bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Thanks for this. The rest of you guys stop mucking up this thread please. Vd nor paul are worth starting with reed out imo
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Jordan Reed - TE - SF (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Concept Coop
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Jed
Footballguy
It really is amazing, isn't it? If you don't think that Davis in his role alongside Reed as the receiving TE is more of a "blocking" capacity, then stop reading here. If you would agree that Davis' role alongside Reed results in more blocking than Reed, then continue on. If you've continued on then you've at least partially agreed with the assessment that Reed is the Redskins primary receiving TE while Davis functions as more of the inline/blocking TE. Whatever Vernon Davis' career receiving numbers are have no bearing on those two roles. They exist in the Redskins offense, and two separate TE's fill them. Reed is clearly the Redskins receiving TE. When in two TE sets Vernon Davis still runs routes, as he's not an offensive tackle, but he doesn't run routes as frequently as Jordan Reed does. Hence, let's call that the blocking TE role. And of course he's running more routes in that role than Niles Paul is, because Niles Paul is primarily on the sideline playing slapass with the backup QB. Now if Reed doesn't play, the question being discussed is what role Davis and Paul each play if the Redskins keep their offensive philosophy primarily the same? They could leave Vernon in the role he's in, and insert Paul into Reed's position and run the same set of plays each game. That would probably be least disruptive to their offensive flow. They could shift Davis into Reed's role and Paul into Davis', thus resulting in presumably more routes and targets for Davis than he's currently getting as the "blocking TE." Or most likely IMO is that neither Davis nor Paul fills Reed's role to the extent he typically does, and both pick up additional routes/targets yet neither to the extent that Reed was.
Nobody in this thread claimed that Davis can't catch, or that all he's good at is blocking. But yes, his current role alongside Reed in the Redskins offense is more of a blocking TE than receiving TE. You clearly think Davis' steps right into Reed's role while others are giving logical reasons as to why that might not be the case. Your lack of comprehension seems to lie in the fact that Davis being referred to as a "blocking TE" doesn't equate to people believing that all Davis is good at is blocking. Rather they're referring to the role he's currently fulfilling in the Redskins offense.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Some people play in large leagues that start more than 1 TE, where the best available TE is someone like Jack Doyle or Ryan Griffin. So yes, the replacement is potentially worth starting in those leagues.
Tommy Collins
Footballguy
Again, there is no lack of comprehension. If I don't agree with you, that means I'm not comprehending it? I understand the "logical reasons" which are nothing more than theories at this point, but don't agree with it. We'll see on Sunday.
JFS171
Footballguy
I was never trying to start anything, but your earlier posts sounded a whole lot like you were completely in the dark as to the theory. Then now you say you completely understand it, but don't agree with it. Well... those are two different things. Also, there's no evidence to support that VD just walks right into the role Reed vacates if he misses time. The fact that there's no evidence either way has led to the speculation the last few pages in this thread.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I just think the reed targets goto garcon crowder n djax. Not the replacement te. Good luck in ur start two te league
I'm wondering if this Reed news makes Crowder a sneaky start this week in my 0.5 PPG.
Jed
Footballguy
It would be a miracle if he plays this week, let alone the next couple. Has anyone in NFL history been documented with 6 concussions?
BroncoFreak_2K3
sucker for Orange
I Bet On All Games
Footballguy
Redskins homer here. Niles Paul beat out Reed for starting TE before he got injured for the season. VD will definitely have an uptick in targets but I would bet Crowder, Paul, VD get the targets in that order. Paul is the pickup if you need to.
Frank Black
Footballguy
VaTerp
Footballguy
Really never. It was early in pre-season 2015 when Paul got hurt. He was technically ahead of Reed on the depth chart at the time but most observers of the team knew a healthy Reed would be the guy at TE.
I think both Paul and Davis are gambles as pickups. I'd give the slight edge to Davis but glad I don't need to be interested in either.
I agree he is almost certainly out this week, but number of concussions is somewhat irrelevant, its how bad they were that matters. I've had 2 concussions, and neither was too bad, wasn't knocked out and didn't have much worse than headaches for a few days, and a sensitivity to light. If Reed's recent concussion is along those lines, I think it is entirely possible he plays in week 7.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
I think it's just as likely he never plays again. Depends on how much he values his brain working in 10-20 years.
Would 100% disagree. Until we know more about the nature of this particular concussion, there is no reason to assume he won't play in week 7. Its severity that is most important, not amount. This concussion could have absolutely zero effect on Reed's long term health. We simply don't have the information to know at this point.
RenegadeRoy
Footballguy
I don't want to get into a concussion discussion, but the bolded is not really true. It's been shown the the more concussions an athlete sustains over their career, regardless of severity, the more likely they are to have mood, cognitive, and other long term brain based problems later in life. I was saying before that Reed might just want to hang it up now before he does any further damage.
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Shutout
Footballguy
Didn't he put about 35 fantasy points last time he faced the Eagles? I know every year is different but I'm not sure you can categorically say it was horrible. No more horrible than Ertz's matchup last week seemed ideal...you never know.
I've heard concussions described as snowflakes, no two are alike and thus after effects and recovery are also different. So technically anything can happen on any concussion but I'm struggling to understand the logic that just last year he had his 5th concussion ,which knocked him out of two games, but now all of sudden on the 6th one he is as likely to be done as play again? Can't say I get the logic behind concussion number 5 was a two week deal but now that we've hit 6 I think it's time I focus on my long term health and call it a career? What makes 6 versus 5 the magic number?
Again, all concussions are a concern and more so when a player has had several but I think people are way over reacting on this situation, at least based on what we know so far.
Again, all concussions are a concern and more so when a player has had several but I think people are way over reacting on this situation, at least based on what we know so far.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
I agree for the most part but I am not really buying that RG3 was bad for TE. All of Jordan Reeds games in 2013 were with Griffin at QB and although Reed was a rookie, he did very well in those games. 2014 Griffin wasn't playing well but Niles Paul still had some very good games in Reeds absence for the first 2 weeks of the season with Griffin. There are too many examples of TE performing well with Griffin as the starter for me to accept that excuse for Barnidge.
It is kind of lucky in a sense that they didn't face Ebron and now it is looking like they will not face Reed in back to back weeks. However all of the TE that the Eagles have faced this season are currently in the top 13 for fantasy scoring, yet all of them have had some of their worst games against the Eagles, so I would think they deserve some credit for that.
At the same time I am thinking it may be a bad match up for Rudolph in week 7. Part of that is because of the Vikings shaky tackle play and Rudolph likely being asked to block more in that match up unless some of the other Vikings TE can get healthy enough to fill that role. Which also doesn't have anything to do with how well (or not) the Eagles defense matches up against TE but if that happens (Rudolph doesn't do much in that game as a receiver) will add more fuel to that bottom line.
So it goes with all statistical analysis without context.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This makes no sense. Using this logic why would anyone ever retire? I mean yeah some guy was old in year 12 but he played anyway. What makes year 13 the magic number for him to retire? What made the 9th season (where he didn't miss any games) special for Calvin Johnson to call it quits when injuries in his 8th season just meant he missed a few games?
Every concussion this guy has is a potential breaking point for him to finally make the (right) decision to hang 'em up and live out a normal life.
bostonfred
Footballguy
He probably contemplated retirement after 5, too, but not as seriously and obviously chose not to
A multi day recovery time last time may have him jittery this time
All the attention on concussions right now may have him scared.
Or his wife/family/team/nflpa rep/doctor/whatever
He had a big season since then - but now also another concussion - which may keep him from ever truly cashing in on a contract.
There are lawyers and insurance companies and agents talking to him about the money he might win in a lawsuit as the highest profile active concussion sufferer in the nfl.
This one might actually be worse than the others
He might have tried to hide this one and then decided he couldnt anymore
Off the top of my head. All hypothetical obviously but those are all very valid reasons this time might actually be different.
Thanks for feedback but I looked back in this thread and found answer to my question, but I'll offer an additional one no one has touched on yet just as well.
People are not really over-reacting to his 6th concussion any more than they over-reacted to this previous two in the since both of those times multiple people came here posting they thought he was done. So really this is nothing new.
That being said, depending on how his contract is worded there is something different this time versus the last concussions that I don't think has been brought up. He got paid and that pay was guaranteed at an amount of $22million for injury. There may be technical details in that deal that are not as cut and dry as him just saying enough is enough but if he can truly collect the full $22m then I would say that's a game changer versus the last two times when he was probably earning in $600K or so annual range. He went from making good money to set for life money, which can certainly impact one's decisions making I don't care how much you love football. Personally I think he's returning but that is definitely a different thing to factor in than he's had to mull over in the past.
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Completely irrelevant. There is a monumental difference between the dumpster fire of Chip Kelly's and Billy Davis versus Jim Shwartz.
Shutout
Footballguy
So, you play a game where your draft valuation of players is about 95% based on past performance but in this particular case it doesn't apply at all?
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
Sorry man. Eagles homer. Just trying to help. Their D this year is VASTLY different than the one last year where I had Reed win me a title thanks to that game.
But, do what you will....
Sebowski
Footballguy
According to him, it is all up to God, so that's good news for us, and bad news for his brain.
This should be a podcast.
"This week on Concussion Discussion..."
Rodrigo Duterte
Footballguy
OMG that is SO cool!!!!!Kwai Chang Caine said:
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
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Holy Schneikes
Footballguy
The exact concussion concern scale:
1 not a big deal.
2 not that big a deal
3 not a huge deal, but a little concerning
4 Houston, we have a problem
5 This probably means football isn't for you anymore
6 Too late, the 5th one scrambled your brain so much that you don't recognize the 6th one is one too many
Seriously, of course there is nothing magic between 5 and 6, but it most definitely DOES matter how many you get, and every additional one is worse - especially during a relatively short period of time. People WERE freaking out about the 5th one, and rightfully so. And now people are freaking out about this one. That doesn't mean he can't or won't come back. But every one makes it more likely he won't, and eventually the league or team doctors etc will step in and make the decision for him.
Skeletore Eh
Footballguy
Smh at the people in here trying to claim the number of concussions doesn't matter
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I don't think the number means a thing to be perfectly frank in terms of people trying to project severity or outcome on his future. It only means one thing. He is susceptible to concussions which means likelihood of him getting concussed again is very high and ANY concussion can end a career so he'll always be a major high risk. Just as I thought he was after concussions #4 and #5, a major risk.
The number does not mean a thing in terms of his outlook from THIS concussion and I will say why. I'll just ahead and let everyone know how this process is going to work, I don't know jack squat about the actual outcome, only the process. It's actually real simple.
Jordan Reed is in the concussion protocol. When he passes the baseline tests and is cleared from this concussion he'll resume playing. Period. End of story.
If Jordan Reed does not pass the baseline tests in next few weeks and/or worsens he will get put on IR. The mere fact that THIS concussion was serious enough to put him on IR, which could be attributable to longer recovery times some believe are related to multiple concussions it would could cast a doubt on his future playing career beyond this season.
It has nothing to do with the number of concussions. What is not happening right now, what is not being reported by anyone right now, is that Jordan Reed and his people are sitting around pondering if number 6 was the straw that broke the camels back and it's time to walk away. No credible source is reporting this is going on because it's not. He's simply trying to get cleared and when he does he'll play and if he can't he won't, maybe ever.
End result it's got nothing to do with the number. It's got everything to do with the severity of THIS concussion. This concussion could absolutely end his career but if it does it's because of the severity of this particular concussion are having on him and his recovery, not the number of concussions.
zamboni
Footballguy
It's baffling that you see this as so black and white, and assign a 0% probability to the scenario that Reed is medically cleared to play, but chooses to walk away anyway.
No idea why it's 100% impossible that Reed is the next guy to draw the line and say "I'm not taking the risk anymore". Several other guys in his shoes have done exactly that.
I take black and white over arbitrary all day every day and baffling to me when others don't.
The problem is, your black/white logic that states so long as a player is medically cleared to play, he will play, period, end of story, is flawed.
Guys that are perfectly healthy are walking away from the NFL (and college football) over the concussion issue.
Black and white: Coach Jay Gruden said "if Jordan feels OK, he'll be there."
Arbitrary: person with no direct knowledge or reports from any source, with no reports from anyone associated with Redskins, no reports associated from Reed or anyone close to him that walking away from the game is even remotely on the table simply concludes that 6 is the tipping point regardless of severity of this particular concussion for him to call it a career.
My logic is not the one that is flawed here chicken little.
xrayveggin
Footballguy
Biabreakable
Footballguy
The problem with concussions compared to other injuries is that a player who suffers a concussion is more likely to have that injury again in the future. Anyone who has invested in Reed should be aware of that risk.
Wonderllama
Footballguy
I would try to trade Reed ASAP before more bad news comes out. A lot of people might now realize how serious this could be. Also in Yahoo his projections are still up as if he'll be okay. I'm trying to package him and upgrade at another position.
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