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Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'


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RIP

His argument is pretty ridiculous, but there's really no reason to bring up Ferguson or the I can't breathe protests in response. Pretty poor taste here guys.

Ross Tucker: Johnny Football doesn't fit the Texans


Johnny Manziel is not going to be the Houston Texans' No. 1 pick in May's NFL Draft.


It doesn't matter how his pro day is graded. It’s not going to really sway the Texans’ already-formed opinion of Manziel as a player and person. Chances are, they’ve already decided they are going to look elsewhere for their franchise quarterback.


This isn't based on inside information. No "sources" to speak of. This is just a strong suspicion based on new Texans coach Bill O'Brien's track record with quarterbacks. It would be stunning if he hitched his wagon to Manziel.


Let's start with Manziel as a player. He's a spectacular playmaker, one of the best the college game has ever seen, but he often operates outside of the confines of the offense. His critics note how often he scrambles, failing to deliver the football in a timely manner to open players. That's going to be much tougher to pull off at the NFL level.


Even if he could pull it off, more often than not Manziel's freestyle play is the oil to O'Brien's offensive system vinegar.



Look at O'Brien's last three quarterbacks. As the Patriots’ offensive coordinator, he coached Tom Brady, who operates that offense as efficiently as anybody ever has.


Former Penn State walk-on Matt McGloin is now with the Oakland Raiders primarily because of O’Brien’s work with him. Last season, Christian Hackenberg had a tremendous freshman season running O'Brien's offense about as well as a first-year player could be expected to.


The mere fact that O'Brien chose McGloin as his starter in 2012 over more athletic but less efficient quarterbacks is telling. Recruiting a pure pocket passer with limited mobility instead of more athletic playmaking signal callers as his first big recruit at Penn State tells me even more about what O'Brien covets at the game's most important position.


Then there's the off-the-field stuff. Even if you believe Manziel's comments that he has matured, it's hard to believe them. Consider this quote about the possibility of the Texans passing on him:


"It would be the worst decision they've ever made," Manziel told the Houston Chronicle in February, "I'd be in the same division playing against them twice a year (if Jacksonville took him). Sorry, but you just turned that chip on my shoulder from a Frito into a Dorito."


Do you really think O'Brien wants to take a guy who is making comments that are presumably designed to put public pressure on the organization? Even if that wasn't his intention it's still not the type of comment that most teams would want to see their potential franchise quarterback make.


It’s yet another reason why the Houston Texans aren't going to draft Johnny Manziel.


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Ross Tucker: Johnny Football doesn't fit the Texans

Johnny Manziel is not going to be the Houston Texans' No. 1 pick in May's NFL Draft.

It doesn't matter how his pro day is graded. It’s not going to really sway the Texans’ already-formed opinion of Manziel as a player and person. Chances are, they’ve already decided they are going to look elsewhere for their franchise quarterback.

This isn't based on inside information. No "sources" to speak of. This is just a strong suspicion based on new Texans coach Bill O'Brien's track record with quarterbacks. It would be stunning if he hitched his wagon to Manziel.

Let's start with Manziel as a player. He's a spectacular playmaker, one of the best the college game has ever seen, but he often operates outside of the confines of the offense. His critics note how often he scrambles, failing to deliver the football in a timely manner to open players. That's going to be much tougher to pull off at the NFL level.

Even if he could pull it off, more often than not Manziel's freestyle play is the oil to O'Brien's offensive system vinegar.

Look at O'Brien's last three quarterbacks. As the Patriots’ offensive coordinator, he coached Tom Brady, who operates that offense as efficiently as anybody ever has.

Former Penn State walk-on Matt McGloin is now with the Oakland Raiders primarily because of O’Brien’s work with him. Last season, Christian Hackenberg had a tremendous freshman season running O'Brien's offense about as well as a first-year player could be expected to.

The mere fact that O'Brien chose McGloin as his starter in 2012 over more athletic but less efficient quarterbacks is telling. Recruiting a pure pocket passer with limited mobility instead of more athletic playmaking signal callers as his first big recruit at Penn State tells me even more about what O'Brien covets at the game's most important position.

Then there's the off-the-field stuff. Even if you believe Manziel's comments that he has matured, it's hard to believe them. Consider this quote about the possibility of the Texans passing on him:

"It would be the worst decision they've ever made," Manziel told the Houston Chronicle in February, "I'd be in the same division playing against them twice a year (if Jacksonville took him). Sorry, but you just turned that chip on my shoulder from a Frito into a Dorito."

Do you really think O'Brien wants to take a guy who is making comments that are presumably designed to put public pressure on the organization? Even if that wasn't his intention it's still not the type of comment that most teams would want to see their potential franchise quarterback make.

It’s yet another reason why the Houston Texans aren't going to draft Johnny Manziel.

:thumbup: This guy.

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Sounds like Johnny thinks the Jags are hot for him.

I think that could be a good landing spot for him. Warm weather climate that he is accustomed to. There is a decent quality and depth of offensive talent in this draft, and the Jaguars are committed to making draft picks on the offensive line and at WR:

2014 Jaguars draft: Expect offensive heavy picks

The wildcards would be a rebound from Cecil Shorts (staying healthy) and Blackmon getting his act together (I won't hold my breath on that one) and being reinstated by the NFL.

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Mayock: Johnny Manziel would be my pick if I needed a QB

By Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

The latest stop on the Johnny Manziel reality show made its way to the familiar setting of College Station on Thursday for the star quarterback's pro day.

The well-attended affair drew rave reviews from those in attendance, including scouts, analysts and even a former world leader. Despite the talent Manziel flashed at the Texas A&M indoor facility, where he ends up in the 2014 NFL Draft continues to be as unpredictable as it was earlier in the week. But for NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock, Manziel's pro day provided him with a clear answer.

"If I'm a GM in the top 10 and I had to take a quarterback today, it would be Johnny Manziel," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "A lot of it is on the strength of defensive coordinators not wanting to deal with that style of play, and me buying into the kid. I'm buying into the kid as a competitor more than anything."

Manziel was rated by Mayock as the draft's second-best quarterback when his positional rankings were released at the beginning of the month, but there's little doubt Manziel saw his stock go up with the throwing session. With eight head coaches in attendance at the pro day and a number of teams hunting for quarterbacks in the top 10, a few general managers might have to start thinking about moving up in the draft if teams continue to fall in love with the most interesting prospect in years.

"I think it's that X-factor that makes you go, 'Can we afford to pass on him? Can we allow someone else to get that X-factor?'" NFL Network's Kurt Warner said. "I still believe you're not going to be able to answer the questions you're going to need to answer until he's on the field, in that setting, reading defenses and showing he can do that.

"He showed us that special factor again today that we look at and go, 'That doesn't come around very often.'"

That's one reason why Manziel was able to become the first freshman (he was a redshirt) to win the Heisman Trophy two years ago, and why he confounded defenses in the mighty SEC, to the point where coaches are probably relieved to see him go.

Current NFL.com mock drafts have Manziel going anywhere from No. 5 to the Raiders to No. 8 the Vikings. The Texans, already on the clock, remain a possibility if Bill O'Brien and company opt to go that route.

"I think we confirmed today his arm strength -- it's fine," Mayock said. "It's every bit as good as [blake] Bortles or anyone we've seen this year. Mechanically, he can make any throw an NFL quarterback has to make.

"The final piece of the puzzle you can't figure out in a pro day is, when you put the pads on in September and play in the NFL, is he willing and able to win from the pocket?"

The clock is ticking for teams to make a decision on if Manziel can be their franchise quarterback. Based on his performance on Thursday it's possible more than one front office now thinks he can.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.

Makes me want to draft Manziel even less since Mayock doesn't know WTF he's talking about. For example, he rated Gabbert above Cam Newton a couple years ago: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/03/17/blaine-gabbert-pro-day/

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Mayock: Johnny Manziel would be my pick if I needed a QB

By Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

The latest stop on the Johnny Manziel reality show made its way to the familiar setting of College Station on Thursday for the star quarterback's pro day.

The well-attended affair drew rave reviews from those in attendance, including scouts, analysts and even a former world leader. Despite the talent Manziel flashed at the Texas A&M indoor facility, where he ends up in the 2014 NFL Draft continues to be as unpredictable as it was earlier in the week. But for NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock, Manziel's pro day provided him with a clear answer.

"If I'm a GM in the top 10 and I had to take a quarterback today, it would be Johnny Manziel," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "A lot of it is on the strength of defensive coordinators not wanting to deal with that style of play, and me buying into the kid. I'm buying into the kid as a competitor more than anything."

Manziel was rated by Mayock as the draft's second-best quarterback when his positional rankings were released at the beginning of the month, but there's little doubt Manziel saw his stock go up with the throwing session. With eight head coaches in attendance at the pro day and a number of teams hunting for quarterbacks in the top 10, a few general managers might have to start thinking about moving up in the draft if teams continue to fall in love with the most interesting prospect in years.

"I think it's that X-factor that makes you go, 'Can we afford to pass on him? Can we allow someone else to get that X-factor?'" NFL Network's Kurt Warner said. "I still believe you're not going to be able to answer the questions you're going to need to answer until he's on the field, in that setting, reading defenses and showing he can do that.

"He showed us that special factor again today that we look at and go, 'That doesn't come around very often.'"

That's one reason why Manziel was able to become the first freshman (he was a redshirt) to win the Heisman Trophy two years ago, and why he confounded defenses in the mighty SEC, to the point where coaches are probably relieved to see him go.

Current NFL.com mock drafts have Manziel going anywhere from No. 5 to the Raiders to No. 8 the Vikings. The Texans, already on the clock, remain a possibility if Bill O'Brien and company opt to go that route.

"I think we confirmed today his arm strength -- it's fine," Mayock said. "It's every bit as good as [blake] Bortles or anyone we've seen this year. Mechanically, he can make any throw an NFL quarterback has to make.

"The final piece of the puzzle you can't figure out in a pro day is, when you put the pads on in September and play in the NFL, is he willing and able to win from the pocket?"

The clock is ticking for teams to make a decision on if Manziel can be their franchise quarterback. Based on his performance on Thursday it's possible more than one front office now thinks he can.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.

Makes me want to draft Manziel even less since Mayock doesn't know WTF he's talking about. For example, he rated Gabbert above Cam Newton a couple years ago: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/03/17/blaine-gabbert-pro-day/

While that was an epic fail mayock and others, it's a little irrelevant to whether manziel will be successful in the NFL.

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Mayock: Johnny Manziel would be my pick if I needed a QB

By Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

The latest stop on the Johnny Manziel reality show made its way to the familiar setting of College Station on Thursday for the star quarterback's pro day.

The well-attended affair drew rave reviews from those in attendance, including scouts, analysts and even a former world leader. Despite the talent Manziel flashed at the Texas A&M indoor facility, where he ends up in the 2014 NFL Draft continues to be as unpredictable as it was earlier in the week. But for NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock, Manziel's pro day provided him with a clear answer.

"If I'm a GM in the top 10 and I had to take a quarterback today, it would be Johnny Manziel," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "A lot of it is on the strength of defensive coordinators not wanting to deal with that style of play, and me buying into the kid. I'm buying into the kid as a competitor more than anything."

Manziel was rated by Mayock as the draft's second-best quarterback when his positional rankings were released at the beginning of the month, but there's little doubt Manziel saw his stock go up with the throwing session. With eight head coaches in attendance at the pro day and a number of teams hunting for quarterbacks in the top 10, a few general managers might have to start thinking about moving up in the draft if teams continue to fall in love with the most interesting prospect in years.

"I think it's that X-factor that makes you go, 'Can we afford to pass on him? Can we allow someone else to get that X-factor?'" NFL Network's Kurt Warner said. "I still believe you're not going to be able to answer the questions you're going to need to answer until he's on the field, in that setting, reading defenses and showing he can do that.

"He showed us that special factor again today that we look at and go, 'That doesn't come around very often.'"

That's one reason why Manziel was able to become the first freshman (he was a redshirt) to win the Heisman Trophy two years ago, and why he confounded defenses in the mighty SEC, to the point where coaches are probably relieved to see him go.

Current NFL.com mock drafts have Manziel going anywhere from No. 5 to the Raiders to No. 8 the Vikings. The Texans, already on the clock, remain a possibility if Bill O'Brien and company opt to go that route.

"I think we confirmed today his arm strength -- it's fine," Mayock said. "It's every bit as good as [blake] Bortles or anyone we've seen this year. Mechanically, he can make any throw an NFL quarterback has to make.

"The final piece of the puzzle you can't figure out in a pro day is, when you put the pads on in September and play in the NFL, is he willing and able to win from the pocket?"

The clock is ticking for teams to make a decision on if Manziel can be their franchise quarterback. Based on his performance on Thursday it's possible more than one front office now thinks he can.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.

Makes me want to draft Manziel even less since Mayock doesn't know WTF he's talking about. For example, he rated Gabbert above Cam Newton a couple years ago: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/03/17/blaine-gabbert-pro-day/

Do you have a source that predicts the future reliably? I could use a guy like that advising my business and portfolio.

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Johnny had a splashy Pro Day but what has really changed from when these comments were made?

Greg Cosell.

http://www.stationca...c=476&f=2405503

Johnny Manziel ah? I don’t think you breed recklessness out of a player. Michael Vick is living proof he played one year where he’s played all sixteen games. Everybody says, well we’ll just teach him how to slide. I don’t believe you coach recklessness out just like you can’t coach toughness in. You’re either tough or you’re not. You can always get a lil bit better at things but I don’t know if you can coach that stuff so Johnny Manziel is reckless with his body so I don’t think he’ll last either.

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ESPN analyst Mark Schleref.

http://www.stationca...c=476&f=2405503

Quote

Johnny Manziel ah? I don’t think you breed recklessness out of a player. Michael Vick is living proof he played one year where he’s played all sixteen games. Everybody says, well we’ll just teach him how to slide. I don’t believe you coach recklessness out just like you can’t coach toughness in. You’re either tough or you’re not. You can always get a lil bit better at things but I don’t know if you can coach that stuff so Johnny Manziel is reckless with his body so I don’t think he’ll last either.

Fair enough, but I think the Vikings would be happy with a good QB on a cheap contract for 5 years.

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ESPN analyst Mark Schleref.

http://www.stationca...c=476&f=2405503

Johnny Manziel ah? I don’t think you breed recklessness out of a player. Michael Vick is living proof he played one year where he’s played all sixteen games. Everybody says, well we’ll just teach him how to slide. I don’t believe you coach recklessness out just like you can’t coach toughness in. You’re either tough or you’re not. You can always get a lil bit better at things but I don’t know if you can coach that stuff so Johnny Manziel is reckless with his body so I don’t think he’ll last either.

I rather have a QB that is a little too reckless than a QB that is a little too wary of the pass rush (you know who I am talking about). I just think its easier to coach a guy to slide than to coach him to step up in the pocket etc.

Edited by Donnybrook
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The talk about Johnny Manziel chosing to wear a helmet and shoulder pads and a flack vest has gotten some play so here is an interesting photo question.

Does Johnny Manziel look bigger in pads than without?

A nice was to compare/contrast.

YOU DECIDE!

Pictures of Johnny Manziel in pads:

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/plain-dealer/photo/2014/03/-c38bb69e94e3a4da.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/e07801b5b9134d3aa9dda78008365969/460x.jpg

PIctures of Johnny Manziel without pads:

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Atticus+Shaffer+ABC+Middle+100th+Episode+Celebration+jmB82Sc6t7fl.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

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The talk about Johnny Manziel chosing to wear a helmet and shoulder pads and a flack vest has gotten some play so here is an interesting photo question.

Does Johnny Manziel look bigger in pads than without?

A nice was to compare/contrast.

YOU DECIDE!

Pictures of Johnny Manziel in pads:

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/plain-dealer/photo/2014/03/-c38bb69e94e3a4da.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/e07801b5b9134d3aa9dda78008365969/460x.jpg

PIctures of Johnny Manziel without pads:

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Atticus+Shaffer+ABC+Middle+100th+Episode+Celebration+jmB82Sc6t7fl.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

so he wore the pads and stuff to hid his size?

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The talk about Johnny Manziel chosing to wear a helmet and shoulder pads and a flack vest has gotten some play so here is an interesting photo question.

Does Johnny Manziel look bigger in pads than without?

A nice was to compare/contrast.

YOU DECIDE!

Pictures of Johnny Manziel in pads:

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/plain-dealer/photo/2014/03/-c38bb69e94e3a4da.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/e07801b5b9134d3aa9dda78008365969/460x.jpg

PIctures of Johnny Manziel without pads:

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Atticus+Shaffer+ABC+Middle+100th+Episode+Celebration+jmB82Sc6t7fl.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

:lol:

/Looks at floor and whispers "Johnny Football".

Edited by Andy Dufresne
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The talk about Johnny Manziel chosing to wear a helmet and shoulder pads and a flack vest has gotten some play so here is an interesting photo question.

Does Johnny Manziel look bigger in pads than without?

A nice was to compare/contrast.

YOU DECIDE!

Pictures of Johnny Manziel in pads:

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/plain-dealer/photo/2014/03/-c38bb69e94e3a4da.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/e07801b5b9134d3aa9dda78008365969/460x.jpg

PIctures of Johnny Manziel without pads:

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Atticus+Shaffer+ABC+Middle+100th+Episode+Celebration+jmB82Sc6t7fl.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

so he wore the pads and stuff to hid his size?

Im on board

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Mayock: Johnny Manziel would be my pick if I needed a QB

By Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

The latest stop on the Johnny Manziel reality show made its way to the familiar setting of College Station on Thursday for the star quarterback's pro day.

The well-attended affair drew rave reviews from those in attendance, including scouts, analysts and even a former world leader. Despite the talent Manziel flashed at the Texas A&M indoor facility, where he ends up in the 2014 NFL Draft continues to be as unpredictable as it was earlier in the week. But for NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock, Manziel's pro day provided him with a clear answer.

"If I'm a GM in the top 10 and I had to take a quarterback today, it would be Johnny Manziel," Mayock said on "Path to the Draft." "A lot of it is on the strength of defensive coordinators not wanting to deal with that style of play, and me buying into the kid. I'm buying into the kid as a competitor more than anything."

Manziel was rated by Mayock as the draft's second-best quarterback when his positional rankings were released at the beginning of the month, but there's little doubt Manziel saw his stock go up with the throwing session. With eight head coaches in attendance at the pro day and a number of teams hunting for quarterbacks in the top 10, a few general managers might have to start thinking about moving up in the draft if teams continue to fall in love with the most interesting prospect in years.

"I think it's that X-factor that makes you go, 'Can we afford to pass on him? Can we allow someone else to get that X-factor?'" NFL Network's Kurt Warner said. "I still believe you're not going to be able to answer the questions you're going to need to answer until he's on the field, in that setting, reading defenses and showing he can do that.

"He showed us that special factor again today that we look at and go, 'That doesn't come around very often.'"

That's one reason why Manziel was able to become the first freshman (he was a redshirt) to win the Heisman Trophy two years ago, and why he confounded defenses in the mighty SEC, to the point where coaches are probably relieved to see him go.

Current NFL.com mock drafts have Manziel going anywhere from No. 5 to the Raiders to No. 8 the Vikings. The Texans, already on the clock, remain a possibility if Bill O'Brien and company opt to go that route.

"I think we confirmed today his arm strength -- it's fine," Mayock said. "It's every bit as good as [blake] Bortles or anyone we've seen this year. Mechanically, he can make any throw an NFL quarterback has to make.

"The final piece of the puzzle you can't figure out in a pro day is, when you put the pads on in September and play in the NFL, is he willing and able to win from the pocket?"

The clock is ticking for teams to make a decision on if Manziel can be their franchise quarterback. Based on his performance on Thursday it's possible more than one front office now thinks he can.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.

Makes me want to draft Manziel even less since Mayock doesn't know WTF he's talking about. For example, he rated Gabbert above Cam Newton a couple years ago: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/don_banks/03/17/blaine-gabbert-pro-day/

No way I'd spend a first round pick on a 5'11" QB that depends on broken plays.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2007370-dan-pompeis-read-option-how-will-michael-vick-fit-in-with-the-jets#articles/2007370-dan-pompeis-read-option-how-will-michael-vick-fit-in-with-the-jets

Scout Talk

The draft class has a number of prospects who are smaller than ideal. Many of these players will be downgraded significantly by some teams, but not by others, because undersized players need to be scheme fits. Here is what NFL front-office men are saying about some of the little guys.

... Johnny Manziel, Texas A&M, 5'11.75", 207 pounds, QB

In terms of ball security, he is helped by the fact that he has big (9.875-inch hands). But given Manziel’s small frame and his penchant for playing outside the pocket and running, one scout said he thinks injuries will be an issue.

“He scares me,” one scout said. “I wouldn’t take him in the first.” Some team is likely to, however.

Last year about this time Cold Hard Football Facts did an in-depth historical study of QB hieght to try and figure out if hieght, or lack thereof was a proven statistical detriment.

I got the text but their are lots of tables that didn't transfer so click on the link for the full read.

This is what they found out.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/content/tall-task-does-height-matter-for-nfl-quarterbacks/22067/

Tall Task: Does Height Matter For NFL Quarterbacks?
Cold, Hard Football Facts for Apr 05, 2013
...Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were literally the biggest quarterbacks to ever compete on the big stage.

Flacco is 6’6” and Kaepernick is 6’5”, making them the first pair of quarterbacks at least 77 inches tall to meet in a Super Bowl. Flacco is the tallest quarterback to both start and win a Super Bowl.

With the 2013 draft around the corner, does this mean teams will only want to target the big signal callers?

Not exactly, but this questionable class is not welcoming any of the little guys anyway. Ryan Nassib and Tyler Wilson are 6’2”, Geno Smith and Matt Barkley are 6’3”, EJ Manuel is 6’5”, Tyler Bray is 6’6” and Mike Glennon is 6’7”.

There is no Russell Wilson to be found at the top of this draft, but it’s not like Wilson went at the top of last year’s draft either.

He was too short, which is about the laziest analysis you can give a player. But teams still apparently abide by it.

Not a single quarterback under 6’0” has been drafted in the first two rounds since the 5’10” Ted Marchibroda went No. 5 overall to Pittsburgh in 1953.

That was 60 years ago. That was back when the Steelers didn’t know what the hell they were doing in this league.

A quarterback can improve his accuracy and arm strength. He can increase his intellectual grasp of the game through study of film and his playbook. He can always become a better leader and field general.

But at this stage of life, a quarterback cannot improve his height. He’s stuck with that number.

Other physical attributes like his speed and arm strength will decrease over time, but he’s not getting any taller. Even Brett Favre left the game the same height he was when he entered it (unless you think his head got too big at the end).

Let’s look at how quarterback height has evolved and if bigger really is better.

Quarterback Stats vs. Height

We looked at the 214 quarterbacks with at least 1,000 career pass attempts in the regular season. Data on their height is available at Pro-Football-Reference. Stats are for only the regular season and are updated through the 2012 season. Obviously these numbers will continue to change with roughly 35 of these players set to be active in 2013

For the quarterbacks at least 6’0”, five of the seven groups maintain a passer rating around 77.0. That would suggest height is not correlated much with success.

The outliers are 6’5” (81.4) and 6’1” (71.7). You will see why that is when you see the quarterbacks included. Note that the 6’0” quarterbacks, though only 13 of them, have the best YPA (7.24) of any group. If a shorter player hangs onto a job long enough, he usually turns out to be pretty good.

The average height of the 214 quarterbacks is 74.6 inches, or just over 6’2”.

When it gets under 6’0”, the sample size drops to just seven players. The only 5’10” player is Doug Flutie, while the only 5’9” player is Eddie LeBaron, who did make four Pro Bowls with the Redskins and Cowboys.

... Nothing was even close to being significantly correlated with height (inches), but at least completion percentage and interception percentage since 2008 were close to .200, and they were negatively correlated at that. Thanks, Derek Anderson.

If you do the correlation for all 214 players, you get these results

.... Still nothing that screams bigger is better, but it is interesting how three of the values are negatively correlated with height. None are higher than interception percentage (-.435), which is a stat that has really decreased in recent seasons.

The best correlation actually belongs to the debut year (.498). It is true players are getting bigger and this table shows that increase in average quarterback height over time (for the 214 quarterbacks studied).

Under 6’0” Quarterbacks

This table shows the seven quarterbacks under 6’0”.

.... Jurgensen and Herber are in the Hall of Fame, but not much greatness here.

6’0 Quarterbacks

... Assuming Brees makes it, this group of 13 includes five Hall of Fame quarterbacks along with solid players like Joe Theismann, Billy Kilmer and Michael Vick

6’1 Quarterback

...There are seven Hall of Fame quarterbacks in this group, but since they are from an older era (Dave Krieg has the most attempts here), the overall stats are down. All of the Hall of Fame quarterbacks here debuted before 1970. There are also MVP winners in Brian Sipe and Earl Morrall.

If you adjusted the stats for era, this group would be one of the best, if not the best.

6’2” Quarterbacks

... The 6’2” quarterbacks with their compact size and mobility (at least in several cases) bring a lot of MVP awards and great statistics at the top here.

Basically the average-sized quarterback, consider the role mobility has played for the success of Aaron Rodgers, Steve Young, Joe Montana, Ken Anderson, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, and Tony Romo.

It’s early, but Robert Griffin III is another 6’2” quarterback with a rookie season that fits in well with the lofty company at the top.

Don’t forget the first great passer Sammy Baugh and the record-holding passer Brett Favre reside here. With all these young guns, the 6’2” quarterbacks should be the first to hit 1,000,000 passing yards combined.

6’3” Quarterbacks

... Highlighted by John Elway and Roger Staubach, there are plenty of good passers here, including a total of six Hall of Fame quarterbacks.

Though, there definitely are some of the worst quarterbacks to ever attempt 1,000 passes at 6’3”. Just look at several of the names at the bottom like Mike Phipps and Rick Mirer or a more recent bust like Kyle Boller.

6’4” Quarterbacks

... This group is very top heavy with Tom Brady and Dan Marino, but you also have multiple Super Bowl winners in Troy Aikman and Eli Manning.

Speaking of Marino, interesting to note you also have two of the worst quarterbacks to win a Super Bowl in Trent Dilfer and Doug Williams. It also has two of the most random Super Bowl starters with Mark Rypien and Chris Chandler.

Andrew Luck is a 6’4” quarterback. He is also the eighth No. 1 pick at quarterback that is 6’4”. That is the most for any height.

6’5” Quarterbacks

... Here is the group with the highest completion percentage (58.91 percent) and passer rating (81.4). It is easy to see why with so many active players driving up the numbers, including Peyton Manning. Even without Manning the group still has the best stats, though that’s still with four active players who have a rating of at least 90.0.

Though, this is a good collection of players. Jason Campbell is a bad quarterback, Elvis Grbac and Matt Cassel need to be in the right system to have any success, but the only true duds are the four players at the bottom.

The 6’5” quarterback is more of a recent trend, as only two of these players debuted before 1980. Only seven were before 1992.

As mentioned in the intro, Kaepernick is a 6’5” quarterback and one of the league’s rising stars.

6’6” Quarterbacks

... It would be hard not to admit there is a certain sense of clumsiness and head-scratching inconsistency with this group of five players.

Joe Flacco may not be a top 50 quarterback of all time just yet, but he can lay claim to being the “best big quarterback in NFL history.”

So, the Biggest Is Yet to Come?

No quarterbacks with at least 1,000 attempts were taller than 6’6”. Only five quarterbacks in NFL history are listed at 6’7” or taller according to Pro-Football-Reference. Two of them are rather insignificant.

Sonny Gibbs (6’7”) went in the second round of the 1962 NFL Draft, but he only threw three passes in his career; one going to the opponent. Frank Patrick (6’7”) was a 10th-round pick by the Packers in 1970. He threw 23 passes in his career.

Then you have Dan McGwire (6’8”), who is the tallest quarterback in NFL history. Brother of baseball player Mark, he was the first-round pick (16th overall) by Seattle in 1991, but had a brief and dreadful career. Consider the Seahawks gave up on him in favor of Rick Mirer (No. 2 pick in 1993 draft). Yikes.

Finally, is this a preview of the future field general, or will Ryan Mallett and Brock Osweiler (both 6’7”) never even get a shot to follow in the footsteps of Tom Brady and Peyton Manning? The two greatest quarterbacks of our time each have a massive backup, though if the legends have their way, each player’s rookie contract will be up before they ever start for New England and Denver.

Of course short quarterbacks have not fared well in the NFL when so few are ever given much of an opportunity. Wilson’s one decent season away from indisputably being the third or fourth-best quarterback under 72 inches in NFL history. Remember, his main competition: Sonny Jurgensen (5’11”), Arnie Herber (5’11”) and Doug Flutie (5’10”).

The big boys Flacco and Kaepernick finished the season in the Super Bowl, but few teams were as hot heading into the playoffs as Seattle, thanks in part to that third-round shrimp, who had a 115.8 passer rating in his final 10 games.

Wilson was never expected to be this good this fast. He fell to Seattle in the third round (75th overall) as the sixth quarterback in the 2012 draft and was saddled behind Matt Flynn to start the preseason. Seattle drafting a 5’11” – let’s face it, that listed height is very generous to Wilson – quarterback with a mid-round pick? What is this, the second coming of Seneca Wallace?

But there is no comparison.

At Iowa State, Wallace threw 26 touchdowns and 27 interceptions. As a senior, Wilson threw 33 touchdowns against only four interceptions at Wisconsin. That came after three years at North Carolina State where Wilson had 76 touchdowns and 26 interceptions. He even ran for 23 touchdowns in his college career.

So what scared people off?

Was it the fact that he completed 57.8 percent of his passes at NC State before completing 72.8 percent at Wisconsin? A jump like that rarely happens, especially with Wilson in a new environment after his not-as-stellar junior season. Wilson won games, excelled in two programs and showed NFL talent with the vertical game and ability to get the ball to his receivers all over the field.

But he was short, so he falls to the third round, 18 picks after the 6’6” Osweiler.

Wilson instantly made a mockery of that perceived weakness with a rookie record-tying 26 touchdown passes in 2012. So close to a NFC Championship appearance and now with Percy Harvin in town, Seattle behind – or is that in front? – Wilson is one of the favorites to win it all in 2013.

If there was any sign of the height being an issue that fans should keep an eye on, it would be that Wilson attempted a league-high 26.7 percent of his passes outside of the pocket last season according to ESPN’s Mike Sando. That is more than double the league average.

Yet, Wilson’s success on plays inside the pocket and outside was nearly identical, so it’s not like he is struggling to stand in there and deliver. The NFL game is slowly changing with more play-action in the backfield and utilizing the quarterback’s mobility. Wilson picked a good time to come into the league.

Should Wilson continue his success, it may have an impact on how teams evaluate future prospects. While past African-American quarterbacks like James Harris, Doug Williams and Warren Moon are known for clearing a path for future stars, Wilson, also a minority, may help ease the discrimination against shorter passers.

Drew Brees may have already done it had he not taken so long to develop. Wilson’s success was instant.

There may not be a comparable situation until Heisman winner Johnny Manziel – the first freshman to win the award – is ready to declare for the draft. But even he is 6’1”, albeit another generous listing. Rex Grossman (2003) and Michael Vick (2001) are the only quarterbacks this century to be drafted in the first round at 6’1” or shorter.

The next time a NFL team is thinking about taking that 6’6” behemoth like JaMarcus Russell at the top of the draft, hopefully they think twice about overrating the physical tools rather than the skills that translate to success.

If the quarterback proves he is a great decision maker, throws an accurate ball at each depth level, throws his receivers open, has a great feel for the pocket, then why should it matter how tall he is? Why continue worrying about the one thing he cannot control?

Several teams who cared too much about height may have missed out on a franchise quarterback. When they watch Wilson now, we bet they feel pretty small.

Lots of information in the article but their are a few things that stick out.

1. No quarterback under 6'0 tall has been taken in the first two rounds since 1953.

2. Very few short QBs even get the opportunity to start an NFL game.

3. Since 2000 only Rex Groosman and Michael Vick are the only QBs under 6'1 to get taken in the first round.

This tells me that the NFL has a clear cut bias against short QBs but the article was written before Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl.

Their are a lot of things to chew on in this study and its even more interesting considering Russell Wilson just won a Super Bowl just as Manziel is destined to enter the league.

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This tells me that the NFL has a clear cut bias against short QBs but the article was written before Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl.

The success of Wilson showed that Brees wasn't a fluke and that short QB's can play in the NFL, especially if they can run the ball.

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This tells me that the NFL has a clear cut bias against short QBs but the article was written before Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl.

The success of Wilson showed that Brees wasn't a fluke and that short QB's can play in the NFL, especially if they can run the ball.

Height is way overrated, Stafford at 6-5 gets balls batted down all the time due to his release point.

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Their are a lot of things to chew on in this study and its even more interesting considering Russell Wilson just won a Super Bowl just as Manziel is destined to enter the league.

I love it! Manziel does not just enter the league when he is elibable but instead when he is destined. Russell Wilsons super bowl victory was like John the Baptist clearing the way for Manziels greatness! :lol:

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This tells me that the NFL has a clear cut bias against short QBs but the article was written before Russell Wilson won a Super Bowl.

The success of Wilson showed that Brees wasn't a fluke and that short QB's can play in the NFL, especially if they can run the ball.

But how many too short dudes has the nfl truly missed. There is not many 6 and under starters big tine college football at qb

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The talk about Johnny Manziel chosing to wear a helmet and shoulder pads and a flack vest has gotten some play so here is an interesting photo question.

Does Johnny Manziel look bigger in pads than without?

A nice was to compare/contrast.

YOU DECIDE!

Pictures of Johnny Manziel in pads:

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/plain-dealer/photo/2014/03/-c38bb69e94e3a4da.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/e07801b5b9134d3aa9dda78008365969/460x.jpg

PIctures of Johnny Manziel without pads:

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Atticus+Shaffer+ABC+Middle+100th+Episode+Celebration+jmB82Sc6t7fl.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

:lol:

/Looks at floor and whispers "Johnny Football".

That was pretty damn funny Andy. :lmao:

I think most didn't click on the photos so they missed the joke and missed your reply joke.

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Their are a lot of things to chew on in this study and its even more interesting considering Russell Wilson just won a Super Bowl just as Manziel is destined to enter the league.

I love it! Manziel does not just enter the league when he is elibable but instead when he is destined. Russell Wilsons super bowl victory was like John the Baptist clearing the way for Manziels greatness! :lol:

I think it is serendipitious timing to the extent it would have to be labeled destiny but destiny doesn't always imply greatness.

Sometimes its infamy.

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The talk about Johnny Manziel chosing to wear a helmet and shoulder pads and a flack vest has gotten some play so here is an interesting photo question.

Does Johnny Manziel look bigger in pads than without?

A nice was to compare/contrast.

YOU DECIDE!

Pictures of Johnny Manziel in pads:

http://imgick.cleveland.com/home/cleve-media/pgmain/img/plain-dealer/photo/2014/03/-c38bb69e94e3a4da.jpg

http://binaryapi.ap.org/e07801b5b9134d3aa9dda78008365969/460x.jpg

PIctures of Johnny Manziel without pads:

http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Atticus+Shaffer+ABC+Middle+100th+Episode+Celebration+jmB82Sc6t7fl.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

http://0.tqn.com/d/kidstvmovies/1/7/K/w/AtticusShaffer_RobertCapron.jpg

:lol:

/Looks at floor and whispers "Johnny Football".

That was pretty damn funny Andy. :lmao:

I think most didn't click on the photos so they missed the joke and missed your reply joke.

I saw the pics and they were entertaining however I didn't think it was funny because your premise (does he look bigger in pads than without) is obvious. It's not like pads have negative space.

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Rotoworld:

The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein corresponded with a scout that called Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel a Day 3 pick.

Zierlein tweeted out a pair of texts he received from scouts on Saturday that perfectly illustrate why Johnny Football is one of the most polarizing draft prospects ever: One said his grade on the Aggies' star was so high that attending his pro day only could have hurt his evaluation and advised Zierlein to "Bet the farm." The other texted: "Not even close between Manziel and RG3. RG3 better. Manziel 3rd day pick & see if you can develop." A roomful of well-paid adult males will collectively decide to gamble their livelihoods on Manziel. In May, it'll be fascinating to see which group shoves their chips into the middle of the table first.

A scout texted the Sideline View's Lance Zierlein that his "grade is so high on [Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel] that [the] only thing that could have happened if I went to the workout is lower the grade."

Considering that Manziel's pro day performance floored evaluators and clearly increased his draft stock, this is a very strong statement. So is the scout's parting words to Zierlein: "Bet the farm." It remains to be seen if Manziel can sway the Texans at No. 1 off Jadeveon Clowney or Blake Bortles, but it doesn't appear likely at this point that he'll fall below Minnesota's No. 8 pick.
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Rotoworld:

The Sideline View's Lance Zierlein corresponded with a scout that called Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel a Day 3 pick.

Zierlein tweeted out a pair of texts he received from scouts on Saturday that perfectly illustrate why Johnny Football is one of the most polarizing draft prospects ever: One said his grade on the Aggies' star was so high that attending his pro day only could have hurt his evaluation and advised Zierlein to "Bet the farm." The other texted: "Not even close between Manziel and RG3. RG3 better. Manziel 3rd day pick & see if you can develop." A roomful of well-paid adult males will collectively decide to gamble their livelihoods on Manziel. In May, it'll be fascinating to see which group shoves their chips into the middle of the table first.

Source: Lance Zierlein on Twitter

A scout texted the Sideline View's Lance Zierlein that his "grade is so high on [Texas A&M's Johnny Manziel] that [the] only thing that could have happened if I went to the workout is lower the grade."

Considering that Manziel's pro day performance floored evaluators and clearly increased his draft stock, this is a very strong statement. So is the scout's parting words to Zierlein: "Bet the farm." It remains to be seen if Manziel can sway the Texans at No. 1 off Jadeveon Clowney or Blake Bortles, but it doesn't appear likely at this point that he'll fall below Minnesota's No. 8 pick.

Source: Lance Zierlein on Twitter

What a great draft this is gonna be to watch.

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At this point, I think Mike Zimmer loves Johnny Football like a fat kid loves cake.

You can read into his comments anything you want to. I think it is funny that the Vikings have attended 5 pro day and after each one there has been reports insinuating they are smitten. Gotta love the silly season.
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At this point, I think Mike Zimmer loves Johnny Football like a fat kid loves cake.

You can read into his comments anything you want to. I think it is funny that the Vikings have attended 5 pro day and after each one there has been reports insinuating they are smitten. Gotta love the silly season.

His comments after the pro day sounded even more like a smokescreen, actually.

He was the only guy to say something negative, with the whole 'sideshow' comment, which he KNEW would get play.

If he says one more negative thing about him, I am gonna try and lay money down in Vegas on Minny taking him.

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  • Faust changed the title to Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'

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