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Official EJ Manuel (1 Viewer)

FUBAR said:
RushHour said:
What if Orton completely sucks as well. Do they give Manuel another shot?
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Probably. But he likely won't completely suck. Most likely he'll be competent but he's not the future. EJ will probably get the job back by the end of the year if he plays well in practice and the bills aren't making the playoffs.
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Orton is only 32. He doesn't have to hold the job for 5 years, but if he's competent, they can stick with him for 2+ years.

With the protection breakdowns though, I think it's more likely Orton gets injured at some point and Manuel comes back in. I also don't think it would be a bad idea if they came up with some packages and situations to use him in since he's more mobile than Orton. For example, I don't think Orton can run the read option plays they wanted as a big piece of the offense with Manuel under center.

 
cstu said:
No offense, but you said you re-watched the last game and saw 4 and possibly a 5th drop by Buffalo WRs in the 1st half alone. Considering they have been credited with a grand total of 3 drops for the entire season, it's pretty obvious you aren't seeing the same things that everyone else is.
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- Q1 14:25 - Watkins drops a pass that hits him right the hands

- Q1 5:41 - Watkins drops another pass right in his hands

- Q2 11:45 - I called this a drop by Williams but the DB did get an arm in to knock it loose

- Q2 3:43 - Ball bounces off Woods' right shoulder

There's zero question about the two Watkins drops in my mind.
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So is it 2 drops or 4 maybe 5?

What about the rest of it? Do you think EJ was considered in the same class of prospect as McNabb or most of the other guys brought up in here as comparisons? That's the difference.

 
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Holy Schneikes said:
You don't think a lot of folks were using the benefit of hindsight to say "We aren't surprised McNabb is sucking, he was drafted way too high to being with..."?


Bottom line, folks asked for examples of guys that seriously turned it around, and there are some great ones. No comparison is going to be perfect.

But of course just because there are examples of some guys turning it around, there are a ton more for guys who washed out. So your opinion on HIS game may be (and probably is, just based on historical results) perfectly valid. But you are nitpicking on the examples.
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That's precisely the difference- sure, plenty of people come out after the fact saying "I knew it", but I'm talking about before that. Prior to their drafts, people weren't saying that McNabb should be a 3rd-4th round pick, and they weren't saying that Elway was a project who needed to work on throwing the football, like they were with EJ.

This isn't (all) hindsight with EJ- many people have never been a fan and thought he was way over-drafted.
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People thought Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were reaches. I don't think Kaepernick had even started a game by this point in his career.
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I'm not sure what your point is.
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You haven't liked the other comparisons made of guys who turned their careers around after struggling early because their picks were not panned at the time. Flacco and Kaepernick are examples of players who struggled early (or struggled finding the field early), and their picks were panned by a lot of draft experts as being taken way too early, but have had successful NFL careers. They haven't been All-Pro's, but I don't think anyone is saying that Manuel will turn into that. If Manuel is able to to take the Bills to a Super Bowl title (or appearance), I think Bills fans would consider that a successful career.

 
cstu said:
No offense, but you said you re-watched the last game and saw 4 and possibly a 5th drop by Buffalo WRs in the 1st half alone. Considering they have been credited with a grand total of 3 drops for the entire season, it's pretty obvious you aren't seeing the same things that everyone else is.
Click to expand...
- Q1 14:25 - Watkins drops a pass that hits him right the hands

- Q1 5:41 - Watkins drops another pass right in his hands

- Q2 11:45 - I called this a drop by Williams but the DB did get an arm in to knock it loose

- Q2 3:43 - Ball bounces off Woods' right shoulder

There's zero question about the two Watkins drops in my mind.
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When you say 'right in his hands,' was he hit in stride with the ball out in front of his numbers? or did he have to stop/slow down/reach back and wasn't able to haul it in? If so, I can see where you'd say he should have caught it, but I'd argue it was still a bad throw. This is just going based off memory and I'm not subjecting myself to that horrendous film again, but I've seen several throws like this from EJ in both college and the pros (including the game vs. Houston). His ball placement is consistently terrible.

 
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Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Holy Schneikes said:
You don't think a lot of folks were using the benefit of hindsight to say "We aren't surprised McNabb is sucking, he was drafted way too high to being with..."?


Bottom line, folks asked for examples of guys that seriously turned it around, and there are some great ones. No comparison is going to be perfect.

But of course just because there are examples of some guys turning it around, there are a ton more for guys who washed out. So your opinion on HIS game may be (and probably is, just based on historical results) perfectly valid. But you are nitpicking on the examples.
Click to expand...
That's precisely the difference- sure, plenty of people come out after the fact saying "I knew it", but I'm talking about before that. Prior to their drafts, people weren't saying that McNabb should be a 3rd-4th round pick, and they weren't saying that Elway was a project who needed to work on throwing the football, like they were with EJ.

This isn't (all) hindsight with EJ- many people have never been a fan and thought he was way over-drafted.
Click to expand...
People thought Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were reaches. I don't think Kaepernick had even started a game by this point in his career.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your point is.
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You haven't liked the other comparisons made of guys who turned their careers around after struggling early because their picks were not panned at the time. Flacco and Kaepernick are examples of players who struggled early (or struggled finding the field early), and their picks were panned by a lot of draft experts as being taken way too early, but have had successful NFL careers. They haven't been All-Pro's, but I don't think anyone is saying that Manuel will turn into that. If Manuel is able to to take the Bills to a Super Bowl title (or appearance), I think Bills fans would consider that a successful career.
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:lmao:

 
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Holy Schneikes said:
You don't think a lot of folks were using the benefit of hindsight to say "We aren't surprised McNabb is sucking, he was drafted way too high to being with..."?


Bottom line, folks asked for examples of guys that seriously turned it around, and there are some great ones. No comparison is going to be perfect.

But of course just because there are examples of some guys turning it around, there are a ton more for guys who washed out. So your opinion on HIS game may be (and probably is, just based on historical results) perfectly valid. But you are nitpicking on the examples.
Click to expand...
That's precisely the difference- sure, plenty of people come out after the fact saying "I knew it", but I'm talking about before that. Prior to their drafts, people weren't saying that McNabb should be a 3rd-4th round pick, and they weren't saying that Elway was a project who needed to work on throwing the football, like they were with EJ.

This isn't (all) hindsight with EJ- many people have never been a fan and thought he was way over-drafted.
Click to expand...
People thought Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were reaches. I don't think Kaepernick had even started a game by this point in his career.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your point is.
Click to expand...
You haven't liked the other comparisons made of guys who turned their careers around after struggling early because their picks were not panned at the time. Flacco and Kaepernick are examples of players who struggled early (or struggled finding the field early), and their picks were panned by a lot of draft experts as being taken way too early, but have had successful NFL careers. They haven't been All-Pro's, but I don't think anyone is saying that Manuel will turn into that. If Manuel is able to to take the Bills to a Super Bowl title (or appearance), I think Bills fans would consider that a successful career.
Click to expand...
I haven't liked the comparisons because the situations haven't been comparable IMO. Ability to throw the football was Flacco's biggest strength, and he didn't struggle early- he set the record for most wins by a rookie QB, was the first one in NFL history to win 2 road playoff games, and was the rookie of the year. He also showed steady progress in year 2. Kaepernick is a closer fit to EJ as a prospect, but he was the 6th QB selected in the 2nd round and was drafted as a project- they still had former #1 overall pick Alex Smith as their starter, so it's a bit strange to hold it against him that he "struggled to find the field early" when they didn't plan to play him early. He also played much better than EJ early in his career- he was 7th in the NFL in QB rating and reached the Super Bowl in his first year as a starter.

Lol at Manuel taking the Bills to a SB title- of course Bills fans would consider that a success, but why bother discussing that when it hasn't happened?

I'm not saying the book is closed on his NFL career, but I don't think these comps are even close.

 
georg013 said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Holy Schneikes said:
You don't think a lot of folks were using the benefit of hindsight to say "We aren't surprised McNabb is sucking, he was drafted way too high to being with..."?


Bottom line, folks asked for examples of guys that seriously turned it around, and there are some great ones. No comparison is going to be perfect.

But of course just because there are examples of some guys turning it around, there are a ton more for guys who washed out. So your opinion on HIS game may be (and probably is, just based on historical results) perfectly valid. But you are nitpicking on the examples.
Click to expand...
That's precisely the difference- sure, plenty of people come out after the fact saying "I knew it", but I'm talking about before that. Prior to their drafts, people weren't saying that McNabb should be a 3rd-4th round pick, and they weren't saying that Elway was a project who needed to work on throwing the football, like they were with EJ.

This isn't (all) hindsight with EJ- many people have never been a fan and thought he was way over-drafted.
Click to expand...
People thought Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were reaches. I don't think Kaepernick had even started a game by this point in his career.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your point is.
Click to expand...
You haven't liked the other comparisons made of guys who turned their careers around after struggling early because their picks were not panned at the time. Flacco and Kaepernick are examples of players who struggled early (or struggled finding the field early), and their picks were panned by a lot of draft experts as being taken way too early, but have had successful NFL careers. They haven't been All-Pro's, but I don't think anyone is saying that Manuel will turn into that. If Manuel is able to to take the Bills to a Super Bowl title (or appearance), I think Bills fans would consider that a successful career.
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:lmao:
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I said "if." I didn't say it was likely. :shrug:

 
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Holy Schneikes said:
You don't think a lot of folks were using the benefit of hindsight to say "We aren't surprised McNabb is sucking, he was drafted way too high to being with..."?


Bottom line, folks asked for examples of guys that seriously turned it around, and there are some great ones. No comparison is going to be perfect.

But of course just because there are examples of some guys turning it around, there are a ton more for guys who washed out. So your opinion on HIS game may be (and probably is, just based on historical results) perfectly valid. But you are nitpicking on the examples.
Click to expand...
That's precisely the difference- sure, plenty of people come out after the fact saying "I knew it", but I'm talking about before that. Prior to their drafts, people weren't saying that McNabb should be a 3rd-4th round pick, and they weren't saying that Elway was a project who needed to work on throwing the football, like they were with EJ.

This isn't (all) hindsight with EJ- many people have never been a fan and thought he was way over-drafted.
Click to expand...
People thought Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were reaches. I don't think Kaepernick had even started a game by this point in his career.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your point is.
Click to expand...
You haven't liked the other comparisons made of guys who turned their careers around after struggling early because their picks were not panned at the time. Flacco and Kaepernick are examples of players who struggled early (or struggled finding the field early), and their picks were panned by a lot of draft experts as being taken way too early, but have had successful NFL careers. They haven't been All-Pro's, but I don't think anyone is saying that Manuel will turn into that. If Manuel is able to to take the Bills to a Super Bowl title (or appearance), I think Bills fans would consider that a successful career.
Click to expand...
I haven't liked the comparisons because the situations haven't been comparable IMO. Ability to throw the football was Flacco's biggest strength, and he didn't struggle early- he set the record for most wins by a rookie QB, was the first one in NFL history to win 2 road playoff games, and was the rookie of the year. He also showed steady progress in year 2. Kaepernick is a closer fit to EJ as a prospect, but he was the 6th QB selected in the 2nd round and was drafted as a project- they still had former #1 overall pick Alex Smith as their starter, so it's a bit strange to hold it against him that he "struggled to find the field early" when they didn't plan to play him early. He also played much better than EJ early in his career- he was 7th in the NFL in QB rating and reached the Super Bowl in his first year as a starter.

Lol at Manuel taking the Bills to a SB title- of course Bills fans would consider that a success, but why bother discussing that when it hasn't happened?

I'm not saying the book is closed on his NFL career, but I don't think these comps are even close.
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Manuel was supposed to sit behind Kolb, like Kaepernick sat behind Smith. Kolb's concussion put an end to that plan though.

The comparisons were just raised to support the possibility that he could still turn it around. If you agree that the book is not closed on his NFL career, then I'm not sure what you are arguing against.

 
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Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Don Quixote said:
humpback said:
Holy Schneikes said:
You don't think a lot of folks were using the benefit of hindsight to say "We aren't surprised McNabb is sucking, he was drafted way too high to being with..."?


Bottom line, folks asked for examples of guys that seriously turned it around, and there are some great ones. No comparison is going to be perfect.

But of course just because there are examples of some guys turning it around, there are a ton more for guys who washed out. So your opinion on HIS game may be (and probably is, just based on historical results) perfectly valid. But you are nitpicking on the examples.
Click to expand...
That's precisely the difference- sure, plenty of people come out after the fact saying "I knew it", but I'm talking about before that. Prior to their drafts, people weren't saying that McNabb should be a 3rd-4th round pick, and they weren't saying that Elway was a project who needed to work on throwing the football, like they were with EJ.

This isn't (all) hindsight with EJ- many people have never been a fan and thought he was way over-drafted.
Click to expand...
People thought Joe Flacco and Colin Kaepernick were reaches. I don't think Kaepernick had even started a game by this point in his career.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what your point is.
Click to expand...
You haven't liked the other comparisons made of guys who turned their careers around after struggling early because their picks were not panned at the time. Flacco and Kaepernick are examples of players who struggled early (or struggled finding the field early), and their picks were panned by a lot of draft experts as being taken way too early, but have had successful NFL careers. They haven't been All-Pro's, but I don't think anyone is saying that Manuel will turn into that. If Manuel is able to to take the Bills to a Super Bowl title (or appearance), I think Bills fans would consider that a successful career.
Click to expand...
I haven't liked the comparisons because the situations haven't been comparable IMO. Ability to throw the football was Flacco's biggest strength, and he didn't struggle early- he set the record for most wins by a rookie QB, was the first one in NFL history to win 2 road playoff games, and was the rookie of the year. He also showed steady progress in year 2. Kaepernick is a closer fit to EJ as a prospect, but he was the 6th QB selected in the 2nd round and was drafted as a project- they still had former #1 overall pick Alex Smith as their starter, so it's a bit strange to hold it against him that he "struggled to find the field early" when they didn't plan to play him early. He also played much better than EJ early in his career- he was 7th in the NFL in QB rating and reached the Super Bowl in his first year as a starter.

Lol at Manuel taking the Bills to a SB title- of course Bills fans would consider that a success, but why bother discussing that when it hasn't happened?

I'm not saying the book is closed on his NFL career, but I don't think these comps are even close.
Click to expand...
Manuel was supposed to sit behind Kolb, like Kaepernick sat behind Smith. Kolb's concussion put an end to that plan though.

The comparisons were just raised to support the possibility that he could still turn it around. If you agree that the book is not closed on his NFL career, then I'm not sure what you are arguing against.
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I'm saying they don't support the possibility that he could still "turn it around" because the situations weren't remotely the same, primarily due to the fact that Flacco and Kaep didn't have anything to "turn around". They both played much better than EJ early in their careers (plus all of the other differences in their circumstances that I mentioned).

Regardless of what happens with Manuel in the future, those guys are essentially irrelevant as comps, but let's just move on.

 
Cheesedawg said:
Is he a hold in re-draft or not? Does anyone think he will reclaim the job and perform better this season?
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He very well might reclaim his job and perform better at some point in the future, but he shouldn't be on any rosters right now - dynasty or redraft.

 
The one thing that I do like that Manuel said when asked what he would/will do different if/when he plays again, is he said he would go out there and "just rip it."

You can see that he's late on throws or sometimes struggles with his accuracy because he is thinking too much and tries to "aim" the ball because he's afraid of making mistakes. I've been yelling at my tv for a year now at him to just go out there and sling the ball. I think hints happen so fast in the NFL that QBs need to just trust their preparation and their initial reads and gun it almost as if by instinct. The processing and connections are being made so quickly that they're better off just doing it rather than overthinking and double checking to make sure they are correct.

So if he really means it and can actually do it, I do think it would be an improvement for him. I mean, when you watch him throw, he looks like he's afraid every time he throws it. He doesn't look confident at all. His weight transfer is all messed up because he doesn't put his whole body into throws. It's like he's throwing darts or something.

 
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Oh so now he is ready to rip it. He shoud have been "ripping it" from day 1. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 
This story is from yesterday, but is exactly what you'd want to hear from Manuel at this point.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11629515/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-says-wants-different-player

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- After being benched Monday in favor of Kyle Orton, Buffalo Billsquarterback EJ Manuel made it clear Thursday how he wants to play if he gets another chance to start.

"When I am out there, I want to be a different player," Manuel said. "I just want to cut it loose, man, not hold myself back. Not to say I was, but I think at certain points in your career, in your manhood, you just open up and let it rip.

Of recent quarterbacks selected in the first round who have been benched, few have recovered to again become NFL starters. Manuel, who was selected 16th overall in 2013, wants to buck that trend."You don't worry about the repercussions. If something happens, at least you went down guns loaded, or guns blown, whatever. You just go out there and let it rip. That's what I've been practicing out there this week, against our defense, so just allowing myself to go out and make plays naturally."

"Maybe I can be the first," Manuel said. "Who knows."

Manuel didn't divulge specifics from his conversation with coach Doug Marrone about why he was benched, but he identified some areas where he could improve from his play over the first 14 games of his career.

"When this happened, obviously I was upset and frustrated. But at the same time, be a man, be a pro. I kicked up my work ethic even more," Manuel said. "Be more consistent with everything: how the ball is coming out of my hands, my enunciation in the huddle, all those types of things."

Some players in the Bills' locker room were surprised by the switch at quarterback this week, but rookie receiver Sammy Watkins said Wednesday that Orton was already impressing with his command of the huddle and a quick release.

Manuel said Orton has been supportive of him this week.

"I think it's about the team. The team is bigger than I am," Manuel said. "Whatever [Marrone] feels is best to help this team, we'll go with it."
Click to expand...
 
OC Zed said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
OC Zed said:
Cheesedawg said:
Is he a hold in re-draft or not? Does anyone think he will reclaim the job and perform better this season?
Click to expand...
He very well might reclaim his job and perform better at some point in the future, but he shouldn't be on any rosters right now - dynasty or redraft.
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I disagree.
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In re the former or latter?
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in a 16-team dynasty league with deep rosters, no way I'm cutting a QB drafted in the first round of the 2013 draft. that's madness.

Orton could be knocked out for the season in the first quarter against the Lions. Picking up some 5th string WR on waivers with that roster spot isn't going to help much.

A smart owner would probably have both Manuel and Orton rostered and be happy to use the combination as a QB2 the rest of the way.

 
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Aaron Rudnicki said:
OC Zed said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
OC Zed said:
Cheesedawg said:
Is he a hold in re-draft or not? Does anyone think he will reclaim the job and perform better this season?
Click to expand...
He very well might reclaim his job and perform better at some point in the future, but he shouldn't be on any rosters right now - dynasty or redraft.
Click to expand...
I disagree.
Click to expand...
In re the former or latter?
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in a 16-team dynasty league with deep rosters, no way I'm cutting a QB drafted in the first round of the 2013 draft. that's madness.

Orton could be knocked out for the season in the first quarter against the Lions. Picking up some 5th string WR on waivers with that roster spot isn't going to help much.
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A 16-team is fairly large and I guess it depends how deep your rosters run. But for most 8-12 leagues with regular sized benches (1 QB starts), there are usually plenty of free agent QBs available that are already putting up decent points.

Even though some of us still have hope Manuel can eventually be good/serviceable, I think most of us also agree that his ceiling will never be in the Top 5 category. Or maybe that's just me... At this point, I'd rather take a flyer on Mike Glennon, Zack Mettenberger, Jimmy Garoppolo or maybe even Ryan Mallet as long-term development plays in super deep leagues.

 
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OC Zed said:
Even though some of us still have hope Manuel can eventually be good/serviceable, I think most of us also agree that his ceiling will never be in the Top 5 category. Or maybe that's just me... At this point, I'd rather take a flyer on Mike Glennon, Zack Mettenberger, Jimmy Garoppolo or maybe even Ryan Mallet as long-term plays in super deep leagues.
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none of those guys are available in any dynasty leagues I play in.

:shrug:

EDIT: Just checked one 12-team league and there are 41 QBs rostered. I don't get the shtick about a guy needing 'top-5' potential to be worth a roster spot.

 
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Aaron Rudnicki said:
OC Zed said:
Even though some of us still have hope Manuel can eventually be good/serviceable, I think most of us also agree that his ceiling will never be in the Top 5 category. Or maybe that's just me... At this point, I'd rather take a flyer on Mike Glennon, Zack Mettenberger, Jimmy Garoppolo or maybe even Ryan Mallet as long-term plays in super deep leagues.
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none of those guys are available in any dynasty leagues I play in.

:shrug:

EDIT: Just checked one 12-team league and there are 41 QBs rostered.
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Wow, that's a lot (assuming 1 QB start). Seems nuts to me, but I guess that's another discussion altogether.

 
OC Zed said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
OC Zed said:
Even though some of us still have hope Manuel can eventually be good/serviceable, I think most of us also agree that his ceiling will never be in the Top 5 category. Or maybe that's just me... At this point, I'd rather take a flyer on Mike Glennon, Zack Mettenberger, Jimmy Garoppolo or maybe even Ryan Mallet as long-term plays in super deep leagues.
Click to expand...
none of those guys are available in any dynasty leagues I play in.

:shrug:

EDIT: Just checked one 12-team league and there are 41 QBs rostered.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a lot (assuming 1 QB start). Seems nuts to me, but I guess that's another discussion altogether.
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I'm sure that's more telling of the roster size than anything else. I have a similar league but it's IDP (start 11) and 55 man rosters. There are no QBs on the wire.

As to the post where you quoted EJ's response, the most glaring thing there is the sample size of 14 games. He's got lots of work to do but that's a very quick hook. Hopefully for EJ (and the team I have him :D ) this is a motivational tool for a kid that maybe hasn't had his head completely in it, and not an indictment of his ability to develop, improve, and "get it" at the pro level.

 
Flying Elvis said:
OC Zed said:
Aaron Rudnicki said:
OC Zed said:
Even though some of us still have hope Manuel can eventually be good/serviceable, I think most of us also agree that his ceiling will never be in the Top 5 category. Or maybe that's just me... At this point, I'd rather take a flyer on Mike Glennon, Zack Mettenberger, Jimmy Garoppolo or maybe even Ryan Mallet as long-term plays in super deep leagues.
Click to expand...
none of those guys are available in any dynasty leagues I play in.

:shrug:

EDIT: Just checked one 12-team league and there are 41 QBs rostered.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a lot (assuming 1 QB start). Seems nuts to me, but I guess that's another discussion altogether.
Click to expand...
I'm sure that's more telling of the roster size than anything else. I have a similar league but it's IDP (start 11) and 55 man rosters. There are no QBs on the wire.
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:jawdrop:

That's like net fishing for players.

 
OC Zed said:
This story is from yesterday, but is exactly what you'd want to hear from Manuel at this point.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11629515/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-says-wants-different-player

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- After being benched Monday in favor of Kyle Orton, Buffalo Billsquarterback EJ Manuel made it clear Thursday how he wants to play if he gets another chance to start.

"When I am out there, I want to be a different player," Manuel said. "I just want to cut it loose, man, not hold myself back. Not to say I was, but I think at certain points in your career, in your manhood, you just open up and let it rip.

Of recent quarterbacks selected in the first round who have been benched, few have recovered to again become NFL starters. Manuel, who was selected 16th overall in 2013, wants to buck that trend."You don't worry about the repercussions. If something happens, at least you went down guns loaded, or guns blown, whatever. You just go out there and let it rip. That's what I've been practicing out there this week, against our defense, so just allowing myself to go out and make plays naturally."

"Maybe I can be the first," Manuel said. "Who knows."

Manuel didn't divulge specifics from his conversation with coach Doug Marrone about why he was benched, but he identified some areas where he could improve from his play over the first 14 games of his career.

"When this happened, obviously I was upset and frustrated. But at the same time, be a man, be a pro. I kicked up my work ethic even more," Manuel said. "Be more consistent with everything: how the ball is coming out of my hands, my enunciation in the huddle, all those types of things."

Some players in the Bills' locker room were surprised by the switch at quarterback this week, but rookie receiver Sammy Watkins said Wednesday that Orton was already impressing with his command of the huddle and a quick release.

Manuel said Orton has been supportive of him this week.

"I think it's about the team. The team is bigger than I am," Manuel said. "Whatever [Marrone] feels is best to help this team, we'll go with it."
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What else would you expect from a guy who is trying to secure the backup position? He is a crappy quarterback not a bad person. Nothing to see here.

 
georg013 said:
OC Zed said:
This story is from yesterday, but is exactly what you'd want to hear from Manuel at this point.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11629515/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-says-wants-different-player

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- After being benched Monday in favor of Kyle Orton, Buffalo Billsquarterback EJ Manuel made it clear Thursday how he wants to play if he gets another chance to start.

"When I am out there, I want to be a different player," Manuel said. "I just want to cut it loose, man, not hold myself back. Not to say I was, but I think at certain points in your career, in your manhood, you just open up and let it rip.

Of recent quarterbacks selected in the first round who have been benched, few have recovered to again become NFL starters. Manuel, who was selected 16th overall in 2013, wants to buck that trend."You don't worry about the repercussions. If something happens, at least you went down guns loaded, or guns blown, whatever. You just go out there and let it rip. That's what I've been practicing out there this week, against our defense, so just allowing myself to go out and make plays naturally."

"Maybe I can be the first," Manuel said. "Who knows."

Manuel didn't divulge specifics from his conversation with coach Doug Marrone about why he was benched, but he identified some areas where he could improve from his play over the first 14 games of his career.

"When this happened, obviously I was upset and frustrated. But at the same time, be a man, be a pro. I kicked up my work ethic even more," Manuel said. "Be more consistent with everything: how the ball is coming out of my hands, my enunciation in the huddle, all those types of things."

Some players in the Bills' locker room were surprised by the switch at quarterback this week, but rookie receiver Sammy Watkins said Wednesday that Orton was already impressing with his command of the huddle and a quick release.

Manuel said Orton has been supportive of him this week.

"I think it's about the team. The team is bigger than I am," Manuel said. "Whatever [Marrone] feels is best to help this team, we'll go with it."
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What else would you expect from a guy who is trying to secure the backup position? He is a crappy quarterback not a bad person. Nothing to see here.
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I actually think EJ is a great guy, good head on his shoulders and has natural leadership abilities. Great physical attributes too, tall, strong, athletic.

He's just bad at throwing footballs.

 
georg013 said:
OC Zed said:
This story is from yesterday, but is exactly what you'd want to hear from Manuel at this point.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11629515/ej-manuel-buffalo-bills-says-wants-different-player

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. -- After being benched Monday in favor of Kyle Orton, Buffalo Billsquarterback EJ Manuel made it clear Thursday how he wants to play if he gets another chance to start.

"When I am out there, I want to be a different player," Manuel said. "I just want to cut it loose, man, not hold myself back. Not to say I was, but I think at certain points in your career, in your manhood, you just open up and let it rip.

Of recent quarterbacks selected in the first round who have been benched, few have recovered to again become NFL starters. Manuel, who was selected 16th overall in 2013, wants to buck that trend."You don't worry about the repercussions. If something happens, at least you went down guns loaded, or guns blown, whatever. You just go out there and let it rip. That's what I've been practicing out there this week, against our defense, so just allowing myself to go out and make plays naturally."

"Maybe I can be the first," Manuel said. "Who knows."

Manuel didn't divulge specifics from his conversation with coach Doug Marrone about why he was benched, but he identified some areas where he could improve from his play over the first 14 games of his career.

"When this happened, obviously I was upset and frustrated. But at the same time, be a man, be a pro. I kicked up my work ethic even more," Manuel said. "Be more consistent with everything: how the ball is coming out of my hands, my enunciation in the huddle, all those types of things."

Some players in the Bills' locker room were surprised by the switch at quarterback this week, but rookie receiver Sammy Watkins said Wednesday that Orton was already impressing with his command of the huddle and a quick release.

Manuel said Orton has been supportive of him this week.

"I think it's about the team. The team is bigger than I am," Manuel said. "Whatever [Marrone] feels is best to help this team, we'll go with it."
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What else would you expect from a guy who is trying to secure the backup position? He is a crappy quarterback not a bad person. Nothing to see here.
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:shrug:

I think there is still a chance that he turns out as a pretty good QB somewhere down the road. This is exactly the mentality he needs to accomplish that... ie, just throw the ball without over-thinking it.

 
Flying Elvis said:
As to the post where you quoted EJ's response, the most glaring thing there is the sample size of 14 games. He's got lots of work to do but that's a very quick hook. Hopefully for EJ (and the team I have him :D ) this is a motivational tool for a kid that maybe hasn't had his head completely in it, and not an indictment of his ability to develop, improve, and "get it" at the pro level.
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Brees was given 24 games before was benched.

Through Brees' first two seasons starting (3rd year):

- 2nd to last in YPA (6.11) for QB's with over 400 attempts

- 28 TD/31 INT

- 10-17 record as a starter

The reason I'm leaving the door open for Manuel to develop is I saw first hand as a Chargers fan a guy I thought wasn't an NFL QB turn into a HOF'er.

 
Rotoworld:

Speaking Monday, GM Doug Whaley declined to endorse E.J. Manuel as the Bills' franchise quarterback.

"That's something we'll have to look at, something we'll have to go through with a fine-tooth comb," Whaley said. Whaley is committed to "exploring every option." We wouldn't have expected Whaley to throw his weight behind Manuel after he was benched for journeyman Kyle Orton, but it's notable nonetheless. With Orton "retiring" for the second time in as many years, Manuel is again atop the depth chart. Manuel is the favorite to be under center for Week 1, but with a roster ready to accomplish great things outside of quarterback, it's far from a given.

Source: Vic Carucci on Twitter

Dec 29 - 3:07 PM
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Rotoworld:

Bills GM Doug Whaley has spoken in "glowing terms" about E.J. Manuel during head-coaching interviews and wants the new coach to "make the progress in developing Manuel."

Whaley is placing the blame on Doug Marrone and the previous coaching staff for Manuel's less-than-stellar start to his career. Of course, Whaley has admitted to being a key figure in Buffalo's selection of Manuel at No. 16 overall in the 2013 draft. The Bills are without a first-round pick in the upcoming draft. After Kyle Orton's retirement, Buffalo may be stuck with Manuel as its starter.

Source: Buffalo News

Jan 7 - 9:21 AM
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Bills GM Doug Whaley has spoken in "glowing terms" about E.J. Manuel during head-coaching interviews and wants the new coach to "make the progress in developing Manuel."

Whaley is placing the blame on Doug Marrone and the previous coaching staff for Manuel's less-than-stellar start to his career. Of course, Whaley has admitted to being a key figure in Buffalo's selection of Manuel at No. 16 overall in the 2013 draft. The Bills are without a first-round pick in the upcoming draft. After Kyle Orton's retirement, Buffalo may be stuck with Manuel as its starter.

Source: Buffalo News

Jan 7 - 9:21 AM
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Sounds like whoever the Bills hire is going to be a Manuel believer.

 
Added him during the last waiver period, for minimum salary. I'm going to burn a league tag on him for 2015 to see if he can salvage his career with a new coach. If not, I'm out very little.

 
cstu said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Bills GM Doug Whaley has spoken in "glowing terms" about E.J. Manuel during head-coaching interviews and wants the new coach to "make the progress in developing Manuel."

Whaley is placing the blame on Doug Marrone and the previous coaching staff for Manuel's less-than-stellar start to his career. Of course, Whaley has admitted to being a key figure in Buffalo's selection of Manuel at No. 16 overall in the 2013 draft. The Bills are without a first-round pick in the upcoming draft. After Kyle Orton's retirement, Buffalo may be stuck with Manuel as its starter.

Source: Buffalo News

Jan 7 - 9:21 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Sounds like whoever the Bills hire is going to be a Manuel believer.
Click to expand...
Sounds like sour grapes from the GM.

 
cstu said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Bills GM Doug Whaley has spoken in "glowing terms" about E.J. Manuel during head-coaching interviews and wants the new coach to "make the progress in developing Manuel."

Whaley is placing the blame on Doug Marrone and the previous coaching staff for Manuel's less-than-stellar start to his career. Of course, Whaley has admitted to being a key figure in Buffalo's selection of Manuel at No. 16 overall in the 2013 draft. The Bills are without a first-round pick in the upcoming draft. After Kyle Orton's retirement, Buffalo may be stuck with Manuel as its starter.

Source: Buffalo News

Jan 7 - 9:21 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Sounds like whoever the Bills hire is going to be a Manuel believer.
Click to expand...
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.

 
lod01 said:
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
After two years in the league Drew Brees sucked at playing QB. As did Eli, Stafford, McNabb, Alex Smith, and Aikman.

He has maybe a 10% of being a good QB but he was drafted as a raw QB and should get more than 15 games to prove himself.

 
lod01 said:
cstu said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Bills GM Doug Whaley has spoken in "glowing terms" about E.J. Manuel during head-coaching interviews and wants the new coach to "make the progress in developing Manuel."

Whaley is placing the blame on Doug Marrone and the previous coaching staff for Manuel's less-than-stellar start to his career. Of course, Whaley has admitted to being a key figure in Buffalo's selection of Manuel at No. 16 overall in the 2013 draft. The Bills are without a first-round pick in the upcoming draft. After Kyle Orton's retirement, Buffalo may be stuck with Manuel as its starter.

Source: Buffalo News

Jan 7 - 9:21 AM
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Sounds like whoever the Bills hire is going to be a Manuel believer.
Click to expand...
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
Realistically, the Bills' hands are tied for next season. There is nothing near a slam dunk option in the draft (Todd McShay just called this the weakest QB draft he's seen in years) and no great veteran QBs to be available in free agency. This is true for every other team with a coaching vacancy aside from Atlanta (and maybe San Francisco if we're being generous)... so I don't think any coaching candidate will ding the Bills for wanting to roll with Manuel for one more year. After that, the coach will have a good case to go in a different direction at the position if Manuel doesn't pan out.

 
cstu said:
lod01 said:
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
After two years in the league Drew Brees sucked at playing QB. As did Eli, Stafford, McNabb, Alex Smith, and Aikman.

He has maybe a 10% of being a good QB but he was drafted as a raw QB and should get more than 15 games to prove himself.
Click to expand...
Did those guys all suck in college too?

I agree that he still has a slight chance to be good, but I'd put it even lower than 10%- these aren't minor things that he needs to improve on.

 
OC Zed said:
Realistically, the Bills' hands are tied for next season. There is nothing near a slam dunk option in the draft (Todd McShay just called this the weakest QB draft he's seen in years) and no great veteran QBs to be available in free agency. This is true for every other team with a coaching vacancy aside from Atlanta (and maybe San Francisco if we're being generous)... so I don't think any coaching candidate will ding the Bills for wanting to roll with Manuel for one more year. After that, the coach will have a good case to go in a different direction at the position if Manuel doesn't pan out.
Click to expand...
EJ's class was putrid and that was only 2013.

 
humpback said:
cstu said:
lod01 said:
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
After two years in the league Drew Brees sucked at playing QB. As did Eli, Stafford, McNabb, Alex Smith, and Aikman.

He has maybe a 10% of being a good QB but he was drafted as a raw QB and should get more than 15 games to prove himself.
Click to expand...
Did those guys all suck in college too?

I agree that he still has a slight chance to be good, but I'd put it even lower than 10%- these aren't minor things that he needs to improve on.
Click to expand...
Manuel had comparable numbers in college than Winston.

Stats for their last two years in college:

Manuel - 66.4%, 38 TD/18 INT, 8.8 YPA, 461 yards rushing

Winston - 66.3%, 63 TD/28 INT, 8.4 YPA, 275 yards rushing

Manuel had Rashad Green as a FR/SO and Benjamin as a FR, while Winston had Green as a JR/SR and Benjamin as a SO.

 
cstu said:
humpback said:
cstu said:
lod01 said:
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
After two years in the league Drew Brees sucked at playing QB. As did Eli, Stafford, McNabb, Alex Smith, and Aikman.

He has maybe a 10% of being a good QB but he was drafted as a raw QB and should get more than 15 games to prove himself.
Click to expand...
Did those guys all suck in college too?I agree that he still has a slight chance to be good, but I'd put it even lower than 10%- these aren't minor things that he needs to improve on.
Click to expand...
Manuel had comparable numbers in college than Winston.

Stats for their last two years in college:

Manuel - 66.4%, 38 TD/18 INT, 8.8 YPA, 461 yards rushing

Winston - 66.3%, 63 TD/28 INT, 8.4 YPA, 275 yards rushing

Manuel had Rashad Green as a FR/SO and Benjamin as a FR, while Winston had Green as a JR/SR and Benjamin as a SO.
Click to expand...
Those two have zero in common on the field other than they are tall and black and played QB for FSU.

You really have to stop looking at stats sometimes. Especially in this case. :no:

 
I still like Manuel, his college tape is fun to watch. He had a positive TD / INT ratio in 5 games played last year.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
cstu said:
lod01 said:
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
After two years in the league Drew Brees sucked at playing QB. As did Eli, Stafford, McNabb, Alex Smith, and Aikman.

He has maybe a 10% of being a good QB but he was drafted as a raw QB and should get more than 15 games to prove himself.
Click to expand...
I can pretty much watch a guy now and get a correct read after about 6 games. This guy blows. The rookies this year, fantasy wise, Bridgewater will be the best if he stays healthy. Bortles is just a guy. Slightly above Alex Smith, in fantasy value. Derek Carr is David Carr. Manziel won't cut it. Garrapolo still unknown.

 
cstu said:
humpback said:
cstu said:
lod01 said:
And a 2nd rate option. No good coach is going there with that mindset. The guy sucks at playing QB.
Click to expand...
After two years in the league Drew Brees sucked at playing QB. As did Eli, Stafford, McNabb, Alex Smith, and Aikman.

He has maybe a 10% of being a good QB but he was drafted as a raw QB and should get more than 15 games to prove himself.
Click to expand...
Did those guys all suck in college too?

I agree that he still has a slight chance to be good, but I'd put it even lower than 10%- these aren't minor things that he needs to improve on.
Click to expand...
Manuel had comparable numbers in college than Winston.

Stats for their last two years in college:

Manuel - 66.4%, 38 TD/18 INT, 8.8 YPA, 461 yards rushing

Winston - 66.3%, 63 TD/28 INT, 8.4 YPA, 275 yards rushing

Manuel had Rashad Green as a FR/SO and Benjamin as a FR, while Winston had Green as a JR/SR and Benjamin as a SO.
Click to expand...
What does that have to do with the guys we were comparing him to?

Forget the stats, my point was that EJ Manuel had massive fundamental flaws in his game in college (most of which he still has) that those other guys didn't.

 
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