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QB Kirk Cousins, ATL (2 Viewers)

Phantom Knight said:
  • Jags: I agree.  And they certainly have a decent wr corp and now rb.  
  • Giants: especially if they can find a legit rb and firm up the Oline a little bit (that is a current issue, right?)
  • Cards: Perhaps, though pretty much have to assume Fitz will not be there and the rest of the wr corp is shaky.
  • Bills: Perhaps, though what's that look like without McCoy?
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How is no one talking about Denver?  He's going to Denver.

 
Tommy Collins said:
He's made money, but has had no long-term security, which is very important to these guys.
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True, but how much long-term security does anyone have these days, even QBs? The announced length of these long-term deals is meaningless; the only thing that matters is, "How many years before cutting me no longer destroys their cap?"

In fact, given the (effectively two-year) deals other mid-tier QBs have gotten in recent years (Dalton, Kaep), if Washington had locked him up after his breakout 2015 season, he probably would have made less over the past two years without any corresponding increase in job security. 

But yeah, if he Bridgewaters his knee in next week's game, he'll basically have nothing going forward, which I'm sure weighs on him.

Honestly, I hope he gets paid. As a Washington fan, I hope they're the ones who pay him, but I will completely understand if he's through with them. It's a tough business all around.

 
zftcg said:
I mean, the irony is that all of Washington's dithering over the past couple years has made him very wealthy. But I get the sense with a lot of these athletes the money is less important than feeling respected (and that's completely understandable; as much as we all think "I'd take a job eating poop for $20M a year," the fact is I'm sure all of us have passed up more lucrative opportunities to work somewhere we feel comfortable).

That's why I still think he leaves. I just have no idea where it will be.
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I'm kind of hoping Danny goes for the hat trick on that never used before CBA clause to franchise tag a third year at like 30+ MM. Just for the comedic value.

 
lod001 said:
:lmao:  Good one. He's made more in one year (twice now) than 95% of the workers in this country make in their life.
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We always hear stuff like this -- "What does it matter if a guy makes $90M or $100M? Either way, he's set for life" -- but I just don't think it works that way. First of all, it's a question of perspective. Keep in mind that there's a villager in some third-world country who would be dumbfounded to hear Americans who consider themselves underpaid in their $40K/year job. Similarly, these athletes are surrounded by other millionaires (and paid by billionaires), so it doesn't seem like as big a deal to them.

Second, I just don't think any of these players think, "With what I've already made, I'm set for life." I think the attitude is more, "I have this temporary gift where I'm among the top 0.01% of athletes on the planet. I need to take advantage of that window to earn every penny I possibly can, especially since it could be gone in an instant." That's why they all want to sign long-term deals.

 
zftcg said:
We always hear stuff like this -- "What does it matter if a guy makes $90M or $100M? Either way, he's set for life" -- but I just don't think it works that way. First of all, it's a question of perspective. Keep in mind that there's a villager in some third-world country who would be dumbfounded to hear Americans who consider themselves underpaid in their $40K/year job. Similarly, these athletes are surrounded by other millionaires (and paid by billionaires), so it doesn't seem like as big a deal to them.

Second, I just don't think any of these players think, "With what I've already made, I'm set for life." I think the attitude is more, "I have this temporary gift where I'm among the top 0.01% of athletes on the planet. I need to take advantage of that window to earn every penny I possibly can, especially since it could be gone in an instant." That's why they all want to sign long-term deals.
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Exactly.

 
The Redskins have nothing around him.  I've watched about 3 quarters of him this year.  That is seriously all you have to watch.  Cousins is the only piece holding the ship together.   If he had been drafted in Round 1, the city would be fawning over him.  But too many Griffin fans, including Snyder and Allen, still have a stick up their a$$.  Pryor?  Doctson?  an injured Reed?  Vernon Davis and Chris Thompson are his best receivers.  Now he has a beat up OL.  No real RB.   The Redskins brass tried to subvert the O talent level to make him and Jay look bad, and Gruden and Cousins are not letting that happen.

The Redskins will try to sign him long term for too little money again, and then tag him again.  Kirk has no reason to take any deal with this team.  Whether it's a franchise or transition tag is the question.  Transition saves them a ton of money, but with the franchise I do think they'd get something adequate in return - maybe a couple of 2nd rounders.  they simply can't eat $34m on Cousins while other positions suffer.

Several teams would look good with Cousins at the helm.  But they'd want to lock him up to a long-term deal before trading for him.  

- Pittsburgh is the #1 option that comes to mind.  Ben retires.  Cousins goes there for a couple of picks.  Cousins is happy to be on a good team even at say $27m/year.  It's the AFC so the Skins willing to send him there.  Cousins would be great in that offense, and Tomlin is the type of coach that can overlook Cousin's brain farts.  He gets a running game.  He gets WRs.  I suspect he'd perform better than Ben at this point in Ben's career.

 
Brunell4MVP said:
The Redskins have nothing around him.  I've watched about 3 quarters of him this year.  That is seriously all you have to watch.  Cousins is the only piece holding the ship together.   If he had been drafted in Round 1, the city would be fawning over him.  But too many Griffin fans, including Snyder and Allen, still have a stick up their a$$.  Pryor?  Doctson?  an injured Reed?  Vernon Davis and Chris Thompson are his best receivers.  Now he has a beat up OL.  No real RB.   The Redskins brass tried to subvert the O talent level to make him and Jay look bad, and Gruden and Cousins are not letting that happen.
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I'm a Washington fan who doesn't live in DC, so I can't speak to the general attitude toward him, but I was a big Griffin booster who finally came around on Cousins in 2015. I think it was understandable not to sign him to a long-term deal after that season, though I'm sure if they had it over again they probably would do it. What happened after 2016 was less defensible. Sure, the leverage had shifted to him, and maybe that meant his demands were unreasonable, but given the way they slammed him in the press (and the general lack of a benefit of doubt the team's management deserves), I feel like it's on them for not getting him signed.

So yeah, at this point they're probably screwed. They're going to lose him and not have much else left on the roster.

 
Observation ...  Even when Kirk Cousins plays poorly and makes at least one bonehead pass, he's the best player on the Redskins offense.

 
i have really come around on cousins.  hes turned into a great qb. as an eagles fan i really hope he leaves the skins after this season

 
This was a great game against a terrific pass defense. I think the first sneak TD was luck as he bobbled the snap and Perine looked to be expecting the toss. Whatever, I'll take it!

 
need2know said:
Redskins are crazy if they let cousins walk
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"Cousins is completing just 44 percent of his passes inside the 20 and 35 percent inside the 10. Rarely is he among the top quarterbacks for touchdowns. They want more plays in the red area and in crunch time. For the money they'd pay him, they could decide they want more."

 
DallasDMac said:
"Cousins is completing just 44 percent of his passes inside the 20 and 35 percent inside the 10. Rarely is he among the top quarterbacks for touchdowns. They want more plays in the red area and in crunch time. For the money they'd pay him, they could decide they want more."
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Then get him some real WRs. 

 
JuniorNB said:
How often was his best red zone target (Reed) available to him?
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12 of 16 games. Plus two 1,000 yard receivers. I guess if y'all want to make excuses for his consistently poor redzone performance, there's no point in going back and forth. There were a whole lot of QBs with nowhere near the quality receiving corp Cousins had ahead of him on that list.

 
DallasDMac said:
12 of 16 games. Plus two 1,000 yard receivers. I guess if y'all want to make excuses for his consistently poor redzone performance, there's no point in going back and forth. There were a whole lot of QBs with nowhere near the quality receiving corp Cousins had ahead of him on that list.
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Cousins is what he is. He's not Brady, Rodgers, ot Brees. He's blue collar. A hard worker who will sell out and run for the first down even knowing he's going to get drilled. Good, but not grest, passer.  In a division that's going to have Wentz and Prescott for the next dozen years, Washington would be foolish to let this guy go.  Hes better than guys like Winston or Mariotta, and those teams think they have their franchise qb. 

 
JuniorNB said:
Cousins is what he is. He's not Brady, Rodgers, ot Brees. He's blue collar. A hard worker who will sell out and run for the first down even knowing he's going to get drilled. Good, but not grest, passer.  In a division that's going to have Wentz and Prescott for the next dozen years, Washington would be foolish to let this guy go.  Hes better than guys like Winston or Mariotta, and those teams think they have their franchise qb. 
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Agree. The right scheme and a solid defense would produce a contender 

 
He's not the most talented QB, but I love the guy. He's got a lot of guts and has become a very good passer.  He's done great with that crappy o-line and not having much for weapons.

 
MikeApf said:
Redskins homer that watches every game. My observations:  his stats, fantasy-wise, appear to be pretty good.  You can trot him out there many weeks and pick up some good points. 

In terms of "real football," I'm less bullish on him being worth $25 million + for the Redskins moving forward.  While he's solid, he continues to have issues throwing under durress (as indicated above) and he doesn't always "create plays" when something goes wrong.  Maybe he's not a "game manager," but he's also not a world-beating franchise guy.  The issue with the Redskins continues to be:  "yes, he's good enough to win 9-10 games with, if everything goes right" BUT it's not clear that he's the guy that will win 9-10 games if everything DOESN'T go right and also he's not yet shown that he's the guy to take you deep into the playoffs.  Look at the INT late in the Philly game.  Under durress he took a TD that many would make and served up an INT...that's the same thing he did at end of season vs. Giants.  Ok, no one is perfect, but for 25 million per year, it's ok to expect more.  And look at Philly and Washington right now...getting that game would have been huge and season altering at this point.

So yes, some of the hesitation to signing him has clearly been Snyder and Allen's butt hurt over the Shanny years and of RGIII (Snyder's guy) not panning out.  But, beyond that, many of the Redskins faithful also see this with their own two eyes.  In retrospect, they clearly should have signed him for $20 million / year when they had the chance...he's CLEARLY worth that.  But, as even Scot M. has said, you have to balance out the entire salary cap issue with signing other players as well, making the decision more complex.  If he's the type of guy who will win only if you surround him with other guys (offense AND defense) who will need to be paid, you have to factor in the total cost of the equation.

San Francisco is in a bit different situation with tons of salary cap available, but ultimately, the same decision making equation is ultimately applicable.  If I'm San Fran, I'm thinking:  "do I sign a 30 year old vet for 25 million per year" or do I take my top 3 selection to get a top rookie who will be playing on rookie contract for 4 years.  Or, do I roll with Bethard, who looks like he has promise, who is younger and who is on a rookie contract.  If there is not much separation between Cousins and Bethard at season's end, it's not a no brainer to break the bank for Cousins.  All this talk is predicated on media saying "Shanahan knows Cousins" but that's a tenuous connection at best.  Prior to the season, same media said Rams were in play because McVay knew Cousins.  How about now?   They are winning with the young guy, so it would be insane to make the move.  And now Bethard has his chance to proove himself in San Francisco. 

I dunno.  I don't doubt someone will throw money at Cousins, but I'm not sure that the prognosticators have it right that Cousins definitely makes coin in San Fran.  It could be a team like the Jets who miss out on top QB prospects and who have no one in the pipeline who are the more obvious choice.

I am a Redskins fan who wanted the team to sign Cousins years ago to a favorable contract but now that the price tag has gone up, the level of expectation for his play has gone up. And FFL stats are not the same as "real football performance."  That's what we all have to keep in mind when looking at Cousins future.  Mind you, I'm not saying the guy stinks...he's solid enough.  But how much do you pay a "solid" guy and how much separation is there between one solid guy and another solid guy....
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they will look back in disdain the day they let him walk and go back to the cleveland browns' method of draft futility. Cousins is the Real Deal. hes actually a top 5 qb if you consider the lack of talent around him incl. no rb no wrs ( garcon last few yrs? cmon now). 

Reed always hurt bla bla bla. u let him go you will regret it for a decade or more. competent proven nfl qbs dont fall off the trees..look at Dak.good yr 1 really really bad yr 2..hes probably a backup qb at best..you dont want that kind of player. cousins has heart hes a tough sob with a chip on his shoulder from those who've doubted him..damn i wish my giants needed a qb ( they dont ..they need oline help and saquon barkley) ..but cousins in a jets uni will be sweet.or denver. or jax. 

 
At a simplistic level, you have to go through the exercise of naming the guys you'd rather have. There aren't that many and they're not available.

 
habsfan said:
At a simplistic level, you have to go through the exercise of naming the guys you'd rather have. There aren't that many and they're not available.
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That is simplistic. Because you have to take in to account what he is asking for. Do you want to lock him in for a reasonable and fair salary? Sure. If he wants top tier, Aaron Rodgers type money, then it becomes much harder to make that kind of commitment. Because he isn't the type of guy that is going to go out there, take a game on his shoulders and win it for you single-handedly like a Rodgers or a Brady. So do you want to pay him like those guys? That's what they have to decide.

 
DallasDMac said:
That is simplistic. Because you have to take in to account what he is asking for. Do you want to lock him in for a reasonable and fair salary? Sure. If he wants top tier, Aaron Rodgers type money, then it becomes much harder to make that kind of commitment. Because he isn't the type of guy that is going to go out there, take a game on his shoulders and win it for you single-handedly like a Rodgers or a Brady. So do you want to pay him like those guys? That's what they have to decide.
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If he wants Rodgers money then he can walk. That is just common sense. If Cousins thinks he is Rodgers...LOL

 
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habsfan said:
At a simplistic level, you have to go through the exercise of naming the guys you'd rather have. There aren't that many and they're not available.
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Good post. He’s shown a great deal of character and skill this year in a rough situation. I’d take Rodgers, Brady, Wilson, Wentz and Watson over him. After that it’s gets murky due to age, lack of character, injury, recession, etc 

 
There are less than 5 elite, superstar quarterbacks on the planet. After that, there are maybe 5 who are great, franchise quarterbacks. While Cousins is not in that first group, he has shown flashes that he could be in the second. The redskins would be crazy to allow this guy to run someone else's team for 7 or 8 years while they go the route of the Jets and Browns just hoping to get a decent one someday. Or like the Buccaneers, thinking they had one and then realizing that they don't and wasting three or four years.

 
Magic_Man said:
If he wants Rodgers money then he can walk. That is just common sense. If Cousins thinks he is Rodgers...LOL
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Yes, No

I don't think he believes he is Rodgers. But he made it fairly well known he was expecting to be paid pretty high end (top end) money.

 
DallasDMac said:
Yes, No

I don't think he believes he is Rodgers. But he made it fairly well known he was expecting to be paid pretty high end (top end) money.
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Rodgers money may also not mean he's as good as Rodgers or would/could get what Rodgers would receive next year if he was in Cousins' situation. Salaries climb over time and you constantly see player X get more than superior player Y is making.

You don't hand Cousins a blank cheque obviously but for me the critical part of this is Washington having a really honest, objective look at what they are. Is the window opening, closing or are they really not even sure? Based on that honest assessment, you decide what Cousins is worth. If they are legitimately going to contend over the span of his new contract, that's very different from overpaying him to play on a team that isn't what they thought it was...

 
Redskins have a terrible defense, awful WRs, a TE that is always hurt, bad running backs, and a very talented O line but it’s banged up.  Living in the DMV, I’ve heard people unfairly dog Cousins the last three years.  He puts up 30 points on the Saints and gets blamed for the loss.  Puts up 30 on the Vikings and gets blamed for the loss.  He’s the only bright spot, careful what you wish for.

 Skin fans act like it was Cousins that hurt RG III.  I hope he goes to another team and wins a super bowl.  It would also be great to see him go to the Giants (if Eli retires) and light his old team up twice a year.

 
How many games this year do the Redskins win without cousins?  No many.  And he almost beat the saints s, chiefs and eagles.  They let cousins walk they are instantly in the bottom 5 of the conference

 
DallasDMac said:
Yes, No

I don't think he believes he is Rodgers. But he made it fairly well known he was expecting to be paid pretty high end (top end) money.
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Because that's the market.  Stafford just got 27 million a year for five years with 92 mil guaranteed.  Cousins is the same age, and better. 

So you have to decide, do you want a chance to compete?  Or not.  Because that's the price to play these days.

ETA:  Worth noting that if the team franchises him again next year they'll have had him at 3 years for around $78 million -- i.e. 26 million a year and retained the option each year to let him go.  It's not bad business except that he's at an awkward age at the end of the three years (30) when you have to decide on a long-term deal or not.  And you've probably burned the bridge.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Because that's the market.  Stafford just got 27 million a year for five years with 92 mil guaranteed.  Cousins is the same age, and better. 

So you have to decide, do you want a chance to compete?  Or not.  Because that's the price to play these days.
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That's what is weird with the Redskins.  I can't tell what they are trying to do

 
Magic_Man said:
Sign Cousins, but not for stupid $ is all I am saying. The Redskins need a lot more than a QB to compete.
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Well he certainly isn't going to be the top paid quarterback in the league. But they're not going to sign him for Middle tier money either. Because there are many teams out there desperate for a quarterback who will pay him big bucks. He's a top 10 quarterback right now and you can ask teams like Cleveland and Buccaneers what happens when you try competing with a crappy quarterback. And considering the NFC East has two of the best young quarterbacks in the league who are going to be the Redskins competition for the next decade, they are going to have to Fork over a lot of money whether they like it or not. Unless they just decide to wait out the decade until Winton Prescott get old.

 
I think cousins can't wait to leave the Redskins.  Question is who will pay him.  You got to think Denver and Jax are thinking about it

 
What about if he wants Matt Stafford money? Is that OK? Because Stafford actually makes more than Rodgers at this moment. 

 
Reeeeeeally, really hoping he signs for CLE.

Will be hilarious seeing them go potentially winless, to 8-8 in one season, w just adding a QB.

As Ive said in the CLE thread... their DEF is good. real good. but burn out by the 3rd or so, cuz theyre on the field 90% of the time.

A competent QB like him throwing to coleman, gordon, njoku, duke, crow.... ya, they'll be alright.

I'll gladly pay "stupid money" for him

 
Soulfly3 said:
Reeeeeeally, really hoping he signs for CLE.

Will be hilarious seeing them go potentially winless, to 8-8 in one season, w just adding a QB.

As Ive said in the CLE thread... their DEF is good. real good. but burn out by the 3rd or so, cuz theyre on the field 90% of the time.

A competent QB like him throwing to coleman, gordon, njoku, duke, crow.... ya, they'll be alright.

I'll gladly pay "stupid money" for him
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Pretty solid OL, too. 

 
Soulfly3 said:
Reeeeeeally, really hoping he signs for CLE.

Will be hilarious seeing them go potentially winless, to 8-8 in one season, w just adding a QB.

As Ive said in the CLE thread... their DEF is good. real good. but burn out by the 3rd or so, cuz theyre on the field 90% of the time.

A competent QB like him throwing to coleman, gordon, njoku, duke, crow.... ya, they'll be alright.

I'll gladly pay "stupid money" for him
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Just adding a QB? Dude. Full season with Gordon next hear is worth 10 wins right there. 

 
dschuler said:
Redskins have a terrible defense, awful WRs, a TE that is always hurt, bad running backs, and a very talented O line but it’s banged up.  Living in the DMV, I’ve heard people unfairly dog Cousins the last three years.  He puts up 30 points on the Saints and gets blamed for the loss.  Puts up 30 on the Vikings and gets blamed for the loss.  He’s the only bright spot, careful what you wish for.

 Skin fans act like it was Cousins that hurt RG III.  I hope he goes to another team and wins a super bowl.  It would also be great to see him go to the Giants (if Eli retires) and light his old team up twice a year.
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Sure. That's why they can't throw a giant pice of the salary cap at a 30 year old QB. By the time the rest of the team gets built up Cousins will be on the decline. 

 
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