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Agreed, his in laws probably just couldn't afford Cobra, or a PCIP plan.. I'd wager they couldn't afford Obamacare either if that was the case..
Tell me again how two adults, one of whom is physically disabled, and the other of which has leukemia (both who had to stop working for health reasons...so they were no longer employed by anybody) are going to afford COBRA or a PEC plan?
You seemed to be confused about this. I'm not sure if you know this, but at one time Insurance companies wouldn't give insurance to individuals who had pre-existing conditions. These people wanted to buy policies. In some cases,The medical insurance companies would not insure them, or would drop them. Diminishing profits are A prority over human beings.. These people cannot get policies and they have families who need coverage. Yeah, the nerve of these so-called sick people. Crazy isn't it?
If your in-laws couldn't afford insurance then, and had to rely on the government, they are, or would be in the same situation now...
Fixed that last post for you...as my wife and I don't get a dime in credits/vouchers. No government assistance in any way...other than giving us the ability to shop the exchange as of October 1.
I understand the feeling. Whether someone agrees or not can be debated and that's fine. If it's framed as we want these people to be covered so everyone is going to have to pay more, that's fair and that debate could be had. That wasn't exactly how this thing was billed. I'm no big fan of the hard right, but the fact that they were the ones banging the drums against the ACA hurt the fight in my opinion because most people tuned it out due to the messenger. It still amazes me when I read accounts of people seeing the premium increases and being shocked they are the ones having to pay for it. It can be paying more for the same coverage or being forced into a more comprehensive policy such as a woman being forced to pay for maternity coverage who can't have children. It's like people can't conceptualize this will cost more and someone has to pay the bill. It proves a significant segment of the public will believe anything if you wrap the sales job in a pretty enough package.
Yep. The uninsured and "the uninsurable" (in the past, major pre-existing issues) being added to various plans/pools is certainly going to increase costs for people in said plans/pools that didn't have to deal with them before. I just wonder if you factor in all the litigation costs, all the bankruptcy/foreclosure issues which arise at least in part due to medical expenses, all the folks who show up in an emergency room needing/wanting care who have no insurance currently (and no real way to pay for said care), how much more/less it will actually cost our society when it's all said and done. A rhetorical question...as I don't expect anyone to know (or the people who "know" will be spin-doctors using facts to claim truth). But the cost of health care goes far, far beyond the cost of health insurance in this country.
Best law ever!
It's true, being ignorant of that doesn't change reality.. You can save more coffee by being better informed or believing less of the liberal spin evidently.. My cousin is diabetic, and he had been on one of these plans since 2005. I don't remember the exact #'s, but he was paying nearly $600 a month for insurance and his new plan will be approximately $50 less a month. (While my plan doubled)
I wanted to clear up a few misconceptions here of Ballstein. First I'll address the second bolded part - it's simply not true. Some people did have their policies canceled, I can't deny that - but they were canceled because the person lied or knowingly mislead the carrier when completing their insurance application. I've seen it happen. If someone says on an application that they are perfectly healthy, or fails to mention something that they know is a medical condition/situation they have, and the insurance company finds out, it's quite literally insurance fraud, and the insurer can drop the policy.
So many people are ignorant of this... And typically these lies are the reasons most of those people give you supporting ACA..
While what you say is mostly true, this is not. You can't just sign up anytime. You can sign up during the open enrollment period or when you have a major life event.
very large company - self insured?
Actually, unfortunately, that is true. The "open enrollment" only applies to "on exchange" plans (the only plans eligible for a subsidy). Many carriers will still be selling "off exchange" plans year round (but you won't be eligible for a subsidy) no matter if you have a "qualifying event" (major life event) or not. People will still be able to purchase coverage when 8 months pregnant (or whatever example you want to use) off exchange whenever they want, without underwriting and with any pre-ex limitations.
If the policy just renewed (I assume for November 1, though possibly for December 1), it doesn't yet have to meet any mandates for the ACA as those mandates are only for renewals and new groups that occur on or after 1/1/14.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/11/01/smallbusiness/sex-workers-obamacare/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
I assume his company has just started open enrollment for CY14 coverage. But either way what mechanism for higher cost am I forgetting?
Datonn, I think you and I had a few messages back and forth earlier about your situation. Again, I'm very sorry about your MIL and the situation that you went through, as I'm going through that very same situation with my uncle, and it's not a pleasant one. Again, I don't mean for anything I write to come off as insensitive, but there is really no other way to put certain things....
You make is sound oh so simple. Everyone just has a grand sitting around every month to pay for a relative's COBRA.
I never said it was simple or easy, it's the way things are. What's easier, paying a grand a month for COBRA, or paying tens or hundreds of thousands in medical bills?
If we're going to bring "moral obligations" into the discussion (which is a good thing, I think), then I think we need to broaden the discussion to talk about other moral obligations as well. I personally cannot believe how millionaires and billionaires are *ever* able to file for bankruptcy. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: when folks like Donald Trump can file for bankruptcy, or when folks like Dave Ramsey can file for bankruptcy, then re-build their financial lives to the point of having millions/billions in the bank, they should still be required to pay back whatever they had owed pre-bankruptcy, as much as they can. And then after they die? The people they STILL owed money to should get first-dibs on anything and everything from their estate. Without them being able to "gift" money to their spouse, kids, ??? before their death. Bankruptcy is legalized stealing in our nation. Taking something from someone else, then not paying for it (or forcing the millions of other people buying the same goods or services to pick up your tab). And while many people legitimately need it to keep from winding up homeless under a bridge, abuse of that system is rampant. And nobody who has ever declared bankruptcy should *EVER* be living a life of luxury again...not until all of their debtors have been satisfied. Let 'em keep "a" home, and let them have "a" vehicle. But if they die and they still owed other people money? Let the proceeds of said home/vehicle go to the people they still owed money to. Long before any heirs see a dime.
Trump never filed for bankruptcy. His businesses, have, but he himself hasn't (though he did come close because he was funneling his own money into a company that was going bankrupt.) And in terms of the Trump business bankruptcies, there are many different types of bankruptcy (chapters if you will) And the companies did emerge from bankruptcy.
So my business can file for bankruptcy, but I'm off the hook for it personally?
Your business can do almost anything and you'd be off the hook for it personally. Limited liability is not a novel or controversial concept. In fact it's pretty much mandatory for a functioning economy, especially new/small businesses. Nobody's starting a business if there's a chance they and their family will be in poverty for decades to come if it fails.So my business can file for bankruptcy, but I'm off the hook for it personally?
Got it. I GTG...gonna quick take a 2-3 year trip around the world and spend like it's 1999...then come home and start a new business, since my old one will be a pile of smoldering embers. Thanks for the advice, and don't miss me too much while I'm gone!
You don't know much about business do you?So my business can file for bankruptcy, but I'm off the hook for it personally?
Got it. I GTG...gonna quick take a 2-3 year trip around the world and spend like it's 1999...then come home and start a new business, since my old one will be a pile of smoldering embers. Thanks for the advice, and don't miss me too much while I'm gone!
Six...wow...I picture something like Willy Wonka here...there were the six lucky people who booted up their computer and a message came on saying they won and they can now visit their Doctor...
When I saw the headline today that the actual number was "six", I said, "Well, at least it was within the margin of error."
Right!
When I saw the headline today that the actual number was "six", I said, "Well, at least it was within the margin of error."
I think you misread that. Of the 6 who signed up, they chose 5 insurance companies.
Oh. Yeah. Just reread it. So are we leaning "success" more now with that newly found knowledge?
I forgot about this group. Now we get to heavily subsidize those that are in all-cash industries.
I've mostly tried to stay out of this dumpster fire of a thread, but out of curiosity- what the hell are you talking about?
Scroll up a bit. There's a CNN article that states only 6 people signed up on the first day.
Ah. Thanks.
6 is 20% more success than 5. Seems like a 20% increase in success is a good thing.
in this thread.