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Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'


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I am more concerned with the fact that he's going to get killed than him flipping the bird. He takes off at the first sign of pressure, is completely reckless when he runs, and doesn't slide. And this isn't college where he was fast enough to get away from defenders. Linebackers and DEs can, and are, catching him and pulverizing him into the ground.

well, that and throwing behind his receivers.

he's going to get his guys killed the first time someone runs a zone against him.

He and Hoyer were doing that all night.. Although I get tired of Jaws, he is was right that having them split 1st team reps during practice is causing issues for both QB's.. Timing is a HUGE part of it and when you are only working together 50% of the time the timing is going to be off..

There were many times last night where you could see that Manziel and Hoyer were expecting a Receiver to "sit down" on the route and yet the receivers countinued moving causing the ball to be behind them..

Until the Coaching staff pulls their collective heads out and choose one QB, the Browns Offense will be a :tfp:

i agree it's not all on Manziel.

but, it seemed like he was behind or low on every throw except when he was rolling out of the pocket. and it's going to be hard making a living rolling out every single play.

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RIP

His argument is pretty ridiculous, but there's really no reason to bring up Ferguson or the I can't breathe protests in response. Pretty poor taste here guys.

It doesn't speak well for Johnny that he is letting people inside his head in preseason. I doubt he has the emotional intelligence to succeed to be honest. He's going to get picked on so much more than Michael Sam.

Once he gets out there, I could see it becoming a nice little tradition for defenders to do the money sign when they take him down.

Johnny has become his own bounty-gate through his actions. I can't remember a QB that defenders are going to want to sack/hit/punish more than this guy

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but, it seemed like he was behind or low on every throw except when he was rolling out of the pocket. and it's going to be hard making a living rolling out every single play.

Yep.

Given the events of the two games making a decision on the QB that hasn't been as bad seems impossible, but they have to. Offense is completely out of sync and it isn't going to get better until they settle on one. Gotta use what they've seen in practice and that's gotta be Hoyer. Start getting him ready for week 1 with all of the 1st team reps, gotta use them more of game 4 than they probably wanted to as well. Don't let them leave the field until they get it into the end zone, which hasn't happened yet.

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I am more concerned with the fact that he's going to get killed than him flipping the bird. He takes off at the first sign of pressure, is completely reckless when he runs, and doesn't slide. And this isn't college where he was fast enough to get away from defenders. Linebackers and DEs can, and are, catching him and pulverizing him into the ground.

well, that and throwing behind his receivers.

he's going to get his guys killed the first time someone runs a zone against him.

He and Hoyer were doing that all night.. Although I get tired of Jaws, he is was right that having them split 1st team reps during practice is causing issues for both QB's.. Timing is a HUGE part of it and when you are only working together 50% of the time the timing is going to be off..

There were many times last night where you could see that Manziel and Hoyer were expecting a Receiver to "sit down" on the route and yet the receivers countinued moving causing the ball to be behind them..

Until the Coaching staff pulls their collective heads out and choose one QB, the Browns Offense will be a :tfp:

i agree it's not all on Manziel.

but, it seemed like he was behind or low on every throw except when he was rolling out of the pocket. and it's going to be hard making a living rolling out every single play.

Channeling Jake Plummer, who I have always thought is the guy who Manziel's play most resembles.

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It doesn't speak well for Johnny that he is letting people inside his head in preseason. I doubt he has the emotional intelligence to succeed to be honest. He's going to get picked on so much more than Michael Sam.

Once he gets out there, I could see it becoming a nice little tradition for defenders to do the money sign when they take him down.

Johnny has become his own bounty-gate through his actions. I can't remember a QB that defenders are going to want to sack/hit/punish more than this guy

If I was playing defense in the NFL there's no one in the league who would be as satisfying to hit as Manziel.

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Him and Tim Tebow are very similar......overhyped, game not suited to pro's, excessive jock sniffing by media, etc...except one was Christ and the other is apparently the anti-Christ.

No chance. I bet the AC could complete a 7 yard comeback to an open WR.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.

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It doesn't speak well for Johnny that he is letting people inside his head in preseason. I doubt he has the emotional intelligence to succeed to be honest. He's going to get picked on so much more than Michael Sam.

:goodposting: This. Every team will be heckling the snot out of him from here on out.

To me, that's the bigger issue if I'm the coach.

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the hate for this guy is unreal. just take a step back and look at yourselves for a second. it's sad.

I'm estatic that I'm on the other side of this one. It's fun to root for a guy everyone else hates.

He's Johnny Football. He's Cool Hand Luke. He's Johnny 8Ball.

I mean, how can you NOT root for him?

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.

You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.

You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.
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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.

You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.

This is fair criticism.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.
You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.

His quickness and ability to change direction is unique though for a QB. He has to learn to use it the right way.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.
You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.

His quickness and ability to change direction is unique though for a QB. He has to learn to use it the right way.
His quickness and change of direction were unique for college. I don't expect that to be the case in the NFL. He must win within the pocket or he will not win in the NFL. He is not a Cam, Luck, RG3 or Vick level athlete.
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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.
You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.
His quickness and ability to change direction is unique though for a QB. He has to learn to use it the right way.
His quickness and change of direction were unique for college. I don't expect that to be the case in the NFL. He must win within the pocket or he will not win in the NFL. He is not a Cam, Luck, RG3 or Vick level athlete.

Manziel's skills don't really align with those 4...not sure who's do, which makes them unique. Agree he has to win within the pocket though.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.

You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.
This is pretty much how I see it . His creativity, isn't going to work to the same degree in the pros simply by virtue of the discipline and gap responsibility. You may see flashes like what Kaepernick pulled off against Green Bay in the playoffs a few years ago, but that won't be sustainable and Manziel will need to learn how to play QB if he wants to actually hold that position in the NFL.

You're right about his line play at A&M. They were superior by far on most Saturdays.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.
You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.

His quickness and ability to change direction is unique though for a QB. He has to learn to use it the right way.
His quickness and change of direction were unique for college. I don't expect that to be the case in the NFL. He must win within the pocket or he will not win in the NFL. He is not a Cam, Luck, RG3 or Vick level athlete.
He's not at the Wilson, Kaepernick or Luck level of athlete either.
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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.
You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.
His quickness and ability to change direction is unique though for a QB. He has to learn to use it the right way.
His quickness and change of direction were unique for college. I don't expect that to be the case in the NFL. He must win within the pocket or he will not win in the NFL. He is not a Cam, Luck, RG3 or Vick level athlete.
He's not at the Wilson, Kaepernick or Luck level of athlete either.

i'm convinced he is. is there some objective data we can look at to show otherwise? and i'm not really interested in 40 time.

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Washington safety Ryan Clark was on Mike & Mike this morning, and he told them what led to Fingergate.

Basically, the players on the Skins sidelines said "This isn't college anymore, and we are as fast as you are."

"Among other stuff"

I'm not certain that Manziel was much faster than the competition in college either: 4.68 ain't fast. He didn't ever look like a burner at A&M; he looked like a guy who could improvise and who would often go off script and bail out of the pocket. This throws the defense off as much (or more) as it does his WR's.
You're right...speed had little to do with it...it was his quickness, change of direction, and ability to feel and react a half-step before the defender.

I think that will still help at this level, but he has to learn to use it to find a window to throw...like Wilson.

Manziel was able to look like a better athlete in college for 2 reasons. The first was his amazing oline. The second was the lack of technique and discipline college player play with compared to the NFL. The team that played him most like NFL teams will was LSU and they terrorized him. They had great athletes, for college, and preached gap and eye discipline to keep Manziel in the pocket and in front of them. NFL teams will do the same because he is still making all the same mistakes as he did then.
His quickness and ability to change direction is unique though for a QB. He has to learn to use it the right way.
His quickness and change of direction were unique for college. I don't expect that to be the case in the NFL. He must win within the pocket or he will not win in the NFL. He is not a Cam, Luck, RG3 or Vick level athlete.
He's not at the Wilson, Kaepernick or Luck level of athlete either.

i'm convinced he is. is there some objective data we can look at to show otherwise? and i'm not really interested in 40 time.
If you want to discount running numbers, you could take arm strength into account. In college Kaepernick threw in the mid 90's as a pitcher for the Nevada Wolf Pack and Wilson in the low 90's as an spot reliever for the NC State Wolfpack. Both Wilson and Kaepernick were drafted by MLB teams as legitimate prospects (Wilson as high as the 4th round), not a gimmick.

Luck is just a big, bruising stud. Vastly underrated physical skills. He's the anti-Johnny.

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He said he didn't have much reaction to CBS analyst Boomer Esiason saying today that NFL players hate Manziel and that he would get his "### kicked'' by the Steelers. Pettine said he's confident that any quarterback they put out there in Pittsburgh will be successful because they'll gameplan around him and prepare him well.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/08/mike_pettine_has_no_decision_y.html

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His quickness and change of direction were unique for college. I don't expect that to be the case in the NFL. He must win within the pocket or he will not win in the NFL. He is not a Cam, Luck, RG3 or Vick level athlete.
He's not at the Wilson, Kaepernick or Luck level of athlete either.

i'm convinced he is. is there some objective data we can look at to show otherwise? and i'm not really interested in 40 time.

Manziel is actually a very similar athlete to Kaepernick...if you ignore the 5 inches in height and 25 lbs. Kaepernick has on him.

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I am more concerned with the fact that he's going to get killed than him flipping the bird. He takes off at the first sign of pressure, is completely reckless when he runs, and doesn't slide. And this isn't college where he was fast enough to get away from defenders. Linebackers and DEs can, and are, catching him and pulverizing him into the ground.

This, pretty much. Manziel has a lot of work, and maturing, to do before he becomes a consistent, quality NFL starter, IMO.

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JOhnny's physical gifts that set him apart in college don't seem to be setting him apart in the NFL, and not sure they will.

I didn't want my Browns to draft him, and this is pretty much why. He has very questionable decision making and has too many plays where he gets flustered then looks to make a play with his feet.

Yes he is fast, agile, quick...............but he can't come remotely close to doing the same kind of damage with his feet in the NFL as he did in college. He just isn't big enough to make anywhere close to the same amount of plays that way.

I thought he would stink in the NFL during college, prior to the draft, and he sure as heck hasnt done anything to change my mind since he was drafted.

Rooting for him, but ugh.

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JOhnny's physical gifts that set him apart in college don't seem to be setting him apart in the NFL, and not sure they will.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but how are you guys coming to these conclusions? He looked solid in the first preseason game. He looked bad in the second. Nevermind that these are preseason games with a below average team and his first taste of action in the NFL as a 21 (22?) year old... they're not even full games! How are you guys drawing these conclusions after such a small sample size? Are you legitimately writing him off for the rest of his career, or are you just using part of one bad game as an excuse to hate on him when you already hated him going in.

That's a serious question, by the way - are you really telling me you can draw meaningful conclusions on a rookie's entire career based on (less than) two preseason games?

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the hate for this guy is unreal. just take a step back and look at yourselves for a second. it's sad.

I'm estatic that I'm on the other side of this one. It's fun to root for a guy everyone else hates.

He's Johnny Football. He's Cool Hand Luke. He's Johnny 8Ball.

I mean, how can you NOT root for him?

I love it. You know Johnny loves it too. Let the haters hate.

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JOhnny's physical gifts that set him apart in college don't seem to be setting him apart in the NFL, and not sure they will.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but how are you guys coming to these conclusions? He looked solid in the first preseason game. He looked bad in the second. Nevermind that these are preseason games with a below average team and his first taste of action in the NFL as a 21 (22?) year old... they're not even full games! How are you guys drawing these conclusions after such a small sample size? Are you legitimately writing him off for the rest of his career, or are you just using part of one bad game as an excuse to hate on him when you already hated him going in.

That's a serious question, by the way - are you really telling me you can draw meaningful conclusions on a rookie's entire career based on (less than) two preseason games?

How?

1. He's way to short... it took Drew Brees several years to really figure out how to see over an offensive line.

2. He's never had an actual offense to run... every game was Night at the Improv for him since he was a kid. It reminds me of the movie drumline where Nick Cannon is a prodigy drummer but never knew how to read music and they cut to a 2 minute montage of him learning. The only difference is there's not going to be some cute montage of Johnny learning how to understand an NFL playbook. It's going to take him a year or two to fully grasp the concepts of calling protections and audibling out of plays etc.

3. He's not actually that fast, he keeps getting all these comparisons to guys like RG3 and Vick for some reason, but he's really not that fast. Can he run? Sure, will he outrun many people in the NFL? No. He's about the speed of your average LB or an elite DE. He's slower than Griffin (4.41sec), Russell Wilson (4.55sec), Andrew Luck (4.67), Colin Kaepernick (4.53), Jake Locker (4.59), Cam Newton (4.59), Geno Smith (4.59), EJ Manuel (4.65) hell... he's slower than Blaine friggin' Cabbert at 4.62. Johnny ran a 4.68, that's fairly average for a QB these days.

All these motions of his physical gifts were so blown out of proportion. He's not that fast, he's not that agile and he has no real clue how to play the game of football. He's literally just Tim Tebow with a slightly better arm and half the size. I'll be shocked if he actually succeeds as everything is against him.

He's the size of Drew Brees or Russell Wilson without Wilson/Brees' arm strength and accuracy

He's actually pretty slow

And he has no idea how to play.

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JOhnny's physical gifts that set him apart in college don't seem to be setting him apart in the NFL, and not sure they will.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but how are you guys coming to these conclusions? He looked solid in the first preseason game. He looked bad in the second. Nevermind that these are preseason games with a below average team and his first taste of action in the NFL as a 21 (22?) year old... they're not even full games! How are you guys drawing these conclusions after such a small sample size? Are you legitimately writing him off for the rest of his career, or are you just using part of one bad game as an excuse to hate on him when you already hated him going in.

That's a serious question, by the way - are you really telling me you can draw meaningful conclusions on a rookie's entire career based on (less than) two preseason games?

How?

1. He's way to short... it took Drew Brees several years to really figure out how to see over an offensive line.

2. He's never had an actual offense to run... every game was Night at the Improv for him since he was a kid. It reminds me of the movie drumline where Nick Cannon is a prodigy drummer but never knew how to read music and they cut to a 2 minute montage of him learning. The only difference is there's not going to be some cute montage of Johnny learning how to understand an NFL playbook. It's going to take him a year or two to fully grasp the concepts of calling protections and audibling out of plays etc.

3. He's not actually that fast, he keeps getting all these comparisons to guys like RG3 and Vick for some reason, but he's really not that fast. Can he run? Sure, will he outrun many people in the NFL? No. He's about the speed of your average LB or an elite DE. He's slower than Griffin (4.41sec), Russell Wilson (4.55sec), Andrew Luck (4.67), Colin Kaepernick (4.53), Jake Locker (4.59), Cam Newton (4.59), Geno Smith (4.59), EJ Manuel (4.65) hell... he's slower than Blaine friggin' Cabbert at 4.62. Johnny ran a 4.68, that's fairly average for a QB these days.

All these motions of his physical gifts were so blown out of proportion. He's not that fast, he's not that agile and he has no real clue how to play the game of football. He's literally just Tim Tebow with a slightly better arm and half the size. I'll be shocked if he actually succeeds as everything is against him.

He's the size of Drew Brees or Russell Wilson without Wilson/Brees' arm strength and accuracy

He's actually pretty slow

And he has no idea how to play.

So it's all preconceived notions you had before the preseason. That's fine, but don't point to the preseason games as proof that he's definitely a bust. The bolded part is pretty much exactly my point.. you can't judge him on two preseason games. He needs time to learn and mature.

As far as the other stuff:

1. 40 times are just one indicator of athleticism.

2. You say he's not that agile. He's pretty agile.

3. lol at "he's actually pretty slow".

4. Calling him Tebow with a "slightly better arm" takes a lot away from everything you said before. Be better than that if you actually want to be taken seriously.

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It would be refreshing if the kool aid drinkers on this thread would simply post

"I was wrong"

It will never happen but we be cool if so

So after week 2 of pre-season of his rookie year this kid is doomed to failure? That's silly.

I haven't participated in this thread to date other than reading here and there but if we are dividing groups into kook aid drinkers and haters then I guess I'd put myself in the former. I think Manziel has a lot of challenges to being successful in the NFL, primarily his height and the adjustment from a tempo spread with limited plays to a full NFL offense. But I'm rooting for him because he's talented and fun to watch.

The off the field stuff does not bother me nearly as much as the seemingly self righteous crowd here. He has some maturing to do for sure- as most of us did at that age- but I think much of it is way overblown. Guys like Namath, Montana, Marino, and countless others were known to party hard themselves. The difference now is the prevalence of social media and everyone having a camera.

It will be a little while before we know how this kid's career will turn out but I find it unfortunate but not surprising that so many seem to be emotionally invested in his failure.

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Well I'm glad to see the SP in hyperbolic overreaction mode again, right on cue. I'm not a huge fan of Johnny Football but this preseason is not indicative one way or another of his future success or failure.

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It would be refreshing if the kool aid drinkers on this thread would simply post

"I was wrong"

It will never happen but we be cool if so

So after week 2 of pre-season of his rookie year this kid is doomed to failure? That's silly.

Nah, panthercub has hated Johnny since college.

At least he's consistent.

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So it's all preconceived notions you had before the preseason. That's fine, but don't point to the preseason games as proof that he's definitely a bust. The bolded part is pretty much exactly my point.. you can't judge him on two preseason games. He needs time to learn and mature.

As far as the other stuff:

1. 40 times are just one indicator of athleticism.

2. You say he's not that agile. He's pretty agile.

3. lol at "he's actually pretty slow".

4. Calling him Tebow with a "slightly better arm" takes a lot away from everything you said before. Be better than that if you actually want to be taken seriously.

The bolded is what concerns me about Manziel. Since he has been drafted he has shown very little interest in maturing. Maybe that will come in the next year, but because he has never had to mature, this doesn't come naturally to him. As for putting the time in to learn what he has to do as an NFL QB, I go back to his reaction when golf was not coming easy to him. He was throwing temper tantrums and clubs at the same time. Again, not saying he can't do it, but it does not come naturally.

He has a lot to overcome from being raised as a spoiled brat. I understand why people are skeptical.

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JOhnny's physical gifts that set him apart in college don't seem to be setting him apart in the NFL, and not sure they will.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but how are you guys coming to these conclusions? He looked solid in the first preseason game. He looked bad in the second. Nevermind that these are preseason games with a below average team and his first taste of action in the NFL as a 21 (22?) year old... they're not even full games! How are you guys drawing these conclusions after such a small sample size? Are you legitimately writing him off for the rest of his career, or are you just using part of one bad game as an excuse to hate on him when you already hated him going in.

That's a serious question, by the way - are you really telling me you can draw meaningful conclusions on a rookie's entire career based on (less than) two preseason games?

How?

1. He's way to short... it took Drew Brees several years to really figure out how to see over an offensive line.

2. He's never had an actual offense to run... every game was Night at the Improv for him since he was a kid. It reminds me of the movie drumline where Nick Cannon is a prodigy drummer but never knew how to read music and they cut to a 2 minute montage of him learning. The only difference is there's not going to be some cute montage of Johnny learning how to understand an NFL playbook. It's going to take him a year or two to fully grasp the concepts of calling protections and audibling out of plays etc.

3. He's not actually that fast, he keeps getting all these comparisons to guys like RG3 and Vick for some reason, but he's really not that fast. Can he run? Sure, will he outrun many people in the NFL? No. He's about the speed of your average LB or an elite DE. He's slower than Griffin (4.41sec), Russell Wilson (4.55sec), Andrew Luck (4.67), Colin Kaepernick (4.53), Jake Locker (4.59), Cam Newton (4.59), Geno Smith (4.59), EJ Manuel (4.65) hell... he's slower than Blaine friggin' Cabbert at 4.62. Johnny ran a 4.68, that's fairly average for a QB these days.

All these motions of his physical gifts were so blown out of proportion. He's not that fast, he's not that agile and he has no real clue how to play the game of football. He's literally just Tim Tebow with a slightly better arm and half the size. I'll be shocked if he actually succeeds as everything is against him.

He's the size of Drew Brees or Russell Wilson without Wilson/Brees' arm strength and accuracy

He's actually pretty slow

And he has no idea how to play.

So it's all preconceived notions you had before the preseason. That's fine, but don't point to the preseason games as proof that he's definitely a bust. The bolded part is pretty much exactly my point.. you can't judge him on two preseason games. He needs time to learn and mature.

As far as the other stuff:

1. 40 times are just one indicator of athleticism.

2. You say he's not that agile. He's pretty agile.

3. lol at "he's actually pretty slow".

4. Calling him Tebow with a "slightly better arm" takes a lot away from everything you said before. Be better than that if you actually want to be taken seriously.

If that's how your evaluate rookies, okay... But in my experience if I thought someone wasn't good before the draft, felt he wasn't good after the draft and then when he finally hits the field he still doesn't look good? Wouldn't that be more confirmation of my views on the player than on the opposite?

I'm not saying he is doomed and it's impossible for him to succeed. I'm simply saying I didn't think his skill set translated to the NFL coming out of school. And in the small sample size we have, they still don't seem too.

I honestly feel the best thing for Manziel would be to sit behind Hoyer for a couple years (aka aaron Rodgers) to learn how to really play the NFL style of QB. Instead of the backyard football style. But that won't happen, the want for Johnny will be too high and he'll likely be starting by mid-season. And I think that'll ruin him. All his confidence he built up his entire life will be destroyed because he has no idea what to do. He'll become another Mark Sanchez. Turning the ball over a ton and not producing.

Edited by Khy
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So it's all preconceived notions you had before the preseason. That's fine, but don't point to the preseason games as proof that he's definitely a bust. The bolded part is pretty much exactly my point.. you can't judge him on two preseason games. He needs time to learn and mature.

As far as the other stuff:

1. 40 times are just one indicator of athleticism.

2. You say he's not that agile. He's pretty agile.

3. lol at "he's actually pretty slow".

4. Calling him Tebow with a "slightly better arm" takes a lot away from everything you said before. Be better than that if you actually want to be taken seriously.

The bolded is what concerns me about Manziel. Since he has been drafted he has shown very little interest in maturing. Maybe that will come in the next year, but because he has never had to mature, this doesn't come naturally to him. As for putting the time in to learn what he has to do as an NFL QB, I go back to his reaction when golf was not coming easy to him. He was throwing temper tantrums and clubs at the same time. Again, not saying he can't do it, but it does not come naturally.

He has a lot to overcome from being raised as a spoiled brat. I understand why people are skeptical.

This is a fair point. I worry about that too, especially after he flipped off the skins bench. Like everything else, we'll have to wait and see.

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So it's all preconceived notions you had before the preseason. That's fine, but don't point to the preseason games as proof that he's definitely a bust. The bolded part is pretty much exactly my point.. you can't judge him on two preseason games. He needs time to learn and mature.

As far as the other stuff:

1. 40 times are just one indicator of athleticism.

2. You say he's not that agile. He's pretty agile.

3. lol at "he's actually pretty slow".

4. Calling him Tebow with a "slightly better arm" takes a lot away from everything you said before. Be better than that if you actually want to be taken seriously.

The bolded is what concerns me about Manziel. Since he has been drafted he has shown very little interest in maturing. Maybe that will come in the next year, but because he has never had to mature, this doesn't come naturally to him. As for putting the time in to learn what he has to do as an NFL QB, I go back to his reaction when golf was not coming easy to him. He was throwing temper tantrums and clubs at the same time. Again, not saying he can't do it, but it does not come naturally.

He has a lot to overcome from being raised as a spoiled brat. I understand why people are skeptical.

He needs to learn and mature and perhaps a little more quickly than some of the QBs he's being compared to physically in this thread. The sample size (and mine) is very small but I've seen Vick and Kaep run away from NFL defenders. Is Manziel going to be able to do that?

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  • Faust changed the title to Official Johnny Manziel Thread - participates in Fan Controlled Football: 'Feels like I'm super washed up'

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