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QB Kirk Cousins, ATL (1 Viewer)

Kirk has said that he wants more than just money, that he wants to win so he wouldn't sign anything if he did not have a say on where he wants to play so the market of available teams would drop to wherever Kirk prefers to play. 
He would sign it just to call the Redskins bluff and force them to rescind the offer. The Redskins would have to keep the $29-34MM in cap space available which would make them miss out in free agency on other players. No team is going to give up anything for the right to pay Cousins $34MM for one season, they would want him to negotiate a long term deal which he'd refuse to do until the Skins gave him his freedom.

 
He would sign it just to call the Redskins bluff and force them to rescind the offer. The Redskins would have to keep the $29-34MM in cap space available which would make them miss out in free agency on other players. No team is going to give up anything for the right to pay Cousins $34MM for one season, they would want him to negotiate a long term deal which he'd refuse to do until the Skins gave him his freedom.
They can't rescind it.  Once he signs he's got the money, period.  Even if they cut him they still have to write him a $34M check, that stays on their cap, and Cousins gets to go sign the new deal of his choice.  Depending on how much someone wanted to front-load a contract Kirk could make $80M - $90M in 2018 alone!

 
They can't rescind it.  Once he signs he's got the money, period.  Even if they cut him they still have to write him a $34M check, that stays on their cap, and Cousins gets to go sign the new deal of his choice.  Depending on how much someone wanted to front-load a contract Kirk could make $80M - $90M in 2018 alone!
Thanks. I thought they could pull the franchise tag - that would make it an even dumber move by the Skins to offer it.

 
Thanks. I thought they could pull the franchise tag - that would make it an even dumber move by the Skins to offer it.
They can pull the tag any time before the deal that goes along with it is signed.  After it is signed, like Hankmoody said, Cousins is going to get that money from the Skins or another team they trade him to.  The only other possibility is that Cousins signs a different deal with either team (obviously not going to happen with the Skins).

I can't imagine the Skins will be dumb enough to do this AGAIN.

 
I can't imagine the Skins will be dumb enough to do this AGAIN.
I don't think they have any intention of doing it. I think floating the story that they might tag him is just vindictiveness from the front office, or something else equally as silly like "see, we're still in charge here if we want to be."

 
Snyder/Allen absolutely WOULD be dumb enough to do it again, if their ability to do dumb things wasn't compromised by the phenomenon exactly what @fatness is describing. They take 'dumb and dumberer' to an exponentially higher level, unless the egos get involved, driving the bus down an entirely different tangent of foolish, motivated by lack of self-awareness rather than lack of intellect.

If it wasn't so pathetic and annoying, it would actually be quite amusing.

Very difficult time to be a 'skins fan...

 
And meanwhile Kirk is playing this perfectly yet again. He said all week after the Smith trade report that he is still a Redskin and not yet a free agent. This is what he's been talking about. He's keeping his cards close to the chest while the Skins are showing them to anyone who wants a peak. They're basically holding them face side out at the poker table and bragging about how great their pair of 8s is. 

 
Bracie Smathers said:
Kirk has said that he wants more than just money, that he wants to win so he wouldn't sign anything if he did not have a say on where he wants to play so the market of available teams would drop to wherever Kirk prefers to play. 
34 mil for one year would convince someone they might wait another year to 'win'.

He's also allowed to win in WAS. 

I am not sure people understand what a crazy number 34 mill is, and he can be unrestricted next year, no franchise year possible. 

If the Skins are willing to pay 34 mill for one year, and he gets free agency next year, that would be a very wise business decision. 

By the way, Kirk has signed and played under the tag for two years, for a lot less money. I assume he wanted to win the last two years as well. We already KNOW Cousins isn't scared of the franchise tag. 

 
As a 'skins fan who loves the Team, but hates the Ownership/Mgmt, my preferred outcome for Kirk would be if the Giants decided to pull the plug on Eli, and opt for Cousins to helm them for the foreeeable future. While the two bufoons remain running the show, I like Cousins more than them, and I'd gleefully watch him torch my Team 2x/year as comeuppance for their mismanagement of this situation among many.

 
34 mil for one year would convince someone they might wait another year to 'win'.

He's also allowed to win in WAS. 

I am not sure people understand what a crazy number 34 mill is, and he can be unrestricted next year, no franchise year possible. 

If the Skins are willing to pay 34 mill for one year, and he gets free agency next year, that would be a very wise business decision. 

By the way, Kirk has signed and played under the tag for two years, for a lot less money. I assume he wanted to win the last two years as well. We already KNOW Cousins isn't scared of the franchise tag. 
I agree that $34.5 million is a crazy number but that works against tagging him.

Washington has guaranteed Alex Smith $71 million on a 5-year $94 million contract.

https://advancedsportslogic.com/nfl/1512-redskins-blow-71-million-on-aging-alex-smith

The Washington Redskins just dropped $94 million with $71 million guaranteed on former Chiefs quarterback Alex Smith
Washington would be on the hook for an additional $34.5 million for a total of $105.5 million guaranteed money that would count against their cap over the next five years.

They don't have to take that gamble when they stand to get a compensatory 3rd without adding $34.5 million to 'try and get' more draft capital.  The law of diminishing returns kick in before it would make sense.

It seems unlikely that they would take that gamble IMHO.  

 
Maybe they shoulda tried this BEFORE announcing a trade for Smith.  

Now???  Yeah, not gonna trade him.  Silly.

They woulda had a hell of a time trading him even before announcing the Smith trade.  

 
There is no incentive for Cousins to go along with this. Even if he agrees to the team the Redskins want to trade him to, the new team has to give up resources to get him. If he signs in free agency, the team he is going to gets to keep those resources. 

 
Kirk's asking price just went up.

-----------------------------------------

Mike Garafolo‏Verified account @MikeGarafolo 58m58 minutes ago

The 49ers and QB Jimmy Garoppolo have agreed to a five-year, $137.5 million contract, source says. The biggest deal in NFL history on a average-per-year basis.

 
What kind of contract did Matt Cassel command after going 11-5 for the Pats in '08? (26-40 since)

:popcorn:

 
What kind of contract did Matt Cassel command after going 11-5 for the Pats in '08? (26-40 since)

:popcorn:
Jul 2009 - 6 year $63 million contract 

Also in 2009 by Cutler - 5 year $50.37 million contract with Chicago (CHI)

Matt Schaub in 2007 after being traded to Houston - 6 year $48 million contract

To compare to a "franchise" QB, Peyton Manning in 2011 - Signed a 5 year $90 million contract with Indianapolis (IND)

Big Ben in 2008 - Signed an 6 year $87.9 million extension with Pittsburgh 

So, not really crazy for Cassel considering, 10m/yr seems in line. By comparison, Mark Sanchez signed a 5yr/50 mil contract as a 1st round rookie that year.

Flacco just really blew the bank away when he signed his 6 year $120.6 million extension in 2013 - I think that was really what started pushing the QB salaries up over 20 p/yr.

 
Yeah I think hes gonna want what Jimmy G got, plus be in contention, so I think Cleveland is out. I think its Denver or Minnesota, whoever can afford it. 

 
I've been an unabashed Kirk fan for a long time.  I think he is a top 5 QB in the right situation.  I think these two contracts should be similar.

But if KC's contract gets into the 5 year, $145m+ range (which it may), even I don't think he's worth it.   If it goes there, then the Skins were right to cut ties (although they should have done it last year, tried to get a small amount back in a trade, and started McCoy or found another QB).

JG has huge upside.  That's why this deal got done at this amount.  Kirk, for all I love about him, hasn't proven he can win the game that matters, and unlike JG he's had his chances to win important games.  Some of that isn't Kirk.  But some of it is.  As a GM, I'd have a hard time forking over more for KC than for JG.

KC's agent better be careful not to outpace the market, because there are 4-5 QBs in the draft plenty of teams wouldn't mind settling for and immensely less $s. 

 
I've been an unabashed Kirk fan for a long time.  I think he is a top 5 QB in the right situation.  I think these two contracts should be similar.

But if KC's contract gets into the 5 year, $145m+ range (which it may), even I don't think he's worth it.   If it goes there, then the Skins were right to cut ties (although they should have done it last year, tried to get a small amount back in a trade, and started McCoy or found another QB).

JG has huge upside.  That's why this deal got done at this amount.  Kirk, for all I love about him, hasn't proven he can win the game that matters, and unlike JG he's had his chances to win important games.  Some of that isn't Kirk.  But some of it is.  As a GM, I'd have a hard time forking over more for KC than for JG.

KC's agent better be careful not to outpace the market, because there are 4-5 QBs in the draft plenty of teams wouldn't mind settling for and immensely less $s. 
I am very curious to see how Cousins does with a coach other than Jay Gruden. Because it is easy to say Cousins hasn't proven he can win a game that matters, but it's also true to say Jay Gruden hasn't proven he can coach to win a game that matters.

 
I am very curious to see how Cousins does with a coach other than Jay Gruden. Because it is easy to say Cousins hasn't proven he can win a game that matters, but it's also true to say Jay Gruden hasn't proven he can coach to win a game that matters.
I don't disagree about Gruden, but most of those late losses were square on Cousins. Terrible turnovers and bad throws. 

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Yeah I think hes gonna want what Jimmy G got, plus be in contention, so I think Cleveland is out. I think its Denver or Minnesota, whoever can afford it. 
I think it's odd people seem to be equating the MIN and DEN situations as win-now. MIN nearly made the SB with their backup QB and are ~$50mil under the cap. While den was last place in their own division, according to profootballfocus they had an SRS rating that was 29th in the league and they are ~$25mil under the cap. The broncos were just a bad team last year, period. It went way beyond just their QB being bad.

Don't get me wrong, I hope that elway does sign Cousins to a HUGE contract because he's done a pretty great job tearing that SB team apart and that salary will just accelerate the process. They could release Talib, Sanders, and CJ Anderson and they still wouldn't have the cap space MIN has without dropping anyone. Not to mention Kirk would be stepping into a 5-win team losing 3 of it's most important players. But elway is so good at finding talent in the draft I'm sure he won't have any trouble finding players to replace them. At least he's ensured the franchise has early picks.

 
I think it's odd people seem to be equating the MIN and DEN situations as win-now. MIN nearly made the SB with their backup QB and are ~$50mil under the cap. While den was last place in their own division, according to profootballfocus they had an SRS rating that was 29th in the league and they are ~$25mil under the cap. The broncos were just a bad team last year, period. It went way beyond just their QB being bad.

Don't get me wrong, I hope that elway does sign Cousins to a HUGE contract because he's done a pretty great job tearing that SB team apart and that salary will just accelerate the process. They could release Talib, Sanders, and CJ Anderson and they still wouldn't have the cap space MIN has without dropping anyone. Not to mention Kirk would be stepping into a 5-win team losing 3 of it's most important players. But elway is so good at finding talent in the draft I'm sure he won't have any trouble finding players to replace them. At least he's ensured the franchise has early picks.
Are you saying Minnesota isn’t win now or just that the den/min comparison is off? Minnesota is where Denver was pre Manning, window is open. Denver’s defense isn’t what it was 3 years ago, but people still look at them as this juggernaut that is a qb away. 

 
Are you saying Minnesota isn’t win now or just that the den/min comparison is off? Minnesota is where Denver was pre Manning, window is open. Denver’s defense isn’t what it was 3 years ago, but people still look at them as this juggernaut that is a qb away. 
I think he's saying MIN is win now.  Denver might not be...

Although the path to the playoffs is easier in the AFC, you can be a good team and still miss the playoffs in the NFC,

 
The Browns would be the absolute best fit. With a slew of picks all they would need is a coach. Man, they could have Cousins, Barkley and Fitzpatrick to go along with Gordon, Coleman and the rest of the picks. Easily a ten win team.

 
Browns have some young talent and crazy good draft capital and a new good O coordinator and tons of cap space to sign Cousins +. 
You're right. but even with that, it's still Cleveland. 

It's funny though, any other team in that position would be an exciting up and coming team. 

But it's the Browns :X

 
You're right. but even with that, it's still Cleveland. 

It's funny though, any other team in that position would be an exciting up and coming team. 

But it's the Browns :X
The Browns have sucked MAINLY because we have had terrible TERRIBLE QB play. Cousins would solve that problem.

Then factor in the remaining 70+ million cap space and the largest amount of draft capital ever, added to what is a team that already has a lot of "decent" players.

 
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The Browns have sucked MAINLY because we have had terrible TERRIBLE QB play. Cousins would solve that problem.

Then factor in the remaining 70+ million cap space and the largest amount of draft capital ever, added to what is a team that already has a lot of "decent" players.
The dawg pound better hope they do a better job with it than the 92 colts did with their top picks. Not that emtman and Coryatt were horrible, but not what they wanted. 

 
The dawg pound better hope they do a better job with it than the 92 colts did with their top picks. Not that emtman and Coryatt were horrible, but not what they wanted. 
Assuming Kirk, I want to trade down from BOTH picks.  1 down to 5 or 6. 4 down to 15 or with Buffalo and their two 1sts and more.  If we traded down from both picks and picked up two more future 1sts we might still have the most draft capital ever.  Would be close anyway.

 
Assuming Kirk, I want to trade down from BOTH picks.  1 down to 5 or 6. 4 down to 15 or with Buffalo and their two 1sts and more.  If we traded down from both picks and picked up two more future 1sts we might still have the most draft capital ever.  Would be close anyway.
Sure. I would say join the mock https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/764869-official-february-shark-pool-what-i-want-my-team-to-do-mock-draft/

But jetmaxx beat you to the pound.

 
The Browns would be the absolute best fit. With a slew of picks all they would need is a coach. Man, they could have Cousins, Barkley and Fitzpatrick to go along with Gordon, Coleman and the rest of the picks. Easily a ten win team.
Saying a team with Hue Jackson as coach is easily a ten win team is a bit of a stretch

 
Saying a team with Hue Jackson as coach is easily a ten win team is a bit of a stretch
This is unfortunately very true.  

However, as much as I think Hue is awful, we really have not seen him be a "head coach" here yet.  No offensive coordinator was just inevitable disaster.  He missed so many things and made so many stupid decisions because his mind was obviously elsewhere.  Like staring at his play sheet.  

 
Saying a team with Hue Jackson as coach is easily a ten win team is a bit of a stretch
Cousins hasn't won 10 games in a season yet either. Maybe Cleveland will have more talent than he had to work with in Washington. But 10 wins seems a stretch right now. Their schedule outside the division isn't particularly tough, so that helps a bit.

 
Cousins hasn't won 10 games in a season yet either. Maybe Cleveland will have more talent than he had to work with in Washington. But 10 wins seems a stretch right now. Their schedule outside the division isn't particularly tough, so that helps a bit.
Not sure the division will be tough.  Cincy and Baltimore are not exactly the best these days.  Steelers obviously still real good.  

They have a chance to make legit significant upgrades all over the field outside of the QB position.

 
Ok so the math is: Take a team that is 1-31 in the last 2 seasons and add a QB that has a sub .500 record as a starter and BOOM! 10 win team. Got it. 
:lol:

I'll bash the browns as much as anyone but if all their players perform to potential, they sign cousins, and hue/Haley are competent, they could be average. Maybe slightly above.

 
:lol:

I'll bash the browns as much as anyone but if all their players perform to potential, they sign cousins, and hue/Haley are competent, they could be average. Maybe slightly above.
Yeah I actually agree in theory. It's just some pretty funny math. 

 
Ok so the math is: Take a team that is 1-31 in the last 2 seasons and add a QB that has a sub .500 record as a starter and BOOM! 10 win team. Got it. 
You would also be subtracting the worst QB play in the league from the last two years, and adding quite a huge amount in the draft and free agency.  I suppose also subtracting a GM who was essentially tanking for the past two years and adding a GM who plays to win.

So if you are going to do the math, do it right.  

 

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