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Official Johnny Manziel Thread (7 Viewers)

massraider said:
Donnybrook said:
massraider said:
Faust said:
Vikings coach Mike Zimmer grills Johnny Manziel on 'flags'
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At this point, I think Mike Zimmer loves Johnny Football like a fat kid loves cake.
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You can read into his comments anything you want to. I think it is funny that the Vikings have attended 5 pro day and after each one there has been reports insinuating they are smitten. Gotta love the silly season.
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His comments after the pro day sounded even more like a smokescreen, actually.

He was the only guy to say something negative, with the whole 'sideshow' comment, which he KNEW would get play.

If he says one more negative thing about him, I am gonna try and lay money down in Vegas on Minny taking him.
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Maybe this is what they want everyone to think to generate trade talks?

Hard to say it means anything except that the Vikings are desperate for a QB.

 
Mayock: Manziel better out of college than Kaepernick, WilsonBy Bryan Fischer

College Football 24/7 writer

The excitement over Johnny Manziel's pro day has swept up NFL Media analyst Mike Mayock, and it seems he is fully embracing it.

After taking in the workout at Texas A&M last week and finally having a chance to catch his breath and reflect, Mayock whipped plenty of folks into a frenzy when he made Manziel his top quarterback in his latest positional rankings Monday.

Appearing on NFL Network's "Path to the Draft," Mayock had a chance to explain his decision.

"At some point, you have to trust your gut," Mayock said. "He's got the 'it' factor. He's a playmaker. Number two, his arm is every bit as good as almost every quarterback in this draft, including Blake Bortles.

"Finally, I believe he'll learn to win from within the pocket," he said. "If he can learn to win within the pocket and still has the spontaneity and big-play ability, I think you get the best of all worlds."

The praise didn't stop there.

Everybody is familiar with some of the crazy -- some coaches might label them infuriating -- plays Manziel makes with his feet, but it's clear that Mayock has dug deep on what Manziel can do as a passer. Mayock not only liked what he saw at the pro day in terms of arm strength, but believes that Manziel can make all the throws to join some elite company at the next level.

"I think he's a better thrower than either (Colin) Kaepernick or Russell Wilson were when they came out (of college)," Mayock said. "This was the most different evaluation I've ever done. At the end of it, you just trust your gut."

That's impressive company, considering both young quarterbacks went to the Super Bowl within two years of being drafted. Wilson is frequently pegged as a comparison for Manziel because of his height and ability to move out of the pocket.

While Manziel did not run a ton of zone-read plays in college, his speed and quickness could put him in position to mimic what Kaepernick has done in the NFL to keep defenses on their heels.

Five of the six latest NFL.com mock drafts have Manziel going in the top 10, from No. 5 overall to the Raiders to No. 8 to the Vikings. Jacksonville coach Gus Bradley was around Wilson during his time on the Seahawks staff, and the Jaguars could also be a landing spot with the third overall pick.

Not everybody will agree with Mayock and his analysis, including teams picking early in the 2014 NFL Draft. Fellow analyst Daniel Jeremiah is one person who isn't budging -- so far -- in his ranking of Manziel and holding firm on Teddy Bridgewater as the top quarterback on his big board.

Will a team take a chance on Johnny Football in the first round? It seems highly likely, and they'll be getting a very good quarterback if Mayock's latest rankings are to be believed.

Follow Bryan Fischer on Twitter @BryanDFischer.
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All I know is I'm finding this Manziel stuff completely fascinating. The ups! The downs!

Super interesting to see how it turns out. Does his game graduate?

Can he do his thing when the windows are smaller and don't stay open as long? When the 260 pounder is closer to you sooner and coming at you faster?

Looking forward to it.

 
So where does everyone rank Manziel in QB1 dynasty leagues? Gimme a floor and a ceiling?

I will say best case top 3-5 QB for FF. Worst case QB 10-15 vicinity. I would bet on the best case being 75% in the next 3 years and 25% of the worst case.

Anyone else?

 
Gandalf said:
So where does everyone rank Manziel in QB1 dynasty leagues? Gimme a floor and a ceiling?

I will say best case top 3-5 QB for FF. Worst case QB 10-15 vicinity. I would bet on the best case being 75% in the next 3 years and 25% of the worst case.

Anyone else?
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Top 3-5 next year?
 
Greg Cosell made the point that, at times, on film, he saw Manziel bail on plays when there were options still there within structure. He said if he were interviewing Manziel, he would show him those plays and ask why.

So, if Manziel's success rate when he's improvising drops (just due to opposing talent) and he's still breaking structure before he has to... that could sink him as a starter.

I remember way back when, someone did some numbers on Roethlesberger that showed that what was making him great was what he did outside of structure, and that he was pretty ordinary when he was on script. (It's why I wonder what's going to happen as the Steelers try to keep Ben on schedule in order to keep him healthy.)

What if Manziel is just okay when he's on script?

Again, I'm itching to see it.

 
Gandalf said:
IHEARTFF said:
Worst case has to be much worse than a #1 QB. Worst case is he can't even cut it as a starter in the NFL.
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Is that a realistic worst case? I guess that's what I mean. Do people really think he could be cut?
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Even Matt Leinart stayed on a team (a variety of them) for 6 years. His floor is probably much higher than that (a fellow Heisman winner with other great talent around him in college) but I think his floor is certainly in the realm of not able to cut it as a starter. He is not a sure thing (in my opinion anyway).

He is not Andrew Luck, where you know he will make it as a starter and is likely to be something much more. I like Manziel a great deal, and I believe he will make it as an NFL QB, but he is not a stone cold lock to be even a good NFL QB.

 
Gandalf said:
IHEARTFF said:
Worst case has to be much worse than a #1 QB. Worst case is he can't even cut it as a starter in the NFL.
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Is that a realistic worst case? I guess that's what I mean. Do people really think he could be cut?
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I think a realistic bad case, if not absolute worst... is a Vince Young career track. Gets enough done with his legs and improvising to have some early success. But it isn't sustained. A lack of being able to take apart a defense with consistent, competent play in the pocket eventually gets exposed.

Best case, hello Frank Tarkenton.

 
I felt something was missing this off season, I couldn't quite figure out why. Then I realized the other day that nobody's talking about Tim Tebow any more, everybody is discussing about Johnny Manziel.

I will let professional scouts to discuss their physical tools. What I am afraid of is that he will bring too many distractions to the team drafted him. I don't think any of the NFL teams in the hunt for him is able to handle all the circus around him.

 
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Rotoworld:

NBC Sports' Shaun King expressed concern with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's "extracurricular activities" and mechanics.
"I don't like his arm release, he throws from a 3/4s sideways release point. That is not good for a short guy," King began. "...Every time he throws the ball to the left he is always off line at the end of his drop... that lets me know that even working on this for three months, he is still not comfortable coming from under center." King went on to say he believes there are "outside concerns," saying "he's not the first person in the building, not the last person to leave" type. King, a former quarterback, also questions Manziel's intentions of wearing Nike gear during his pro day rather than Texas A&M labeled equipment and has heard from decision makers who were troubled by the language in the music that played during the workout.

Source: NBC Sports
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ffgiant said:
I felt something was missing this off season, I couldn't quite figure out why. Then I realized the other day that nobody's talking about Tim Tebow any more, everybody is discussing about Johnny Manziel.

I will let professional scouts to discuss their physical tools. What I am afraid of is that he will bring too many distractions to the team drafted him. I don't think any of the NFL teams in the hunt for him is able to handle all the circus around him.
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Seems to me that the similarities between Tebow and Manziel end at the circus part.

 
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I have a buddy who thinks he's Ryan Leaf part 2. I know he has his off field issues but I think Leaf couldn't handle the pressure while

Manziel seems to feed off it.

 
Gandalf said:
I have a buddy who thinks he's Ryan Leaf part 2. I know he has his off field issues but I think Leaf couldn't handle the pressure while

Manziel seems to feed off it.
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The only thing about Manziel being Leaf 2 would maybe be that he's not a student of the game. Leaf was a flat out moron who could take the pressure when things went south.

 
"I think we confirmed today his arm strength -- it's fine," Mayock said. "It's every bit as good as [blake] Bortles or anyone we've seen this year. Mechanically, he can make any throw an NFL quarterback has to make.
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(Mayock's observations after Manziel's pro day)

Drew Brees' arm stronger than you think

(this article is a little dated, as it is from 2011)

NFL's biggest arm? Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford in the mix

Excerpt from Jason Smith's viewpoint:

There's a reason Brees throws for 5,000 yards a year Drew Brees' arm strength amazes me. To think his career was in question at one point because of a shoulder injury, and to see where he is now? It's incredibly impressive. Sure, Jay Cutler and Michael Vick are going to get their due for strong arms, but what sets Brees apart is how he throws his deep ball. There's no one, and I mean no one, who can throw the ball as deep, with these three huge qualities:1) Velocity: It doesn't look like he throws it very hard with his easy motion, but it gets there just as fast as the other top guns.

2) Accuracy: There's plenty of guys who can chuck it long and make you say, "Wow, he threw that one 75 yards!" But more often than not, it's a jump ball or it's off target. Brees' ball always seems to arrive in his receiver's arms in the perfect spot.

3) Catchability: Sometimes it's hard to judge a deep ball because it's too high or it's whistling harder than you think it is. But Brees' passes seem to follow the same trajectory without any variables. His bombs never go off someone's fingertips or get misjudged.

He's not the classic choice, but there's a reason why he throws for 5,000 yards a year.
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Rotoworld:

Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel will meet with the Patriots on Wednesday, reports NFL.com.
There isn't much of a chance that Johnny Football winds up in Boston, but the Patriots are a model franchise because they prepare for contingencies of contingencies. All indications have Manziel going in the top 10, but enough scouts have anonymously ripped his game that a draft drop cannot be totally ruled out.

Source: Ian Rapoport on Twitter
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Rotoworld:

CBS Sports' Dane Brugler tweeted on Tuesday that he'd be "very surprised" if Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel was available when Oakland went on the clock at No. 5.
Brugler believes the Texans will take UCF's Blake Bortles at No. 1 followed by Manziel either going to Jacksonville (No. 3) or Cleveland (No. 4). He added an interesting note on the Browns' pick: "I'll be shocked if Sammy [Watkins] is the pick at 4 and Manziel is definitely in play." Cleveland has been a sporadic destination of Watkins' in mock drafts.

Source: Dane Brugler on Twitter
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

NBC Sports' Shaun King expressed concern with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's "extracurricular activities" and mechanics.
"I don't like his arm release, he throws from a 3/4s sideways release point. That is not good for a short guy," King began. "...Every time he throws the ball to the left he is always off line at the end of his drop... that lets me know that even working on this for three months, he is still not comfortable coming from under center." King went on to say he believes there are "outside concerns," saying "he's not the first person in the building, not the last person to leave" type. King, a former quarterback, also questions Manziel's intentions of wearing Nike gear during his pro day rather than Texas A&M labeled equipment and has heard from decision makers who were troubled by the language in the music that played during the workout.

Source: NBC Sports
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
King should have stopped at the release point, which is interesting, and I'd like to hear more about that.

King questions Manziel wearing Nike gear. Think about that for a sec, Think also, for a sec, about Deion Sanders, 25 years, ago, wearing his own line of clothing to Draft Day to promote it.

Manziel didn't say a word about the gear he was wearing (Deion did, as one could imagine), it's not like Manziel did a victory lap, and then said, well, thank God I had my Nike camp shorts on!

 
We know they are all out of BS when someone has to try BSing about "concerns" over the language in the music during his pro day.

 
Is there any shot the Pats could trade up and land Manziel? Has a team with a late first rouner ever traded into the top 10? Maybe he would have to drop beyond that for BB to be willing to trade up. Many in New England assume that when Brady retires so will BB. But I think if he can find Brady's heir apparent that this might not be the case. If he thinks he can win make Manziel a success - and if it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount - I think it's possible. Still very unlikely but possible.

And since we are considering the "what if's" for dynasty purposes. What are the best landing spots for Manziel now? I would think Texans, Browns and Vikings would be better than Jax and Oakland. And if in the complete hypothetical that the Pats trade up for him, I would say that is an awful near-term - but amazing long-term - spot for Manziel.

 
Gandalf said:
Is there any shot the Pats could trade up and land Manziel? Has a team with a late first rouner ever traded into the top 10? Maybe he would have to drop beyond that for BB to be willing to trade up. Many in New England assume that when Brady retires so will BB. But I think if he can find Brady's heir apparent that this might not be the case. If he thinks he can win make Manziel a success - and if it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount - I think it's possible. Still very unlikely but possible.

And since we are considering the "what if's" for dynasty purposes. What are the best landing spots for Manziel now? I would think Texans, Browns and Vikings would be better than Jax and Oakland. And if in the complete hypothetical that the Pats trade up for him, I would say that is an awful near-term - but amazing long-term - spot for Manziel.
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Good God

 
pantherclub said:
Gandalf said:
Is there any shot the Pats could trade up and land Manziel? Has a team with a late first rouner ever traded into the top 10? Maybe he would have to drop beyond that for BB to be willing to trade up. Many in New England assume that when Brady retires so will BB. But I think if he can find Brady's heir apparent that this might not be the case. If he thinks he can win make Manziel a success - and if it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount - I think it's possible. Still very unlikely but possible.

And since we are considering the "what if's" for dynasty purposes. What are the best landing spots for Manziel now? I would think Texans, Browns and Vikings would be better than Jax and Oakland. And if in the complete hypothetical that the Pats trade up for him, I would say that is an awful near-term - but amazing long-term - spot for Manziel.
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Good God
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Hahaha. I know it's not going to happen, but I would love it if it did

 
Gandalf said:
Is there any shot the Pats could trade up and land Manziel? Has a team with a late first rouner ever traded into the top 10? Maybe he would have to drop beyond that for BB to be willing to trade up. Many in New England assume that when Brady retires so will BB. But I think if he can find Brady's heir apparent that this might not be the case. If he thinks he can win make Manziel a success - and if it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount - I think it's possible. Still very unlikely but possible.

And since we are considering the "what if's" for dynasty purposes. What are the best landing spots for Manziel now? I would think Texans, Browns and Vikings would be better than Jax and Oakland. And if in the complete hypothetical that the Pats trade up for him, I would say that is an awful near-term - but amazing long-term - spot for Manziel.
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i doubt it

but i also think that assuming Bellicheck will retire when brady does is wrong as well

 
B-Deep said:
Gandalf said:
Is there any shot the Pats could trade up and land Manziel? Has a team with a late first rouner ever traded into the top 10? Maybe he would have to drop beyond that for BB to be willing to trade up. Many in New England assume that when Brady retires so will BB. But I think if he can find Brady's heir apparent that this might not be the case. If he thinks he can win make Manziel a success - and if it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount - I think it's possible. Still very unlikely but possible.

And since we are considering the "what if's" for dynasty purposes. What are the best landing spots for Manziel now? I would think Texans, Browns and Vikings would be better than Jax and Oakland. And if in the complete hypothetical that the Pats trade up for him, I would say that is an awful near-term - but amazing long-term - spot for Manziel.
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i doubt it

but i also think that assuming Bellicheck will retire when brady does is wrong as well
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I agree. I don't know what BB would do without football. Some in the Boston area speculate that both will go stop at the same time. I'm not one to believe it either.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Gandalf said:
IHEARTFF said:
Worst case has to be much worse than a #1 QB. Worst case is he can't even cut it as a starter in the NFL.
Click to expand...
Is that a realistic worst case? I guess that's what I mean. Do people really think he could be cut?
Click to expand...
I think he could be a complete failure as a pro. That's not my prediction but I don't think we can set his floor at QB10-15.
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In your mind, what are the places that make it more or less likely for Manziel to succeed?

 
B-Deep said:
Gandalf said:
Is there any shot the Pats could trade up and land Manziel? Has a team with a late first rouner ever traded into the top 10? Maybe he would have to drop beyond that for BB to be willing to trade up. Many in New England assume that when Brady retires so will BB. But I think if he can find Brady's heir apparent that this might not be the case. If he thinks he can win make Manziel a success - and if it doesn't cost a ridiculous amount - I think it's possible. Still very unlikely but possible.

And since we are considering the "what if's" for dynasty purposes. What are the best landing spots for Manziel now? I would think Texans, Browns and Vikings would be better than Jax and Oakland. And if in the complete hypothetical that the Pats trade up for him, I would say that is an awful near-term - but amazing long-term - spot for Manziel.
Click to expand...
i doubt it

but i also think that assuming Bellicheck will retire when brady does is wrong as well
Click to expand...
They're going to have to drag his corpse off the field.

 
massraider said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

NBC Sports' Shaun King expressed concern with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's "extracurricular activities" and mechanics.
"I don't like his arm release, he throws from a 3/4s sideways release point. That is not good for a short guy," King began. "...Every time he throws the ball to the left he is always off line at the end of his drop... that lets me know that even working on this for three months, he is still not comfortable coming from under center." King went on to say he believes there are "outside concerns," saying "he's not the first person in the building, not the last person to leave" type. King, a former quarterback, also questions Manziel's intentions of wearing Nike gear during his pro day rather than Texas A&M labeled equipment and has heard from decision makers who were troubled by the language in the music that played during the workout.

Source: NBC Sports
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
King should have stopped at the release point, which is interesting, and I'd like to hear more about that.

King questions Manziel wearing Nike gear. Think about that for a sec, Think also, for a sec, about Deion Sanders, 25 years, ago, wearing his own line of clothing to Draft Day to promote it.

Manziel didn't say a word about the gear he was wearing (Deion did, as one could imagine), it's not like Manziel did a victory lap, and then said, well, thank God I had my Nike camp shorts on!
Click to expand...
deion was a once in a lifetime talent....Manziel, i don't think so. Also, Deion is a def player...believe me it matters.

 
Sports radio in Boston is going crazy trying to figure out why the Pats have brought in Manziel and Bridgewater. Options being tossed around range from finding an heir to Brady to doing Bill O'Brien a solid helping him scout these guys.

 
sbonomo said:
massraider said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

NBC Sports' Shaun King expressed concern with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's "extracurricular activities" and mechanics.

"I don't like his arm release, he throws from a 3/4s sideways release point. That is not good for a short guy," King began. "...Every time he throws the ball to the left he is always off line at the end of his drop... that lets me know that even working on this for three months, he is still not comfortable coming from under center." King went on to say he believes there are "outside concerns," saying "he's not the first person in the building, not the last person to leave" type. King, a former quarterback, also questions Manziel's intentions of wearing Nike gear during his pro day rather than Texas A&M labeled equipment and has heard from decision makers who were troubled by the language in the music that played during the workout.

Source: NBC Sports
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
King should have stopped at the release point, which is interesting, and I'd like to hear more about that.King questions Manziel wearing Nike gear. Think about that for a sec, Think also, for a sec, about Deion Sanders, 25 years, ago, wearing his own line of clothing to Draft Day to promote it.

Manziel didn't say a word about the gear he was wearing (Deion did, as one could imagine), it's not like Manziel did a victory lap, and then said, well, thank God I had my Nike camp shorts on!
Click to expand...
deion was a once in a lifetime talent....Manziel, i don't think so. Also, Deion is a def player...believe me it matters.
Click to expand...
Are you making the argument that his stuff being for sale in Nike.com could affect his draft stock? Because that's what King was implying.

 
Gandalf said:
Sports radio in Boston is going crazy trying to figure out why the Pats have brought in Manziel and Bridgewater. Options being tossed around range from finding an heir to Brady to doing Bill O'Brien a solid helping him scout these guys.
Click to expand...
Recording their weaknesses in case they play against them.

 
Gandalf said:
Sports radio in Boston is going crazy trying to figure out why the Pats have brought in Manziel and Bridgewater. Options being tossed around range from finding an heir to Brady to doing Bill O'Brien a solid helping him scout these guys.
Click to expand...
I think it is simply doing their due diligence for two possible reasons...one, the outside chance one of the two pulls an Aaron Rodgers and slips dramatically and becomes in play for their pick or a slight trade-up...personally I will be BS if they draft a QB early this year regardless of who it is...their main concern should be winning this year not worrying about Brady's successor...the second and more likely reason is they are getting info on them for the future...Brady has somewhere between 3-5 years left and I'm guessing they are doing their homework on guys like this because they could possibly be in-play as an acquisition somewhere down-the-line...at some point Brady is gone and I think they are just collecting as much info as they possibly can to get ready for that day...

 
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Boston said:
Gandalf said:
Sports radio in Boston is going crazy trying to figure out why the Pats have brought in Manziel and Bridgewater. Options being tossed around range from finding an heir to Brady to doing Bill O'Brien a solid helping him scout these guys.
Click to expand...
I think it is simply doing their due diligence for two possible reasons...one, the outside chance one of the two pulls an Aaron Rodgers and slips dramatically and becomes in play for their pick or a slight trade-up...personally I will be BS if they draft a QB early this year regardless of who it is...their main concern should be winning this year not worrying about Brady's successor...the second and more likely reason is they are getting info on them for the future...Brady has somewhere between 3-5 years left and I'm guessing they are doing their homework on guys like this because they could possibly be in-play as an acquisition somewhere down-the-line...at some point Brady is gone and I think they are just collecting as much info as they possibly can to get ready for that day...
Click to expand...
3-5 years of Brady would coincide roughly with the end of the rookie contract for these guys too

 
Gandalf said:
Boston said:
Gandalf said:
Sports radio in Boston is going crazy trying to figure out why the Pats have brought in Manziel and Bridgewater. Options being tossed around range from finding an heir to Brady to doing Bill O'Brien a solid helping him scout these guys.
Click to expand...
I think it is simply doing their due diligence for two possible reasons...one, the outside chance one of the two pulls an Aaron Rodgers and slips dramatically and becomes in play for their pick or a slight trade-up...personally I will be BS if they draft a QB early this year regardless of who it is...their main concern should be winning this year not worrying about Brady's successor...the second and more likely reason is they are getting info on them for the future...Brady has somewhere between 3-5 years left and I'm guessing they are doing their homework on guys like this because they could possibly be in-play as an acquisition somewhere down-the-line...at some point Brady is gone and I think they are just collecting as much info as they possibly can to get ready for that day...
Click to expand...
3-5 years of Brady would coincide roughly with the end of the rookie contract for these guys too
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That or if they struggle with their first team and maybe they need a change of scenery to try and revive their career...not comparing Manziel and Brigewater to these guys but look at how some recent first rounders are faring... Gabbert is already out of Jax, Ponder seems ready to get axed, Locker looks like he maybe on thin ice, Josh Freeman is currently an afterthought...you never know who will be the next Jim Plunkett...a guy drafted into a bad situation who goes to a quality team and turns it around...I really think this is part of the whole scouting process for life after Brady...don't leave a stone un-turned and maybe you get lucky and get a veteran who suddenly figures it...kind of like Rich Gannon although he was not a high pick...

 
sbonomo said:
massraider said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

NBC Sports' Shaun King expressed concern with Texas A&M QB Johnny Manziel's "extracurricular activities" and mechanics.

"I don't like his arm release, he throws from a 3/4s sideways release point. That is not good for a short guy," King began. "...Every time he throws the ball to the left he is always off line at the end of his drop... that lets me know that even working on this for three months, he is still not comfortable coming from under center." King went on to say he believes there are "outside concerns," saying "he's not the first person in the building, not the last person to leave" type. King, a former quarterback, also questions Manziel's intentions of wearing Nike gear during his pro day rather than Texas A&M labeled equipment and has heard from decision makers who were troubled by the language in the music that played during the workout.

Source: NBC Sports
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
King should have stopped at the release point, which is interesting, and I'd like to hear more about that.King questions Manziel wearing Nike gear. Think about that for a sec, Think also, for a sec, about Deion Sanders, 25 years, ago, wearing his own line of clothing to Draft Day to promote it.

Manziel didn't say a word about the gear he was wearing (Deion did, as one could imagine), it's not like Manziel did a victory lap, and then said, well, thank God I had my Nike camp shorts on!
Click to expand...
deion was a once in a lifetime talent....Manziel, i don't think so. Also, Deion is a def player...believe me it matters.
Click to expand...
What matters is that Team Manziel clearly now has their head out of their rears...everything about that day showed it. If a 'decision maker' holds that against him, he won't be making decisions much longer.

 
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