Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Joseph Randle cut and suspended for four games (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Biabreakable
- Start date
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Tellya one thing, Randle will run like he has the devil himself behind him on Sunday Night Football. My guess is he knows he has one shot to be an NFL starting running back and he will make it count.
Great point. I'm sure Jerry is happy to turn up the fire under Randle. It'll be swim or sink all year
addicted2ff
Footballguy
Tbh CMike is the one that controls his own destiny here. If he somehow gets his s*** together there's really nothing Randle or McFadden can do to stop him from taking over. If he remains the same guy as when Seattle cut him it's back to square one with the Randle/McFadden hot hand RBBC.
Last edited by a moderator:
Kwai Chang Caine
Footballguy
What am I missing here? Micheal gets traded for a bag of peanuts by a team that's been to the last two Super Bowls and has one of the best coaches and programs in football. And he's being replaced by a 47 year old running back. Now he's in Dallas which to fair, has improved over the last year or so, is still not regarded with the same stability and excellence that Seattle has. Yet, this guy (who by all accounts is dumber than a bag of hammers) is gonna waltz in, learn the Playbook and behind the awesome Dallas line, rush for 1500 and 12. Ok...
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Sabertooth
Footballguy
You are missing that Michael is bigger, stronger, and faster than Randle. Maybe he gets it, maybe he doesn't. If he does, Randle will have his role reduced. It isn't an A or B thing either. Michael could do any of a broad spectrum of things. He could flame out. He could take the starter's role. He could do anything in between. His arrival either means nothing for Randle, or something. My bet is that in some way Michael decreases Randle's fantasy points this season. The question is how much.
Last edited by a moderator:
Todem
Footballguy
Your missing the fact that Dallas traded peanuts for this so called knucklehead because they lack confidence they have a RB who can be special on the roster.
This is a move that screams we need a play maker at RB. Let's take a shot on a kid who has superior physical talent. Let's see if our low risk trade can turn into a homerun.
I never thought Randle was starter material. This trade confirms it. Not to say Randle can't hold on to a starters role. But this reeks in a lack of confidence in him and McFadden.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Actually Randle was the faster with his proday. He was known to have had a bad combine (with a bum hand).
4.52 s vs 4.54 s
He is also a better pass catcher then either CM or Murray. And was used spread out in college.
And CMike overslept at the combine.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
bostonfred
Footballguy
Acquiring Michael means the Cowboys liked Michael better than their 4th rb.
Trading a 7th for him means that neither side felt he was a priority add.
Wanting to improve your 4th rb means you want something from the position. Some teams don't carry four backs. Others use a third down back, a change of pace back, a goal line back, a special teams guy, a true backup, a developmental guy who is being groomed for a bigger role, or some combination of the above. Clearly they envision a role for him.
The fact that they were linked to multiple rbs suggests that they felt they had an area of need. They already had a camp battle so it wasn't about motivating the guys.
Randle's value was already discounted by his unknown and probably lower talent level, as well as a possible committee where he might lose some or all of his job.
The odds of him losing his job haven't changed significantly, his upside hasn't changed, he's still the week one starter, but his price has gone down.
I can understand not wanting to invest heavily in him right now, but for the right price, he's become a buy.
Trading a 7th for him means that neither side felt he was a priority add.
Wanting to improve your 4th rb means you want something from the position. Some teams don't carry four backs. Others use a third down back, a change of pace back, a goal line back, a special teams guy, a true backup, a developmental guy who is being groomed for a bigger role, or some combination of the above. Clearly they envision a role for him.
The fact that they were linked to multiple rbs suggests that they felt they had an area of need. They already had a camp battle so it wasn't about motivating the guys.
Randle's value was already discounted by his unknown and probably lower talent level, as well as a possible committee where he might lose some or all of his job.
The odds of him losing his job haven't changed significantly, his upside hasn't changed, he's still the week one starter, but his price has gone down.
I can understand not wanting to invest heavily in him right now, but for the right price, he's become a buy.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Read back through this thread -- the scenario you outlined is pretty measured and realistic relative to much of the nonsense in this thread.It absolutely is a dream situation for any RB -- great line, great offense, minimal proven competition. If any one RB ends up taking control of the touches, then that guy is going to win leagues for people.
Last edited by a moderator:
JFS171
Footballguy
The bolded above - 100 times this. What I'll add is they traded a conditional 7th... his price could end up being zero, zip, nothing. AT MOST he cost them a 7th. All this confirms from Dallas' perspective is that they think Christine Michael is better than Gus Johnson (who's now on the practice squad).
If Dallas was truly concerned about their RB situation, they'd have brought in a guy much sooner than the Saturday before the season. They'd have signed someone at the beginning of camp or traded for a guy long before now. What this tells me is they're concerned about their depth. Maybe they're not sold on Randle or McFadden getting it done, OR perhaps they think they're talented enough and are just being prudent with depth. Either way, it's not a glowing endorsement of Michael or a death knell for Randle.
As stated above, his price to acquire has gone down... nothing else has changed. He's going to get the chance to start, and in that starting chance he will get first crack at establishing himself as a feature back. He hasn't done it before in the league, so Dallas would be rather stupid to just assume he can with no fallback plan. But if Randle plays well behind that line... Michael may not even be active most game days (unless he passes McFadden or Dunbar on the depth chart for their roles).
The ball is firmly in Randle's court.
Last edited by a moderator:
bostonfred
Footballguy
To clarify my positing, Michael's value definitely went up. McFadden's went down, because he's no longer the only plan b in town. Randle's went down, too, but a very small amount. But the market adjusted more than a small amount.
If Randle was overvalued before, he might be appropriately priced now, or he might still be overvalued. If he was appropriately priced before, he's a bargain now.
McFadden could still end up being the guy, and while his actual value went down more than Randle's, his price really dropped. So he's not a bad lottery ticket if you have the bench to carry him.
Michael went from waiver trash to a medium term lottery ticket. He's not going to start week one or two so you're going to need to hang on to him for a while. His price will drop and his owner may dump him if either cowboys back has a good game this week - so I wouldn't spend any faab dollars on him. But he's a high upside lottery ticket and those are always nice.
If Randle was overvalued before, he might be appropriately priced now, or he might still be overvalued. If he was appropriately priced before, he's a bargain now.
McFadden could still end up being the guy, and while his actual value went down more than Randle's, his price really dropped. So he's not a bad lottery ticket if you have the bench to carry him.
Michael went from waiver trash to a medium term lottery ticket. He's not going to start week one or two so you're going to need to hang on to him for a while. His price will drop and his owner may dump him if either cowboys back has a good game this week - so I wouldn't spend any faab dollars on him. But he's a high upside lottery ticket and those are always nice.
Chaka
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I don't think so. Generally conditional picks go up in value depending on those conditions. For example should Michael be on the active roster for X number of games it becomes a 6th round pick. Not that that makes any huge difference but they spent at least a 7th either way.
Todem
Footballguy
It's an opinion....not a fact.
The season will tell the story. Let's check back mid-season. If I am wrong I will bow to your fantasy prowess.
Kenny Powers
Footballguy
In my draft last week, Randle went 56th overall. I considered him but instead took Foster a few picks earlier.
In my draft tonight he went 57th overall. I was very tempted to take him a few picks earlier, but instead took Doug Martin.
Im slightly more nervous over the latter decision than the former right now, but Im just not sold on Randle as being a consistent RB2 at this juncture. I wouldnt be shocked be any means if these decisions blow up in my face, but while I expect Randle to be the most productive of the DAL backs, it may not be by much, and I have a feeling this is to a degree a 4 way RBBC most of the season.
In my draft tonight he went 57th overall. I was very tempted to take him a few picks earlier, but instead took Doug Martin.
Im slightly more nervous over the latter decision than the former right now, but Im just not sold on Randle as being a consistent RB2 at this juncture. I wouldnt be shocked be any means if these decisions blow up in my face, but while I expect Randle to be the most productive of the DAL backs, it may not be by much, and I have a feeling this is to a degree a 4 way RBBC most of the season.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Randle's gonna rock it like a vandal on SNF then I'm gonna trade him like a scandal.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
ourmanflint
Footballguy
What a joke the Cowboys are. They honestly think McFadden of the 3.3 ypc for the past 3 years is their best bet? LOL, they thought they were smart getting rid of Murray. For a team with so much talent, they have done nothing in the playoffs and with that OL, it is going to be funny to see them do nothing on the ground. Murray averaged over 5 ypc and even the FB Reece averaged around 4.5 ypc over the same time period. McFadden the past three years has been in the TRich area.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
Fair point in that it could go up, theoretically. It could also go down. It does NOT mean they spent at least a 7th.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
The offensive line was far more responsible for the Dallas running game than was Murray last year, and letting Murray walk was more about the cap than anything else. If they can cobble together 80% of Murray's production from guys combining for < 50% of his price, it's a win for Dallas.
Banger
Footballguy
I think Dallas approached their RB situation way too arrogantly this offseason by thinking any warm body can be successful behind their line. It's a big risk since the run game covered up their defensive issues last year. I think now they may be realizing that they may have overplayed their hand and they seem to be back peddaling saying things like they are just looking for teams to respect their run game. This is a run game that absolutely crushed teams last year and there was nothing they could do about it and now they are looking for teams to respect it?
I was very interested about Randle and the opportunity this offseason but as time went on the situation keeps getting muddier instead of clearer. There may end up being a pot of gold in this backfield but I'm leaving it to someone else to deal with the weekly guessing game. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
I was very interested about Randle and the opportunity this offseason but as time went on the situation keeps getting muddier instead of clearer. There may end up being a pot of gold in this backfield but I'm leaving it to someone else to deal with the weekly guessing game. Will be interesting to see how this shakes out.
Banger
Footballguy
I disagree because Dallas's defense was able to be hidden last year due to the dominance of their run game and if that is 20% less effective their defense will be exposed. That will change game scripts and the amount of times they will run vs. pass...the effectiveness or lack thereof may also result in shrinking the potential size of pie in the run game.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I fully agree that adding a reliable low cost veteran would have made sense -- but considering their cap situation, breaking the bank to keep Murray, who had been pretty inconsistent until last year, wouldn't have been a smart move long term.
cr8f
Footballguy
We'll see how good their run blocking is this year. That too could have been hidden by Murray.
Banger
Footballguy
Ya, I can fully understand not breaking the bank for Murray but I think they should have gotten a better more reliable duo than Randle/McFadden. With the number of RBs int the draft I don't know why they didn't pick a guy up later in the draft to add to a decent vet or two. I think a guy like Chris Johnson would've been a huge upgrade over anyone they have on their roster. Guy is a knucklehead but the Cowboys clearly don't care anything about character so he would've fit in perfectly.
Yeah, definitely get the cap situation, but I also 100% agree with Banger. The Jones boys are very arrogant. I used to be a Dallas fan growing up, but I can't stand the Joneses. I loved Jimmy as a coach and Jerry's ego got so big that he ran off what could have been the only time we may ever have seen a three-peat or even a four-peat Super Bowl champion. I have no doubt Jimmy wins over Switzer in year 4 and Jimmy owned the 49ers. All they had to do was win that game and they easily beat the Chargers.
They absolutely are thinking the same way, Murray is replaceable. They believe the OL hype and maybe they are right, but I think the Murray to Randle/McFadden drop off is much bigger than they realize. Again, look at the difference between McFadden and L. Murray last year was almost 2 ypc.
It will be very interesting to watch it this year.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I haven't read up on this trade I guess - but could the Cowboys actually owe nothing? What would need to occur, Michael not be activated all season?
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
I think that it's a 7th if Michael stays on the roster for three weeks, and nothing if he's cut prior.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
If that's the case then for all intents and purposes it's a 7th. Unless Michael does something stupid (like steal some underwear) he's going to still be on the roster in Week 3 even if he hasn't been worked into the offense yet.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Yeah, that was probably just put in there as protection in case he couldn't pass a physical or something IMO.
VikingFrog
Footballguy
I own Michael, Randle, and McFadden on quite a short bench. I don't care who wins the job as long as it shakes out quick. I'm not very confident in that happening.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
My guess is Randle early in the season, Michael late, McFadden COP until he gets hurt. Someone will get points there in that offense.
Chaos Commish
Footballguy
Close. If he suits up for three weeks it's a seventh. If he rushes for 2k and 20 tds it's a 7th. If he suits up less than three weeks then no pick.
Touchdown There
Footballguy
If you are going to get a running back in the draft, the second round is the place to do it. Randy Gregory fell far and they had to pull the trigger.
JFS171
Footballguy
I'm not exactly thrilled to have Randle in my lineup, but the matchup is juicy and I still believe he gets the first shot to establish himself, regardless of the McFadden hype.
Again, in the third preseason game Randle played the first 4 series exclusively with Dunbar handling one 3rd down opportunity. McFadden entered in the 2nd quarter after Randle's day was done. He's been banged up all camp, so getting depth behind him absolutely makes sense.
Can Randle play? That's the real question... I don't think he's a star, but I don't think he'll have to be behind that OL in this game against the Giants. If he rattles off a few strong games early and stays healthy, it won't matter that Christine Michael is trying to figure out how to open his playbook on the sidelines.
Again, in the third preseason game Randle played the first 4 series exclusively with Dunbar handling one 3rd down opportunity. McFadden entered in the 2nd quarter after Randle's day was done. He's been banged up all camp, so getting depth behind him absolutely makes sense.
Can Randle play? That's the real question... I don't think he's a star, but I don't think he'll have to be behind that OL in this game against the Giants. If he rattles off a few strong games early and stays healthy, it won't matter that Christine Michael is trying to figure out how to open his playbook on the sidelines.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Disagree with this. IMO, Michael's physical ability is on an entirely different level compared to Randle's, and I'm pretty far from a Michael fanboi. The amount of work that Michael puts in learning the system and doing the little things are what will determine how this plays out, not what Randle does.
ImTheScientist
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
Then why wasn't he used ahead of Turbin or kept over FJax? It takes more than being an athlete to play in the NFL.
JFS171
Footballguy
Hell why wasn't he kept over UDFA Thomas Rawls when all it cost was a 7th? Seattle said they'd rather MAYBE have a 7th and Thomas Rawls than this uber-stud RB who's a SPARQ freak. Just think about that.
matuski
Footballguy
JFS171
Footballguy
BTW - any of you Michael Truthers out there seen his Mockdraftable page? Check out that sexy list of comps based on his combine athleticism!
Doesn't even factor in the bonehead component... on pure athletic ability his top comps are David Johnson, Jonathan Grimes, Curtis Keaton, and Michael Ford.
JFS171
Footballguy
It's not a black and white thing for me... it's a preponderance of the evidence. I'm floored how many people expect Michael to just waltz in and take this over when the vast majority of the evidence to date says that's not going to happen.
matuski
Footballguy
matuski
Footballguy
By your own line of argument.. D Murray must be worthless because Dallas didn't re-sign/extend him.
Randle must be more worthless because he couldn't unseat the worthless D Murray.
And so on. An easy game to play if you pick and choose like you are. The reality of course is there is much more to it, and a lot of differences between where he left and where he went in terms of opportunity/obstacles.
Randle must be more worthless because he couldn't unseat the worthless D Murray.
And so on. An easy game to play if you pick and choose like you are. The reality of course is there is much more to it, and a lot of differences between where he left and where he went in terms of opportunity/obstacles.
Last edited by a moderator:
JFS171
Footballguy
I'm honestly not following you here... Murray got paid to go elsewhere which Dallas chose not to match. How is he relevant at all? He's the Lynch in the situation (Randle didn't unseat Murray; Michael didn't unseat Lynch).
What we do know is that for the past 2 years Michael played behind Turbin, a much less heralded RB (in terms of draft pedigree). Then this season when Turbin was injured and placed on IR, Seattle chose to sign a 34-YO RB and keep an UDFA over Michael... and it wasn't like they got back the 2nd rounder they invested.
On the Dallas side, we saw the team pass on resigning Murray, pass on drafting a RB, pass on signing a FA better than the perpetually injured McFadden. If their words don't express faith in Joseph Randle and their running game behind that OL, then their actions certainly do.
I'm not sure what I'm picking and choosing here. Is Michael physically talented? Yes. Is he more of a physical talent than Randle and McFadden? Yeah, he probably is. Does that mean he's a better RB than those guys? That's where we differ...
Seattle has proven over the past half decade to be one of the smartest organizations in football. Perhaps we should consider what they thought after seeing him in every meeting room and every practice over the past 2 years plus a third offseason? Maybe they know something we don't?
Ed Werder has long been one of the most plugged-in reporters covering Dallas. Here's what he said:
Last edited by a moderator:
