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Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'


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RIP

His argument is pretty ridiculous, but there's really no reason to bring up Ferguson or the I can't breathe protests in response. Pretty poor taste here guys.

Every where I look I see Manziel listed as a combine winner. Seriously, WTF? Am I missing something here? The guy came in shorter, lighter and slower than expected. He also didn't throw a ball the whole time. We all knew he had good change of direction skills and the short shuttle is the only thing he did well at. Without seeing him throw, that performance was basically useless to me. It was also a rather disappointing outing from what I can see.

But boy did he interview great........I mean he knew peoples names and stuff........that ought to help him with making plays in the NFL.

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Rotoworld:

One NFL scout believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel is already a better passer than Russell Wilson.

"Hit or miss? What the hell are they talking about?" the scout told Bob McGinn. "He's a better passer than the guy (Russell Wilson) who won the Super Bowl, and he's got a better arm. Here comes the pressure, a guy breaks open and he finds the receiver. Does he have a gun? No. But he doesn't have a bad arm at all." The two are extremely different quarterback prospects, as Wilson did not improvise as often in college and is much more of an explosive mover when climbing the pocket. Manziel's pocket movement is his gift and his curse.
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Rotoworld:

One NFL scout believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel is already a better passer than Russell Wilson.

"Hit or miss? What the hell are they talking about?" the scout told Bob McGinn. "He's a better passer than the guy (Russell Wilson) who won the Super Bowl, and he's got a better arm. Here comes the pressure, a guy breaks open and he finds the receiver. Does he have a gun? No. But he doesn't have a bad arm at all." The two are extremely different quarterback prospects, as Wilson did not improvise as often in college and is much more of an explosive mover when climbing the pocket. Manziel's pocket movement is his gift and his curse.

I saw this quote in an earlier, longer post and found it laughable. Maybe he meant Manziel has a better arm than Dilfer (I jest), but Wilson threw in the mid 50's at the combine and low 90's as a part-time closer at NC State. His arm is well above average in strength and he can make all the throws required in the NFL (and has). It remains to be seen if Manziel can do so, but I would question it based on his college tape. He really seems to torque his body an awful lot to make downfield passes.To say Manziel is a better passer is a completely different statement all together and makes me wonder what this scout is looking at (and who he is working for).

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Rotoworld:

Based on tape study, NFL Films' Greg Cosell believes Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel faces long odds of success in the pros because his game is so reliant on "making plays outside of structure."

On tape, Cosell was taken aback by "how many balls (Manziel) does not throw to open receivers," and that he abandons the pocket even when he "does not need to." Opined Cosell, "I think it's very hard in the NFL to live on the edge when you don't need to. If you live on the edge too often, you will fall off the cliff, in my view, in the NFL." Cosell believes Manziel's tendency to move and/or abandon the pocket is not comparable to Russell Wilson's, who does it in a "structured" manner. "When it's third-and-six, and Russell Wilson sees he can run for eight yards and get a first down, he just runs for eight yards and gets out of bounds," Cosell explained. "There's a purpose to his movement. Now I'm interpreting Johnny Manziel on film, but quite frankly, when he moves I see a guy who moves, and then tries to figure it out. And I'm not sure that that works in the NFL."
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Rotoworld:

The Florida Times Union sees the chances of the Jaguars taking Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel with the No. 3 overall pick in May's draft as "remote."

Beat writer Ryan O'Halloran has "always seen that as remote and still do(es)." The Jaguars want to feature a strong run game and employ a quarterback who has a "big arm to take shots downfield." O'Halloran also cites Manziel's durability concerns. The Jags seem to prefer Blake Bortles or Teddy Bridgewater.
Related: Jaguars
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Excerpt from Peter King's MMQB:

The game is changing, which is why Johnny Manziel has a chance to win.

Last week, former quarterbacks and current tape students Ron Jaworski and Phil Simms both came out as skeptics of Johnny Manziel. I liked it. If you’re an analyst and don’t voice your real opinion, what good are you? And there is much work to be done by the teams in the top eight that need a quarterback (Houston, Jacksonville, Cleveland, Oakland, Minnesota and maybe Tampa Bay). Last week, Manziel’s quarterback coach, George Whitfield, said they are focusing on Manziel’s throwing and decision-making from the pocket as they prepare for his pro-day workout on March 27. Manziel was such a wild stallion as a quarterback at Texas A&M, often leaving the pocket early instead of staying home. But it is folly to say he hasn’t played well at times in the pocket; some of his best plays—though maybe not always with good footwork—came with traffic around him, and Manziel finding the receiver he needed to find. But Whitfield knows you don’t want to neuter all of his instincts and you don’t want him exposed to the number of hits he faced in college either.

The people I spoke with at the combine who have an interest in drafting a quarterback want to see Manziel play better when hemmed in, as he was against LSU last year. I find it interesting that Nick Saban didn’t emphasize keeping Manziel inside the tackle box (or if he did, it just didn’t work) the way LSU coach Les Miles did. Check out how Manziel did in his two meetings against LSU and Alabama. Saban, I would argue, is the biggest test for a quarterback in college football, given his track record on the pro and college levels.

(click on the linked article to see the comparison)

“I understand he’s not for all 32 teams,” said Phil Savage, the color man on Alabama radio broadcasts, executive director of the Senior Bowl and former NFL GM with the Browns. “But he’s so instinctive, such a playmaker and such a smart football player that I think there have to be a few teams that think, We can shape our offense around him and use his skills for what he does best. We can win with him.”

My guess, two-plus months out from the draft: Jacksonville, at number three, or Oakland, at five, make the most sense. If I’m Jags offensive coordinator Jedd Fisch, who is one of the most imaginative young coaches in the game, I’d love to get my hands on Manziel.

Excerpt from Peter King's MMQB:

“Russell Wilson is more explosive. He’s naturally bigger and stronger than Johnny Manziel. They’re not even close in arm strength.”

—Phil Simms, to Adam Schein of SiriusXM’s Mad Dog Radio.

Not even close? Simms is a scientist of the position, and he has watched 1,000 hours of tape for every one I have watched. But did he see the Manziel strike, while off-balance, that traveled 44 yards in the air to Mike Evans against Alabama? Or the one that went 53 yards in the air downfield, also a strike, against Arkansas?

I suppose Wilson would win a throwing contest against Manziel. But it would be close.

Edited by Faust
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Rotoworld:

NFL.com's Albert Breer "found a little more doubt than I thought I would" when he asked around about Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel.

"Several folks mentioned Kyle Shanahan as someone who could make it work," wrote Breer. That potential marriage would happen in Cleveland, an organization that is reportedly very interested. Shanahan, of course, mentored another wildly talented but unconventional QB in Robert Griffin III with the Redskins.
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Johnny Manziel's speed coach says Aggie is quickest QB in draft

By Bill Bradley, contributing editor

Famed NFL executive Bill Polian likes to say that you can't teach speed. Ryan Flaherty quickly disagrees.

Flaherty is a speed coach. With a background in kinesiology and USA Track & Field research, he trains more than 80 NFL athletes to increase and maintain their speed.

"Everyone will say, 'You can't teach speed,' " Flaherty said. "The problem is no one is paying attention to the science and research. The science and research is there. I'm just saying open your eyes.

"When you look into the science, it's very simple and very clear. Many people try to make it too complicated. But I can take anyone who doesn't know anything about sports and make them faster. It's that basic."

This winter Texas A&M quarterback and NFL prospect Johnny Manziel has been one of Flaherty's prized pupils. Manziel ran the 40-yard dash in 4.68 seconds at the NFL Scouting Combine last month. That would put Manziel in the same neighborhood as veteran NFL quarterbacks Andrew Luck (4.66) of the Indianapolis Colts and Cam Newton (4.59) of the Carolina Panthers.

More important to Flaherty, Manziel's quickness was on display at the combine. The possible No. 1 pick was second among quarterbacks in the three-cone drill (6.75 seconds) and first by 15 seconds in the 20-yard shuttle (4.03 seconds).

"Johnny is as quick as it gets," Flaherty said. "He is the quickest (quarterback) in this draft by a lot. If you look at the shuttle and the three-cone run ... the only guy who might be quicker than him is (Northern Illinois quarterback) Jordan Lynch -- and he will probably play receiver in the NFL.

"Quickness is what football is all about. Yeah, the 40-yard dash time is great for the defensive backs and the wide receivers, but no other player on the field is ever going to run past 10 yards -- and if they do, it's rare. I was pleased with Johnny's 40, but more of the focus needs to be on his agility drills. That's really what his position is doing."

Speed and quickness is a way of life for Flaherty. He is the founder and CEO of Prolific Athletes, an athletic performance training company based in Carlsbad, Calif.

According to his website, his athletes at the 2013 combine had the fastest 3-cone drill and 20-yard shuttle times in three different position categories: quarterback, offensive lineman and linebackers. He prides himself on his ability to drastically increase the speed of NFL players by improving their sprint mechanics.

He said his work isn't done after the combine. He is now training NFL prospects for their pro days. Then, he said, more than 60 veterans will return to see him for speed training during their off-season conditioning.

"It's all body mechanics," he said. "All that force you can generate getting into the ground in a way that's going to push you forward is the key to it. Just learning the technique is what helped me understand it, kind of breaking it down like a golf swing.

"When I got into college, I had two ACL injuries. Both injuries forced me to get surgeries and they kind of thrust me into understanding why I got hurt ... and what would have prevented this from happening."

He became a kinesiology major at Utah State and received his master's degree in bio motor and human movement science.

"That's what got me diving into how athletes are trained and where the training is falling short," he said.

He worked for USA Track & Field as its director of development for three years, studying science and research in speed. There he found the top indicator for speed by an elite sprinter was their force-to-weight ratio. In other words, the greater the force in which they exerted -- in some cases up to a 10-1 ratio to their body weight -- the faster they ran.

He also found a correlation in lower-body deadlifts, discovering he could increase athletes' speed by building their power in their legs with heavier weights and shorter repetitions. He learned that would build the proper muscle mass without causing the body to face a long recovery period. And the athletes don't come back sore the next day.

That's the philosophy he took to improving Manziel's speed.

"We focused on was improving his deadlift while keeping his body weight the same," said Flaherty, who also has worked with the Whitfield Quarterback Draft Academy. "If he was to gain 20 pounds and his deadlifts went up 80 pounds, the ratio would stay the same and he would not get any faster.

"The key is keeping the volume in the weight room low so they don't tear down the muscle. ... We do our deadlifts in reps of two or three or five with lots of rest in between to make sure they're not breaking down the muscle and don't add lean muscle mass. But they just create better muscle fiber and better motor units to help withstand the heavier stress and the heavier load."

Flaherty said when Manziel came to his studios after the season he had a 515-pound deadlift maximum. Manziel left for the combine with a maximum of 680 pounds.

"You could give me any athlete -- I don't care their genetic makeup -- and in six weeks I could improve their 40-yard dash by half a second," Flaherty said. "It's all because of force-to-weight ratio. I'm not just training them for the combine.

"The speed that they're developing in the weight room and on the field, it's to help them to become better football players for their career. This is real speed. Once I get that ratio to where I want it and where they feel like it's the best for them as a football player, that's what they'll maintain for their whole career and that will keep them the same speed."

So who among this year's rookie class will burst onto the NFL scene because of speed? Flaherty says it will be another one of his students -- and Manziel's Texas A&M teammate -- wide receiver Mike Evans.

"Everyone going into the combine thought he was going to run a 4.65 and he ended up running a 4.47 (unofficial) and a 4.53," Flaherty said. "He is a monster. He could be one of the top receivers in the league in his first 2-3 years in the NFL based on his size, his speed and his ability.

"I've worked with a lot of really good receivers. And he is going to be as good if not better than all of them."

Edited by Faust
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Rotoworld:

Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel didn't interview with the Browns at the combine.

"We didn't speak to him at the combine," Browns coach Mike Pettine said. "I didn't personally. He was not part of the formal interviews." This news gives some credence to NFL Media analyst Daniel Jeremiah's report last week that Cleveland's new brass isn't as sold on Johnny Football as the old one. Pettine hedged a bit, adding that the Browns could circle back to Manziel. "As we evaluate those positions, we'll make sure that whatever access or interaction we need with that player, we'll get that done." The Browns sit at No. 4 and No. 26 in the first round. Jeremiah's report last week indicated that Cleveland was targeting Fresno State's Derek Carr with the latter of those two selections. One thing is certain: Cleveland will exit May's first round in possession of a brand new signal-caller.
Source: NFL.com
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Assuming the usual top suspects are off the board (no Mack), would MIN be more likely to take Manziel (stock down?), Carr (stock up?) or a BPA defender like Donald, Barr or Gilbert?

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Assuming the usual top suspects are off the board (no Mack), would MIN be more likely to take Manziel (stock down?), Carr (stock up?) or a BPA defender like Donald, Barr or Gilbert?

I think they take BPA non-QB and attempt a trade up late in the first or early second and go after Zach Mettenberger who fits Norv's offense perfectly. I don't think ADP has much influence when all is said and done on who is the QB of the Vikings.

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Go BPA and draft Garrapolo or sign Vick and draft a QB next year

lol @ Garrapolo. Had a private workout in front of Jim Harbaugh and another NFL HC yesterday and they walked out on it halfway thru. Vick? more lol.

Where'd you hear that?

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Go BPA and draft Garrapolo or sign Vick and draft a QB next year

lol @ Garrapolo. Had a private workout in front of Jim Harbaugh and another NFL HC yesterday and they walked out on it halfway thru. Vick? more lol.

Where'd you hear that?

I don't have access to my twitter account. I think it was Brugler, but it could be one of a bunch of NFL twitter accounts I follow. If I can copy paste it later I will do that.

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Go BPA and draft Garrapolo or sign Vick and draft a QB next year

lol @ Garrapolo. Had a private workout in front of Jim Harbaugh and another NFL HC yesterday and they walked out on it halfway thru. Vick? more lol.

Where'd you hear that?

I don't have access to my twitter account. I think it was Brugler, but it could be one of a bunch of NFL twitter accounts I follow. If I can copy paste it later I will do that.

The only account I can find on Google is harbaugh tossing the rock with him at his pro day at Northwestern 2 days ago.
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to be fair

Cleveland Browns didn't formally interview Johnny Manziel or any other QB at combine

Edited by B-Deep
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Go BPA and draft Garrapolo or sign Vick and draft a QB next year

lol @ Garrapolo. Had a private workout in front of Jim Harbaugh and another NFL HC yesterday and they walked out on it halfway thru. Vick? more lol.

If I really liked a guy that's what I'd do. :shrug:

What does it say that Harbaugh flew all the way to Northwestern to see him?

Edited by cstu
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Go BPA and draft Garrapolo or sign Vick and draft a QB next year

lol @ Garrapolo. Had a private workout in front of Jim Harbaugh and another NFL HC yesterday and they walked out on it halfway thru. Vick? more lol.

If I really liked a guy that's what I'd do. :shrug:

What does it say that Harbaugh flew all the way to Northwestern to see him?

I dont know what it means. Last year the big story in Philly was how the HC, GM and owner went to go see Geno Smith for a second time....only to pass on him a couple of times in the draft :shrug:

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Go BPA and draft Garrapolo or sign Vick and draft a QB next year

lol @ Garrapolo. Had a private workout in front of Jim Harbaugh and another NFL HC yesterday and they walked out on it halfway thru. Vick? more lol.

He urgently needed to call Balkie and tell him to forget about paying Kap 18 M a year. ;-) Edited by Donnybrook
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Taylor Martinez displays exceptional athleticism

Taylor Martinez played quarterback at Nebraska — starting 43 games at the position during four seasons with the Cornhuskers — but might be a man without a position as an NFL draft hopeful. Martinez (6-foot 1/4, 201 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.45 and 4.6 seconds. He had a 39-inch vertical jump and 10-foot-9 broad jump. He had a 20-yard short shuttle time of 4.03 seconds and did the three-cone drill in 6.85 seconds. All of those numbers with the exception of the three-cone would have either been the best among quarterbacks or matched the best among quarterbacks at the NFL Scouting Combine. Martinez worked out as a quarterback, wide receiver and defensive back at Nebraska’s pro day. Some ...http://bigtimefootball.com/football/taylor-martinez-displays-exceptional-athleticism/

Johnny Football must be envious of those numbers.

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Taylor Martinez displays exceptional athleticism

Taylor Martinez played quarterback at Nebraska — starting 43 games at the position during four seasons with the Cornhuskers — but might be a man without a position as an NFL draft hopeful. Martinez (6-foot 1/4, 201 pounds) ran the 40-yard dash in 4.45 and 4.6 seconds. He had a 39-inch vertical jump and 10-foot-9 broad jump. He had a 20-yard short shuttle time of 4.03 seconds and did the three-cone drill in 6.85 seconds. All of those numbers with the exception of the three-cone would have either been the best among quarterbacks or matched the best among quarterbacks at the NFL Scouting Combine. Martinez worked out as a quarterback, wide receiver and defensive back at Nebraska’s pro day. Some ...http://bigtimefootball.com/football/taylor-martinez-displays-exceptional-athleticism/

Johnny Football must be envious of those numbers.

Considering that he plays quarterback, I doubt it.

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Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler would not select Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel in the top 25.

"I've gone back and watched and re-watched Johnny Manziel - and I still grade him the same," Brugler tweeted. The draft analyst still ranks Teddy Bridgewater No. 1 overall and Blake Bortles at No. 9. In fact, Brugler listed Derek Carr over Manziel in his last set of rankings. The expectation is for Manziel to be a top 10 pick, but anything is possible for such a unique talent.
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Regardless of this opinion, Moon is a moron.

Including this opinion, Moon is a moron.

Do I need to point out the irony of Moon choosing to compare players based on their skin color?

No because he didn't.

Which two of these three are most alike?

72% completion, 4300 yards, 10.7 YPA, 37 TD, 6 INT, 699 rushing yards (3.9), 10 rushing TD

70% completion, 4114 yards, 9.6 YPA, 37 TD, 13 INT, 759 rushing yards (5.3), 9 rushing TD

69% completion, 2900 yards, 9.2 YPA, 21 TD, 5 INT, 910 rushing yards (4.2), 14 rushing TD

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In Superflex leagues, regardless of whether you believe in the guy or not, as long as he's drafted in the top half of the 1st round (or maybe the 1st round period) he's a lock to go top-3, right? Sitting at #3 in such a league I'm eagerly anticipating one of Bridgewater, Manziel, or Watkins being my pick. Unless one of Bortles or Carr or somebody goes appreciably higher in the draft than those two.

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In Superflex leagues, regardless of whether you believe in the guy or not, as long as he's drafted in the top half of the 1st round (or maybe the 1st round period) he's a lock to go top-3, right? Sitting at #3 in such a league I'm eagerly anticipating one of Bridgewater, Manziel, or Watkins being my pick. Unless one of Bortles or Carr or somebody goes appreciably higher in the draft than those two.

Bump. Anyone with a top-3 Superflex pick thinking this way?

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In Superflex leagues, regardless of whether you believe in the guy or not, as long as he's drafted in the top half of the 1st round (or maybe the 1st round period) he's a lock to go top-3, right? Sitting at #3 in such a league I'm eagerly anticipating one of Bridgewater, Manziel, or Watkins being my pick. Unless one of Bortles or Carr or somebody goes appreciably higher in the draft than those two.

Bump. Anyone with a top-3 Superflex pick thinking this way?
Not a super flex but a start 2 dynasty. Yes, he will go top 3. Unless he plummets on Draft Day.
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In Superflex leagues, regardless of whether you believe in the guy or not, as long as he's drafted in the top half of the 1st round (or maybe the 1st round period) he's a lock to go top-3, right? Sitting at #3 in such a league I'm eagerly anticipating one of Bridgewater, Manziel, or Watkins being my pick. Unless one of Bortles or Carr or somebody goes appreciably higher in the draft than those two.

Bump. Anyone with a top-3 Superflex pick thinking this way?
Not a super flex but a start 2 dynasty. Yes, he will go top 3. Unless he plummets on Draft Day.

That's what I figured. I know I'll be looking at him there. There are just a lot of people who do NOT like him as a prospect.

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In Superflex leagues, regardless of whether you believe in the guy or not, as long as he's drafted in the top half of the 1st round (or maybe the 1st round period) he's a lock to go top-3, right? Sitting at #3 in such a league I'm eagerly anticipating one of Bridgewater, Manziel, or Watkins being my pick. Unless one of Bortles or Carr or somebody goes appreciably higher in the draft than those two.

Bump. Anyone with a top-3 Superflex pick thinking this way?

You have to take him.

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I just saw on ESPN that Manziel's completion percentage was 74% in 2013. Did I see that right? That's pretty high.

The more I look into this kid. The more I feel like he is going to be a very good NFL QB, and even better, possibly top, FF QB depending on your league rules. Other than height and a slightly disappointing combine, I can't knock his game. He is not Tim Tebow - Manziel has a good arm. Tim did not have a strong or accurate arm. Manziel's arm is better than I realized when I started analyzing him.

Now the caveats... IF he stays healthy (? will he learn how to avoid big NFL hits) and IF he does not blow it by off field stuff and locker room antics. Friends of mine think he's headed for a Ryan Leaf meltdown. But Leaf was fragile and so defensive that he would lash out at everyone when he sucked on the field. I like players who have a strong enough sense of self to own their on field mistakes. I think Manziel has that based on interviews. The guy seems like a fierce competitor and definitely not fragile.

I started out thinking that Manziel was way overrated. Now I am thinking he is underrated. If he falls into a good spot, like the Vikings at 8, then I am going to be considering him in the top 5 picks of rookie drafts, possibly as high as 3 after Watkins and Evans. Especially if the RBs who look pretty average at best this year do not go to good spots.

Count me in as a believer. Based on how skeptical I was starting out, I'm shocked I am writing this. But I do believe now. Could he bust? Absolutely, that is why draft picks are risky. That said, I think why not roll the dice this year on a guy who could be truly special in terms of FF and real NFL. I'm taking the risk on him this year. Maybe with my 1.3. And I need RBs. So yes, I like him a lot.

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I just saw on ESPN that Manziel's completion percentage was 74% in 2013. Did I see that right? That's pretty high.

The more I look into this kid. The more I feel like he is going to be a very good NFL QB, and even better, possibly top, FF QB depending on your league rules. Other than height and a slightly disappointing combine, I can't knock his game. He is not Tim Tebow - Manziel has a good arm. Tim did not have a strong or accurate arm. Manziel's arm is better than I realized when I started analyzing him.

Now the caveats... IF he stays healthy (? will he learn how to avoid big NFL hits) and IF he does not blow it by off field stuff and locker room antics. Friends of mine think he's headed for a Ryan Leaf meltdown. But Leaf was fragile and so defensive that he would lash out at everyone when he sucked on the field. I like players who have a strong enough sense of self to own their on field mistakes. I think Manziel has that based on interviews. The guy seems like a fierce competitor and definitely not fragile.

I started out thinking that Manziel was way overrated. Now I am thinking he is underrated. If he falls into a good spot, like the Vikings at 8, then I am going to be considering him in the top 5 picks of rookie drafts, possibly as high as 3 after Watkins and Evans. Especially if the RBs who look pretty average at best this year do not go to good spots.

Count me in as a believer. Based on how skeptical I was starting out, I'm shocked I am writing this. But I do believe now. Could he bust? Absolutely, that is why draft picks are risky. That said, I think why not roll the dice this year on a guy who could be truly special in terms of FF and real NFL. I'm taking the risk on him this year. Maybe with my 1.3. And I need RBs. So yes, I like him a lot.

Is this league a superflex or 2QB? That's the only way it makes sense.

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Greg Cosell had a great little comment on him. He said he would make a video cut up of all the plays where Manziel ignored an open receiver, and did some crazy Johnny Football stuff, and ask Johnny to explain the play to him.

His point was Johnny was doing improvisational stuff when he didn't need to, and that living on the edge, when you didn't need to, was not a recipe for success. I certainly agree with that.

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Greg Cosell had a great little comment on him. He said he would make a video cut up of all the plays where Manziel ignored an open receiver, and did some crazy Johnny Football stuff, and ask Johnny to explain the play to him.

His point was Johnny was doing improvisational stuff when he didn't need to, and that living on the edge, when you didn't need to, was not a recipe for success. I certainly agree with that.

I haven't watched a ton of JM. Does he do this all that much more than other guys? He's not the only quarterback in history to miss that a receiver is open.

it's been asked before but are people just engaging in confirmation bias now?

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  • Faust changed the title to Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'

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