-OZ-
Footballguy
I was just thinking of guys who had started at least a while, then their team gave up on them for whatever reason, then did well (moderately anyway).
Drew bledsoe
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QB Kirk Cousins, ATL (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter pizzatyme
- Start date
Drew bledsoe
ConnSKINS26
Footballguy
Palmer was a great, prototype prospect. You could argue he was Luck before Luck was. Then he started off hot. Then his career was derailed by injury (and he's never been the same) and a feud with the Bengals, then he floundered in Oakland while it was still a #### team to play for, until he finally wound up with the Cardinals. Kind of a unique career that doesn't really apply here. You could maybe invoke the Palmer comparison with RG3 if he somehow went from the Browns to a good organization and became good again in the future (not happening). But the parallels between him and Palmer at that point would be eery as hell.Arodin said:
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Sebowski
Footballguy
You IGNORED my entire point. Money chasing QBs always FAIL. He is showing his GREED here. That is not the sign of a LEADER. That is not the sign of a CHAMPION. Tom Brady took less money to help build CHAMPIONS. Cousins is hurting his TEAM and if leaves for the money to a new system he will FAIL. The Redskins MADE him. No one else wanted him. Every team passed on him in the draft MULTIPLE TIMES. He needs to show his appreciation and take a FAIR DEAL to stay and help resign DeSean and Garçon and keep building on what they have or he will FAIL getting rich.
-OZ-
Footballguy
Are you referring to last year or was an offer made this year?
Last year the skins made him an offer he wouldn't accept and he wanted more than they'd pay. Looks like the same dynamic is in effect now.
every team passing on him 5 years ago isn't relevant. (Funny that you mention Brady in the same paragraph as that point)
You are calling him a $ chasing QB but he is simply asked for compensation of a top 10 QB. They gambled and lost. They haven't budged from their 16 Mil and $24 mil in guarantees. That's a lowball offer. They are being cheap and it has burned them.Double
on the 'teams passing on him'. Tom Brady got passed by 5 times by every team. And before you hemmorage, I'm not comparing him to Brady. I'm just laughing at your stupid post. Every year teams miss on players both ways. They pick busts and miss on top players. EVERY YEAR.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This is a really weird and outlandish argument. Every QB chases the money. It's just that teams are typically (always) willing to pay it when someone plays as well as Cousins has. It's not like Matt Ryan was lining up to take a poor deal in Atlanta a few years ago. He had played pretty well so the team rewarded him with a $100+ million deal.
Sure, occasionally you'll have a veteran QB with career earnings well into the 9 figure range that takes slightly (slightly) less than they could have held out for, but no one in Cousins' position ever has.
There's a reason that every time a youngish QB who's playing well becomes a FA they become the highest paid QB in the league. Meanwhile the Skins are offering to make Cousins the 21st highest, behind guys like Ryan Tannehill and Andy Dalton. Ridiculous, and if they let him go with that being the best they offered then they deserve to languish in the cellar of that division for the next half decade, as they will.
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Sebowski
Footballguy
EXAXCTLY!!!! Brady got passed over and now he takes less money to stay with the TEAM that did take a chance on him AND build SUPER BOWLS RINGS! Rings that could NOT have happened if Brady CHASED THE MONEY instead of being a TEAM PLAYER in a TEAM sport. YOU just made MY point for ME!
Double
habsfan
Footballguy
Cousins is playing on a team whose every contract decision involving him screams "We don't believe in you" but he's supposed to respond with loyalty and leadership? Yeah okay.
Other QBs who have "not been greedy" and have quietly waited to get paid have generally played under the security of a strong vote of confidence from their team. Cousins has played for a team that has been waiting for his failure...
Other QBs who have "not been greedy" and have quietly waited to get paid have generally played under the security of a strong vote of confidence from their team. Cousins has played for a team that has been waiting for his failure...
squistion
Footballguy
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/02/28/report-kirk-cousins-would-accept-a-trade-only-to-the-49ers/
Report: Kirk Cousins would accept a trade only to the 49ers
Posted by Mike Florio on February 28, 2017, 7:16 AM EST
As Washington closes in on the deadline for deciding whether to apply the franchise tag for a second straight year to quarterback Kirk Cousins, the tag-and-trade option continues to percolate. If Washington goes that route, however, it won’t have many options.
John Keim of ESPN.com reports that Cousins would accept a trade only to the 49ers. It’s a match that flows clearly and obviously from the dot-connecting process sparked by former Washington offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan’s emergence as the presumed successor to Chip Kelly in San Francisco.
So why would Cousins be able to block a trade to any other team? While, in theory, any player under contract can be traded anywhere (absent a no-trade clause), no team is going to give Washington significant compensation for a one-year, $23.94 million deal that has no security for the new team beyond 2017. It therefore becomes critical for any trade talks to include contract negotiations, so that the team that acquires Cousins from Washington will have him under contract for multiple years.
The real question, as posed here last week, is whether Cousins would take less than $53 million fully guaranteed over the first two years as part of a long-term deal with the 49ers. That amount, which reflects the 2017 tag and a 20-percent transition-tag raid for 2018, is what he’s believed to want in Washington in order to do a long-term deal. It’s unknown whether he’d give the 49ers a new-hometown discount in order to facilitate a trade.
If Cousins won’t take less, would the 49ers plunk down that much plus send one or more draft picks to Washington to get a quarterback who will be able to run the Shanahan offense? It’s an issue that will be resolved, if anywhere, this week in Indianapolis as all teams gather there for the Scouting Combine
Report: Kirk Cousins would accept a trade only to the 49ers
Posted by Mike Florio on February 28, 2017, 7:16 AM EST
As Washington closes in on the deadline for deciding whether to apply the franchise tag for a second straight year to quarterback Kirk Cousins, the tag-and-trade option continues to percolate. If Washington goes that route, however, it won’t have many options.
John Keim of ESPN.com reports that Cousins would accept a trade only to the 49ers. It’s a match that flows clearly and obviously from the dot-connecting process sparked by former Washington offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan’s emergence as the presumed successor to Chip Kelly in San Francisco.
So why would Cousins be able to block a trade to any other team? While, in theory, any player under contract can be traded anywhere (absent a no-trade clause), no team is going to give Washington significant compensation for a one-year, $23.94 million deal that has no security for the new team beyond 2017. It therefore becomes critical for any trade talks to include contract negotiations, so that the team that acquires Cousins from Washington will have him under contract for multiple years.
The real question, as posed here last week, is whether Cousins would take less than $53 million fully guaranteed over the first two years as part of a long-term deal with the 49ers. That amount, which reflects the 2017 tag and a 20-percent transition-tag raid for 2018, is what he’s believed to want in Washington in order to do a long-term deal. It’s unknown whether he’d give the 49ers a new-hometown discount in order to facilitate a trade.
If Cousins won’t take less, would the 49ers plunk down that much plus send one or more draft picks to Washington to get a quarterback who will be able to run the Shanahan offense? It’s an issue that will be resolved, if anywhere, this week in Indianapolis as all teams gather there for the Scouting Combine
-OZ-
Footballguy
Thanks, that answers my question from earlier.
I think it's a mistake for him but if that's what he wants, cool.
squistion
Footballguy
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7486/kirk-cousins
Profootballtalk reports that the Redskins will have to be "blown away" to trade franchise player Kirk Cousins, and are seeking a haul similar to the one they surrendered for the No. 2 pick in 2012.
Mike Florio's report comes via a source "with knowledge of the dynamics." NFL Network's Ian Rapoport has reported the 'Skins will not be trading their quarterback, but all these leaks are transparently aimed at increasing their leverage with the desperate 49ers. The Redskins surrendered three first-rounders and a second to move up for Robert Griffin III in 2012. They won't be getting a haul like that from San Francisco. Feb 28 - 4:21 PM
Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com
Profootballtalk reports that the Redskins will have to be "blown away" to trade franchise player Kirk Cousins, and are seeking a haul similar to the one they surrendered for the No. 2 pick in 2012.
Mike Florio's report comes via a source "with knowledge of the dynamics." NFL Network's Ian Rapoport has reported the 'Skins will not be trading their quarterback, but all these leaks are transparently aimed at increasing their leverage with the desperate 49ers. The Redskins surrendered three first-rounders and a second to move up for Robert Griffin III in 2012. They won't be getting a haul like that from San Francisco. Feb 28 - 4:21 PM
Source: Profootballtalk on NBCSports.com
Sebowski
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
jackson and reed have missed a decent number of games - and garcon is not even close to being a good YAC receiver.
-OZ-
Footballguy
He has to be referring to crowder as the yac receiver but he's the slot receiver.
Maybe it's early but the term "big bodied yac possession receiver" doesn't seem to fit any of them (and is somewhat hard to find in the league)
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I disagree with most of this list (about 75%), but based on reports of what Garcon may earn this offseason, I could be wrong.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
As a Jets' fan even if they end up releasing Brandon Marshall, I'd prefer Decker and Enunwa (and their other young guys) to the Skins duo.
He has to be referring to crowder as the yac receiver but he's the slot receiver.
Maybe it's early but the term "big bodied yac possession receiver" doesn't seem to fit any of them (and is somewhat hard to find in the league)
Crowder was good at it but no I meant Garcon. He's had one bad year for YAC in the last 6, every other year he's been 330 yards or more and last year had 19th most YAC yards of any WR. He was #2 in the NFL in YAC in 2013 for WR's, and has finished 12th two other seasons and 22nd another year during this span. Has basically been 330+ and top 22 in YAC in NFL for WR's every season but once over last 6 seasons. I don't know how that fits as not close to being a good YAC receiver.
And yes I think he is built different than most WR's, thicker and more like a RB thus the bid body comment.
And yes Reed and DJAX have missed some time but that's standard on most teams. I firmly stand on my previous comments, the sum of the parts of the Redskins receiving group is greater than the whole and very good to elite. Due to the very different abilities of the receivers and TE's they are able to work the entire field and that 100% corresponds with what I see when I watch them, a team that does a great job of utilizing the entire field.
-OZ-
Footballguy
I'm not sure 2013 is highly relevant in 2017, but okay. He averaged 4.6 yards after catch last year, the same as Adam Thielen, Virgil Green and Seth DeValve (we could cherry pick comps to make him sound better but it's a weird stat) Admittedly I don't watch every Redskins game but Pierre never struck me as especially elusive. Solid to good #2, sure.
To your point though, yes. The skins group is a better group than the individuals. But a lot of that credit should go to the qb for managing the game and options well.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
The Garcon stuff was already addressed so I will just point out that you used these guys as reasons why Cousins has been so successful - so the fact that each has missed considerable time is relevant.
I did not say it was no relevant, just said it was typical if you have 4 receiving options on a team that you'll encounter some missed games among the group of 4. Injuries certainly limited Reed in some games last season but as a whole those 4 played in 59 out of 64 possible games so to me not a huge factor on the whole.
I just used 6 years as a look back since he got started getting relevant playing time but his YAC production as a whole has been a big part of his production, though for sure it has tailed off the last few seasons. I'd say using a some players how got very low targets, like Green and DeValve, is cherry picking but you right his average is not outstanding but point remains that his YAC prdocution as a whole has been on average top 20 in the NFL the past few seasons. When he's been productive it's been a big part of his game.
I also don't think he's elusive or indicated as such and he barely qualifies as a solid #2 to me. Put another way if he was my #2 I'd be looking to upgrade. I think he's the worst of the 4 receiving options of the main 4 that were on the team, but as 4th options go I think he's good and adds value to the receiving corp.
Not trying to beat a dead horse here. When I watched the Skins last season I thought they did a great job of utilizing the strengths of their receivers which all have unique skill sets and this enabled them to use the entire field. You watch some teams and the field almost looks congested, that was just the opposite of what I saw with the Skins last season. Cousins took advantage of it to be sure, and if you or anyone wants to give him credit for the using the entire field and his weapons I am not here to argue that, I just think when people categorize the Redkins WR's are average or sub-average they got it wrong.
DallasDMac
Footballguy
People that do this are simply trying to create a narrative to fit their point. It's pretty silly.
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
DC radio blowing up with a rumored three-way deal:
Cousins to 49ers
Pick to Dallas
Pick(s) + Romo to 'Skins
Cousins to 49ers
Pick to Dallas
Pick(s) + Romo to 'Skins
Fun rumor but Dallas has flatly denied it and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone associated with the team or a beat writer even who thinks he would deal Romo to the Redskins.
But not to turn this into a Romo thread, this is why I continue to not by the reports that say he's just going to be cut, he's a trade able commodity.
Saw that too. Seems kind of far fetched, but would be really interesting if it ended up happening.
CabinFever
Footballguy
What pick to Dallas? Romo shouldn't fetch more than a very late pick right?? Like 7th?
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
Cmon guys. no way this trade happens.
SF's pick I would guess goes to DAL and DAL pick goes to WASH plus Romo or even more picks to WASH.
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CabinFever
Footballguy
No way would Dallas get the 1.2 for giving up an old Backup QB with the most brittle ovaries in the league...
CabinFever
Footballguy
1.2 by itself isn't enough for Cousins and Romo doesn't bridge that gap either
They would have to send their 1st, Romo plus other picks to WASH. Remember, this is Jerry Jones and he does crazy ####. He would want the DL guy. Some say Allen is better than Garrett. Just guessing here. Would be interesting.
CabinFever
Footballguy
Skins should only do this deal if they get an RG3 ransom of picks. Because giving up Garrett or Allen to their division rival doesn't seem very smart.
Pretty sure they are going to demand 'ridiculous'. They have no bargaining power but they are totally insane so they probably think holding Cousins puts them in the drivers seat.
fatness
Footballguy
If you guys read my 1st post, you see that DAL ships out its 1st to WASH along with Romo and other picks. WASH ships Cousins and picks to SF. SF ships #2 to DAL.I have to admit I
You guys made up 'trade Romo and get the #2 overall'. My scenarios sends everyone's 1st to another team along with other picks to equal everything out.
It is Jerry and they are better than the Skins. Also factor in Romo will probably get hurt and it may be a good idea.
CabinFever
Footballguy
You'd think after the McNabb debacle the Redskins would learn their lesson from getting over the hill QBs from division rivals. I mean I like Tony Romo as a person, seems like a good guy, but unless you can sign him to a cheap contract and don't have to give up a pick, why would you take the risk?? I'd like to see Cousins signed to a long term deal, but if they move him they better be getting a plethora of picks in return. And yes Elguapo approves this message. 
