly and mostly because of the other top RB prospects are going down.
Presumably all of them, since they all let Lacy fall to the very end of the 2nd round before drafting him. The whole idea of an efficient market is that if a player falls so far that he presents value that can't be ignored, another team will trade in to take him. Even Green Bay, which finally selected him, decided he wasn't worth the #55 draft pick (or, rather, as much as they could get for the #55 draft pick). If a guy falls that far, it's a pretty good indication that the entire league thought that was more or less where he belonged (or possibly even later- it only takes one team to overdraft a player, but it takes the entire league to let a player fall).

Also, for what it's worth, I really like Ball's situation in Denver. McGahee/Moreno were top 12 RBs in Denver last year. Whoever gets the ball is going to face a *TON* of nickel defenses. Ball's almost certainly going to be the goal-line back. I think his biggest threat is Hillman eating into his workload too much, but I think he has RB1 upside if he can wrest the McGahee role away (which I think is practically a fait accompli, given McGahee's age and cost).

 
why not one of about 6 guys, this is a wide open year for 1.01, any one of 6-7 players at 1.01 wouldn't surprise me.

 
He was the 1st RB taken. Scouts had Lacy higher, but the Bengals did not. I think he still needs some work on his pass protection so he may not be a huge impact right away. This is a very good offense however with many quality players that should help him be very effective when he does get some opportunity.
I don't think you can say the scouts had Lacy higher. The media certainly did, but a lot of scouts made it clear they did not. Three teams stated absolutely unequivocally that Lacy was not the best RB in this draft. 32 teams stated implicitly (under the theory that the draft is a largely efficient market- a theory I subscribe to) that Lacy was a fringe 2nd-round talent. He almost fell out of the second round entirely. I think we have to update our beliefs about him to reflect this new information. Maybe teams were scared off by his medical issues, or maybe his character concerns were bigger than previously believed, but anyone was free to make a play for him at any time, and nobody did until Green Bay at the very end of the 2nd (and they later hedged by adding Franklin in the 4th).Given that, if you absolutely have to add an RB, I could definitely see Gio being the guy. Personally, there's no way I'd take him over Austin, but knowing how inflated RB values are in rookie drafts, I think we'll see him going 1.01 an awful lot this year.
Thanks for the info. Which teams saw Lacy as a borderline 2nd round talent?

Gio is more the type of RB I look for as a all around starter type of RB in todays Nfl than a RB like Lacy or big bruising RB in general. But when I say scouts I mean media services such as the CBS, ESPN and others who almost all did have Lacy ranked higher although it was close.

I am a bit concerned about Lacy's work ethic and durability to be honest. I was before the draft but I was not willing to rank against the grain of so many experts over what might not have been serious concerns. Now that Lacy dropped as far as he did, and that the Packers also drafted Franklin to tandem with him, in a presumably pass first offense. I am not that excited about the situation that I see being split with Franklin taking a good bit of opportunity away or even possibly winning the job outright. That presents a tricky situation that should bump both RB down somewhat in expectations about their opportunity.

I like Gio, Stacey and Bells situations the most, perhaps Gillislee is Miami as well but I need to do more reading up on him than I have at this point. I am still assessing things as well, but the Green Bay and Cardinals RB pairs suggest that they will be splitting carries (although Arians has said he prefers a feature RB) which hurts the stock of Lacy, Franklin, Ellington and Taylor. Randle to the Cowboys and Ball to the Broncos are a bit of a muddy situation as well.

I still like Christine's talent a lot but that situation also looks like a tough path to playing opportunity.

For the most part I see those 3 RB going up slightly and mostly because of the other top RB prospects are going down.
Presumably all of them, since they all let Lacy fall to the very end of the 2nd round before drafting him. The whole idea of an efficient market is that if a player falls so far that he presents value that can't be ignored, another team will trade in to take him. Even Green Bay, which finally selected him, decided he wasn't worth the #55 draft pick (or, rather, as much as they could get for the #55 draft pick). If a guy falls that far, it's a pretty good indication that the entire league thought that was more or less where he belonged (or possibly even later- it only takes one team to overdraft a player, but it takes the entire league to let a player fall).

Also, for what it's worth, I really like Ball's situation in Denver. McGahee/Moreno were top 12 RBs in Denver last year. Whoever gets the ball is going to face a *TON* of nickel defenses. Ball's almost certainly going to be the goal-line back. I think his biggest threat is Hillman eating into his workload too much, but I think he has RB1 upside if he can wrest the McGahee role away (which I think is practically a fait accompli, given McGahee's age and cost).
I wouldn't be so sure about Ball's touches...Fox has a history of making rookies sit and wait for their touches, and you have to figure at least one of McGahee/Moreno will get first crack. Only way I can see Ball having a significant role out of the gate is if the veterans underperform, or injury strikes. Both are possible, but I don't like counting on that happening. That being said, if you believe Ball's talent will have him winning the job by the end of the year, then you take him anyways.

 
Just messing around with rankings so far, but I am having a hard time moving Bernard from 1.01 in rookie drafts, I love his situation with the Bengals.

1. Bernard

2. Austin

3. Patterson

4. Lacy

5. Bell

6. Hopkins

7. Allen

8. Hunter

9. Ball

10. Wheaton

Kelce

Geno Smith

EJ Manuel

Woods

Ertz

Franklin

Eifert

Lots of speculation early on and really even in FF drafts 2nd round picks are going to be where the real value is. One thing I know for sure though is that if you play IDP Arthur Brown is looking mighty good.

 
Also, for what it's worth, I really like Ball's situation in Denver. McGahee/Moreno were top 12 RBs in Denver last year. Whoever gets the ball is going to face a *TON* of nickel defenses. Ball's almost certainly going to be the goal-line back. I think his biggest threat is Hillman eating into his workload too much, but I think he has RB1 upside if he can wrest the McGahee role away (which I think is practically a fait accompli, given McGahee's age and cost).
Fox has historically preferred to play veterans over rookies (e.g., Deangelo Williams and Jonathan Stewart). Both McGahee and Moreno qualify as veterans here. Do you discount Fox's history on that front?

Also, it seems to me that pass protection and receiving ability is very important in the Denver offense. I am not aware that either of those things are strengths for Ball, but they certainly are strengths for Moreno. And I assume McGahee is probably better at those things also.

Even if McGahee gets cut, I still expect Moreno to have a significant role, possibly the lead role. And Hillman will also be involved. Doesn't seem like a recipe for Ball to be an impact player, at least not this year.

 
He was the 1st RB taken. Scouts had Lacy higher, but the Bengals did not. I think he still needs some work on his pass protection so he may not be a huge impact right away. This is a very good offense however with many quality players that should help him be very effective when he does get some opportunity.
I don't think you can say the scouts had Lacy higher. The media certainly did, but a lot of scouts made it clear they did not. Three teams stated absolutely unequivocally that Lacy was not the best RB in this draft. 32 teams stated implicitly (under the theory that the draft is a largely efficient market- a theory I subscribe to) that Lacy was a fringe 2nd-round talent. He almost fell out of the second round entirely. I think we have to update our beliefs about him to reflect this new information. Maybe teams were scared off by his medical issues, or maybe his character concerns were bigger than previously believed, but anyone was free to make a play for him at any time, and nobody did until Green Bay at the very end of the 2nd (and they later hedged by adding Franklin in the 4th).Given that, if you absolutely have to add an RB, I could definitely see Gio being the guy. Personally, there's no way I'd take him over Austin, but knowing how inflated RB values are in rookie drafts, I think we'll see him going 1.01 an awful lot this year.
Thanks for the info. Which teams saw Lacy as a borderline 2nd round talent?

Gio is more the type of RB I look for as a all around starter type of RB in todays Nfl than a RB like Lacy or big bruising RB in general. But when I say scouts I mean media services such as the CBS, ESPN and others who almost all did have Lacy ranked higher although it was close.

I am a bit concerned about Lacy's work ethic and durability to be honest. I was before the draft but I was not willing to rank against the grain of so many experts over what might not have been serious concerns. Now that Lacy dropped as far as he did, and that the Packers also drafted Franklin to tandem with him, in a presumably pass first offense. I am not that excited about the situation that I see being split with Franklin taking a good bit of opportunity away or even possibly winning the job outright. That presents a tricky situation that should bump both RB down somewhat in expectations about their opportunity.

I like Gio, Stacey and Bells situations the most, perhaps Gillislee is Miami as well but I need to do more reading up on him than I have at this point. I am still assessing things as well, but the Green Bay and Cardinals RB pairs suggest that they will be splitting carries (although Arians has said he prefers a feature RB) which hurts the stock of Lacy, Franklin, Ellington and Taylor. Randle to the Cowboys and Ball to the Broncos are a bit of a muddy situation as well.

I still like Christine's talent a lot but that situation also looks like a tough path to playing opportunity.

For the most part I see those 3 RB going up slightly and mostly because of the other top RB prospects are going down.
Presumably all of them, since they all let Lacy fall to the very end of the 2nd round before drafting him. The whole idea of an efficient market is that if a player falls so far that he presents value that can't be ignored, another team will trade in to take him. Even Green Bay, which finally selected him, decided he wasn't worth the #55 draft pick (or, rather, as much as they could get for the #55 draft pick). If a guy falls that far, it's a pretty good indication that the entire league thought that was more or less where he belonged (or possibly even later- it only takes one team to overdraft a player, but it takes the entire league to let a player fall).

Also, for what it's worth, I really like Ball's situation in Denver. McGahee/Moreno were top 12 RBs in Denver last year. Whoever gets the ball is going to face a *TON* of nickel defenses. Ball's almost certainly going to be the goal-line back. I think his biggest threat is Hillman eating into his workload too much, but I think he has RB1 upside if he can wrest the McGahee role away (which I think is practically a fait accompli, given McGahee's age and cost).
I wouldn't be so sure about Ball's touches...Fox has a history of making rookies sit and wait for their touches, and you have to figure at least one of McGahee/Moreno will get first crack. Only way I can see Ball having a significant role out of the gate is if the veterans underperform, or injury strikes. Both are possible, but I don't like counting on that happening. That being said, if you believe Ball's talent will have him winning the job by the end of the year, then you take him anyways.
Denver can save $2m against the cap in $2.5m in cash by cutting McGahee. I don't think he makes the final roster. Also, I don't think Moreno is a good RB, and I think the coaching staff feels the same way (couldn't even crack the active roster for most of last season). I know Fox's history, but I think in the past he's had better veteran options than he has right now. I think the mediocrity of the position might just wind up forcing his hand.

 
enver can save $2m against the cap in $2.5m in cash by cutting McGahee. I don't think he makes the final roster. Also, I don't think Moreno is a good RB, and I think the coaching staff feels the same way (couldn't even crack the active roster for most of last season). I know Fox's history, but I think in the past he's had better veteran options than he has right now. I think the mediocrity of the position might just wind up forcing his hand.
Didn't people underestimate Moreno (me included) last year?

 
Remember DeShaun Foster? Fox started him before DeAngelo, for two years at least.

Before that it was an aging Stephen Davis over DeShaun Foster.

Then it was DeAngelo over Jonathan Stewart.

Unless Fox radically changes his behavior Ball won't sniff the ball in 2013.

Maybe Elway is the guy to do that to Fox.

But on the other hand their championship window could slam shut the second Peyton is driven to the ground hard on a missed blocking assignment.

Risky play...

 
msommer said:
Remember DeShaun Foster? Fox started him before DeAngelo, for two years at least.

Before that it was an aging Stephen Davis over DeShaun Foster.

Then it was DeAngelo over Jonathan Stewart.

Unless Fox radically changes his behavior Ball won't sniff the ball in 2013.

Maybe Elway is the guy to do that to Fox.

But on the other hand their championship window could slam shut the second Peyton is driven to the ground hard on a missed blocking assignment.

Risky play...
Good post.

Q:I would like you to go into more detail on (Broncos running back Knowshon) Moreno in light of his production in the Chiefs game. Peyton Manning seems comfortable with him, he catches everything thrown in his direction and he even pointed out some defensive alignments from his running back position. Is it surprising the coaches used him extensively and were rewarded given his inactivity for the last six weeks?

A:Andy, it was pretty clear in the days leading up to the Chiefs game Moreno was going to be a big part of the game plan. And as things rolled on through Friday and Saturday, the rumblings were he would start the game.

Essentially, the Broncos moved him from being a gameday inactive for eight games into the starting lineup because they felt Moreno offered them the best size-speed combination with Willis McGahee on injured reserve to go with the things they needed in the passing game.

Broncos coach John Fox wants a bigger back in the lead role if possible. And when McGahee was injured, that left Moreno as the most physical runner available on the roster. And while Moreno took part in training camp, the preseason and the early part of the regular season after surgery to repair his ACL last December, Fox said this week Moreno is really just nearing 100 percent on the leg now.

It often takes at least a calendar year, sometimes even into the second calendar year, before a player feels as if he has regained his explosiveness in the repaired knee and more importantly the confidence to run on the repaired leg the way they did before the injury.

Or as John Fox put it:

"It does take time until you're 100 percent. You're cleared to play but you're not as exact as you probably think you should be. He needed some time and he had a great attitude, great mindset throughout that period of time and just by the nature of this league and injuries are part of the game, we knew we needed him and he went about it right so that's why he looked so good."

He was not running with confidence early in the season, was impatient at times with the ball and too hesitant at others. A fumble against the Falcons certainly didn't help his cause. He had just three carries in the game . And he was then a gameday inactive for eight consecutive games.

The time away seems, at least for one game, to have helped. He looked physically stronger against the Chiefs and ran with the most patience, setting up blocks effectively, that he's shown in his time with the Broncos. One of his biggest challenges moving forward will be to consistently show that patience and vision, because he has routinely run himself out of plays by ill-timed cuts.

When the Broncos moved him up to starter this past week, it was a combination of his improving health, their desire for some size in the backfield and, perhaps most importantly, Moreno's work in pass protection.

When Moreno came into the 2009 draft, many teams questioned whether he had the skills as a runner to live up to the fact the Broncos took him with the 12th pick of the draft. Those teams also said Moreno was one of the best backs on the board that year in pass

protection.

It is a strength of his game. Where the Broncos rate that strength on the things-to-do list for their running backs can be seen in the factthey signed Jacob Hester this past weekbecause of his abilities not only as a runner and receiver, but also as a pass protector.

Most of Hester's workout with the team, just before Thanksgiving, was in pass-protection scenarios. He is expected to see time in those situations in the offense quickly, possibly as soon as Sunday against the Buccaneers.

None of this is an indictment on rookie Ronnie Hillman other than he's being asked to do things, particularly in pass protection, as an NFL player that he was not asked to do in college and he's not doing them well enough for the Broncos' liking. Hillman's learning curve still has some uphill moments on it.

His speed and big-play potential will be an important part of the Broncos offense moving forward. The Broncos just need better production from the running backs when they are asked to block. That's a big part of why Moreno jumped up the depth chart last week.

Jeff Legwold: jlegwold@denverpost.com or twitter.com/jeff_legwold

Read more:Knowshon Moreno's pass protection a big part of his move into offense - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_22081830/knowshon-morenos-pass-protection-big-part-his-move#ixzz2Ro2ZLYgf
So the Bronco's would need to have faith in Ball as a pass protector to move Moreno from a good portion of the snaps I would think.

 
msommer said:
Remember DeShaun Foster? Fox started him before DeAngelo, for two years at least.

Before that it was an aging Stephen Davis over DeShaun Foster.

Then it was DeAngelo over Jonathan Stewart.

Unless Fox radically changes his behavior Ball won't sniff the ball in 2013.

Maybe Elway is the guy to do that to Fox.

But on the other hand their championship window could slam shut the second Peyton is driven to the ground hard on a missed blocking assignment.

Risky play...
Yup...when Willis went down we all thought Hillman would get his shot to start. Fox gave the starting gig to the guy that had been inactive (non-injury) for a couple weeks prior. They will not give the full time job to a rook until he proves his pass pro at the NFL level. I'm not saying Ball can't do it, but anyone who has been Fox'd in the pass will testify to it.

 
JohnnyU said:
Adam Harstad said:
enver can save $2m against the cap in $2.5m in cash by cutting McGahee. I don't think he makes the final roster. Also, I don't think Moreno is a good RB, and I think the coaching staff feels the same way (couldn't even crack the active roster for most of last season). I know Fox's history, but I think in the past he's had better veteran options than he has right now. I think the mediocrity of the position might just wind up forcing his hand.
Didn't people underestimate Moreno (me included) last year?
For fantasy purposes, absolutely. For NFL purposes? No offense faced nickel defense on a higher percentage of its snaps than the Denver Broncos. Denver also had a very strong offensive line, and a QB with a knack for checking into the most advantageous running plays. And Knowshon Moreno averaged 3.8 yards per carry. Now, that's not anywhere near as dire as it looks (Moreno was 2nd in the league in success rate, behind McGahee), but it shows that when it comes to actually running the ball, Moreno's just a guy even when he's at his very best.

The coaching staff is making no effort to extend Moreno- instead, they're spending a high draft pick on an RB for the second year in a row. Moreno spent half of last season on the gameday inactive list until McGahee got put on IR. We haven't really seen any reason to believe that the coaching staff likes him, but we've seen plenty of reason to believe that they don't. At least, that's how I read the tea leaves.

 
If you are picking him 1st for his skill set and the long-term potential of the offense under Jay Gruden, I'm buying. If you're buying because you think they're going to hand over BJGE's job to him soon, I think you'll be disappointed.

RBBC at best for Bernard in the short term IMO.

 
There are only a handful (2?) of RBs that aren't in a RBBC. It's just a matter of how bad the "committee" part is.

Even Adrian Peterson was only a 2 down back his rookie year.

 
ignoring the tangibles... Gio just has an it quality about him. Playmaker, very likeable, exciting to watch, mature, charismatic.

Lacy IMO, doesn't have it in that department. Also, the Johnathan Franklin pick scares me.

 
There are only a handful (2?) of RBs that aren't in a RBBC. It's just a matter of how bad the "committee" part is.

Even Adrian Peterson was only a 2 down back his rookie year.
Fair enough. I just get the impression a lot of people are writing off BJGE while I expect the Bengals are looking at it as another FJackson/Spiller situation.

I still fully expect BJGE to lead the team in carries and snaps from RB.

 
I think it's probably obvious to most that rookie RBs being involved in a timeshare is another effect of the increased reliance on the passing game. That is - rookie RBs normally aren't very good at pass protection.

Since this is a dynasty question, the hard part about all this is predicting which back will be the best 3-4 years from now. And then we're back to the "luck" part of the fantasy football equation.

 

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