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WR Keenan Allen, CHI (2 Viewers)

jbz said:
Kitrick Taylor said:
Watched most of the game last night, and I'm not sure how anyone can say definitively that his TD that was reversed should have counted. The camera angles around the backside of the endzone were terrible in this game. He very well could have had his knee come down out of bounds. Which is what the referees reversed the call to.

Also, the reason Allen got the TD that he did was because of a 30 yard TD that Vincent Brown scored was called back a few plays earlier. The LT wasn't close enough to the line of scrimmage so there was an illegal formation penalty called.

I was impressed by Allen in this game. He's a better player than I thought going in. However, Vincent Brown showed he's far more than just a possession guy as well. He got behind coverage for a 51 yard bomb, and easily blew by coverage for the 30 yard TD that was called back. Brown still posted an 8/117 stat line.

I am very much inclined to agree with what the SD homers have been preaching. Gates is the #1 target. Beyond that, Rivers is going to spread it around. This week Brown and Allen shined. Next week it could be Royal again. IMO behind Gates everybody (Allen, Brown, Royal) is a dicey WR4.
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What's good about Brown's performance is that he showed he's not a scrub IMO. That means he can still draw the #1 cover guy on most teams, leaving Allen with a better match up. When Allen did most his damage, he had fellow rookie DJ Hayden on him and he took advantage. He also took advantage of a soft middle on the final drive, but it's not like the Chargers won't be in similar situations moving forward. I think he looked good and earned more confidence from Rivers in the process.
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Definitely agree here. Although Rivers does have the tendency to spread the ball, I highly doubt Allen would be able to function if he got any real attention from opposing defenses in his rookie year. As long as defenses still have to account for Gates, Brown and hell, even Royal, Allen should continue to draw favorable match-ups. As long as the targets are there (which they should), I think he can be productive.


Bigboy10182000 said:
FBG's saying he's a high floor WR2 going forward. Did he look THAT good this last week? I have Miles Austin rotting on my bench and I'm all for taking a shot on this guy if he could be legit...
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In short, yes. You honestly wouldn't think he was a rookie after watching the last two games.


 
For those of you saying that rivers has a tendency to spread the ball I have 3 names for you:

Vjax, Gates, danario.

Rivers has many times locked into all of those guys.

And what do they all have in common? They are big physical wrs with a my ball mentality. Rivers loves to throw balls up to wrs like that who can go up and make a play.

Keenan is that wr for him now. He is this years danario.

 
Craig_MiamiFL said:
Picked him up. PPR: I definitely don't see him as a WR2. I see more as a bye week fill in/WR4 type.

He had a nice final stat line. But he was at 3-45-1 with under 4 to play in comeback mode. Haven't had the chance to re-watch it yet, but I know the 30 yard catch at the end was against prevent.

To me, in a 12 team PPR league, saying he's a WR2 is going a bit overboard.
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Or we could say he is a rookie who is getting more and more snaps, more targets, more opps, I believe he has some big days ahead this year and I would say he can elevate to a WR3 in a 12 team league...Top 36 as the WR1 in SD might not be that much of stretch...he hasn't exactly peaked yet 5 games into his NFL career.

 
rickyg said:
For those of you saying that rivers has a tendency to spread the ball I have 3 names for you:

Vjax, Gates, danario.

Rivers has many times locked into all of those guys.

And what do they all have in common? They are big physical wrs with a my ball mentality. Rivers loves to throw balls up to wrs like that who can go up and make a play.

Keenan is that wr for him now. He is this years danario.
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As the year progresses this very well could become the case. If last weeks game is any indication of what to expect short-term as far as distribution is concerned however, he's certainly spreading it around rather evenly.

Gates - 10

Allen - 9

Woodhead - 9

Brown - 8

Royal - 8

Now, I consider Royal's target total to be a slight outlier (at the very least they fluctuate), but I think an injury (Brown specifically) would need to occur for him to see a larger percentage of targets than the rest of the pack. Even then, as previously mentioned, I like it that Brown is lining up opposite him.

 
SameSongNDance said:
rickyg said:
For those of you saying that rivers has a tendency to spread the ball I have 3 names for you:

Vjax, Gates, danario.

Rivers has many times locked into all of those guys.

And what do they all have in common? They are big physical wrs with a my ball mentality. Rivers loves to throw balls up to wrs like that who can go up and make a play.

Keenan is that wr for him now. He is this years danario.
Click to expand...
As the year progresses this very well could become the case. If last weeks game is any indication of what to expect short-term as far as distribution is concerned however, he's certainly spreading it around rather evenly.

Gates - 10

Allen - 9

Woodhead - 9

Brown - 8

Royal - 8

Now, I consider Royal's target total to be a slight outlier (at the very least they fluctuate), but I think an injury (Brown specifically) would need to occur for him to see a larger percentage of targets than the rest of the pack. Even then, as previously mentioned, I like it that Brown is lining up opposite him.
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As long as rivers averages 40 attempts, which I'm confident he will, I like Allen to see 2 or 3 red zone targets a week and 8 total targets a week seems reasonable. Brown a similar target average but less red zone.

 
I think many are underestimating Allen's pedigree due to the 3rd round drop and 40 time. I kinda like his floor and his ceiling going forward.

 
ryno1980 said:
SameSongNDance said:
rickyg said:
For those of you saying that rivers has a tendency to spread the ball I have 3 names for you:

Vjax, Gates, danario.

Rivers has many times locked into all of those guys.

And what do they all have in common? They are big physical wrs with a my ball mentality. Rivers loves to throw balls up to wrs like that who can go up and make a play.

Keenan is that wr for him now. He is this years danario.
Click to expand...
As the year progresses this very well could become the case. If last weeks game is any indication of what to expect short-term as far as distribution is concerned however, he's certainly spreading it around rather evenly.

Gates - 10

Allen - 9

Woodhead - 9

Brown - 8

Royal - 8

Now, I consider Royal's target total to be a slight outlier (at the very least they fluctuate), but I think an injury (Brown specifically) would need to occur for him to see a larger percentage of targets than the rest of the pack. Even then, as previously mentioned, I like it that Brown is lining up opposite him.
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As long as rivers averages 40 attempts, which I'm confident he will, I like Allen to see 2 or 3 red zone targets a week and 8 total targets a week seems reasonable. Brown a similar target average but less red zone.
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Agreed, as has been stated he could easily have had three TDs last week. Ultimately, I'm a huge proponent of Allen's (preemptively grabbed him everywhere last week) but I just want to keep expectations in check.

EDIT: Oh, I'm not sure I agree on the target totals actually. He'll get red zone looks but I doubt 2-3 a week. Also, he'll likely receive between 6-8 targets a week in total.

 
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SameSongNDance said:
ryno1980 said:
SameSongNDance said:
rickyg said:
For those of you saying that rivers has a tendency to spread the ball I have 3 names for you:

Vjax, Gates, danario.

Rivers has many times locked into all of those guys.

And what do they all have in common? They are big physical wrs with a my ball mentality. Rivers loves to throw balls up to wrs like that who can go up and make a play.

Keenan is that wr for him now. He is this years danario.
Click to expand...
As the year progresses this very well could become the case. If last weeks game is any indication of what to expect short-term as far as distribution is concerned however, he's certainly spreading it around rather evenly.

Gates - 10

Allen - 9

Woodhead - 9

Brown - 8

Royal - 8

Now, I consider Royal's target total to be a slight outlier (at the very least they fluctuate), but I think an injury (Brown specifically) would need to occur for him to see a larger percentage of targets than the rest of the pack. Even then, as previously mentioned, I like it that Brown is lining up opposite him.
Click to expand...
As long as rivers averages 40 attempts, which I'm confident he will, I like Allen to see 2 or 3 red zone targets a week and 8 total targets a week seems reasonable. Brown a similar target average but less red zone.
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Agreed, as has been stated he could easily have had three TDs last week. Ultimately, I'm a huge proponent of Allen's (preemptively grabbed him everywhere last week) but I just want to keep expectations in check.

EDIT: Oh, I'm not sure I agree on the target totals actually. He'll get red zone looks but I doubt 2-3 a week. Also, he'll likely receive between 6-8 targets a week in total.
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Maybe im still buzzing from seeing the three red zone throws to him On Monday morning football but yes that's an optimistic estimate. Rivers confidence in him has grown fast, giving me optimism for some big weeks.
 
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Not when you factor in the QB and offense situation. Rivers is slinging it around at quite a pace. Yes the Jags will likely be playing catch up all year long, but San Diego's schedule looks pretty good for them to be in some shoot outs too.

Games left vs the Skins, Giants, 2 games left vs Denver (one in week 15) and another match up with the Raiders in week 16. Even this week vs Colts might be a nice match up again. I'm buying in all my leagues.

 
cvnpoka said:
Giving up Cecil for KA seems like pure insanity
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:goodposting:

As long as Rivers and Gates are playing at elite levels and Allen is drawing single coverage (especially from non-elite CBs) he could have some success. But that doesn't say much about his longer-term prospects IMO.

Mike Martz used to say something to the effect that any NFL receiver that can't beat single coverage won't be in the NFL for long. It's the starting point. A given.

But if Allen were in Shorts's position -- where he was the only WR option (pre-Blackmon), drawing double-coverage and playing with a bad QB -- I think he'd be dead in the water. And since situations are changing all the time, I want the guys who are as situation proof as possible.

 
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.

 
cvnpoka said:
Giving up Cecil for KA seems like pure insanity
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Yeah, I would agree that giving up Shorts for Allen is not a good move...at least at this point in a PPR league. Jags are playing from behind most weeks and with the limited number of receiving options for the Jags, Shorts will have a pretty high floor every week. Allen has been productive two weeks in a row, but he is going to be a little bit up and down during the season as Rivers spreads the ball around to Gates, Woodhead, Allen, Brown, and Royal.

I picked up Allen this week as I'm high on him, but I did it by dropping Marlon Brown....I would not drop Shorts for him.

 
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
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:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.

 
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
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Except that Shorts has produced

 
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Except that Shorts is already a top 20 fantasy WR in PPR and just had a 18 point game (second highest of the season) with Blackmon there :shrug:

 
HurryUpSundays said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EF0N9S_ZDg

I've yet to see him play for the bolts, but dude looks damn good here.

He's in a great situation and FBGs are extremely high on the rookie. Waldman touted him as the second most talented rookie WR in this year's class, behind Patterson.
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Nice clip. Check out the routes he runs on consecutive plays at 1:28. Also check out how much of his production came on crappily thrown balls and against double coverage.

 
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Last 4 weeks for Shorts in my PPR league:

17, 22, 13, 18

Would not drop that for Allen.

 
Dropped Bowe for Allen in redraft. I know nobody cares but I see Allen rest of season as a better option in PPR and like his redzone looks much more than Bowe.

 
Dropped hartline for Allen. Feel like hartline reached his ceiling already and Keenan gets looked in redzone. Plus the emergence of clay doesn't help hartline either

 
CentralPA said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Last 4 weeks for Shorts in my PPR league:

17, 22, 13, 18

Would not drop that for Allen.
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Fair enough. For me this is more a projection question than a history review, particularly considering the Jags had no WR1 and had a LT in the past. I'll admit I'm soured as an MJD owner who is disgusted with that offense, and maybe I should look at the receiving situation differently. Generally speaking, I would avoid WR2s on teams that have bad QBs and any question at all at LT. If you feel C.Shorts can continue to produce go forward with Gabbert, competition with an uberstud WR, and no LT, more power to you. Personally I'd lean toward the budding playmaker in a pass happy offense.

 
Shorts in his 14 games as a starter: 78-1185-6 (16.6 ppg).

16.6ppg would have finished as WR #13, #6, #10, #10 and #10 in the last five years.

 
BigJim® said:
CentralPA said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting: Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Last 4 weeks for Shorts in my PPR league:17, 22, 13, 18

Would not drop that for Allen.
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Fair enough. For me this is more a projection question than a history review, particularly considering the Jags had no WR1 and had a LT in the past. I'll admit I'm soured as an MJD owner who is disgusted with that offense, and maybe I should look at the receiving situation differently. Generally speaking, I would avoid WR2s on teams that have bad QBs and any question at all at LT. If you feel C.Shorts can continue to produce go forward with Gabbert, competition with an uberstud WR, and no LT, more power to you. Personally I'd lean toward the budding playmaker in a pass happy offense.
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Why are you just assuming Shorts is WR2 in Jax? Nothing pointing to that.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Except that Shorts is already a top 20 fantasy WR in PPR and just had a 18 point game (second highest of the season) with Blackmon there :shrug:
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And he did the same thing all of last year with the same 2 Qbs.

 
RBM said:
Why are you just assuming Shorts is WR2 in Jax? Nothing pointing to that.
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Fair point - despite Blackmon's post-suspension breakout, Shorts still had one more target than Blackmon.

That said, Blackmon strikes me as a true go-to receiver - the two are perhaps a poor man's Demaryius Thomas/Eric Decker situation.

 
Sweetness_34 said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Except that Shorts is already a top 20 fantasy WR in PPR and just had a 18 point game (second highest of the season) with Blackmon there :shrug:
Click to expand...
And he did the same thing all of last year with the same 2 Qbs.
Click to expand...
There is a Cecil Shorts thread already, gentlemen.

 
HurryUpSundays said:
Sweetness_34 said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Except that Shorts is already a top 20 fantasy WR in PPR and just had a 18 point game (second highest of the season) with Blackmon there :shrug:
Click to expand...
And he did the same thing all of last year with the same 2 Qbs.
Click to expand...
There is a Cecil Shorts thread already, gentlemen.
Click to expand...
And then you can go to that one and let us knows there's a Keenan Allen thread....

 
Okay, enough of this "who would you rather have" nonsense.

I'm going to repost an earlier post..

IND isn't OAK, and OAK taking an early lead was obviously the best case scenario for Allen owners last week.

IND is allowing the the 14th fewest points to opposing WRs in standard (13th fewest in PPR) so they're a bit more stout this year than people had expected. I do not believe however that this is an accurate representation of IND's ability as they have faced OAK, MIA, SF, JAC and SEA, all which (aside from MIA who is ranked 15th) rank bottom 10 in the league in passing YPG. SD will be INDs first real test on defense this year IMO.

IND also seems to be susceptible to opposing teams blatant WR1s, as they've given up the most points to D.Moore (5/43/1), Wallace(5/115/1), Boldin (5/67/0), Shorts (7/61/0) and Tate (5/61/1). This may bode well for Allen, as he fits the WR1 mold and is obviously being heavily utilized in the RZ.

Lastly, the game is on Monday night, and next to DAL vs. WAS, is projected to be the highest scoring affair of the week. I'm going to keep expectations tempered but I think a 5/60/1 stat line is very doable.

So who is starting him this week? What are you guys expecting? I'm a huge proponent but not near ready to label him a WR2 (need to see some consistent targets/production first). I do like him as a WR3/flex with a high ceiling however.

 
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Bigboy10182000 said:
HurryUpSundays said:
Sweetness_34 said:
Bigboy10182000 said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Except that Shorts is already a top 20 fantasy WR in PPR and just had a 18 point game (second highest of the season) with Blackmon there :shrug:
Click to expand...
And he did the same thing all of last year with the same 2 Qbs.
Click to expand...
There is a Cecil Shorts thread already, gentlemen.
Click to expand...
And then you can go to that one and let us knows there's a Keenan Allen thread....
Click to expand...
I wasn't trying to hurt your feelings, Big Boy. Just stay on topic for me. Thanks.

 
@SameSong: FWIW I'm mulling over starting Allen @ one of my 2 FLEX spots (we only HAVE to start 1 RB; .5 PPR), but that means benching Lacy @ Balt. My opinion is that who's deemed the #1 here is more or less irrelevant based on recent usage & the apparent situation. There will be plenty of targets to go around barring a barrage of DST TDs by the Chargers

 
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I was fortunate to pick this guy up also, mainly based on this site because I've yet to see him play. It's hard to fathom starting him over a few of my other WR's (names like Reggie Wayne, DT, etc), but the way everyone is talking him up I might have to chance it.

 
He's currently my WR4 in a start 3. I really want to start him this week, but can't with the other match ups my other guys have (Gordon, Decker, Jordy) But I would like to see another solid performance on MNF to accomplish two things.

1) solidify his position as a key WR on a pass happy team that can be trusted weekly in most leagues

2) increase his potential trade value as there are teams out there with holes at WR with injuries and under performers. Maybe not even use him to trade, but make me feel a lot more comfortable about trading my other more proven WRs to help other positions

 
munygon2 said:
I was fortunate to pick this guy up also, mainly based on this site because I've yet to see him play. It's hard to fathom starting him over a few of my other WR's (names like Reggie Wayne, DT, etc), but the way everyone is talking him up I might have to chance it.
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i'm as high on allen as anyone here (started him last week at flex in a 14 teamer), but i would not start him over wayne or DT. i'm starting him over guys like tompkins, b bolden, mendy. and probably sitting him this week for decker, gordon, and vjax. imo he's a great bye week option with serious upside at this point.

 
Bigboy10182000 said:
BigJim® said:
ryno1980 said:
I like receivers with quarterbacks on pace for 5,000 yards not receivers on teams being discussed as one of the worst in nfl history.
Click to expand...
:goodposting:

Jacksonville has score 51 points through 5 games, has recommitted to Gabbert starting, and just traded away their LT. Other than Blackmon I wouldn't touch anyone on that god foresaken offense. They seemingly aren't even capable of garbage production.
Click to expand...
Except that Shorts is already a top 20 fantasy WR in PPR and just had a 18 point game (second highest of the season) with Blackmon there :shrug:
Click to expand...
and henne is starting this week... so that was dumb post saying only blackmon is worth anything LOL Geez you wonder if some of these guys watch football?

 
Just picked him up for Terrance WIlliams and will be starting him at flex this week over Stevie Johnson.

 
Watched the whole game with royal in my lineup and needed 4 more points than I got. A few of Royals targets were not catchable but throwaways. KW looked to be in the field the whole game. I dropped Vjax earlier in the year for Edelman. I got kw after that game. Target data is good but not including dump offs or throwaways, they seemed to run more plays through Gates and KW and to a lesser extent VJ.... And I'm dropping royal.

 
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barista said:
Watched the whole game with royal in my lineup and needed 4 more points than I got. A few of Royals targets were not catchable but throwaways. KW looked to be in the field the whole game. I dropped Vjax earlier in the year for Edelman. I got kw after that game. Target data is good but not including dump offs or throwaways, they seemed to run more plays through Gates and KW and to a lesser extent VJ.... And I'm dropping royal.
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Were you drunk after watching the fights when you typed (and edited) this?

 
LawFitz said:
barista said:
Watched the whole game with royal in my lineup and needed 4 more points than I got. A few of Royals targets were not catchable but throwaways. KW looked to be in the field the whole game. I dropped Vjax earlier in the year for Edelman. I got kw after that game. Target data is good but not including dump offs or throwaways, they seemed to run more plays through Gates and KW and to a lesser extent VJ.... And I'm dropping royal.
Click to expand...
Were you drunk after watching the fights when you typed (and edited) this?
Click to expand...
This is real fantasy football where Eddie Royal, Kellen Winslow, Vincent Jackson and Antonio Gates all play together on the same Chargers roster.

 
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