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Official Kirk Cousins - GETS his chance, now what?


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30 minutes ago, Tool said:

That's what it appears- but sometimes a quiet team sneaks in there at the end. Denver?

If I'm Kirk I'm far more intrigued by playing with Larry Fitzgerald and David Johnson than I am scared by two of my former coaches becoming rivals. 

Assuming the money is close, which it might not be, I'm going to Minnesota. But I don't think that happens. My next choice is Arizona.

Edited by -OZ-
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2 hours ago, -OZ- said:

If I'm Kirk I'm far more intrigued by playing with Larry Fitzgerald and David Johnson than I am scared by two of my former coaches becoming rivals. 

Assuming the money is close, which it might not be, I'm going to Minnesota. But I don't think that happens. My next choice is Arizona.

Arizona has $9MM in cap space available currently - I don't see them as serious players. They can create some cap space I'm sure but would then not be able to sign anyone else. I'm not sure Arizona is such a great landing spot anyway, Fitz is old and LA and SF are emerging teams and Seattle is still lurking around - and that's just their division.

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On 2/20/2018 at 2:12 PM, Brunell4MVP said:

DC may not be a top 5 population or mass media market.  But from a media scrutiny of the football team and negative press base, it's right up there with NYC and Philly.  DC media loves drumming up Redskins rumors far more they they love across the aisle political scandals.  Fans have wearied out on it.  But the press certainly has not. 

I think Kirk has been under about as much media (not game) scrutiny as any QB (replacing RG3, contract status, trade rumors for 3 years, in game decisions, goal line decisions, injured players, etc).  Jalen Hurd may have been under more, but I think his HC took a lot of the media pressure off.  Gruden certainly didn't do that for Cousins.

DC media is a big market but it is not NYC. Also, Cousins has got almost universal love from the DC media because they love that he's been sticking it to the team/Snyder. He won't get any love in NYC if the team isn't winning. 

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1 hour ago, Dr. Octopus said:

Arizona has $9MM in cap space available currently - I don't see them as serious players. They can create some cap space I'm sure but would then not be able to sign anyone else. I'm not sure Arizona is such a great landing spot anyway, Fitz is old and LA and SF are emerging teams and Seattle is still lurking around - and that's just their division.

I find it hard to believe that Kirk would avoid Arizona out of fear of the 49ers. Let's not anoint them as a powerhouse yet.  I'm not sure how much weight he'd give the division rivals. But like I wrote, the money might not be close anyway.

Fwiw 

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/2/19/17028078/kirk-cousins-washington-franchise-tag-rumors-nfl-free-agency-2018

Arizona Cardinals

Why it makes sense: The Cardinals’ cap situation will make it difficult for them to be serious players in the Cousins sweepstakes. But Carson Palmer retired, and they’ve got no other quarterbacks on the roster.

Why it doesn’t: They only have $22.4 million in available cap space.

Latest rumors

Feb. 2: Larry Fitzgerald deserves to have a good quarterback for what’s probably his final season in the NFL, and he said on the Dan Patrick Show that he’s willing to use his golf connections in Phoenix to make it worth Cousins’ while.

 

Same article says Joe Thomas is also trying to lure him in...

Edited by -OZ-
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26 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I did not say that.

I must have misinterpreted your comment about Arizona not being a good landing spot. Looking back I get what you're saying. Although I do think it's better than most options.

22 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

I was wrong about the Cardinal cap space though - but I still think $22MM does limit what they can do.

Fair enough. And you'll probably be proven right.

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5 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

I must have misinterpreted your comment about Arizona not being a good landing spot. Looking back I get what you're saying. Although I do think it's better than most options.

 

There's a lot of factors why I don't think Arizona is a great landing spot really for him: The division has some up and coming teams (including SF) - with two HCs that helped develop him and could exploit his weaknesses; Arizona has a brand new HC that we do not know can handle the job; a 36/37 year old Fitzgerald as the only WR under contract and; Cousins would likely need to take a below market deal. 

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24 minutes ago, Dr. Octopus said:

There's a lot of factors why I don't think Arizona is a great landing spot really for him: The division has some up and coming teams (including SF) - with two HCs that helped develop him and could exploit his weaknesses; Arizona has a brand new HC that we do not know can handle the job; a 36/37 year old Fitzgerald as the only WR under contract and; Cousins would likely need to take a below market deal. 

Fair points for sure. I'm not worried about the other two coaches, perhaps he will be? 

We don't know Wilks, but McCoy is a fine OC.  Rough patch in Denver this year but I don't know if anyone could have succeeded there. 

But your bottom line is the bottom line. Unless they can come close to the Jets or browns, the rest isn't relevant.

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2 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I just don't see Denver going all in on Kirk Cousins. They have the worst cap space issue out of the other 3 major players would have to free up money to get a deal done. I think Kirk would have to take even less of contract than I think he is willing to do. I see the Vikings being able to do more than Denver and is just as good of a landing spot as Denver.  Elway is not going to get into a bidding war and really should they? And if I'm Kirk I'm not seeing this as a great landing spot. Two aging WR's in Thomas and Sanders. The offensive line needs help. There are significant questions about running back. Anderson surely would be cut to help make room for Cousins. Denver should draft a QB and build elsewhere.

In the end I think Cousins ends up on the dumbest team in football because the deal he gets will kill that team. I don’t think the dolphins have the space so the browns are leading the race.

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5 hours ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I just don't see Denver going all in on Kirk Cousins. They have the worst cap space issue out of the other 3 major players would have to free up money to get a deal done. I think Kirk would have to take even less of contract than I think he is willing to do. I see the Vikings being able to do more than Denver and is just as good of a landing spot as Denver.  Elway is not going to get into a bidding war and really should they? And if I'm Kirk I'm not seeing this as a great landing spot. Two aging WR's in Thomas and Sanders. The offensive line needs help. There are significant questions about running back. Anderson surely would be cut to help make room for Cousins. Denver should draft a QB and build elsewhere.

Minnesota >>> Denver right now for Cousins. Just my opinion I guess but I'm not sure how you'd objectively argue they're equal if Kirk wants to win now. 

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9 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

In the end I think Cousins ends up on the dumbest team in football because the deal he gets will kill that team. I don’t think the dolphins have the space so the browns are leading the race.

The Cowboys don’t appear to be an option at this point.

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1 hour ago, -OZ- said:

Maybe they didn't want him.

That may be true. My comment was more fantasy related (assuming they retain ARob). The Jags need to do something at the QB position however I can't blame them for not throwing a record breaking deal at Kirk Cousins. I would be shocked if they don't draft a QB in the first two rounds. 

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1 hour ago, King of the Jungle said:

That may be true. My comment was more fantasy related (assuming they retain ARob). The Jags need to do something at the QB position however I can't blame them for not throwing a record breaking deal at Kirk Cousins. I would be shocked if they don't draft a QB in the first two rounds. 

I won't be shocked if the value isn't there at their picks. 

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On 2/23/2018 at 9:30 AM, Dr. Octopus said:

I was wrong about the Cardinal cap space though - but I still think $22MM does limit what they can do.

The article someone posted above mentioned that the Cards have a ton of cap space freeing up in 2019 so they could structure the deal to make it work by pushing the first year cap hit off as they have a ton of space after 2018.

I also don't think "up and coming teams" in the division are a factor that really plays a role at all in his decision making.

Regardless, you mentioned a lot of other reasons why Arizona is a darkhorse in this race and I agree with that.

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59 minutes ago, King of the Jungle said:

I think they make it happen whether the value falls to them or they have to move up. This roster is ready to win and QB is the most glaring weakness IMO. 

They could do something similar to the Texans and Chiefs. But they seem more content with Bortles than other people would seem to believe.

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10 hours ago, FreeBaGeL said:

The article someone posted above mentioned that the Cards have a ton of cap space freeing up in 2019 so they could structure the deal to make it work by pushing the first year cap hit off as they have a ton of space after 2018.

I also don't think "up and coming teams" in the division are a factor that really plays a role at all in his decision making.

Regardless, you mentioned a lot of other reasons why Arizona is a darkhorse in this race and I agree with that.

That's mainly due to Deone Buchanon, Jared Veldheer, and Larry Fitzgerald becoming free agents in 2019 and Gresham and Bethea being cuttable..  With those guys plus Palmer's dead money that's $60M.  But then they are down Larry Fitz, Veldheer, and Buchanon.  That's a lot of talent they have to find a way to replace cheaply.  Buchanon they can probably justify letting walk for the money but you gotta get LT and WR taken care of.  It's a lot to overcome.

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Quote

 

Mike Jurecki of Arizona Sports does not expect the Cardinals to join the bidding for free agent Kirk Cousins.

Long one of the NFL's most reliable beat reporters, Jurecki expects the Cardinals to pass on Cousins and instead opt for two cheaper veteran quarterbacks to compete with a rookie, also noting Arizona "needs to get its O-Line figured out." If the Cards are truly out on Cousins, the Jets, Broncos, Vikings, and Browns would be left as his likeliest destinations. The Jaguars dropped out when they signed Blake Bortles to a new three-year, $54 million deal.

 

 

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As a Jet fan m actually more worried about the Vikings than Denver....

NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Vikings will be "in very heavy" on free agent Kirk Cousins.

RapSheet's report was seconded by colleague Mike Garafolo, hours after NFL.com's Gil Brandt said the same thing. In addition to a win-now team and ample cap room, the Vikings can offer Cousins an indoor playing environment -- where all quarterbacks are historically more productive -- and an exciting young offensive nucleus of Stefon Diggs, Adam Thielen, Kyle Rudolph, and Dalvin Cook.

Edited by Kiddnets
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36 minutes ago, osubuckeyeman said:

I think it comes down to the Jets, Vikings, and Browns in that order and I think at the end of the day I see him as a Jet. 

I think you're right about the three teams but unless there's a large difference in money I don't know how he doesn't choose the Vikings.

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24 minutes ago, -OZ- said:

I think you're right about the three teams but unless there's a large difference in money I don't know how he doesn't choose the Vikings.

If I were an NFC North team, I'd be hoping he does. 

If I were Cousins, I'd go wherever they paid me the most, so probably the Browns, with the added bonus, that if he wins even 5 games, he's a savior, if he doesn't, its because Hue sucks. Win-Win. If he goes to the Vikings, fair or not, if they don't go to the Super Bowl, the perception is that he wasn't good enough. 

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15 minutes ago, travdogg said:

If I were an NFC North team, I'd be hoping he does. 

If I were Cousins, I'd go wherever they paid me the most, so probably the Browns, with the added bonus, that if he wins even 5 games, he's a savior, if he doesn't, its because Hue sucks. Win-Win. If he goes to the Vikings, fair or not, if they don't go to the Super Bowl, the perception is that he wasn't good enough. 

The browns with hue and haley are a mess. Pass. The jets have nothing to give but money. Im guessing minnesota with an outside shot of elway talking him into coming to denver. 

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1 minute ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

The browns with hue and haley are a mess. Pass. The jets have nothing to give but money. Im guessing minnesota with an outside shot of elway talking him into coming to denver. 

If he isn't all about the money, I think Denver makes a lot of sense. I think Elway is a pretty persuasive guy, and they've got a decent supporting cast. 

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26 minutes ago, travdogg said:

If I were an NFC North team, I'd be hoping he does. 

If I were Cousins, I'd go wherever they paid me the most, so probably the Browns, with the added bonus, that if he wins even 5 games, he's a savior, if he doesn't, its because Hue sucks. Win-Win. If he goes to the Vikings, fair or not, if they don't go to the Super Bowl, the perception is that he wasn't good enough. 

:shrug: I want to win, I'm not inclined to sign into a culture of failure, and I'm not worried about what happens if I don't reach expectations. I want to be around the best. 

Elway could be convincing. So could bowles. 

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Are you guys focused on the team who has the best chance to win just this year, or are you looking past that?  What is Cousins looking at?  Who knows.  

I can't see him going to Denver.  I think they have the worst short term and long term outlook of ALL the teams in the Cousins race, and that includes Cleveland.  Yeah I said it, worse than Cleveland, especially past this year.

Edited by ghostguy123
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1 hour ago, bicycle_seat_sniffer said:

Why on earth would he go to the jets??

Team is coming off a 5 win season but really is much better...with a decent QB they would have won 8 games

Coaching staff just extended including the new OC who he knows and is comfortable with as a system

Team has a ton of $ to add multiple players even after paying him a ton

Also could use 1st rder and 2 2d rd picks for more help - especially OL and skill players 

Sun setting on Pats and Brady - rest of division a bona fide mess

NY market = huge endorsements and $

Not to mention instant lifetime legend status if he ever wins them a Super Bowl

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11 minutes ago, ghostguy123 said:

Are you guys focused on the team who has the best chance to win just this year, or are you looking past that?  What is Cousins looking at?  Who knows.  

I can't see him going to Denver.  I think they have the worst short term and long term outlook of ALL the teams in the Cousins race, and that includes Cleveland.  Yeah I said it, worse than Cleveland, especially past this year.

I think Denver is super underrated. They had BY FAR the worst QB play of any team in the NFL last year. Josh McCown gives them 3-4 more wins. If Cousins is as good as some think, and I'm certainly a big skeptic, they could be a playoff team in 2018 with him. They still have plenty of weapons, a very good defense, and are in a very wide open division.

Nobody has a worse short term outlook than the Browns, because nobody else has Hue Jackson calling the shots. I agree that long term the Browns could be a good option, but they seem to have no idea what they are doing. Hiring Dorsey will likely be a huge mistake, and a monster downgrade from Sashi. Dorsey was bad in KC, and the cause of most of their player and salary cap issues today.

 

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9 minutes ago, travdogg said:

I think Denver is super underrated. They had BY FAR the worst QB play of any team in the NFL last year. Josh McCown gives them 3-4 more wins. 

 

Josh McCown would also take away 2-3 wins from them (like he did for the Jets) so they’d end up basically in the same place.

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10. Kirk Cousins, Washington Redskins ……………………… 1 point.

(Last week: 7. 5 points)

If the energy wasted on the talk of him coming to the Browns could be harnessed, it could light up all of Northeast Ohio for a year. This has been the biggest non-story of the Browns’ offseason. Kudos to Rich Cimini of ESPN New York for researching Cousins’ 4-19 record against teams that finished with a better than .500 record. How do you like me now? The Vikings may soon be pondering that question.

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1 minute ago, DallasDMac said:

10. Kirk Cousins, Washington Redskins ……………………… 1 point.

(Last week: 7. 5 points)

If the energy wasted on the talk of him coming to the Browns could be harnessed, it could light up all of Northeast Ohio for a year. This has been the biggest non-story of the Browns’ offseason. Kudos to Rich Cimini of ESPN New York for researching Cousins’ 4-19 record against teams that finished with a better than .500 record. How do you like me now? The Vikings may soon be pondering that question.

same thing can be said about Matt Stafford, and if he was available 25/32 teams would be looking into him 

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On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 9:04 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

Haven’t people learned by now that the NFL is not static?

There’s so much turnover in playoff teams every year. Teams that were “great” in 2017 miss the playoffs in 2018...teams that were an afterthought in 2017 made strong playoff runs in 2018z

while true if the money is remotely close, I'm going to the team with the all world Defense and solid running game and two really nice WRs, not sure what the jets offer besides money and  a great city.

Edited by bicycle_seat_sniffer
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On 2/26/2018 at 8:38 PM, Kiddnets said:

Team is coming off a 5 win season but really is much better...with a decent QB they would have won 8 games

Coaching staff just extended including the new OC who he knows and is comfortable with as a system

Team has a ton of $ to add multiple players even after paying him a ton

Also could use 1st rder and 2 2d rd picks for more help - especially OL and skill players 

Sun setting on Pats and Brady - rest of division a bona fide mess

NY market = huge endorsements and $

Not to mention instant lifetime legend status if he ever wins them a Super Bowl

Along with Brady being on his way out, the QB situation for the Dolphins and Bills aren’t promising.  They are likely to be rebuilding still over the next few years.

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On 2018-02-26 at 8:04 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

Haven’t people learned by now that the NFL is not static?

There’s so much turnover in playoff teams every year. Teams that were “great” in 2017 miss the playoffs in 2018...teams that were an afterthought in 2017 made strong playoff runs in 2018z

Jets, browns, lions and dolphins have each been waiting 30 years for one of those great seasons. I think bad ownership hurts a lot. There’s certainly some truth to your point but I’d avoid the crappy organizations at all costs if I was him.

Edited by voiceofunreason
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6 hours ago, voiceofunreason said:

Jets, browns, lions and dolphins have each been waiting 30 years for one of those great seasons. I think bad ownership hurts a lot. There’s certainly some truth to your point but I’d avoid the crappy organizations at all costs if I was him.

Jets have been in two AFC Championship games in the last 10 years and were 10-6 three seasons ago.

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12 minutes ago, voiceofunreason said:

Yeah but that's it for 30 years and those teams had Sanchez at qb and weren't super bowl contenders imo. Ownership is highly erratic.

Actually they were also in the AFC championship game in 98/99 and in the playoffs other years between now and then. They are far from a model franchise and have been run poorly at times but they are fully capable of contending with better QB play.

Minnesota was a very good team last season but did catch some breaks on the way (they also overcame some major obstacles to be fair). Would anyone really be shocked if they missed the playoffs this upcoming season? I don't think it's inconceivable they finish third in their own division. I'm not predicting that, but I can see it happening - even with Cousins.

Now is Minnesota a better team than the Jets? - yes they are. However the Jets have some real young talent in place on defense, have some good young WRs, have the 1.06 and 2 second round picks and have $90MM in cap space, The AFC is also an easier path at this time (on paper at least).

Ultimately I think he ends up in Denver, but we'll see.

Edited by Dr. Octopus
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