Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'

[Da Guru 6,571]

This should be merged with the Kaepernick and RGIII thread.

[DallasDMac 2,936]

2 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

This should be merged with the Kaepernick and RGIII thread.

One of these is not like the others.

[Da Guru 6,571]

Just now, DallasDMac said:

One of these is not like the others.

They are all ex- NFL QBs.

[DallasDMac 2,936]

3 hours ago, Da Guru said:

They are all ex- NFL QBs.

If that's your comparison, then you left several thousand folks off your list.

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

On 3/22/2018 at 7:54 PM, Bossman said:

Blows my mind when guys "make it" and then don't give 110%. Typically booze, drugs, or mental illness to blame.

In Manziels case, likely all 3.

It doesn't truly blow my mind that this happens all the time. Typical guy coming into the NFL is still unbelievably young -- hell the average offense age in the NFL last year was 26.8, but with rookies' age averaging in the low 20s, we're not talking about guys with a lot of life lessons and earned maturity. These are still kids, and ones I'd argue that have been largely sheltered from repercussions of their actions.

As such, I can totally see how a guy who has been pampered through his high school and college years given that he was the star QB suddenly find himself not knowing how to manage aspects of life in the NFL -- where the spotlight shines brighter, enabling only is heightened, and where the wrong choices can land you in hotter water faster. So having guys finally achieve their dream only to get caught up in the many downsides a life with sudden influx of money, attention, fame, etc. is understandable. And I believe in second chances.

Where it ISN'T understandable is repeat offenders -- guys like Manziel, Gordon, Aldon Smith, etc. -- guys who have gotten not just a second chance but 3rds, 4ths, etc. and still can't hold it together. Not minimizing underlying mechanisms that could make this truly hard (alcoholism, underlying mental issues, etc.), but after the first second chance, if turning your life around at that point and making the most out of your chances while you can isn't a priority to you, you will continue to fail. You need to be ready to change. And it's clear that guys like Manziel, with so many chances to turn it around, is not.

So hearing things from him about needing a last shot -- even self-aware things like this is his 35th chance -- fall on my deaf ears. The guy has had his second shot (and more), wasn't able to prioritize what he needed to prioritize when he needed to prioritize it, so I truly don't think he deserves that shot. Let the press ink, attention, and opportunity fall to some UDFA working his tail off on the edge of practice quads for the last few years get a chance. Not a guy like Manziel who has been afforded far too many chances and didn't have the fortitude or courage or whatever to turn it around.

21 hours ago, pantherclub said:

^ woah dude.  ease up on the thesis 

Not a rant against you @pantherclub, but I wish we didn't live in an age where how something is said (packaged into polarizing 140-character snippets) means much more than the substance of what is said, regardless of length. A downside I see in general to the times we live in: with so many things attracting our shortening attention span, I'd wager way less kids are reading books than viewing memes and YouTube clips. The nature of being able to ingest, understand, formulate opinion/counter-opinion, etc. over a long-form discourse like a book is being lost, when it has so much applicability to being able to navigate all the other long-form narrative arcs you come across in life (relating to political discourse, longitudinal scientific discourse, even discourse and arcs that occurs in long term relationships). It's sad to me, especially when I see it manifest itself in an opinion being dismissed simply because it was expressed in longer form text, and as such may not have been read at all. /offsoapbox.

I read you, @Bri , and while I think you have a good take on teams taking chances on upside unproven talent that have delivered results, even if only at the college level, than choosing a safer but uninspired and potentially talent-poor pool of older QB retreads, I do think having experience at the NFL level is tangible. The game is so much different than college and other leagues in terms of speed, strength, ability, etc. and that it factors into the equation when GMs are deciding their backup spots. If the culture of the league is that wins are the only thing that matter, and a few losses mean the entire staff gets ousted, a relatively talent-poor QB with the ability to run an NFL offense where there is a chance to keep them in games (i.e. Hundley) may be much preferable over a guy who has way better talent at the college/CFL/XFL level who may not be as used to the NFL flow and where costly mistakes lead to game-losing errors.

It's more an issue with being risk averse - which many teams are at the pro level - than a network of ole boys favoring the retreads.

[Da Guru 6,571]

1 hour ago, DallasDMac said:

If that's your comparison, then you left several thousand folks off your list.

Those 3 still want to get tryouts. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by Da Guru

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

Why is it that more often than not, extraordinarly long posts tend to do the exact opposite of what the author intended?  Instead of offering clarity that they tend to stray and wander off into the weeds?  There is great value in being concise.

 

.

Edited March 25, 2018 by Bronco Billy

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

5 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

Why is it that more often than not, extraordinarly long posts tend to do the exact opposite of what the author intended?  Instead of offering clarity that they tend to stray and wander off into the weeds?  There is great value in being concise.

 

.

I do not disagree. There is value in both formats if the points are clear.

[Bri 1,900]

7 hours ago, Bracie Smathers said:

Hate to destroy the false narrative but....

=============================

Albert Breer‏Verified account @AlbertBreer 13h13 hours ago

Albert Breer Retweeted Business Insider

Again, no teams sent anyone to San Diego to watch Manziel. It was a bunch of area scouts there for USD Pro Day. Headlines like this are bunk.

see but he put this qualifier in there= sent to watch Manziel. No one was sent, but there were representatives from 13 NFL teams there and they saw Manziel. 

[Bri 1,900]

9 hours ago, Bossman said:

Here is where I have a major problem with the guy ... and I'm sure so does every sane GM.

When Johnny Football was done with his college career and pimping himself to be drafted ... the question was asked of him, I'm sure dozens of times ... "what about the partying?"

He said all of the right things. Something to the effect ... "party time is over, this is my career now" ....  and sounded like his priorities were right. Sounded very sincere and convincing. (little did we realize, he's obviously been slinging the bs for quite a while. Much experience at such a young age. Duped all of us)

What we learned (fans and NFL GM's) is that this kid is a greasy used car salesman ... says what you want to hear and then he's all about himself. 

How could any sane GM read this and even consider bringing this guy into your locker room? ... https://nypost.com/2016/04/13/johnny-manziels-agent-get-help-or-im-gone/

Using what we already know about Johnny Football, who couldn't "not party" his first go around in the NFL and then continued down that path for 2 years after ....didn't give a rats rectum about being out of the league.

the big question that GM's are facing, what's more likely to happen if he gets a $1m contract with an NFL team;

a) stays sober and becomes a viable NFL QB for several years

b) gets his party back on

50/50 shot here? If I'm a GM, I'm not risking $1m in cap hit ... and more importantly, a roster spot, on a 50/50 shot. 

 

that was two years ago. I agree for the most part but the QB market stinks.

I think Joe Thomas' view holds significant weight. Apparently they didn't just talk during the apology but had a lengthy conversation sometime after. I would guess NFL teams are calling the Browns and (however they work around tampering rules) finding out what Joe thought of Manziel. Manziel has been out of the NFL so long that probably very few even kept in touch with him. Here's this wonderful, well-respected veteran that knows the NFL all too well and how players should behave. Add in that he was a shmoo when he played with Joe and ...yeah I would guess Joe is the perfect guy to ask if he thinks Manziel should get another chance

[Bri 1,900]

2 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

Why is it that more often than not, extraordinarly long posts tend to do the exact opposite of what the author intended?  Instead of offering clarity that they tend to stray and wander off into the weeds?  There is great value in being concise.

 

.

hi flamer

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

4 hours ago, Bri said:

hi flamer

 

I’m sorry that you’re still experiencing pain in your posterior.  You seem to have identified with my post. 

[Faust 5,647]

Johnny Manziel to reportedly throw at Texas A&M pro day in front of NFL scouts

[Ditkaless Wonders 16,255]

2 hours ago, Faust said:

Johnny Manziel to reportedly throw at Texas A&M pro day in front of NFL scouts

There will be ball boys there too.  They will throw some balls.  The scouts that are there will see those throws, but that does not mean they are there to watch those throws as the ball boys return balls back to the hands of the coaches snapping the ball to the relevant Q.B.'s.  Manziel had his shot with one of the few believers he could find.  He crapped all over them.  while doing so he also confirmed that he is too small and too inaccurate, in addition to too immature.  His protestations of having changed are the same as we have heard a dozen times before from him.  He now has a "boy who cried wolf" problem in that even if he happens to be sincere now only a fool would believe him.  Regardless, and this is the key thing, in spite of being an exciting college Q.B. he lacks pro tools, pro size, pro arm strength, pro body strength, and a leadership temperament.  Yes he can get into a pro day at his alma mater, but unless he can grow several inches, change his history, learn to be more accurate, and change his temperament he is no pro Q.B.  I would not want him on my flag football team.  If he wanted to arrange the after party I might attend, if it was all on his dime.

Edited March 26, 2018 by Ditkaless Wonders

[32 Counter Pass 582]

I think it is an opportunity for some team willing to take a chance. I get the unwillingness to take on the distraction of Manziel, but in a league starved to QB play he could represent a decent trade value. Sign him, play him in preseason, if he shows well trade him to a team desperate for WB play. If he doesn't show well cut him. 

 

[pantherclub 2,051]

2 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

I think it is an opportunity for some team willing to take a chance. I get the unwillingness to take on the distraction of Manziel, but in a league starved to QB play he could represent a decent trade value. Sign him, play him in preseason, if he shows well trade him to a team desperate for WB play. If he doesn't show well cut him. 

 

You think someone will trade for him?  Come on man

[32 Counter Pass 582]

If Manziel showed well in preseason I have no doubt there would be an opportunity to garner a draft pick for his services. Osweiler is exhibit A as to how much demand a QB carries.

[pantherclub 2,051]

5 minutes ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

If Manziel showed well in preseason I have no doubt there would be an opportunity to garner a draft pick for his services. Osweiler is exhibit A as to how much demand a QB carries.

no offense but you are crazy. nobody is trading for hom based on preseason 

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

4 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

If Manziel showed well in preseason I have no doubt there would be an opportunity to garner a draft pick for his services. Osweiler is exhibit A as to how much demand a QB carries.

 

How is Kaepernick doing?  You can only burn so many bridges.

[Faust 5,647]

821 days (and counting): Johnny Manziel's time away from the NFL

[32 Counter Pass 582]

12 hours ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

How is Kaepernick doing?  You can only burn so many bridges.

The situations are much different. Kaep's protest can are linked (right or wrong) to a drop in NFL revenue and bad league PR. That is a mortal sin for owners. 

Manziel, on the other hand, was his own worst enemy. He seems to be on the straight and narrow now. Also, there are new reports that Manziel is willing to play in the CFL if he doesn't get an opportunity in the NFL. That shows a level of sincerity about wanting to play football that Kaep hasn't shown to date. 

Look, I am not trying to lead the Manziel bandwagon, only pointing out it is an opportunity for some team to gain value (acquiring a future draft pick for "free").

[pantherclub 2,051]

3 minutes ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

The situations are much different. Kaep's protest can are linked (right or wrong) to a drop in NFL revenue and bad league PR. That is a mortal sin for owners. 

Manziel, on the other hand, was his own worst enemy. He seems to be on the straight and narrow now. Also, there are new reports that Manziel is willing to play in the CFL if he doesn't get an opportunity in the NFL. That shows a level of sincerity about wanting to play football that Kaep hasn't shown to date. 

Look, I am not trying to lead the Manziel bandwagon, only pointing out it is an opportunity for some team to gain value (acquiring a future draft pick for "free").

Saying the right thing and actually doing the right thing are probably ground zero for him not getting another chance.  That and his lack of talent

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

1 minute ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

The situations are much different. Kaep's protest can are linked (right or wrong) to a drop in NFL revenue and bad league PR. That is a mortal sin for owners. 

Manziel, on the other hand, was his own worst enemy. He seems to be on the straight and narrow now. Also, there are new reports that Manziel is willing to play in the CFL if he doesn't get an opportunity in the NFL. That shows a level of sincerity about wanting to play football that Kaep hasn't shown to date. 

Look, I am not trying to lead the Manziel bandwagon, only pointing out it is an opportunity for some team to gain value (acquiring a future draft pick for "free").

 

You’ll have to forgive me for chuckling when you used Manziel and sincerity together in the same thought.  Kaepernick has displayed some modicum of talent that Manziel has failed to provide so far despite having every opportunity.  He also did just about everything to wreck the opportunity (well paid, no less) short of pissing on the owner’s shoes.

[Faust 5,647]

Manziel's best throws from Texas A&M pro day

Johnny Manziel casually pings the crossbar during Texas A&M pro day warmup

Edited March 27, 2018 by Faust

[Faust 5,647]

Jeremiah on Manziel's pro day: He showed 'enough' to be on an NFL roster

[Faust 5,647]

Free agent Johnny Manziel said he will play in the CFL if he does not receive an offer from an NFL team.

Manziel worked out at Texas A&M's Pro Day on Tuesday after working out at San Diego's last week, where he reportedly looked good. Manziel is scheduled to participate in the Spring League next week.

Source: Drew Davidson on Twitter 

Mar 27 - 12:01 PM

[Da Guru 6,571]

I thought unemployed QB threads are supposed to be in the political forum?

[johnadams 76]

On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:09 AM, Bossman said:

 

50/50 shot here? If I'm a GM, I'm not risking $1m in cap hit ... and more importantly, a roster spot, on a 50/50 shot. 

 

I don't agree that it's 50/50 (I think its a bigger gamble than that) but 50/50 chance of an NFL caliber starter for $1mil?  There's not a GM that would say no to those odds.  They pay a lot more for guys they know are at best NFL backups. 

[pantherclub 2,051]

15 minutes ago, johnadams said:

I don't agree that it's 50/50 (I think its a bigger gamble than that) but 50/50 chance of an NFL caliber starter for $1mil?  There's not a GM that would say no to those odds.  They pay a lot more for guys they know are at best NFL backups. 

Except he is not your typical backup.  The media onslaught you are signing up for is just not worth it.

[johnadams 76]

1 minute ago, pantherclub said:

Except he is not your typical backup.  The media onslaught you are signing up for is just not worth it.

If he's not ready and continues to get into trouble, it's an easy number to cut.  If he's not getting into trouble, the circus will go on hiatus.  People have come back from far greater transgressions than partying and being a Richard. 

[Gandalf 520]

I think he’s headed for the CFL where he will need to prove he can play. If you are an NFL executive who advocates to hire Manziel and signs him and he is a disaster, it likely costs you your job. Who wants to take that type of risk?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Gandalf

[Slider 617]

I think he gets a camp invite and a shot at playing. What do teams have to lose? And media onslaught at training camp?  Who cares?

[Bossman 1,882]

53 minutes ago, johnadams said:

If he's not ready and continues to get into trouble, it's an easy number to cut.  If he's not getting into trouble, the circus will go on hiatus.  People have come back from far greater transgressions than partying and being a Richard. 

Players that have come back from far greater transgressions were far greater players.

This kid was just never was that good for a team to wan't to take a chance. ....

and I can't imagine his skill set has improved since he's been out of the league ... unless bong hits and funneling beer increases pocket awareness or something.

 

[Stompin' Tom Connors 4,244]

5 hours ago, 32 Counter Pass said:

The situations are much different. Kaep's protest can are linked (right or wrong) to a drop in NFL revenue and bad league PR. That is a mortal sin for owners. 

Manziel, on the other hand, was his own worst enemy. He seems to be on the straight and narrow now. Also, there are new reports that Manziel is willing to play in the CFL if he doesn't get an opportunity in the NFL. That shows a level of sincerity about wanting to play football that Kaep hasn't shown to date. 

Look, I am not trying to lead the Manziel bandwagon, only pointing out it is an opportunity for some team to gain value (acquiring a future draft pick for "free").

How is what Manziel has done (flipping the bird in preseason for $12K fine, partying in Texas during a bye week and totally lying about it leading to him being benched, heading out to Vegas instead of travelling with the team for the last game of the season, throwing a water bottle at a heck,er at a golf tournament, the domestic abuse incident with Colleen Crowley, repeated violations of the substance abuse policy, and so forth NOT bad league PR?

22 minutes ago, Slider said:

I think he gets a camp invite and a shot at playing. What do teams have to lose? And media onslaught at training camp?  Who cares?

Well, not truly passionate about it, but I guess I do care a little. Manziel is a guy whose attitude and actions paint a continually poor story of him as a player and a human in terms of the continued and ongoing troubles he's had. This isn't one or two incidents, but multiple and ongoing issues since before he started a game as A&M's starting QB to this recent stint of him assuring everyone he's sober and being on the level.

At this point, give someone else a shot. He's had multiple second chances, and I just don't think he deserves yet another in favor of another guy who has always wanted to be there and do whatever it takes to make an impact in the league.

[Warhogs 631]

Who do you think would be more likely to get signed by a team with a chance to earn a roster spot, Johnny Manziel or Colin Kaepernick? I think Kap would be the easy choice and I don't think it is very likely that happens so I don't see Johnny football in the NFL this year. If he went to another league and lit it up for a couple years then maybe?

[BradtheAg 138]

Hoping he gets a shot in the NFL, but CFL seems a lot more likely for 2018.

Edited March 27, 2018 by BradtheAg

[Bossman 1,882]

21 minutes ago, BradtheAg said:

Hoping he gets a shot in the NFL, but CFL seems a lot more likely for 2018.

Would be fun to see him go "Doug Flutie" in the CFL.

I hope for his sake he can make it work in the CFL and doesn't stoop to Arena League lows.

[Faust 5,647]

Scout’s Notebook: Johnny Manziel, Christian Kirk & A&M’s Day 3 Prospects

Excerpt:

As mentioned, Johnny Manziel was part of the Pro Day. I actually thought he threw the ball better in this workout than he did four years ago at this same place. His ball placement and arm talented showed up well. There were several throws where he was able to lead the receiver into a reception. I thought he might make these receivers have to work for the ball but that wasn’t the case at all. It appears that listening to him talk after the workout that’s he’s in a good place mentally.

[squistion 12,632]

Jeff Howe‏ @jeffphowe 19m19 minutes ago

Patriots appear to be hot on Johnny Football

The Patriots met with Johnny Manziel both before and after his workout today, according to @kguregian.

Also remember, Manziel’s first pre-draft visit was with the Patriots. They’ve got a history with him. Watched him work out last week too.

[Faust 5,647]

Article from 2014:

Bill Belichick discusses leaked Johnny Manziel scouting report

[Bojang0301 2,246]

1 hour ago, Warhogs said:

Who do you think would be more likely to get signed by a team with a chance to earn a roster spot, Johnny Manziel or Colin Kaepernick? I think Kap would be the easy choice and I don't think it is very likely that happens so I don't see Johnny football in the NFL this year. If he went to another league and lit it up for a couple years then maybe?

Manziel. Colin Kaepernick played chicken with the owners. Had his gf not said what she did about the Ravens owner last year he would have backed up Flacco and probably had a job right now. Instead she did that, he sued the NFL and that’s probably all history will write as the league has proven time and time again that they will hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil until problems go away.

[Riversco 604]

Well the patriots have taken chances on guys with questionable attitudes before.  Randy Moss.  Albert Haynesworth.  Belichick is so secure in his job that if he offers a small contract to Manziel and it doesnt work out, its not like they will fire him for it. And its not like the media circus can get worse over there.  

Edited March 27, 2018 by Riversco

[matuski 5,023]

4 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

How is what Manziel has done (flipping the bird in preseason for $12K fine, partying in Texas during a bye week and totally lying about it leading to him being benched, heading out to Vegas instead of travelling with the team for the last game of the season, throwing a water bottle at a heck,er at a golf tournament, the domestic abuse incident with Colleen Crowley, repeated violations of the substance abuse policy, and so forth NOT bad league PR?

On a macro level, this simply doesn't compare to Kaep's situation.

Manziel has issues many many players have had before him... he will get back or fade away on his own accord.  And the league won't miss a beat either way.

Kaep's scenario isn't even about Kaep.  It is bigger than the player, the team, the league.  He has become a social movement.  It threatens the league, it arguably has and could continue to hurt the league.

Not even close.

Edited March 28, 2018 by matuski

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

11 hours ago, matuski said:

 

Kaep's scenario isn't even about Kaep.  It is bigger than the player, the team, the league.  He has become a social movement.  It threatens the league, it arguably has and could continue to hurt the league.

 

 

  I especially liked the “threatens the league” part.

[matuski 5,023]

56 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

  I especially liked the “threatens the league” part.

Whether the threat is real or not.. the NFL has objectively reacted to it as such.  Not really a debate.

Whereas Manziel is free to jump off his cliff, the NFL wouldn't notice.

Edited March 28, 2018 by matuski

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

7 minutes ago, matuski said:

Whether the threat is real or not.. the NFL has objectively reacted to it as such.  Not really a debate.

Whereas Manziel is free to jump off his cliff, the NFL wouldn't notice.

 

No, they didn’t. They responded to it as a business decision,  Kaepernick chose to use time when he was on the clock, wearing the team uniform, on a venue leased by the team to make a highly volitile personal political statement, and it cost the team and the league money.  The team and the league elected to eliminate the loss of capital as well as rid themselves of an employee who appropriated team resources to his own end.  Pretty simple really.  

 

That you don’t believe it is not up for debate does not make that true, no matter how strongly you believe it.

 

.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Bronco Billy

[matuski 5,023]

6 minutes ago, Bronco Billy said:

 

No, they didn’t. They responded to it as a business decision,  Kaepernick chose to use time when he was on the clock, wearing the team uniform, on a venue leased by the team to make a highly volitile personal political statement, and it cost the team and the league money.  The team and the league elected to eliminate the loss of capital as well as rid themselves of an employee who appropriated team resources to his own end.  Pretty simple really.  

 

That you don’t believe it is not up for debate does not make that true, no matter how strongly you believe it.

 

.

What do you think a business decision involves?  Hah.

You just painted the picture of the threat and how they reacted to it (their business decision) in great detail.  Thank you.

eta - The threat isn't gone, and they continue to be forced into "business decisions" by Kaep's movement.  Perhaps "legal decisions" better describes those business decisions now.  

Kaep = leaguewide concern.

Manziel = nobody is concerned at all really.

Edited March 28, 2018 by matuski

[Bronco Billy 2,667]

4 minutes ago, matuski said:

What do you think a business decision involves?  Hah.

You just painted the picture of the threat and how they reacted to it (their business decision) in great detail.  Thank you.

eta - The threat isn't gone, and they continue to be forced into "business decisions" by Kaep's movement.  Perhaps "legal decisions" better describes those business decisions now.  

Kaep = leaguewide concern.

Manziel = nobody is concerned at all really.

 

I guess we’re defining the word threat differently.  I don’t see making a decision to eliminate a capital loss as a response to a threat.  That’s a pretty wide lasso there.

[matuski 5,023]

Just now, Bronco Billy said:

 

I guess we’re defining the word threat differently.  I don’t see making a decision to eliminate a capital loss as a response to a threat.  That’s a pretty wide lasso there.

I think we are agreeing.

The threat was/is capital loss (really the only threat the owners would care about.. the bottom line).  With Kaep that potentially exists on a league-wide scale.

The only capital being lost by Johnny is now his own.  Worst case at a team level to whoever pays him.  Nobody is protesting/boycotting the league for a social movement based on Manziels douzhebaggery.

[Faust 5,647]

Johnny Manziel reflects on past trouble after Texas A&M pro day

Excerpt:

"I thought he looked better throwing the ball today than he did four years ago," said a veteran NFC scout who was at Manziel's pro day in 2014 and his Tuesday workout. "Better velocity, pretty good accuracy."

"The ball came out quickly," noted another scout who was also there four years ago and again on Tuesday. "And he looked relaxed."