KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I thought it was a done deal that they were getting a trilogy?Really really hope these choads don't actually get Star Wars
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Game of Thrones, tv only, books don't exist, no backstory...NERDS already ruining a series that hasn't started (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter belljr
- Start date
comfortably numb
Footballguy
So how do the bets of "who sits on the iron throne at the conclusion of episode 6" grade?
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
I didn't have a desired end to season 8. I just wanted them to tell me a complete story that was thought out and had depth to it rather than giving me the Cliff's Notes version of everything, no matter where they decided to take it.
We lost Varys for two seasons, but then he's suddenly writing letters again. To whom? Why wasn't he doing this kind of thing all along? It spawned tons of great material we lost. When Tywin was writing letters, we got a Red Wedding payoff. Back when Varys was relevant, we got great dialogue and politics with him, Tyrion and Littlefinger. Now it's just 5 minutes of desperation leading nowhere.
Tyrion went from "a mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone" to the biggest idiot in Westeros. Why? Dany's army was too big when she sailed across the sea and they needed it to not be a slaughter. That's poor planning and writing, and the character suffered because of it.
In one episode Jaime went from deciding to live in the North, which he hates, to going back to his sister. Give me something showing him trying to be happy and make a life of it, but struggling to make it work. Give me a progression. Tell me his story. That's what this show did incredibly well in the early seasons.
Jon and Dany went from adversarial to boatsex to madly in love in about 5 minutes, all completely off screen.
The biggest secret in this story was Jon's parentage. The scene where Jon finds out from Sam was pretty great. We get the cutaway when his siblingcousins find out? That's a terrible decision.
Did you know Euron has a great backstory? He's a complete badass, who has seen parts of the world nobody else in Westeros dreams of visiting. He plays mind games at a level beyond Ramsay and is as shrewd as Tywin. Instead of developing a great villain, they handed us a book of knock knock jokes.
Hell, even in this last episode, we missed out on a reunion of Sansa and Sweetrobin that could have paid off some of those early season scenes. Edmure just re-appears out of nowhere? Jaime was headed north. He couldn't have grabbed Edmure on the way to help fight with his nieces and nephews? Could have been an "in" when he got to Winterfell, too.
Hey, did you know there's a new Prince of Dorn?
That's off the top of my head. But things like this are where the "It's rushed" complaints come from. We went from scheming and strategy and clever to **** jokes and last action hero scenes. In a way, it almost feels like the increased budget allowed them to rely less on their writing ability.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
no, we want Tyrion to have suffered the same fate as Varys - he should've never made it to KL in the first place.
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
And don't give me detailed background on #### you don't intend to use. I'm fine that they left things from the books out of the story. That makes sense and was necessary. But don't then incorporate things you don't intend to use at all.
Mel hammered the Prince That Was Promised prophecy from the time we first see her on screen. I believe there were even references to it into Season 7. But you knew Arya was killing the NK 3 years ago? Then find a way to get away from it at that point. Don't just leave it hanging at the end.
Darth Vader: If you only knew the power of The Dark Side! Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke Skywalker: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No. I am your father.
Luke Skywalker: No... that's not true! That's impossible!
Darth Vader: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Luke Skywalker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOO!
Then Luke kills the Emperor, the death star 2 explodes killing Vader, and at the end ghost yoda, obi-wan, and anakin appear without another word of parentage ever being spoken.
"Hey, what was up with that whole Vader being Luke's father thing? They never mentioned it again and it contributed nothing to the outcome of the movie."
Mel hammered the Prince That Was Promised prophecy from the time we first see her on screen. I believe there were even references to it into Season 7. But you knew Arya was killing the NK 3 years ago? Then find a way to get away from it at that point. Don't just leave it hanging at the end.
Darth Vader: If you only knew the power of The Dark Side! Obi-Wan never told you what happened to your father.
Luke Skywalker: He told me enough! He told me you killed him!
Darth Vader: No. I am your father.
Luke Skywalker: No... that's not true! That's impossible!
Darth Vader: Search your feelings. You know it to be true.
Luke Skywalker: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOO!
Then Luke kills the Emperor, the death star 2 explodes killing Vader, and at the end ghost yoda, obi-wan, and anakin appear without another word of parentage ever being spoken.
"Hey, what was up with that whole Vader being Luke's father thing? They never mentioned it again and it contributed nothing to the outcome of the movie."
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Charlie Steiner
Footballguy
In no particular order:
--Sansa whining about how much the North has lost in the war was a tone deaf statement to make in King's Landing. Made me see her as still the petulant child she was when she was looking forward to marrying Joffrey.
--Arya is now part Dora the Explorer and part Anthony Bourdain. We knew it was coming, I just didn't like seeing her on a ship with the house Stark emblem on the sail. I guess she's done trying to stay low-profile...?
--Wanted to see more 'build-up' to Tyrion weeping for his siblings. He spent the entire story at serious odds with Cersei, so I would have liked to see him struggle a little more with letting go of all those years of animosity.
--Speaking of the gravity of the moment, the scene with Jon and Drogon felt incomplete, like there was still some sort of communication between them that was missing. That would probably have been too much of a strain on Kit Harrington's acting ability, however.
--Didn't like Bronn just showing up for the small council meeting with no mention of the last time we saw him and Tyrion. No doubt they had met up before, but they were always good for quality screen time together, and resolving their spat would have been worth seeing. At the very least, after Tyrion asked Bronn if the realm's debt to Highgarden was settled, I would have liked to see Tyrion reach out and punch Bronn in the nose to square their personal beef.
--Sansa whining about how much the North has lost in the war was a tone deaf statement to make in King's Landing. Made me see her as still the petulant child she was when she was looking forward to marrying Joffrey.
--Arya is now part Dora the Explorer and part Anthony Bourdain. We knew it was coming, I just didn't like seeing her on a ship with the house Stark emblem on the sail. I guess she's done trying to stay low-profile...?
--Wanted to see more 'build-up' to Tyrion weeping for his siblings. He spent the entire story at serious odds with Cersei, so I would have liked to see him struggle a little more with letting go of all those years of animosity.
--Speaking of the gravity of the moment, the scene with Jon and Drogon felt incomplete, like there was still some sort of communication between them that was missing. That would probably have been too much of a strain on Kit Harrington's acting ability, however.
--Didn't like Bronn just showing up for the small council meeting with no mention of the last time we saw him and Tyrion. No doubt they had met up before, but they were always good for quality screen time together, and resolving their spat would have been worth seeing. At the very least, after Tyrion asked Bronn if the realm's debt to Highgarden was settled, I would have liked to see Tyrion reach out and punch Bronn in the nose to square their personal beef.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
I'm not understanding the Jamie hate. Cersei's his drug. He's an addict. It's that simple. The character in as much beat us over the head with what he wanted in life for 8 seasons.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Except for that one episode where he didn't and then changed his mind back, both with no real explanation
Ilov80s
Footballguy
That’s the next show they are doing, it’s called Confederacy. At least they do have 2 black writers working with them but given how they have handled diversity and violence in GoT, I can understand why there has been a huge backlash against it and some have wondered if this is going to be slavery fan fiction.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
so, lemme get this straight - Varys is summarily disposed of via "DRACARYS!", yet, her hand ... a man who was in much higher standing/regard, betrays her on the eve of her greatest triumph - effectively giving Dany's ONE TRUE NEMESIS (Cersei) a possible escape route, but, after his capture he is relegated to the cleaning closet of the Red Keep rather than the business end of Drogon.
got it.
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Isn't that what addicts do though? They'll tell you they've changed. They'll tell you they've kicked it. Then they, without any real explanation, fall back into it.
jplvr
Footballguy
I thought that got cancelled. The next thing they're going to do which will be banned in Alabama is Star Wars.
El Floppo
Footballguy
I missed whatever the argument was originally about.
but yeah- it was clearly done so that tyrion could find them and set up the rest of his reactions. but to me- is weak writing.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
The GOT petition is stupid but the series finale is even dumber. 
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
How is this dumb? Why would anyone not want Jon to talk to her. They’re on the same side.
shadyridr
Footballguy
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otb_lifer
Footballguy
Greyworm saw the look of disgust on Jon's face during the siege of KL last week, then knocked heads this week over the slaughter of the surrendered Lannister troops ... Greyworm was a pretty one dimensional character, so i would've expected him to extremely wary of allowing Snow that private time.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
He set jamie free....i doubt she knows about the cersei escape plan.....tyrion wasnt dying...he jon n arya were safe survival bet....
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Pipes
Footballguy
That's just trying to cram way too much into the last season though. The lead up to the final battle should've been multiple episodes. Same with the aftermath.I missed whatever the argument was originally about.
but yeah- it was clearly done so that tyrion could find them and set up the rest of his reactions. but to me- is weak writing.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
And if they would have shown all that you guys would be complaining about how boring it was.
otb_lifer
Footballguy
yeah - i hear ya, Bike ... and i get why it played out (hell, i took the Bran/Tyrion exacta in the GoT odds thread)
just felt hack and sloppy to me.
funny thing? i'll survive
Bob Sacamano
Footballguy
Don't mean to demean **** jokes here.
Abrantes
Footballguy
Show Tyrion finding a massive pile of rubble. Show him moving a brick or two. Cut away to a different scene. Cut back to Tyrion, exhausted, having made some headway but still digging through the pile, finally spotting Jaime's hand.
Not that hard.
Edit: For the record, I didn't mind the scene at all, but "what, you want us to spend a half hour watching him dig?" is a silly argument.
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
Plus Drogon was guarding her. Just so happens Jon is the one person Drogon would let by and that was after a bunch of sniffs. That part I don’t have a problem with. It’s everything after Drogon incinerates the Iron Throne. They should have just ended it there.
need2know
Footballguy
it sounds dumb and not worth the risk imo. with all the possible stuff they could do they choose that? why?
El Floppo
Footballguy
didn't cersei's guards take his sword and scabbard before Jon goes in to see her? you could quibble that he snuck a dagger past them somehow... but it doesn't bother me that they let him in to see dany.
and I thought that part of the story was well done- who's going to stop her at this point... either Jon, or Arya in disguise.
for me, I actually started to buy into her story at the end- she wasn't ####### around with breaking the wheel... she was going to take down every form of leadership everywhere she could reach. of course, she was ignoring herself- which Jon touched on- and was the obvious flaw in her plan. but at least in that last scene with her, and the scene with tyrion, you could Jon wrapping his head around the idea... which made me start to wonder too.
sho nuff
Footballguy
No. I enjoyed when they had smart dialog on the show.
Do you think this season was well done and well written?
El Floppo
Footballguy
yep.
and I hear this argument in TWD thread... oh- it's about zombies, why should anything make sense. oh- it's about dragons and ####, why should the rest of it make any sense. because they had it all make complete sense for so long and then just gave up. that's what disappoints me the most- I love fantasy; but like any other genre fantasy can be absolute crap if not written well in a way that makes sense- from a social-emotional sense to a scientific sense. GoT laid it all down so incredibly well- these "little" moments in the last season that break from all of that add up to a genuine and glaring disappointment. my 2c.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Im son confused. Tyrion is a male.
I didn't think it was dumb that Jon was able to speak with Dany. I thought it was dumb she was virtually unguarded.
I thought it was dumb that the guards would let Jon speak to Tyrion, a traitor (according to Dany).
Ilov80s
Footballguy
No idea. The impression I’ve gotten from them is that they are pretty smarmy so I’m sure it’s their arrogance. They want to do it and think they know best. It probably would have been smarter to allow the black writers to take the lead and be the face of the show and announcement.
El Floppo
Footballguy
helloexactly.
it's called writing and editing. not that hard to convey the story in a way that works better and is consistent with things that aren't fantasy dragons...like gravity.
Mile High
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I don't understand the first part.
second- I mentioned that her guards essentially frisked him outside of the throne room. I guess you were expecting guards to be standing around her too? that doesn't bother me that they weren't.
yeah... I guess the guards should know better. but he's basically her boyfriend, and the king of the north... he kinda outranks them. so again, no real problem for me.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes and S1 ended with dragons being born. They let us know that it is fantasy and not pure medieval politics but there is no doubt the frequency and intensity of those fantasy elements ramped up enormously. For some that’s a good thing, for others it was a turnoff.
Ditkaless Wonders
Footballguy
Montage. A rubble digging montage. It literally was crying out for montage'ing.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Way better than sopranos ending.....amirite???
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
I've been emotionally attached the show- and all the characters. when the writing went weak- and yes, these are little things, but they all add up- it created a detachment from the show and characters for me. still a big fan of the over-all show, but this last season and into last season felt like too many poorly written moments that hadn't been there as obviously in previous seasons. dropped the overall level for me.
writing. editing. *solved*
