Official Johnny Manziel Thread: Manziel agrees to join ‘Fan Controlled Football’ startup league

[tone1oc 902]

What a convenient crutch. Ok, so he's an addict instead of a moron and a liar. Either way, Cleveland is wise to cut bait.

I'd agree that the addict vs screw-up argument is kind of silly. I just don't think that his partying ways contribute to his on field performance as much as people want to believe. I feel like we are too quick to say that he's not getting his work in because he enjoys his free time. For all we know he could be hitting the books harder than the liquor. And all the film/book study or whatever else he should be doing as a "professional" during a weekend night on a bye week pale in comparison to on the field experience/evaluation.

Edited December 3, 2015 by tone1oc

[Alex P Keaton 3,937]

JNB: I would cut him too, for whichever reason you prefer.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

JNB: I would cut him too, for whichever reason you prefer.

I'd cut him for neither of those reasons. I'd cut him because he's not a good quarterback and he's more of a distraction than a help. Real simple.

[Alex P Keaton 3,937]

JNB: I would cut him too, for whichever reason you prefer.

I'd cut him for neither of those reasons. I'd cut him because he's not a good quarterback and he's more of a distraction than a help. Real simple.

I'd cut him for all 3 reasons.

[davearm 921]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

JNB: I would cut him too, for whichever reason you prefer.

I'd cut him for neither of those reasons. I'd cut him because he's not a good quarterback and he's more of a distraction than a help. Real simple.

I'd cut him for all 3 reasons.

The good thing is, the Browns don't need to list a reason. They can just cut him. Although they won't have to. Dallas will actually give them a draft pick for him.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

In your scenario, if he had potential to be a Brady, Rogers, or Roethlisberger, you hold on, let the talent develop, and hope he grows up and learns from his mistakes. Manziel's potential is MAYBE being a serviceable backup someday. He can't read defenses and his first instinct is to take off running. So why would they bother wasting any more time when he's already created a media circus there?

[Carter_Can_Fly 179]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Carter_Can_Fly

[tone1oc 902]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

[JuniorNB 7,258]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

Petine isn't just coaching Manziel though. He has 53 sets of eyes on him. Petine thought Manziel came a long way both on the field and as a person. Manziel turned around and let him down and then lied right to his face. Still, those 53 sets of eyes are on him. What will he do? He had no choice. Even with McCown going down, he can't waiver and look like he has no backbone to the rest of the team. It was never stated that he was benched for the entire season. Unless Davis plays really well, I still think Petine will give Manziel a look. Maybe next week, maybe the week after. Once he feels the discipline was more than a slap on the wrist.

[davearm 921]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

Look your point was the Browns have to "see what they have" in Manziel. But if they've already seen enough to make a final decision that he'll not be part of their future (not saying that's definitively the case, but if), then don't they have to turn the page and apply the same "see what we have" logic to Davis or some other player?

Earlier you characterized that as a business decision.

So "see what you have" and "build trade value" are both business decisions, but they're mutually exclusive ones.

[Carter_Can_Fly 179]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

Look your point was the Browns have to "see what they have" in Manziel. But if they've already seen enough to make a final decision that he'll not be part of their future (not saying that's definitively the case, but if), then don't they have to turn the page and apply the same "see what we have" logic to Davis or some other player?

Earlier you characterized that as a business decision.

So "see what you have" and "build trade value" are both business decisions, but they're mutually exclusive ones.

This is where I don't think that is the case.

They had named him the starter for the remainder of the season. Now they may have already thought they were moving on from him, but that does not mean he could still not be an asset in a trade for the franchise.

[tone1oc 902]

Look your point was the Browns have to "see what they have" in Manziel. But if they've already seen enough to make a final decision that he'll not be part of their future (not saying that's definitively the case, but if), then don't they have to turn the page and apply the same "see what we have" logic to Davis or some other player?

Earlier you characterized that as a business decision.

So "see what you have" and "build trade value" are both business decisions, but they're mutually exclusive ones.

They are mutually exclusive, depending on where the org is at from strictly an evaluation perspective (on the field). You saying they've seen enough isn't true IMO, he was trending up before being benched. And even if it is true, they should maximize any return they could get for him to move on. Stymying him for the sake of ego or pretentious moral crusades does nothing for the Browns.

[pantherclub 2,005]

I think its obvious the Browns know exactly what they have with Johnny both on and off the field. Its not like he isnt practicing. They know how he plays.

[davearm 921]

Look your point was the Browns have to "see what they have" in Manziel. But if they've already seen enough to make a final decision that he'll not be part of their future (not saying that's definitively the case, but if), then don't they have to turn the page and apply the same "see what we have" logic to Davis or some other player?

Earlier you characterized that as a business decision.

So "see what you have" and "build trade value" are both business decisions, but they're mutually exclusive ones.

They are mutually exclusive, depending on where the org is at from strictly an evaluation perspective (on the field). You saying they've seen enough isn't true IMO, he was trending up before being benched. And even if it is true, they should maximize any return they could get for him to move on. Stymying him for the sake of ego or pretentious moral crusades does nothing for the Browns.

What you call a pretentious moral crusade sounds more like holding players accountable and putting consequences behind the rules.

Now I'm under no illusion that Mike Pettine is going to straighten Johnny Fn Football out on these issues (it's possible but very unlikely IMO), but he does have 52 other players to set a tone for. You seem to have no appreciation of the message it would send to the rest of the team if Pettine just hands Manziel his starting job back. Why would anyone listen to anything Pettine has to say if Manziel can do as he pleases and lie to his face, with essentially no ramifications?

[davearm 921]

I think its obvious the Browns know exactly what they have with Johnny both on and off the field. Its not like he isnt practicing. They know how he plays.

Agreed.

IMO the "see what they have" crowd is full of people that don't have enough evidence yet to form a final opinion.

The folks coaching and GMing the Browns are probably not in that crowd.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

Look your point was the Browns have to "see what they have" in Manziel. But if they've already seen enough to make a final decision that he'll not be part of their future (not saying that's definitively the case, but if), then don't they have to turn the page and apply the same "see what we have" logic to Davis or some other player?

Earlier you characterized that as a business decision.

So "see what you have" and "build trade value" are both business decisions, but they're mutually exclusive ones.

They are mutually exclusive, depending on where the org is at from strictly an evaluation perspective (on the field). You saying they've seen enough isn't true IMO, he was trending up before being benched. And even if it is true, they should maximize any return they could get for him to move on. Stymying him for the sake of ego or pretentious moral crusades does nothing for the Browns.

What you call a pretentious moral crusade sounds more like holding players accountable and putting consequences behind the rules.

Now I'm under no illusion that Mike Pettine is going to straighten Johnny Fn Football out on these issues (it's possible but very unlikely IMO), but he does have 52 other players to set a tone for. You seem to have no appreciation of the message it would send to the rest of the team if Pettine just hands Manziel his starting job back. Why would anyone listen to anything Pettine has to say if Manziel can do as he pleases and lie to his face, with essentially no ramifications?

[toneloc]Because he used to be really really good in college [toneloc]

[sbonomo 1,267]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

You are completely delusional if you think any team is willing to give something up for that POS. He was a completely wasted pick for the Browns. Par for the course and why they have been in the cellar forever.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

You are completely delusional if you think any team is willing to give something up for that POS. He was a completely wasted pick for the Browns. Par for the course and why they have been in the cellar forever.

Jerry Jones down?

[tone1oc 902]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

You are completely delusional if you think any team is willing to give something up for that POS. He was a completely wasted pick for the Browns. Par for the course and why they have been in the cellar forever.

Ryan Mallet was traded for a 6th round pick. The Raiders gave up two later rounders for Matt Flynn. Manziel has way more upside than both of those QBs at the time.

The Browns will not outright cut him this offseason barring another mistake.

[pantherclub 2,005]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

You are completely delusional if you think any team is willing to give something up for that POS. He was a completely wasted pick for the Browns. Par for the course and why they have been in the cellar forever.

Ryan Mallet was traded for a 6th round pick. The Raiders gave up two later rounders for Matt Flynn. Manziel has way more upside than both of those QBs at the time.

The Browns will not outright cut him this offseason barring another mistake.

I would bet anything he is done with the Browns no matter what happens. He will be cut. Period

[tone1oc 902]

I would bet anything he is done with the Browns no matter what happens. He will be cut. Period

How much do you want to wager, I'll take the bet that the will not cut him unless another off field incident occurs.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

And again, back to football...

You can short change Manziel's improved play and conclude that he isn't any good. Fair enough. But the Browns are an NFL team with a 1st round pick invested and have been completely incompetent in every aspect of the organization. You have to see what you have with Manziel. It's a business decision, not a personal one as Pettine (which you laud) has made it.

I'd ask this question: what difference does it really make, to the Browns, if/how well Manziel can actually play QB? They already know what they have: an immature, unprofessional, unfocused, possible addict that they can't trust.

If they give him some meaningless starts here at the end of 2015, and he plays well, then what? Is the trust going to be magically re-established? Are they suddenly going to feel comfortable with him being the starting QB and the face of the franchise?

If the answer is no (and I think that it is), then there's no more "seeing what you have" left to do.

The difference is gaining what little value that you may have left out of last years first round pick.

The Browns are a 2-9 team and that is in no part due to Manziel. It is due to a bad GM, bad coaching etc. Manziel had been named the starter for the year with Pettine actually praising Manziel for how far he has come. At least a part of him thought well enough to start him and see what comes of it. At the very least he plays well and you can get a draft pick for him. QB's are tough to come by now a days and someone may be willing to pay something for a former first round pick who is 22 years of age and who showed some promise closing out the year.

This exactly, from a business perspective you have to try and maximize your investment. People state it is fact that he can not be a starting QB, we do not know. Even if they believe he isn't their QB of the future, its about giving him a chance to show for a trade that could net a middle round pick (guessing)

You are completely delusional if you think any team is willing to give something up for that POS. He was a completely wasted pick for the Browns. Par for the course and why they have been in the cellar forever.

Ryan Mallet was traded for a 6th round pick. The Raiders gave up two later rounders for Matt Flynn. Manziel has way more upside than both of those QBs at the time.

The Browns will not outright cut him this offseason barring another mistake.

I would bet anything he is done with the Browns no matter what happens. He will be cut. Period

I think you may be wrong there. With Cassell and Weeden going a combined 0-7, and Jerry Jones' infatuation with a media circus, I could see him trading for him. Maybe a 6th rounder or something.

[jmo87usc 397]

Crazy thought here... What if Austin Davis is actually really good and has a chance to be the franchise qb? Maybe it's less about punishing Johnny and more about recognizing who the more talented player is. Reminds me more of when Russell Wilson started over big money signing Matt Flynn. Or cousins over rg3. Forget where guys were drafted or how much they are getting paid, you put the guy in who has the best ability to win. Davis looked good last year in St. Louis and showed pretty well on Monday night. I think it's the right move.

Russell Wilson and Kirk Cousins weren't failed starters signed off waivers.

What is your criteria for a failed starter? I thought Davis played well last year. Didn't he beat Russell Wilson's team in one game? Obviously he didn't light it up but for a small school kid still learning the ropes, I wouldn't say he failed by any means. Seems like a pretty bright kid with some talent. I'm interested to see what he can do.

[davearm 921]

It'd be kinda awesome if a "Browns need to see what they have in Davis" narrative gained some traction.

[beef 2,502]

Johnny Football would make an great AIDS patient.

[tone1oc 902]

Johnny Football would make an great AIDS patient.

beef would make an great english teacher.

[MAC_32 12,120]

Interesting read from Waldman. He temporarily provided that false sense of hope I've been missing for several weeks. I should stop reading articles about the Browns with a positive spin.

[Faust 5,036]

Acquiring Johnny Manziel would be one of Jerry Jones' worst decisions

[[scooter] 14,071]

It'd be kinda awesome if a "Browns need to see what they have in Davis" narrative gained some traction.

And then maybe people will realize that it's such a bad cliché.

[snogger 2,924]

Might have missed this being posted, and if so sorry for the :honda:

According to Andrew Perloff of The Dan Patrick Show, ESPN.com's Adam Schefter revealed Thursday the St. Louis Rams, Dallas Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers, as well as Philadelphia Eagles head coach Chip Kelly, have all shown some level of interest in trading for Johnny Football.

"Somebody's gonna roll the dice on him," Schefter said.

[DocHolliday 3,949]

Might have missed this being posted, and if so sorry for the :honda:

According to Andrew Perloff of The Dan Patrick Show, ESPN.com's Adam Schefter revealed Thursday the St. Louis Rams, Dallas Cowboys and San Francisco 49ers, as well as Philadelphia Eagles head coach Chip Kelly, have all shown some level of interest in trading for Johnny Football.

"Somebody's gonna roll the dice on him," Schefter said.

That would be great for the Browns and Manziel. The Browns need draft picks. Manziel needs a fresh start.

[McGarnicle 11,112]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

[dirtyjay 101]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

[JuniorNB 7,258]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

[dirtyjay 101]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

[JuniorNB 7,258]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

jealous? Of what? I guess you could say I'm jealous of every athlete, rock star, actor. They live great lives. But why would I choose Johnny Manziel to be jealous of?? Why not a guy with talent like Aaron Rodgers or Gronk? I await your brilliant response.

[dirtyjay 101]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

jealous? Of what? I guess you could say I'm jealous of every athlete, rock star, actor. They live great lives. But why would I choose Johnny Manziel to be jealous of?? Why not a guy with talent like Aaron Rodgers or Gronk? I await your brilliant response.

Because he is an athlete, rock star or actor as you just said, so I could say you are jealous him since he is one of those.

Was it brilliant enough to turn your hate rhetoric for this guy on you, again?

[JuniorNB 7,258]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

jealous? Of what? I guess you could say I'm jealous of every athlete, rock star, actor. They live great lives. But why would I choose Johnny Manziel to be jealous of?? Why not a guy with talent like Aaron Rodgers or Gronk? I await your brilliant response.

Because he is an athlete, rock star or actor as you just said, so I could say you are jealous him since he is one of those.

Was it brilliant enough to turn your hate rhetoric for this guy on you, again?

again, why am I not jealous of Aaron Rodgers or Gronk?

[dirtyjay 101]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

jealous? Of what? I guess you could say I'm jealous of every athlete, rock star, actor. They live great lives. But why would I choose Johnny Manziel to be jealous of?? Why not a guy with talent like Aaron Rodgers or Gronk? I await your brilliant response.

Because he is an athlete, rock star or actor as you just said, so I could say you are jealous him since he is one of those.

Was it brilliant enough to turn your hate rhetoric for this guy on you, again?

again, why am I not jealous of Aaron Rodgers or Gronk?

You are, because you already said you are jealous of all athletes, rock stars and actors. In your own words.

Give it up man you are trying to troll and provide nothing but hate for a player, what do you gain from it?

[JuniorNB 7,258]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

jealous? Of what? I guess you could say I'm jealous of every athlete, rock star, actor. They live great lives. But why would I choose Johnny Manziel to be jealous of?? Why not a guy with talent like Aaron Rodgers or Gronk? I await your brilliant response.

Because he is an athlete, rock star or actor as you just said, so I could say you are jealous him since he is one of those.

Was it brilliant enough to turn your hate rhetoric for this guy on you, again?

again, why am I not jealous of Aaron Rodgers or Gronk?

You are, because you already said you are jealous of all athletes, rock stars and actors. In your own words.

Give it up man you are trying to troll and provide nothing but hate for a player, what do you gain from it?

But I never talk crap about Rodgers or Gronk. So you're entire theory is blown to smithereens. Ouch. Rough start of the day for you.

[amnesiac 887]

good lord this back and forth is making my head hurt.

Manziel has failed to prepare properly. this is indisputable.

personally, i don't care if he does rails between possessions, as long as he can properly run the plays. but he can't.

seems to me the Manziel supporters are deflecting the conversation away from the fact that he is not a good NFL QB.

[tone1oc 902]

good lord this back and forth is making my head hurt.

Manziel has failed to prepare properly. this is indisputable.

personally, i don't care if he does rails between possessions, as long as he can properly run the plays. but he can't.

seems to me the Manziel supporters are deflecting the conversation away from the fact that he is not a good NFL QB.

Seems to me that Manziel haters are stating as fact that he can not be a good NFL QB. I've stated over and over again he's been bad, but he's also improved quite a bit and I thought he was playing pretty well before the benching. Many smart football people agree with that.

[Pots 168]

Great, he can go wreck another franchise. I hope it's the cowboys. Dez might literally kill him.

Are you saying he wrecked the Browns?

I have to say based of their long history of wrecking QBS, they wrecked Johnny.

I love the hatred for Johnny based of his ability to have fun off the field.

Are you football fans or moral police?

it's human nature to not like entitled rich boys who constantly act like they're above the rules. Whether it's a classmate, coworker, or athlete. The fact that he's also not a good quarterback, makes him a very unsympathetic figure. He offers nothing.

I dont think its human nature as much as jealous nature. You know nothing about this guy but what you read and see on TV by a bias media.

Your rhetoric is pure hate, provides nothing and is just your hatred for the guy rambled over and over.

Also, I will remind you of this every time you want to share your opinion on a players talent... Christine Michael got your seal of approval.

jealous? Of what? I guess you could say I'm jealous of every athlete, rock star, actor. They live great lives. But why would I choose Johnny Manziel to be jealous of?? Why not a guy with talent like Aaron Rodgers or Gronk? I await your brilliant response.

Because he is an athlete, rock star or actor as you just said, so I could say you are jealous him since he is one of those.

Was it brilliant enough to turn your hate rhetoric for this guy on you, again?

again, why am I not jealous of Aaron Rodgers or Gronk?

You are, because you already said you are jealous of all athletes, rock stars and actors. In your own words.

Give it up man you are trying to troll and provide nothing but hate for a player, what do you gain from it?

But I never talk crap about Rodgers or Gronk. So you're entire theory is blown to smithereens. Ouch. Rough start of the day for you.

You two should take this to PMs. You're both clearly trying to instigate each other at this point.

[amnesiac 887]

good lord this back and forth is making my head hurt.

Manziel has failed to prepare properly. this is indisputable.

personally, i don't care if he does rails between possessions, as long as he can properly run the plays. but he can't.

seems to me the Manziel supporters are deflecting the conversation away from the fact that he is not a good NFL QB.

Seems to me that Manziel haters are stating as fact that he can not be a good NFL QB. I've stated over and over again he's been bad, but he's also improved quite a bit and I thought he was playing pretty well before the benching. Many smart football people agree with that.

there are also many smart football people that have pointed out that he is still hot garbage.

maybe he will succeed on his next team. i highly doubt it.

it is not going to happen for him in Cleveland.

[amnesiac 887]

honestly, i also thought he looked much improved until i saw some of his plays broken down and it is apparent that he is still clueless.

[Faust 5,036]

The door isn't closed on Johnny Manziel starting again

[dipandglide 372]

Its brutal watching the Browns roll Davis out there.

[davearm 921]

good lord this back and forth is making my head hurt.

Manziel has failed to prepare properly. this is indisputable.

personally, i don't care if he does rails between possessions, as long as he can properly run the plays. but he can't.

seems to me the Manziel supporters are deflecting the conversation away from the fact that he is not a good NFL QB.

Seems to me that Manziel haters are stating as fact that he can not be a good NFL QB. I've stated over and over again he's been bad, but he's also improved quite a bit and I thought he was playing pretty well before the benching. Many smart football people agree with that.

Many more smart football people disagree with that.

[Chaka 6,241]

What's a smart football person?