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4 hours ago, Courtjester said:

Vance Joseph all year.....:wall:

I got so angry when the Broncos, down 17 in the 4th, decided to go for it on 4th down instead of kicking the field goal.  Are coaches just idiots?  I dont get it.  Yes you want the touchdown, but if you dont score the game is over.  Logic says - kick the field goal, cut the lead to 2 scores and move forward.  YOU WERE GOING TO NEED 3 SCORES ANYWAY!  

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2 minutes ago, CaptainJT said:

I got so angry when the Broncos, down 17 in the 4th, decided to go for it on 4th down instead of kicking the field goal.  Are coaches just idiots?  I dont get it.  Yes you want the touchdown, but if you dont score the game is over.  Logic says - kick the field goal, cut the lead to 2 scores and move forward.  YOU WERE GOING TO NEED 3 SCORES ANYWAY!  

if you get the TD you can get a 2 point conversion this time and a 3 point conversion next TD. 

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2 hours ago, CaptainJT said:

I got so angry when the Broncos, down 17 in the 4th, decided to go for it on 4th down instead of kicking the field goal.  Are coaches just idiots?  I dont get it.  Yes you want the touchdown, but if you dont score the game is over.  Logic says - kick the field goal, cut the lead to 2 scores and move forward.  YOU WERE GOING TO NEED 3 SCORES ANYWAY!  

Nope. You've got it exactly backward. The "obviously stupid" move would have been to "take the points" in order to "stay in the game" and "live to fight another day". 

The Broncos had just driven 69 yards to the Jets 6 and had a fourth and three. Yes, they needed three scores, but what they especially needed was TDs. A drive where you're inside your opponent's 10 is about as good an opportunity as you'll get to score one of those TDs. Joseph is a terrible coach, but he was absolutely right to take advantage of that opportunity.

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Gruden duplicating Pete Carroll's stupidity at the 1 yard line by throwing the ball instead of handing off to Marshawn Lynch. He's such a moron.

“I done seen it happen to me on the game’s biggest stage,” Lynch said.   “Now it’s happened in a regular season game. It’s all right, though.”  Since Super Bowl XLIX with the Seahawks, his teams have thrown four times from the 1 while he was on the field. On those four snaps, the quarterbacks are 0-of-4 with a pair of interceptions (Carr and Russell Wilson‘s Super Bowl-deciding one). It was also Carr’s third interception into the end zone this season.  When Gutierrez read that stat to Lynch, he replied: “That’s cute. That’s cute.”

:lmao:

 

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3 minutes ago, Hot Diggity Dog said:

if you get the TD you can get a 2 point conversion this time and a 3 point conversion next TD. 

I would not be surprised if this was Vance Joseph's strategy...

 

1 hour ago, zftcg said:

Nope. You've got it exactly backward. The "obviously stupid" move would have been to "take the points" in order to "stay in the game" and "live to fight another day". 

The Broncos had just driven 69 yards to the Jets 6 and had a fourth and three. Yes, they needed three scores, but what they especially needed was TDs. A drive where you're inside your opponent's 10 is about as good an opportunity as you'll get to score one of those TDs. Joseph is a terrible coach, but he was absolutely right to take advantage of that opportunity.

By "take advantage" you mean get nothing and give the ball over still down 3 scores... instead of down 2 scores and still in the game.

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11 hours ago, zftcg said:

So much to choose from in that Cowboys-Texans game, but let's go with Garrett punting on 4th and 1 in OT.

Both challenges in that game were absolutely moronic.

Bill O’Brian’s challenge in that game consisted of him challenging the spot of a Zeke run on first down inside the ten yard line that moved the ball 2 yards back. 

Garrett challenged a ruling of a recievers feet being in bounds, but that reciever didn’t even catch the call. LOL

Both of them made the eagles challenge of Diggs catch that he got 4 steps in bounds look smart.

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Garrett's decision to punt was really disappointing. With a team as explosive as the Texans, you hope not to give the ball back in OT.

The main reason, though, is when you have the kind of OL we have & a RB like Zeke, you don't deserve to win if you can't get a yard in a critical situation. I know Frederick is out, but Looney has been playing pretty well.

The Clapper, LOL.

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17 minutes ago, CaptainJT said:

I would not be surprised if this was Vance Joseph's strategy...

 

By "take advantage" you mean get nothing and give the ball over still down 3 scores... instead of down 2 scores and still in the game.

Bad results <> bad process.

Honestly, I'm too lazy to look up the math right now, but this entire topic is like 27 pages of people explaining why coaches are way too conservative in situations exactly like this. 

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3 hours ago, zftcg said:

Nope. You've got it exactly backward. The "obviously stupid" move would have been to "take the points" in order to "stay in the game" and "live to fight another day". 

The Broncos had just driven 69 yards to the Jets 6 and had a fourth and three. Yes, they needed three scores, but what they especially needed was TDs. A drive where you're inside your opponent's 10 is about as good an opportunity as you'll get to score one of those TDs. Joseph is a terrible coach, but he was absolutely right to take advantage of that opportunity.

If this was the situation and it was 4th and 3 at the 6, I completely agree that you have to go for the TD there.  

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1 hour ago, VikingFrog said:

Both challenges in that game were absolutely moronic.

Bill O’Brian’s challenge in that game consisted of him challenging the spot of a Zeke run on first down inside the ten yard line that moved the ball 2 yards back. 

That was my initial reaction, too, but it did take away a first down, and if the guys up in the booth felt confident they would win the challenge (which they did), I can see the logic.

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16 hours ago, Nucker101 said:

The Seahawks neutering Wilson’s running ability is insane to me. Especially now that they have a good run game going, they could have a really good offense if they opened things up

Wilson is playing through a hamstring injury. I'm not a fan of OC Brian Schottenheimer, especially not paired with Wilson, but I think Wilson himself is limiting his running due to the injury.

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5 minutes ago, hagmania said:

Pederson made the right call vs the Vikes Sunday.

Yes, meant to post that. Pederson may single-handedly force us to retire this entire thread (although I'm sure Hugh Jackson will immediately force us to re-open it).

Also, apparently he was asked about it after the game and said something to the effect of, "Duh! Of course you go for two there." 

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9 hours ago, hagmania said:

Pederson made the right call vs the Vikes Sunday.

You quoted a pretty old post of mine that wasn’t in reference to the Vikings game.  I actually posted in this thread that Pederson made the right call to go for 2 against the Vikes

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14 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

You quoted a pretty old post of mine that wasn’t in reference to the Vikings game.  I actually posted in this thread that Pederson made the right call to go for 2 against the Vikes

He quoted a post of yours where you said you didn't see any coach going for two in a situation where they score to make it an eight point game. That was exactly the scenario where Pederson went for two vs the Vikings.

I didn't read it as criticism, just pointing out that a prediction you made turned out to be wrong. But I was as shocked as anyone to see Pederson do that. It was only the second time this century that a coach had gone for two there.

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On 10/8/2018 at 10:07 AM, Courtjester said:

Vance Joseph all year.....:wall:

He is the worst. 

I get that going east and playing the early game is often tough for teams out west, but there was no excuse for getting beat down like that by what-is-likely a 5-6 win Jets team.  Then again, looking at the schedule, the Broncos will be lucky to get to 5. 

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7 minutes ago, zftcg said:

He quoted a post of yours where you said you didn't see any coach going for two in a situation where they score to make it an eight point game. That was exactly the scenario where Pederson went for two vs the Vikings.

I didn't read it as criticism, just pointing out that a prediction you made turned out to be wrong. But I was as shocked as anyone to see Pederson do that. It was only the second time this century that a coach had gone for two there.

You're totally right.   :bag:   Going back to that post, I agree with the decision to go for 2 in that situation.  It's just that I didn't take any coach had the balls to do it.  I was wrong.  

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9 hours ago, zftcg said:

Yes, meant to post that. Pederson may single-handedly force us to retire this entire thread (although I'm sure Hugh Jackson will immediately force us to re-open it).

Also, apparently he was asked about it after the game and said something to the effect of, "Duh! Of course you go for two there." 

And you're totally right regarding his press game conference.  It was hilarious how he was actually shocked that the media would question him about a decision that in his mind was so obvious.  He's so far ahead right now.

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20 minutes ago, fred_1_15301 said:

You're totally right.   :bag:   Going back to that post, I agree with the decision to go for 2 in that situation.  It's just that I didn't take any coach had the balls to do it.  I was wrong.  

The important thing is that that process behind your prediction was good, even if the results weren't. :lmao:

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So tonight the Giants were getting blown out. There’s 2 mins left.

Giants had every starter out there except for Barkley - who was 1 receiving yard from being the 1st Giants RB to go 100/100 in a game. 

And he was the only one not on the field. :unsure:

and wait; there’s more. It’s two mins to go, the Eagles aren’t gonna stop the clock. 

They don’t kneel, they don’t throw deep - they inexplicably call a couple intermediate plays that have none chance.

What the holy hell were the Giants even doing there at the end? 

Just mind-bogglingly bad.   

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3 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So tonight the Giants were getting blown out. There’s 2 mins left.

Giants had every starter out there except for Barkley - who was 1 receiving yard from being the 1st Giants RB to go 100/100 in a game. 

And he was the only one not on the field. :unsure:

and wait; there’s more. It’s two mins to go, the Eagles aren’t gonna stop the clock. 

They don’t kneel, they don’t throw deep - they inexplicably call a couple intermediate plays that have none chance.

What the holy hell were the Giants even doing there at the end? 

Just mind-bogglingly bad.   

I was thinking he exact same thing re: Barkley.  Throw him a ### #### bone for crying out loud.  He was the only guy on the team who showed up.  Embarrassing game by the Giants tonight.  Truly pathetic.

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1 hour ago, Donnybrook said:

Pat Shurmur put Eli Manning behind center for the 5th straight game.  Just sayin.

I feel like Eli is getting blamed more than he should. Which is largely the deal when you're qb, I guess. He's bad, but I don't think he's quite this bad. Where's the bad gm thread? They think about an offensive line? 

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3 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So tonight the Giants were getting blown out. There’s 2 mins left.

Giants had every starter out there except for Barkley - who was 1 receiving yard from being the 1st Giants RB to go 100/100 in a game

And he was the only one not on the field. :unsure:

and wait; there’s more. It’s two mins to go, the Eagles aren’t gonna stop the clock. 

They don’t kneel, they don’t throw deep - they inexplicably call a couple intermediate plays that have none chance.

What the holy hell were the Giants even doing there at the end? 

Just mind-bogglingly bad.   

Reminds me of the 85 Bears SB against the Pats and Ditka didn't let Payton try to punch one in for a TD. Meant the world to Sweetness, too, but coaches aren't always clued in to these milestones when they are in the gameflow.

That being said, arguably the dumbest thing a coach has done all year so far is Shurmur not going to Barkley on every single play of every single game.

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Giants had 1st and Goal tonight from the 5ish yard line. Saquon got the carry on 1st for a couple yards. Then the Giants proceeded to let Eli try and pass on 2nd and 3rd down from the 3 yard line. Unbelievable. 

If I have Saquon Barkley and get 4 plays from inside the 5 yard line, I'm handing it off three times in a row, and probably just handing it off on 4th down again if needed. 

Pat Shurmur is an idiot. 

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6 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

So tonight the Giants were getting blown out. There’s 2 mins left.

Giants had every starter out there except for Barkley - who was 1 receiving yard from being the 1st Giants RB to go 100/100 in a game. 

And he was the only one not on the field. :unsure:

and wait; there’s more. It’s two mins to go, the Eagles aren’t gonna stop the clock. 

They don’t kneel, they don’t throw deep - they inexplicably call a couple intermediate plays that have none chance.

What the holy hell were the Giants even doing there at the end? 

Just mind-bogglingly bad.   

Hey, you gotta protect your franchise players ... which is why they had OBJ returning punts with 1:30 left in the game :shrug:

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8 hours ago, davearm said:

To be fair, Pat Shurmer has his current job because the last guy *didn't* put Eli Manning behind center.

The fact that Eli got benched isn't what caused fans to freak out. It's because he got benched for Geno effing Smith who every fan had already seen be a disaster in town. 

That was the miscalculation by the front office. If they tried making the case of it being about seeing what they had in Webb for the future, it would have went over much differently.

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4 hours ago, MrSoup said:

Giants had 1st and Goal tonight from the 5ish yard line. Saquon got the carry on 1st for a couple yards. Then the Giants proceeded to let Eli try and pass on 2nd and 3rd down from the 3 yard line. Unbelievable. 

If I have Saquon Barkley and get 4 plays from inside the 5 yard line, I'm handing it off three times in a row, and probably just handing it off on 4th down again if needed. 

Pat Shurmur is an idiot. 

To be fair, a 3-yard pass is about all Eli is capable of throwing these days. :loco:

But yeah, that was a laugher. Barkley only got 13 handoffs last night. Why wasn't it 30?

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Irrelevant said:

To be fair, a 3-yard pass is about all Eli is capable of throwing these days. :loco:

But yeah, that was a laugher. Barkley only got 13 handoffs last night. Why wasn't it 30?

Because he was going 50 yards with them and the field is only 100 yards long.

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Just now, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Exactly - I was thinking that too last night. 

It occured to me that it might be a punishment. 

I actually think the Saquon thing is defensible. Maybe he doesn't care about that milestone. Maybe his back was acting up a little. Or maybe Shurmur doesn't want to have his franchise back blow out a knee in pure garbage time.

But the OBJ thing is puzzling. I know the Steelers do it with Brown and the Chiefs with Hill, but they're both among the best return men in the game. Is OBJ that good? I've never seen it.

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2 minutes ago, zftcg said:

I actually think the Saquon thing is defensible. Maybe he doesn't care about that milestone. Maybe his back was acting up a little. Or maybe Shurmur doesn't want to have his franchise back blow out a knee in pure garbage time.

But the OBJ thing is puzzling. I know the Steelers do it with Brown and the Chiefs with Hill, but they're both among the best return men in the game. Is OBJ that good? I've never seen it.

Why would Shurmur know or care about some obscure and totally meaningless stat like his RB's receiving yards?

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23 minutes ago, zftcg said:

I actually think the Saquon thing is defensible. Maybe he doesn't care about that milestone. Maybe his back was acting up a little. Or maybe Shurmur doesn't want to have his franchise back blow out a knee in pure garbage time.

But the OBJ thing is puzzling. I know the Steelers do it with Brown and the Chiefs with Hill, but they're both among the best return men in the game. Is OBJ that good? I've never seen it.

Agreed. The Eagles used to put Desean back every once in a while for punt returns, but Desean was actually a great punt returner. See 2010 Eagles/Giants game in the Meadowlands

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39 minutes ago, zftcg said:

I actually think the Saquon thing is defensible. Maybe he doesn't care about that milestone. Maybe his back was acting up a little. Or maybe Shurmur doesn't want to have his franchise back blow out a knee in pure garbage time.

But the OBJ thing is puzzling. I know the Steelers do it with Brown and the Chiefs with Hill, but they're both among the best return men in the game. Is OBJ that good? I've never seen it.

Because you’re at home, and your team is getting it’s butt royally kicked in a prime time game, and it would give the fanbase something to be excited about. 

Little things like that are important. They easily could have thrown a short pass to Barkley & given the team & fans a milestone that’s never been achieved in franchise history. 

It would have been a positive note to end the game on instead of the horrible, terrible foul taste in everyone's mouth from owner to season ticket holder to television audience at home. 

And regardless, my main point about coaching stupidity was if they’re not going to bother going deep or trying to score, why not just take a knee & end the game? 

Instead they ran a few embarrassingly inept plays & prolonged the inevitable seemingly without purpose. 

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Chicago-Miami. The moment each team gets to the edge of field goal range in overtime, they get super-conservative.

Chicago was content to run it up the middle on 3rd-and-4, and it cost them.

Miami was content to run out the clock and spike it on 3rd down, but their kicker ended up making the kick.

 

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