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Joseph Randle cut and suspended for four games


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I drafted him late as a rookie in a number of leagues and picked him up off waivers in others.

I'd be tempted to cash in now, but right now nobody is offering anything more than other lottery tickets with lower ceilings. Anybody seen any trades for him in their leagues lately?

No, I haven't been offered anything yet, everyone must be waiting for someone else to be traded or McFadden to take over.

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You could very well be correct about that. I personally don't think they will give any one RB more than 200 carries. I think they rode Murray's back because he was playing at such an incredible level that they had to. I just feel too many people are undervaluing Murray's talent and think that the cowboys philosophy is suddenly to feed a back 350 times. Outside of last year, I can't remember the last time they did that.

If they give Randle 300 carries, I can see him getting 1200 yards. I don't think he gets more than 200 carries and doesn't eclipse 1000 yards. But that's just my opinion. I'll certainly come back after the season and pat the back of the Randle supporters if I am wrong. I still think they add another RB and even if they designate a true "lead back", the carries end up getting split pretty evenly two or three ways

I think you have about as much of a chance of being right as I do. I think it's ultimately going to whether or not one back severely outshines the others. If that doesn't happen, then yes, rbbc is probably the way they go.

Maybe I'm giving McFadden too much credit. I just think he has the best chance at greatly outperforming the other 3 backs and creating that scenario where Dallas uses a bell cow back. If they trade for AP, Miller, or Michael, I definitely think that back takes over the Murray role.

Of the backs they currently have:

Joseph Randle: Slow just like Murray without as much burst or vision.

Lance Dunbar: Agile back that is more suited for 3rd down role.

Ryan Williams: He was supposed to be the entire package coming out of college but I'm not sure this guy will ever get it back.

Darren McFadden: Speed, Acceleration, Power ... the question is "will this guy come alive with the change of scenery"

Of those 4, I think the most likely Murray replacement at the moment is McFadden ... however, I would like to see them all in a pre-season game or two.

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You could very well be correct about that. I personally don't think they will give any one RB more than 200 carries. I think they rode Murray's back because he was playing at such an incredible level that they had to. I just feel too many people are undervaluing Murray's talent and think that the cowboys philosophy is suddenly to feed a back 350 times. Outside of last year, I can't remember the last time they did that.

If they give Randle 300 carries, I can see him getting 1200 yards. I don't think he gets more than 200 carries and doesn't eclipse 1000 yards. But that's just my opinion. I'll certainly come back after the season and pat the back of the Randle supporters if I am wrong. I still think they add another RB and even if they designate a true "lead back", the carries end up getting split pretty evenly two or three ways

I think you have about as much of a chance of being right as I do. I think it's ultimately going to whether or not one back severely outshines the others. If that doesn't happen, then yes, rbbc is probably the way they go.

Maybe I'm giving McFadden too much credit. I just think he has the best chance at greatly outperforming the other 3 backs and creating that scenario where Dallas uses a bell cow back. If they trade for AP, Miller, or Michael, I definitely think that back takes over the Murray role.

Of the backs they currently have:

Joseph Randle: Slow just like Murray without as much burst or vision.

Lance Dunbar: Agile back that is more suited for 3rd down role.

Ryan Williams: He was supposed to be the entire package coming out of college but I'm not sure this guy will ever get it back.

Darren McFadden: Speed, Acceleration, Power ... the question is "will this guy come alive with the change of scenery"

Of those 4, I think the most likely Murray replacement at the moment is McFadden ... however, I would like to see them all in a pre-season game or two.

Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

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You could very well be correct about that. I personally don't think they will give any one RB more than 200 carries. I think they rode Murray's back because he was playing at such an incredible level that they had to. I just feel too many people are undervaluing Murray's talent and think that the cowboys philosophy is suddenly to feed a back 350 times. Outside of last year, I can't remember the last time they did that.

If they give Randle 300 carries, I can see him getting 1200 yards. I don't think he gets more than 200 carries and doesn't eclipse 1000 yards. But that's just my opinion. I'll certainly come back after the season and pat the back of the Randle supporters if I am wrong. I still think they add another RB and even if they designate a true "lead back", the carries end up getting split pretty evenly two or three ways

I think you have about as much of a chance of being right as I do. I think it's ultimately going to whether or not one back severely outshines the others. If that doesn't happen, then yes, rbbc is probably the way they go.

Maybe I'm giving McFadden too much credit. I just think he has the best chance at greatly outperforming the other 3 backs and creating that scenario where Dallas uses a bell cow back. If they trade for AP, Miller, or Michael, I definitely think that back takes over the Murray role.

Of the backs they currently have:

Joseph Randle: Slow just like Murray without as much burst or vision.

Lance Dunbar: Agile back that is more suited for 3rd down role.

Ryan Williams: He was supposed to be the entire package coming out of college but I'm not sure this guy will ever get it back.

Darren McFadden: Speed, Acceleration, Power ... the question is "will this guy come alive with the change of scenery"

Of those 4, I think the most likely Murray replacement at the moment is McFadden ... however, I would like to see them all in a pre-season game or two.

Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

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You could very well be correct about that. I personally don't think they will give any one RB more than 200 carries. I think they rode Murray's back because he was playing at such an incredible level that they had to. I just feel too many people are undervaluing Murray's talent and think that the cowboys philosophy is suddenly to feed a back 350 times. Outside of last year, I can't remember the last time they did that.

If they give Randle 300 carries, I can see him getting 1200 yards. I don't think he gets more than 200 carries and doesn't eclipse 1000 yards. But that's just my opinion. I'll certainly come back after the season and pat the back of the Randle supporters if I am wrong. I still think they add another RB and even if they designate a true "lead back", the carries end up getting split pretty evenly two or three ways

I think you have about as much of a chance of being right as I do. I think it's ultimately going to whether or not one back severely outshines the others. If that doesn't happen, then yes, rbbc is probably the way they go.

Maybe I'm giving McFadden too much credit. I just think he has the best chance at greatly outperforming the other 3 backs and creating that scenario where Dallas uses a bell cow back. If they trade for AP, Miller, or Michael, I definitely think that back takes over the Murray role.

Of the backs they currently have:

Joseph Randle: Slow just like Murray without as much burst or vision.

Lance Dunbar: Agile back that is more suited for 3rd down role.

Ryan Williams: He was supposed to be the entire package coming out of college but I'm not sure this guy will ever get it back.

Darren McFadden: Speed, Acceleration, Power ... the question is "will this guy come alive with the change of scenery"

Of those 4, I think the most likely Murray replacement at the moment is McFadden ... however, I would like to see them all in a pre-season game or two.

Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

In a redraft as a Murray owner last year... after watching Randle and that serious burst I traded for him as my handcuff early on. It was evident.

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You could very well be correct about that. I personally don't think they will give any one RB more than 200 carries. I think they rode Murray's back because he was playing at such an incredible level that they had to. I just feel too many people are undervaluing Murray's talent and think that the cowboys philosophy is suddenly to feed a back 350 times. Outside of last year, I can't remember the last time they did that.

If they give Randle 300 carries, I can see him getting 1200 yards. I don't think he gets more than 200 carries and doesn't eclipse 1000 yards. But that's just my opinion. I'll certainly come back after the season and pat the back of the Randle supporters if I am wrong. I still think they add another RB and even if they designate a true "lead back", the carries end up getting split pretty evenly two or three ways

I think you have about as much of a chance of being right as I do. I think it's ultimately going to whether or not one back severely outshines the others. If that doesn't happen, then yes, rbbc is probably the way they go.

Maybe I'm giving McFadden too much credit. I just think he has the best chance at greatly outperforming the other 3 backs and creating that scenario where Dallas uses a bell cow back. If they trade for AP, Miller, or Michael, I definitely think that back takes over the Murray role.

Of the backs they currently have:

Joseph Randle: Slow just like Murray without as much burst or vision.

Lance Dunbar: Agile back that is more suited for 3rd down role.

Ryan Williams: He was supposed to be the entire package coming out of college but I'm not sure this guy will ever get it back.

Darren McFadden: Speed, Acceleration, Power ... the question is "will this guy come alive with the change of scenery"

Of those 4, I think the most likely Murray replacement at the moment is McFadden ... however, I would like to see them all in a pre-season game or two.

Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

You mean runs like this one with 1:40 left in a blowout and the opposing team had everyone including the hot dog vendor in the box and he still almost got run down by BOTH corners on an a dive play?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000450301/Joseph-Randle-63-yard-touchdown-run

Here's another one with a ridiculously wide open hole where is is completely untouched for the entire 38 yards due to blocking ... not speed.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/dallas-cowboys/0ap3000000410986/Randle-takes-off-for-a-38-yard-run

Here's a 40yarder against the Jags where he runs through another truck-sized hole and has to break tackles to get in the end zone.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/video/2014/11/09/joseph-randle-breaks-through-jags-defense-40-yard-td

I'm not saying he isn't a nice back. I like him and would be satisfied as a cowboys fan with him as our starter, but I don't see "shot out of a cannon" speed here. I see a guy that's very fresh due to his avg of 3.1 carries per game and comes in against a defense that has been getting the snot beat out of them by the dallas running game and breaks off a big run once in awhile due to wide open holes.

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Why does tempering expectations equal hate? No one is hating on Randle, but let's be real. What are the real chances that this 5th round talent with serious character issues eclipses 1200 yards? This situation screams rbbc. Maybe an injury or two will open the door to more opportunity but it will be harder for him to reach these forecasted numbers than you guys think.

Not a hater. Just a realist

I get the impression that it was his character issues, not his talent, that dropped him into the 5th round.

Those character issues have been well founded, imo.

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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. McFadden owners will see what they want. Randle owners will see what they want. We won't know until the season opener or when Joseph Randle separates from the pack!

I'm a Randle owner in two dynasty leagues. I don't own McFadden in a single league. Just trying to be objective and look at the facts.

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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

OK. Forget the worn down defense. The holes are still gaping holes. My point was to show that he's not busting off 40 yarders because of this "shot out of a cannon" speed he has.

But hey ... I'm betting he'll have plenty gaping holes to run through this year also. But so will McFadden ... and Dunbar ... and Ryan Williams. My point is not to say that Randle is no good. I've already said in this thread that I like him ... alot. I just don't think he's as good as Murray and I think the chances are good that he doesn't beat out McFadden.

I'd also like to see what Ryan Williams can do. He was a beast coming out of college and he hasn't had a regular season carry in over 2yrs after spending all last season on the cowboys practice squad. Maybe he's done. I really don't know because I haven't seen the guy play since being truly healthy after that horrific injury.

Ultimately though, we are trying to figure out who will be the feature back in Dallas this year. Ryan Williams seems unlikely. Dunbar averaged a paltry 3.4ypc in 2014 behind the same line that Murray and Randle were churning out big chunks of yards.

So, to me, it still comes down to McFadden and Randle if they don't bring someone else in. I'm just trying to figure out which one without making assumptions like Randle being some burning because he has multiple 40+ yard runs. You can see in my previous post that theory has some holes (pun intended).

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Joseph Randle is going to be a star.

Based off?

Jerry Jones.

Jerry Jones does not provide the talent.

Unless he is overly good with his medical staff. And their protocols. :P

And ftr I see 6 or 7 of the top 15 backs as being previously knocked based on talent "estimations".

Edited by BigSteelThrill
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Joseph Randle is going to be a star.

Based off?

Jerry Jones.

Jerry Jones does not provide the talent.

Unless he is overly good with his medical staff. And their protocols. :P

And ftr I see 6 or 7 of the top 15 backs as being previously knocked based on talent "estimations".

Not knocking his talent, just asking what are you basing him being a star on. Jerry Jones, talent estimations? Give me something to hang my hat on.

Dont say the Dallas OLine, because if thats the case McFadden, can do the same.

So, what has anyone seen that makes them believe a guy who makes bad life choices someone who will make good choices when he sees the holes?

Edited by VarsityBlues123
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Looks like Randle has the advantage out of the gate:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4649/darren-mcfadden

Joseph Randle has received a majority of first-team reps at this week's OTAs.
Randle, the incumbent, has his nose in front of this position battle. Darren McFadden did get some reps with the starters on Wednesday, but Randle still got more when Tony Romo was taking the snap. Although some have tried to prop McFadden up as a feature back candidate, his tape shows he's not capable of that and the Cowboys have hinted at using him as a "home-run hitting backup." We haven't heard of Ryan Williams or Lance Dunbar getting any first-team reps yet. May 28 - 8:39 AM
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I think Dallas will go with the hot hand approach. Not great for fantasy at all. They have hinted that they are going to use a shared approach to the run game and I believe them.

In ppr I think McFadden will be more consistent than Randle on a week to week basis as he is a better blocking back and receiving back than Randle is at this stage.

If Dallas gets down I am guessing we will see a lot more McFadden in games. I think Randle will lead Dallas in rushing attempts this season, but by how many I just don't know.

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Looks like Randle has the advantage out of the gate:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4649/darren-mcfadden

Joseph Randle has received a majority of first-team reps at this week's OTAs.
Randle, the incumbent, has his nose in front of this position battle. Darren McFadden did get some reps with the starters on Wednesday, but Randle still got more when Tony Romo was taking the snap. Although some have tried to prop McFadden up as a feature back candidate, his tape shows he's not capable of that and the Cowboys have hinted at using him as a "home-run hitting backup." We haven't heard of Ryan Williams or Lance Dunbar getting any first-team reps yet. May 28 - 8:39 AM

Depends what you want to believe:

This was wrote yesterday about Randle:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article22472703.html

He is in competition for the starting job along with free-agent signee Darren McFadden and long-shot Ryan Williams. Speedy Lance Dunbar is the only other veteran running back on the roster, but he is likely locked into a role as a third-down back, change-of-pace runner.

They are all getting chances with the ones and they are performing,” running backs coach Gary Brown said. “They know there is a job to be won, and they all want it. At the same time, they are going to work hard to get better. If they get better, the team gets better. We don’t have a winner right now. We will see what happens when the time comes.”

Randle, who has 105 carries for 507 yards and five touchdowns in two seasons, knows he will have to win the job.

We still have to compete for the starting job,” Randle said. “It’s still an open competition, and they make that clear every day that it’s still an open competition so once somebody wins that job if they get tired they come out. That’s why I’m working so hard every day in practice so that I don’t get tired.”

And later from the same paper but different writer:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article22478595.html

The Cowboys are dying for Randle — not free-agent signee Darren McFadden — to clearly grab the No. 1 running back spot, and be the guy to eat the remaining meat on that bone

In that second article I thought this was interesting when discussing Demarco:

Mr. Randle, on behalf of every single member of the media that cover the NFL, thank you for your candor. You not only filled countless columns but sports radio talk shows and hundreds of thousands of blogs.

All he stated was the dirty little secret floating around Valley Ranch last season.

Do not drop the hammer on Randle because what he said about Murray was the truth. Despite his historic season, Murray had a penchant for leaving yards on the field. Maybe hundreds of them. That was the knock on him. He didn’t have the burst, or the vision, to grab all of those available yards for what could have been an NFL record-breaking year.

Edited by menobrown
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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

We are talking about three runs here. Plus you need to weigh in the facts that Randle's legs were fresh, and defenses weren't exactly stacking the box to defend him in those situations. No way to compare apples for apples. There is not enough data available to accurately conclude why Randle had a better frequency of long runs last year. And we'll never know if Dunbar could have gotten the same amount of yards on each play. However, my gut tells me if Randle was so talented, they would have spelled Murray a little more than they did last year.

ETA- Forgot I wanted to mention that Murray had a long run of 15 or more yards in 14 of his 17 games last year. And a long of 20 or more yards in 10 of 17 games. Pretty sure he has some burst.

Edited by jmo87usc
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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

We are talking about three runs here. Plus you need to weigh in the facts that Randle's legs were fresh, and defenses weren't exactly stacking the box to defend him in those situations. No way to compare apples for apples. There is not enough data available to accurately conclude why Randle had a better frequency of long runs last year. And we'll never know if Dunbar could have gotten the same amount of yards on each play. However, my gut tells me if Randle was so talented, they would have spelled Murray a little more than they did last year.

ETA- Forgot I wanted to mention that Murray had a long run of 15 or more yards in 14 of his 17 games last year. And a long of 20 or more yards in 10 of 17 games. Pretty sure he has some burst.

That's actually exactly what I'm talking about. Those plays where Murray got 15-20 yards are the ones where Randle was getting 40+.

As a Murray dynasty owner enjoying the ride, I watched every Dallas game last year. Murray's lack of big long runs was very notable given the number of plays where he got to the second level with a full head of steam. Randle got to the 2nd level with a full head of steam four or five times and broke 3 really long runs out of it. Murray got to the 2nd level with a full head of steam probably 25-30 times and broke 3 really long runs out of it.

Again, I'm not saying that Randle is some kind of special back, but burst/speed were interesting issues to bring up when those are probably the only two places (other than ball security) where Randle is actually better than Murray, and frankly are areas where Murray does not excel. Many RBs don't get as many opportunities at the 2nd level in their entire career as Murray had last year and I think that is where Randle was talking about "meat on the bone". Given how often he got to the 2nd level untouched, Murray probably should have had more really long runs.

People often say that RB is devalued now because it depends so much on the line. Once you're in the second level, that's one of the areas where a RB's talent is really on display and where it's really all about them. Murray was not a standout in that area.

Of course, Murray excels in other areas. I have no idea if Randle can pick up the tough yards inside and grind out 8 yards where the line had blocked for 3 like Murray did, which will be necessary to hold down the starting job, but again that's a separate discussion.

Edited by FreeBaGeL
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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

We are talking about three runs here. Plus you need to weigh in the facts that Randle's legs were fresh, and defenses weren't exactly stacking the box to defend him in those situations. No way to compare apples for apples. There is not enough data available to accurately conclude why Randle had a better frequency of long runs last year. And we'll never know if Dunbar could have gotten the same amount of yards on each play. However, my gut tells me if Randle was so talented, they would have spelled Murray a little more than they did last year.

ETA- Forgot I wanted to mention that Murray had a long run of 15 or more yards in 14 of his 17 games last year. And a long of 20 or more yards in 10 of 17 games. Pretty sure he has some burst.

Bingo. I believe this was my original point in this thread and why I am not so quick to call him the starter. The guy got 3 touches a game to Murray's TWENTY EIGHT. On top of that they went out and brought in a big name free agent at that position. It just isn't adding up to me yet that this guy is going to be named the starter. However, some of the early news on him looks good. We'll see.

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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

We are talking about three runs here. Plus you need to weigh in the facts that Randle's legs were fresh, and defenses weren't exactly stacking the box to defend him in those situations. No way to compare apples for apples. There is not enough data available to accurately conclude why Randle had a better frequency of long runs last year. And we'll never know if Dunbar could have gotten the same amount of yards on each play. However, my gut tells me if Randle was so talented, they would have spelled Murray a little more than they did last year.

ETA- Forgot I wanted to mention that Murray had a long run of 15 or more yards in 14 of his 17 games last year. And a long of 20 or more yards in 10 of 17 games. Pretty sure he has some burst.

Bingo. I believe this was my original point in this thread and why I am not so quick to call him the starter. The guy got 3 touches a game to Murray's TWENTY EIGHT. On top of that they went out and brought in a big name free agent at that position. It just isn't adding up to me yet that this guy is going to be named the starter. However, some of the early news on him looks good. We'll see.

Again, several of those runs were early in the game, and fairly early in the season. Fresh legs matter, but c'mon, you're exaggerating here. And on top of that, exaggerating the extent to which they matter. It's not like Toby Gerhart was running around breaking off long runs at a 600% higher pace than Adrian Peterson because he was on fresher legs.

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Didn't Randle have like three 40+ yard runs last year on only 51 carries? Murray had three on 430 carries.

Even beyond the stats, Randle looked like he was being shot out of a cannon last year. No burst?

All three of those long runs were the result of gaping holes against defenses that Murray had worn down. Granted there will be more gaping holes with that O-line, but Randle didn't do anything special on those runs. He finished strong on the run against JAX in London, I'll give him that. But against the Seahawks and Redskins, pretty much any RB on the roster could have gotten those yards. Take those three runs away and that 6.7ypc becomes 4.25ypc.

One of the hardest things to do is forecast what a limited role player will do when he takes on a larger role. We have seen RBs put up big numbers with a small workload in the past. It is rare that they step into a larger role and continue that pace.

Then how come it took Murray 9 times as many carries to hit that many long runs? How come Lance Dunbar, who is a speed back, had none on about 60% of the carries that Randle got?

Let's save this "worn down defenses" stuff. One of the three runs came in the 1st quarter. Another of the three came 3 plays after the start of the 2nd half. Only one of the three came in the 4th quarter and that wasn't in a game where they ran a huge amount (Murray had 20 carries in that game).

I'm not saying Randle is some special back, but it was weird to see his speed and burst as the things that were criticized. Murray does not excel in either of those categories and, if anything, those are the only two spots where Randle can compete with him. Well, maybe ball security as well...

Randle had gaping holes on those runs. Murray had gaping holes on a lot more runs. He got 18-20 yards instead of the 40+ that Randle was getting. Of course, Murray got 7 yards in situations where Randle would have gotten 2, but that's not what's being discussed here.

We are talking about three runs here. Plus you need to weigh in the facts that Randle's legs were fresh, and defenses weren't exactly stacking the box to defend him in those situations. No way to compare apples for apples. There is not enough data available to accurately conclude why Randle had a better frequency of long runs last year. And we'll never know if Dunbar could have gotten the same amount of yards on each play. However, my gut tells me if Randle was so talented, they would have spelled Murray a little more than they did last year.

ETA- Forgot I wanted to mention that Murray had a long run of 15 or more yards in 14 of his 17 games last year. And a long of 20 or more yards in 10 of 17 games. Pretty sure he has some burst.

That's actually exactly what I'm talking about. Those plays where Murray got 15-20 yards are the ones where Randle was getting 40+.

As a Murray dynasty owner enjoying the ride, I watched every Dallas game last year. Murray's lack of big long runs was almost mind blowing given the number of plays where he got to the second level with a full head of steam. Randle got to the 2nd level with a full head of steam four or five times and broke 3 really long runs out of it. Murray got to the 2nd level with a full head of steam probably 25-30 times and broke 3 really long runs out of it.

Again, I'm not saying that Randle is some kind of special back, but burst/speed were interesting issues to bring up when those are probably the only two places (other than ball security) where Randle is actually better than Murray, and frankly are areas where Murray does not excel. Many RBs don't get as many opportunities at the 2nd level in their entire career as Murray had last year and I think that is where Randle was talking about "meat on the bone". Given how often he got to the 2nd level untouched, Murray should have had more really long runs.

Of course, Murray excels in other areas. I have no idea if Randle can pick up the tough yards inside and grind out 8 yards where the line had blocked for 3 like Murray did, which will be necessary to hold down the starting job, but again that's a separate discussion.

I gotcha. That I'm not sure of. Seems more like a long speed issue than a burst issue. I don't know what Randle's 20 or 60 yard shuttle time is. I know Murray's 20 yard shuttle wasn't anything impressive. Randle could very well be better in that area.

I will say I went back to 2013 and Murray was consistent with three 40+ yard runs on less carries, while Randle had zero even though he had three more carries than in 2014. Which again settles nothing really :shrug:

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Looks like Randle has the advantage out of the gate:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4649/darren-mcfadden

Joseph Randle has received a majority of first-team reps at this week's OTAs.
Randle, the incumbent, has his nose in front of this position battle. Darren McFadden did get some reps with the starters on Wednesday, but Randle still got more when Tony Romo was taking the snap. Although some have tried to prop McFadden up as a feature back candidate, his tape shows he's not capable of that and the Cowboys have hinted at using him as a "home-run hitting backup." We haven't heard of Ryan Williams or Lance Dunbar getting any first-team reps yet. May 28 - 8:39 AM

Depends what you want to believe:

This was wrote yesterday about Randle:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article22472703.html

He is in competition for the starting job along with free-agent signee Darren McFadden and long-shot Ryan Williams. Speedy Lance Dunbar is the only other veteran running back on the roster, but he is likely locked into a role as a third-down back, change-of-pace runner.

They are all getting chances with the ones and they are performing,” running backs coach Gary Brown said. “They know there is a job to be won, and they all want it. At the same time, they are going to work hard to get better. If they get better, the team gets better. We don’t have a winner right now. We will see what happens when the time comes.”

Randle, who has 105 carries for 507 yards and five touchdowns in two seasons, knows he will have to win the job.

We still have to compete for the starting job,” Randle said. “It’s still an open competition, and they make that clear every day that it’s still an open competition so once somebody wins that job if they get tired they come out. That’s why I’m working so hard every day in practice so that I don’t get tired.”

And later from the same paper but different writer:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article22478595.html

The Cowboys are dying for Randle — not free-agent signee Darren McFadden — to clearly grab the No. 1 running back spot, and be the guy to eat the remaining meat on that bone

In that second article I thought this was interesting when discussing Demarco:

Mr. Randle, on behalf of every single member of the media that cover the NFL, thank you for your candor. You not only filled countless columns but sports radio talk shows and hundreds of thousands of blogs.

All he stated was the dirty little secret floating around Valley Ranch last season.

Do not drop the hammer on Randle because what he said about Murray was the truth. Despite his historic season, Murray had a penchant for leaving yards on the field. Maybe hundreds of them. That was the knock on him. He didn’t have the burst, or the vision, to grab all of those available yards for what could have been an NFL record-breaking year.

He flatly said "out of the gate". And however small it is, its an advantage.

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Looks like Randle has the advantage out of the gate:

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4649/darren-mcfadden

Joseph Randle has received a majority of first-team reps at this week's OTAs.
Randle, the incumbent, has his nose in front of this position battle. Darren McFadden did get some reps with the starters on Wednesday, but Randle still got more when Tony Romo was taking the snap. Although some have tried to prop McFadden up as a feature back candidate, his tape shows he's not capable of that and the Cowboys have hinted at using him as a "home-run hitting backup." We haven't heard of Ryan Williams or Lance Dunbar getting any first-team reps yet. May 28 - 8:39 AM

Depends what you want to believe:

This was wrote yesterday about Randle:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/nfl/dallas-cowboys/cowboys-corner-blog/article22472703.html

He is in competition for the starting job along with free-agent signee Darren McFadden and long-shot Ryan Williams. Speedy Lance Dunbar is the only other veteran running back on the roster, but he is likely locked into a role as a third-down back, change-of-pace runner.

They are all getting chances with the ones and they are performing,” running backs coach Gary Brown said. “They know there is a job to be won, and they all want it. At the same time, they are going to work hard to get better. If they get better, the team gets better. We don’t have a winner right now. We will see what happens when the time comes.”

Randle, who has 105 carries for 507 yards and five touchdowns in two seasons, knows he will have to win the job.

We still have to compete for the starting job,” Randle said. “It’s still an open competition, and they make that clear every day that it’s still an open competition so once somebody wins that job if they get tired they come out. That’s why I’m working so hard every day in practice so that I don’t get tired.”

And later from the same paper but different writer:

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article22478595.html

The Cowboys are dying for Randle — not free-agent signee Darren McFadden — to clearly grab the No. 1 running back spot, and be the guy to eat the remaining meat on that bone

In that second article I thought this was interesting when discussing Demarco:

Mr. Randle, on behalf of every single member of the media that cover the NFL, thank you for your candor. You not only filled countless columns but sports radio talk shows and hundreds of thousands of blogs.

All he stated was the dirty little secret floating around Valley Ranch last season.

Do not drop the hammer on Randle because what he said about Murray was the truth. Despite his historic season, Murray had a penchant for leaving yards on the field. Maybe hundreds of them. That was the knock on him. He didn’t have the burst, or the vision, to grab all of those available yards for what could have been an NFL record-breaking year.

He flatly said "out of the gate". And however small it is, its an advantage.

And I think one of the most positive things I keep taking away from all of these stories from cowboys camp is that I have yet to hear any mention of a RBBC. I'm fairly certain that whoever it is that wins the job will get the lions share of the carries in the best rushing offense in the league. That alone really makes it worth going after both mcfadden and randle and simply ensuring you have a top 5 back this year.

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And I think one of the most positive things I keep taking away from all of these stories from cowboys camp is that I have yet to hear any mention of a RBBC. I'm fairly certain that whoever it is that wins the job will get the lions share of the carries in the best rushing offense in the league. That alone really makes it worth going after both mcfadden and randle and simply ensuring you have a top 5 back this year.

Yeah in post #228 the guys mentions shared/RBBC and was going to ask him where exactly has he been reading that... figured it wasnt worth the time.

Ill trust myself to keep reading and paying attention. I havent read anything from the team or coaches that it would be handled as such.

*Lord knows whoever is News blogging for FBGs is absolutely a propagandist who isn't paying attention to anything the team is actually doing.

Edited by BigSteelThrill
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The Ryan Williams injury news is not surprising. Anyone expecting him to be a factor is REACHING. Eddie Lacy has a better chance of being traded to the Cowboys than Ryan WIlliams ever becoming the feature back there. Unless Joseph Randle gets hurt AND McFadden goes down (the latter being highly likely), Ryan Williams starting is only a dream. So let's just stop. Seriously. It is between McFadden and Randle. Can we at least agree on that? Here is how I see it. Why NOT give Randle the first crack at the job? He is talented (or else I believe he wouldn't have been worth the trouble). Remember, the Cowboys know A LOT more than we do. Just because he wasn't carrying the ball 20 times per game doesn't mean he wasn't impressing during practice. Secondly, he is four years younger than McFadden with fewer injuries to boot and a better grasp of the offense. This McFadden thing reminds me of my son's first job. He applied for a position at Major Market but the manager told him she wasn't hiring at the time. She did, however, tell him to come back again the following weekend and ask again. Well, he returned five consecutive weekends asking for a job that didn't exist until one day she hired him. She wanted to know that he really wanted the job and would be dependable. Joseph Randle is the starter of the Dallas Cowboys. They are making him work for it. They want to see him hungry. If you have allowed yourself to talk yourself out of acquiring him at reasonable rates, HA! In the words of Fred Sanford... YA BIG DUMMY. The torch is being passed. Take hold before it's too late!!!! Lol.

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The Ryan Williams injury news is not surprising. Anyone expecting him to be a factor is REACHING. Eddie Lacy has a better chance of being traded to the Cowboys than Ryan WIlliams ever becoming the feature back there. Unless Joseph Randle gets hurt AND McFadden goes down (the latter being highly likely), Ryan Williams starting is only a dream. So let's just stop. Seriously. It is between McFadden and Randle. Can we at least agree on that? Here is how I see it. Why NOT give Randle the first crack at the job? He is talented (or else I believe he wouldn't have been worth the trouble). Remember, the Cowboys know A LOT more than we do. Just because he wasn't carrying the ball 20 times per game doesn't mean he wasn't impressing during practice. Secondly, he is four years younger than McFadden with fewer injuries to boot and a better grasp of the offense. This McFadden thing reminds me of my son's first job. He applied for a position at Major Market but the manager told him she wasn't hiring at the time. She did, however, tell him to come back again the following weekend and ask again. Well, he returned five consecutive weekends asking for a job that didn't exist until one day she hired him. She wanted to know that he really wanted the job and would be dependable. Joseph Randle is the starter of the Dallas Cowboys. They are making him work for it. They want to see him hungry. If you have allowed yourself to talk yourself out of acquiring him at reasonable rates, HA! In the words of Fred Sanford... YA BIG DUMMY. The torch is being passed. Take hold before it's too late!!!! Lol.

Coincidently Joseph Randle reminds me of my son. Constantly $h**s the bed, steals everyone's underwear and can't outrun me. Edited by jmo87usc
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The Ryan Williams injury news is not surprising. Anyone expecting him to be a factor is REACHING. Eddie Lacy has a better chance of being traded to the Cowboys than Ryan WIlliams ever becoming the feature back there. Unless Joseph Randle gets hurt AND McFadden goes down (the latter being highly likely), Ryan Williams starting is only a dream. So let's just stop. Seriously. It is between McFadden and Randle. Can we at least agree on that? Here is how I see it. Why NOT give Randle the first crack at the job? He is talented (or else I believe he wouldn't have been worth the trouble). Remember, the Cowboys know A LOT more than we do. Just because he wasn't carrying the ball 20 times per game doesn't mean he wasn't impressing during practice. Secondly, he is four years younger than McFadden with fewer injuries to boot and a better grasp of the offense. This McFadden thing reminds me of my son's first job. He applied for a position at Major Market but the manager told him she wasn't hiring at the time. She did, however, tell him to come back again the following weekend and ask again. Well, he returned five consecutive weekends asking for a job that didn't exist until one day she hired him. She wanted to know that he really wanted the job and would be dependable. Joseph Randle is the starter of the Dallas Cowboys. They are making him work for it. They want to see him hungry. If you have allowed yourself to talk yourself out of acquiring him at reasonable rates, HA! In the words of Fred Sanford... YA BIG DUMMY. The torch is being passed. Take hold before it's too late!!!! Lol.

Yes he may not make it but swelling after each practice this long after the injury seems odd. A bad surgery or is coming back from this that difficult?

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And I think one of the most positive things I keep taking away from all of these stories from cowboys camp is that I have yet to hear any mention of a RBBC. I'm fairly certain that whoever it is that wins the job will get the lions share of the carries in the best rushing offense in the league. That alone really makes it worth going after both mcfadden and randle and simply ensuring you have a top 5 back this year.

Yeah in post #228 the guys mentions shared/RBBC and was going to ask him where exactly has he been reading that... figured it wasnt worth the time.

Ill trust myself to keep reading and paying attention. I havent read anything from the team or coaches that it would be handled as such.

*Lord knows whoever is News blogging for FBGs is absolutely a propagandist who isn't paying attention to anything the team is actually doing.

They've mentioned it:

Some would prefer that the Cowboys continue running with a bell cow back rather than change to a committee approach. But despite Murray winning the rushing title in 2014, Jones suggested the Cowboys “may end up being more efficient and more explosive by doing our running back by committee rather than putting so much pressure on one back.”

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And I think one of the most positive things I keep taking away from all of these stories from cowboys camp is that I have yet to hear any mention of a RBBC. I'm fairly certain that whoever it is that wins the job will get the lions share of the carries in the best rushing offense in the league. That alone really makes it worth going after both mcfadden and randle and simply ensuring you have a top 5 back this year.

Yeah in post #228 the guys mentions shared/RBBC and was going to ask him where exactly has he been reading that... figured it wasnt worth the time.

Ill trust myself to keep reading and paying attention. I havent read anything from the team or coaches that it would be handled as such.

*Lord knows whoever is News blogging for FBGs is absolutely a propagandist who isn't paying attention to anything the team is actually doing.

They've mentioned it:

Some would prefer that the Cowboys continue running with a bell cow back rather than change to a committee approach. But despite Murray winning the rushing title in 2014, Jones suggested the Cowboys “may end up being more efficient and more explosive by doing our running back by committee rather than putting so much pressure on one back.”

Can you show me the complete Q&A with Jones and that line of thinking in its entirety? Like what does he prefer, or his coaches. Looking for complete context.

ty for the link btw .

Edited by BigSteelThrill
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And I think one of the most positive things I keep taking away from all of these stories from cowboys camp is that I have yet to hear any mention of a RBBC. I'm fairly certain that whoever it is that wins the job will get the lions share of the carries in the best rushing offense in the league. That alone really makes it worth going after both mcfadden and randle and simply ensuring you have a top 5 back this year.

Yeah in post #228 the guys mentions shared/RBBC and was going to ask him where exactly has he been reading that... figured it wasnt worth the time.

Ill trust myself to keep reading and paying attention. I havent read anything from the team or coaches that it would be handled as such.

*Lord knows whoever is News blogging for FBGs is absolutely a propagandist who isn't paying attention to anything the team is actually doing.

They've mentioned it:

Some would prefer that the Cowboys continue running with a bell cow back rather than change to a committee approach. But despite Murray winning the rushing title in 2014, Jones suggested the Cowboys “may end up being more efficient and more explosive by doing our running back by committee rather than putting so much pressure on one back.”

Can you show me the complete Q&A with Jones and that line of thinking in its entirety? Like what does he prefer, or his coaches. Looking for complete context.

ty for the link btw .

It was on a conference call with season ticket holders, so I don't have anything else besides the link. They have mentioned it a couple of times though, I put links in another thread, but yeah, upgrade! Here's another one, which has this quote as well:

“At the end of the day this league, more and more, is becoming a league where teams use multiple running backs. Last year I think was inordinate, starting with the fact that DeMarco had an amazing season, an All-Pro season,” he said. “It very well could be that this year you’ll see a lot more of whatever three combinations of backs that we keep – you certainly could see a lot more of the second and third running back than you did last year.”

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