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Right so jamie breaks him out of jail and instead of going right to the guy waiting outside to help him escape,he takes a sneaky back door that goes to the sleeping chambers of the man who had just ordered him executed. Why else do you think he was there? Just dropped in to say goodbye?

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Right so jamie breaks him out of jail and instead of going right to the guy waiting outside to help him escape,he takes a sneaky back door that goes to the sleeping chambers of the man who had just ordered him executed. Why else do you think he was there? Just dropped in to say goodbye?

that is the $1,000,000 question. This imp was gonna take on Tywin in a hand to hand combat? He walked in without a weapon. Doesn't add up. Tyrion has not been like the other characters who think blood first. Sentiment, see the father for one last time, I dunno. It just seems unlikely for the pre-murder-Shea Tyrion.

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Right so jamie breaks him out of jail and instead of going right to the guy waiting outside to help him escape,he takes a sneaky back door that goes to the sleeping chambers of the man who had just ordered him executed. Why else do you think he was there? Just dropped in to say goodbye?

that is the $1,000,000 question. This imp was gonna take on Tywin in a hand to hand combat? He walked in without a weapon. Doesn't add up. Tyrion has not been like the other characters who think blood first. Sentiment, see the father for one last time, I dunno. It just seems unlikely for the pre-murder-Shea Tyrion.

More like the $1 question. Tyrion was raging and went to kill Tywin. He probably hoped he'd catch him unexpectedly and in bed, but I'm sure he was making it up as he went along. Tyrion had had enough of Tywin and definitely wanted blood.

Edited by James Daulton
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Right so jamie breaks him out of jail and instead of going right to the guy waiting outside to help him escape,he takes a sneaky back door that goes to the sleeping chambers of the man who had just ordered him executed. Why else do you think he was there? Just dropped in to say goodbye?

that is the $1,000,000 question. This imp was gonna take on Tywin in a hand to hand combat? He walked in without a weapon. Doesn't add up. Tyrion has not been like the other characters who think blood first. Sentiment, see the father for one last time, I dunno. It just seems unlikely for the pre-murder-Shea Tyrion.

More like the $1 question. Tyrion was raging and went to kill Tywin. He probably hoped he'd catch him unexpectedly and in bed, but I'm sure he was making it up as he went along. Tyrion had had enough of Tywin and definitely wanted blood.

then I don't think the show did a great job of portraying this. I don't think tyrion normally would go to kill his father. he didn't have a look of murder until shae, and him using "whore".

I think even tyrion knows tywin is a stabilizer in the family, and didn't have killing intent at first. that puts cersei in power.

went up to catch him off guard and confront him? absolutely. went up specifically to kill him? I don't think that is clear.

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Can someone explain how bran controlling hodor makes hodor a skilled fighter when bran was never a skilled fighter?

While Bran may not be a skilled fighter, Hodor's hodorness (brute strength) more than makes up for a lack of skill. When you get him coming down on you with a heavy weapon, you'll feel it.

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Right so jamie breaks him out of jail and instead of going right to the guy waiting outside to help him escape,he takes a sneaky back door that goes to the sleeping chambers of the man who had just ordered him executed. Why else do you think he was there? Just dropped in to say goodbye?

that is the $1,000,000 question. This imp was gonna take on Tywin in a hand to hand combat? He walked in without a weapon. Doesn't add up. Tyrion has not been like the other characters who think blood first. Sentiment, see the father for one last time, I dunno. It just seems unlikely for the pre-murder-Shea Tyrion.

More like the $1 question. Tyrion was raging and went to kill Tywin. He probably hoped he'd catch him unexpectedly and in bed, but I'm sure he was making it up as he went along. Tyrion had had enough of Tywin and definitely wanted blood.

then I don't think the show did a great job of portraying this. I don't think tyrion normally would go to kill his father. he didn't have a look of murder until shae, and him using "whore".

I think even tyrion knows tywin is a stabilizer in the family, and didn't have killing intent at first. that puts cersei in power.

went up to catch him off guard and confront him? absolutely. went up specifically to kill him? I don't think that is clear.

I think the rant at the end of the trial showed how Tyrion had basically snapped, and the extent of the hatred he felt for his father and sister.

Anyway, I think it's a moot point since obviously seeing Shae with Tywin would have pushed him over the edge no matter what.

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Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

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Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

Yeah, only thing that really makes sense. Like others said he had no weapon, its not like he's gonna beat Tywin hand to hand, he could barely take Shae. He needed to know whether Tywin really despised him that much, enough to have him killed. It was worth his life to know i guess.

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Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

Yeah, only thing that really makes sense. Like others said he had no weapon, its not like he's gonna beat Tywin hand to hand, he could barely take Shae. He needed to know whether Tywin really despised him that much, enough to have him killed. It was worth his life to know i guess.

you guys are on the money it turns out. He just needed to know, the beetles analogy makes a lot of sense. Straight from the horse's mouth on Entertainment Weekly:

We spoke with both actors about the finale scene very briefly last year. Dinklage said Tyrion went up to confront his father because he “can’t leave without some closure.”

“He doesn’t know what’s going to happen,” added Dinklage. “He understands the force that Tywin is, so I think he’s smart enough to know that there are consequences for going up there. But he can’t leave without something. He needs that closure. No matter what it is, he needs something. Maybe he’s going to get killed, but he just can’t leave yet.”

Edited by Pigskin Fanatic
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Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

:yes:

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Might be. He did look meaningfully at the crossbow after killing shae, as though he suddenly had an idea. But it doesn't make much sense for him to go there in the first place no matter what his intentions. It was late, I think he planned to kill tywin in his sleep.

Maybe he just wanted to take a nap and went there knowing that the bed would be open since this was his dad's nightly "take care of business" time. He hadn't slept in a bed in a long time, after all.

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Also, I hope you jerks are starting to respect Stannis. He is the rightful king. Tommen needs to step down.

Well, actually whomever marries Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful king. Robert Baratheon usurped the Throne, but the true, rightful heir is Daenerys.

but the targaeryns stole the throne by conquering westeros with dragons

Westeros was 7 different kingdoms. The Targaryen's united (or forced) the kingdoms to be ruled by 1 King.

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Also, I hope you jerks are starting to respect Stannis. He is the rightful king. Tommen needs to step down.

Well, actually whomever marries Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful king. Robert Baratheon usurped the Throne, but the true, rightful heir is Daenerys.

She has a claim, but not much of one anymore. When your entire family is overthrown and massacred, that kind of puts a wrap on your dynasty.

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Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

:yes:

If this was the case, what was his plan after "confronting" daddy? Just waltz out? Give himself up? Makes no sense as Tywin would have had him locked up immediately.

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Tyrion killed tywins wife. Tywin threatened to kill the love of tyrions life, stole her, made her betray him by testifying against him in the cruellest way, then started sleeping with her. A lannister pays his debts, I suppose.

Tyrion knew none of this, but he clearly planned on killing tywin immediately on his escape. Then when he saw shae there, he realized that he had to kill the woman who had tried to have him killed, before killing, bullying and humiliating the man who had bullied, humiliated and tried to kill him. Another lannister repaying debts.

Cersei chose her allegiance to tywin and joffrey over a one handed jamie when he returned. But when joffrey died, and tywin asked her to do more than she could take, she spurned her father and told him the truth about jamie and tommen. She was still choosing family over all else, just a different branch of the family tree.

Jamie is the only one who protected tyrion, protected joffrey as kings guard, loved his sister in every wah, and also agreed to his fathers demand that he go back to casterly rock and sire children with the last name lannister. He was and still is the true head of this disfunctional family. He seems like the logical choice as hand of the king, which is funny because he only has one hand.

Tommen is the king, and yet his one real act as king was to recuse himself from the tyrion trial. He doesn't know that jamie is his father, and he doesn't seem to mind the idea of banging his dead brothers widow. So I guess he inherited the ####ed up gene pretty good.

Margaery has the love of the people and she has the tyrell family money, but she has no claim to the throne or tommen except if cersei keeps up her end of the bargain they struck a couple episodes ago. Keeping bargains isn't really cerseis thing, but she needs the tyrell money, and margaery wants the throne, so negotiations should be ongoing. But if cersei ever figures out that it was grandma tyrell who offed joffrey, that could be bad, bad news.

Sir flower is now a free agent, and theres a recent vacancy in the bisexual swordsmen position in kings landing, so expect him to make a run at tommen. Just kidding, tim.

Brienne is pretty well worthless. arya doesn't want her, so now she's looking for sansa, but sansa has already picked her poison, too. So she's just roaming the countryside with her donkeyhogged serf acting serious and fighting with the best swordsmen in westeros.

Littlefinger offered to marry his high school crush's sister in return for her murdering jon arryn which brought ned stark to the capital, then worked with cersei to get robert killed, so ned would be named temporary guardian of the realm, and littlefinger could nakedly betray him so joffrey would kill him. Littlefinger also pushed for the murder of dany, before she became powerful, and arranged the murder of joffrey. Now he has sansa stark, plus a lot of money and whores. So, basically what tyrion had a season ago.

Jon snow is like the opposite of bo jackson.

Arya has mentored with ned stark, the first sword of bravos, tywin lannister, the assassin who killed three people for her, and the hound, but she blew off brienne in favor of a trip to bravos for some more murder training. Probably for the best as I don't think she has the size to fight like brienne.

Can someone explain how bran controlling hodor makes hodor a skilled fighter when bran was never a skilled fighter?

Please tell me that that little girl wasn't throwing lightning bolts and fireballs and that those were just molotov cocktails or grenades or something.

What was the deal with the little girl from the first scene in s1e1 with the bright blue eyes?

Mance seems like a pretty reasonable dude. Must be pretty loud though because he says enough bloodhed and everyone just stops fighting.

The girl from the first episode was a wildling that was killed and came back as a zombie.

As for Bran worging into Hodor and being able to beat ### probably has something to do with the fact that he is the size of Andre the Giant. Hodor can't do it himself because he is obviously slow and frightens very easily.

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Think he had to know if his father really had plans on killing him, especially after Jamie previously bargained for his release to the wall. Once he saw Shae in the bed he knew Daddy really could give 2 ####s about him.

I think this is an accurate take. It relates back to the beetle chat scene where Tyrion just had to know why his cousin was so intent on smashing beetles - he just had to know why his dad cared so little for him, or even hated him so much that Tywin would condemn Tyrion to death based solely on circumstantial evidence.

:yes:

If this was the case, what was his plan after "confronting" daddy? Just waltz out? Give himself up? Makes no sense as Tywin would have had him locked up immediately.

5 mins prior, he thought he was going to die the next day. possible he had 0 clue what would happen when he went there, but it was worth the risk knowing. worst case he was back where he was 5 mins ago. best case he confronts dad and still gets out.

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Also, I hope you jerks are starting to respect Stannis. He is the rightful king. Tommen needs to step down.

Well, actually whomever marries Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful king. Robert Baratheon usurped the Throne, but the true, rightful heir is Daenerys.

I have a theory on this that I'm sure is right. As a disclaimer I read the first 3 books. This season surpassed my knowledge from the books as it dealt a lot of Book 4. As far as I can remember from 10 years ago when I read them, there is only one big reveal in the first 3 books that has not been exposed in the show and it doesn't concern my theory at all.

So, with that disclosure here is my theory, which is based on more TV knowledge than book knowledge. I'm so sure that I'm mostly right that I encourage you not to read it if you want to avoid spoilers, even though I have no actual knowledge that I am.

I believe that Jon Snow is actually the child of Robert. Ned just came back from the South with him. No explanation of the mother and Ned never talked about her. Knowing how honorable Ned is, I doubt he really cheated on his wife and that he was actually preventing the child. This is strengthened by the way the show plays up Jon's hair - curly, black mane - exactly what they said all Baratheons have. We also know that Robert loved Ned's sister. I suspect that he got her pregnant and she never told him. Ned, to protect his sister's honor and not abandon the child of his sister and his best friend took the kid and called him his own bastard Jon marrying Daenerys would satisfy the royal lineage issues and tie things up with a nice neat bow - except for that whole Night's Watch thing.

Again, none of that knowledge is directly from the books. Just my observations from the show and a long history of being able to intuit where plots are headed.

Edited by Drifter
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Also, I hope you jerks are starting to respect Stannis. He is the rightful king. Tommen needs to step down.

Well, actually whomever marries Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful king. Robert Baratheon usurped the Throne, but the true, rightful heir is Daenerys.

I have a theory on this that I'm sure is right. As a disclaimer I read the first 3 books. This season surpassed my knowledge from the books as it dealt a lot of Book 4. As far as I can remember from 10 years ago when I read them, there is only one big reveal in the first 3 books that has not been exposed in the show and it doesn't concern my theory at all.

So, with that disclosure here is my theory, which is based on more TV knowledge than book knowledge. I'm so sure that I'm mostly right that I encourage you not to read it if you want to avoid spoilers, even though I have no actual knowledge that I am.

I believe that Jon Snow is actually the child of Robert. Ned just came back from the South with him. No explanation of the mother and Ned never talked about her. Knowing how honorable Ned is, I doubt he really cheated on his wife and that he was actually preventing the child. This is strengthened by the way the show plays up Jon's hair - curly, black mane - exactly what they said all Baratheons have. We also know that Robert loved Ned's sister. I suspect that he got her pregnant and she never told him. Ned, to protect his sister's honor and not abandon the child of his sister and his best friend took the kid and called him his own bastard Jon marrying Daenerys would satisfy the royal lineage issues and tie things up with a nice neat bow - except for that whole Night's Watch thing.

Again, none of that knowledge is directly from the books. Just my observations from the show and a long history of being able to intuit where plots are headed.

This is a really, really solid theory.

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I wonder if the dots between Shae and Tywin will ever be connected or if we will just be left to wonder.

Like father, like son, I suppose.

What dots?

Why was shae naked in Tywin's bed? For how long was Tywin ####### whores and being the biggest hypocrite in Westeros?

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Also, I hope you jerks are starting to respect Stannis. He is the rightful king. Tommen needs to step down.

Well, actually whomever marries Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful king. Robert Baratheon usurped the Throne, but the true, rightful heir is Daenerys.

She has a claim, but not much of one anymore. When your entire family is overthrown and massacred, that kind of puts a wrap on your dynasty.
Unless you show up with 3 dragons and an army and take it back.
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Also, I hope you jerks are starting to respect Stannis. He is the rightful king. Tommen needs to step down.

Well, actually whomever marries Daenerys Targaryen is the rightful king. Robert Baratheon usurped the Throne, but the true, rightful heir is Daenerys.

I have a theory on this that I'm sure is right. As a disclaimer I read the first 3 books. This season surpassed my knowledge from the books as it dealt a lot of Book 4. As far as I can remember from 10 years ago when I read them, there is only one big reveal in the first 3 books that has not been exposed in the show and it doesn't concern my theory at all.

So, with that disclosure here is my theory, which is based on more TV knowledge than book knowledge. I'm so sure that I'm mostly right that I encourage you not to read it if you want to avoid spoilers, even though I have no actual knowledge that I am.

I believe that Jon Snow is actually the child of Robert. Ned just came back from the South with him. No explanation of the mother and Ned never talked about her. Knowing how honorable Ned is, I doubt he really cheated on his wife and that he was actually preventing the child. This is strengthened by the way the show plays up Jon's hair - curly, black mane - exactly what they said all Baratheons have. We also know that Robert loved Ned's sister. I suspect that he got her pregnant and she never told him. Ned, to protect his sister's honor and not abandon the child of his sister and his best friend took the kid and called him his own bastard Jon marrying Daenerys would satisfy the royal lineage issues and tie things up with a nice neat bow - except for that whole Night's Watch thing.

Again, none of that knowledge is directly from the books. Just my observations from the show and a long history of being able to intuit where plots are headed.

This is a really, really solid theory.

Especially now that I look back

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Something I think people are overlooking is what a dangerous spot Danys is in. After she lost Khal Drogo and her child she had two things. Ser Jorah and her Dragons. Now have both been cast away by her. For the first time she seems in over her head.

:confused:

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

Perhaps she's waiting for season 5.

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

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Something I think people are overlooking is what a dangerous spot Danys is in. After she lost Khal Drogo and her child she had two things. Ser Jorah and her Dragons. Now have both been cast away by her. For the first time she seems in over her head.

:confused:

no doubt. she still has barriston, grey worm, and her boy toy she sent back to the other city. its not like she got rid of the dragons- she locked them up so they cant eat children.

that said, she does seem quite content to linger across the sea.

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

The news will travel fast.

ETA- She's already known for some time that Robert is dead and that there's a boy king, and that his rule is being disputed. Once the dragons were big enough and she had the Unsullied, that should have been enough.

Edited by timschochet
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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

The news will travel fast.

ETA- She's already known for some time that Robert is dead and that there's a boy king, and that his rule is being disputed. Once the dragons were big enough and she had the Unsullied, that should have been enough.

The dragons aren't fully grown. Not even close, I don't think.

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

The news will travel fast.

ETA- She's already known for some time that Robert is dead and that there's a boy king, and that his rule is being disputed. Once the dragons were big enough and she had the Unsullied, that should have been enough.

She clearly cannot control her dragons and is using mereen to learn what it's like to rule while not letting those that she freed slide back into slavery.

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

The news will travel fast.

ETA- She's already known for some time that Robert is dead and that there's a boy king, and that his rule is being disputed. Once the dragons were big enough and she had the Unsullied, that should have been enough.

Sha also knows that Joffrey is dead.

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

HBO On Demand?

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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

book readers, probably
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I honestly don't know what Dany is waiting for. Her army doesn't need to be any bigger than it is right now. Take that army and the two dragons on a few ships and head straight for King's Landing. The death of Tywinn is the perfect moment for her- the realm is in chaos. Littlefinger won't dare leave the Eyrie, and Stannis is north of the wall- who's going to stop her? The path is open.

How the #### do you think she knows all these things happened?

book readers, probably

:lmao:

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