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Official Kirk Cousins - GETS his chance, now what?


pizzatyme

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50 minutes ago, fatness said:

Last year the Vikings were 13-3.  This year with Cousins they're 8-7-1.

Last year the Redskins were 7-9 with Cousins. This year with 4 different QB's they're 7-9.

Cousins leads teams to mediocrity, but teams don't need Cousins to be mediocre.  He sure came up mediocre again today. 

Funny how @lod001 disappeared from this thread and the Redskins thread. Trolls always go back under the bridge when it's time to crash. 

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21 minutes ago, Sebowski said:

Funny how @lod001 disappeared from this thread and the Redskins thread. Trolls always go back under the bridge when it's time to crash. 

:lmao:  I didn't need to go back to the Redskins thread. They have NO QB now.  They are now the NFC East bottom feeders. With Cousins at least they made the playoffs once. 

It would have been just slapping a loser in the face when he's down.

it's also pretty damn funny that you are all bowed up sticking your chest out and your team is no better off.

Skins O ranked 29th in points and 28th in yards. Yeah, you won that one. :lmao: 

Edited by lod001
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2 hours ago, lod001 said:

:lmao:  I didn't need to go back to the Redskins thread. They have NO QB now.  They are now the NFC East bottom feeders. With Cousins at least they made the playoffs once. 

It would have been just slapping a loser in the face when he's down.

it's also pretty damn funny that you are all bowed up sticking your chest out and your team is no better off.

Skins O ranked 29th in points and 28th in yards. Yeah, you won that one. :lmao: 

Redskins won 7 games with Cousins last year. They won 7 this year with Alex Smith, Colt McCoy, Mark Sanchez, and Josh Johnson. The Vikings won 13 games last year with Case Keenum and 8 games this year with Kirk Cousins. 

And give me a break that you're above "slapping a loser in the face when he's down". You live for those moments. It's your favorite thing to do. 

Also, not bottom feeders. 3rd place. Giants are the bottom feeders. For 2 years in a row. 

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The problem with the vikings is that Zimmer has decided they are going to be a defense first, run game focused offense and their line just cant do it. He's going to hammer that square peg into a round hole until they either get a top 5 oline or he's fired. Most likely the defense falls apart before they fix the offense and he's fired. 

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1 hour ago, Faust said:

From that article

Quote

in a game where their playoff lives were on the line, the Vikings played timid.

Quote

He is a mechanically sound quarterback. He has some good moments and has put up some good stats. But when it's time for Cousins to produce in big spots, he comes up small. It happens in almost every game. It happens all the time. 

The Vikings brought in Cousins to push them over the top. Not only didn't that happen, but they instead regressed. They became just another Cousins disappointment.

 

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16 minutes ago, Wise Old Owl said:

The problem with the vikings is that Zimmer has decided they are going to be a defense first, run game focused offense and their line just cant do it. He's going to hammer that square peg into a round hole until they either get a top 5 oline or he's fired. Most likely the defense falls apart before they fix the offense and he's fired. 

Every coach and fan of Kirk Cousins has thought that the problem with the team was something other than Kirk Cousins.

There's an established pattern here of Cousins underperforming and people making excuses for him.

 

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Just before halftime, Cousins and his wide receiver, Adam Thielen, got into a heated discussion on the sideline.

It looks like (based on amateur lip reading) Cousins says, "I don't have 10 seconds"—presumably because Cousins felt he didn't have enough time for Thielen to run deeper and more complex routes.

Then, Thielen seems to say, "Just throw the ball."

I assume the Vikings will identify Thielen as the problem.

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I’m sorry but Cousins isn’t the problem on this team. It’s super easy to say ‘The QB sux!!!!’ but those of us who watch the team weekly see that with time Kirk is a real upgrade over Teddy/Bradford/Keenam who all led us to some success. 

I think Kirk needs to let it rip, run more, take control more. But - if you didn’t come away from this game thinking that this OLine is the problem you aren’t very good at watching football. 

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Nothing has changed. Cousins is what he's always been, a good/solid QB but not elite. And he has a history of struggling when the games matter the most. I don't think Cousins is the one who should be getting bashed, but the Vikings front office. And even though Washington seems to do almost everything wrong with their front office these days, letting him go and not paying him a huge contract actually looks pretty damn smart right now. Of course, paying what they did for Smith, and knowing he might not make it back is another kick in the bean bag. Again, I'm hoping they draft Daniel Jones. I think he's got the goods. 

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30 minutes ago, ffmail4me said:

Nothing has changed. Cousins is what he's always been, a good/solid QB but not elite. And he has a history of struggling when the games matter the most. I don't think Cousins is the one who should be getting bashed, but the Vikings front office. And even though Washington seems to do almost everything wrong with their front office these days, letting him go and not paying him a huge contract actually looks pretty damn smart right now. Of course, paying what they did for Smith, and knowing he might not make it back is another kick in the bean bag. Again, I'm hoping they draft Daniel Jones. I think he's got the goods. 

Pretty much this.  He doesn't suck, but he's not a Drew Brees/Peyton Manning that can carry a team. The problem in the NFL is teams paying those middle/slightly above average QB's top dollar just to ensure they have a good one - then having to sacrifice the rest of the team to do it.

Redskins actually made the right call not paying him, but having the top two QB's go out along with OL injuries galore will hurt any team. 

Overall, the lesson is - Invest in the O-line first.  Period.

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From a friend of mine who is a Vikings fan (can't say I disagree with him)...

QB comparison

Kirk Cousins: 70% 4298 yds 30 tds 10 ints

Tom Brady: 66% 4355 yds 29 tds 11 ints

Deshaun Watson: 68% 4165 yds 26 tds 9 ints

Trubisky: 67% 3223 yds 24 tds 12 ints

Rivers: 68% 4308 yds 32 tds 12 ints

Comparison to a few playoff QBs. Certainly not in the same stratosphere as Mahomes/Roethlisberger/Luck/Rodgers...at best probably most comparable to Philip Rivers (who is a marginal MVP candidate) or Jared Goff. Cousins has the second highest completion pct among starting qbs (more than 5 games played).  Vikings o-line ranked 30th. He’s not problem.

I am not a Vikings fan - but I always thought Cousins was a decent qb.

 

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12 hours ago, fatness said:

Every coach and fan of Kirk Cousins has thought that the problem with the team was something other than Kirk Cousins.

There's an established pattern here of Cousins underperforming and people making excuses for him.

 

I'm not a big Cousin's fan. I think he's certainly overrated (at least before this year) and overpaid. That said, I believe he can be a productive QB in an offense that caters to his strengths. This offense maybe did the opposite.

Also, I know this season will be rightfully considered a failure, but if you look at their losses, they had a rough schedule. Here are their 7 losses: Bears x2, Pats, Seahawks, Saints, Rams and Bills. Other than the Bills game, every other loss is to a 10+ win playoff team. 

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5 hours ago, Mr. Know-It-All said:

From a friend of mine who is a Vikings fan (can't say I disagree with him)...

QB comparison

Kirk Cousins: 70% 4298 yds 30 tds 10 ints

Tom Brady: 66% 4355 yds 29 tds 11 ints

Deshaun Watson: 68% 4165 yds 26 tds 9 ints

Trubisky: 67% 3223 yds 24 tds 12 ints

Rivers: 68% 4308 yds 32 tds 12 ints

Comparison to a few playoff QBs. Certainly not in the same stratosphere as Mahomes/Roethlisberger/Luck/Rodgers...at best probably most comparable to Philip Rivers (who is a marginal MVP candidate) or Jared Goff. Cousins has the second highest completion pct among starting qbs (more than 5 games played).  Vikings o-line ranked 30th. He’s not problem.

I am not a Vikings fan - but I always thought Cousins was a decent qb.

 

He's always been a great FF QB, and a bad on the field results QB. Nothing new here.

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2 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

He's always been a great FF QB, and a bad on the field results QB. Nothing new here.

Aren't completion %, TD/INT ratios and yds measures of ‘on the field’ results?

QBs get WAY to much credit and blame. 

Edited by mr roboto
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8 hours ago, Mr. Know-It-All said:

From a friend of mine who is a Vikings fan (can't say I disagree with him)...

QB comparison

Kirk Cousins: 70% 4298 yds 30 tds 10 ints

Tom Brady: 66% 4355 yds 29 tds 11 ints

Deshaun Watson: 68% 4165 yds 26 tds 9 ints

Trubisky: 67% 3223 yds 24 tds 12 ints

Rivers: 68% 4308 yds 32 tds 12 ints

Comparison to a few playoff QBs. Certainly not in the same stratosphere as Mahomes/Roethlisberger/Luck/Rodgers...at best probably most comparable to Philip Rivers (who is a marginal MVP candidate) or Jared Goff. Cousins has the second highest completion pct among starting qbs (more than 5 games played).  Vikings o-line ranked 30th. He’s not problem.

I am not a Vikings fan - but I always thought Cousins was a decent qb.

 

Raw totals mean little in comparison. Cousins had tons more attempts than those guys, more than 100 more in the case of Watson and Rivers (why even bring up Trubisky who missed multiple games other than to be disingenuous?) His yards per attempt are the lowest of all the QB's named. Cousins is the king of dink and dunk and throw a 5 yard completion on 3rd down when you need 7 yards for the 1st down which is why his completion percentage is so high.

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57 minutes ago, Buckna said:

Raw totals mean little in comparison. Cousins had tons more attempts than those guys, more than 100 more in the case of Watson and Rivers (why even bring up Trubisky who missed multiple games other than to be disingenuous?) His yards per attempt are the lowest of all the QB's named. Cousins is the king of dink and dunk and throw a 5 yard completion on 3rd down when you need 7 yards for the 1st down which is why his completion percentage is so high.

Disingenuous? The comparison was to playoff qbs.  Now if I compared him to a non-playoff qb that would be disingenuous.  And...I was not even doing the comparison - it came from a buddy of mine who is a Vikings fan AND likes Cousins.

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21 minutes ago, DallasDMac said:

No, wins and losses are. No one other than FF folks care what his stats looked like. They saw him come up small against good teams, just like he did in Washington.

Maybe but it’s still hard to remove the player from the entire team around him. 

I will say this - he seems to not be able to improvise or play ‘agressive’ at all. Does he overthink stuff or just freeze under pressure?

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PFF grades 2016. Kinda fun to read through. 

Cousins was 13. Bradford was 15. But read his listing - bad OLine held him back. Hmmmmmmm. I’m sensing a theme in MN. 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-quarterbacks-this-season

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19 hours ago, Wise Old Owl said:

The problem with the vikings is that Zimmer has decided they are going to be a defense first, run game focused offense and their line just cant do it. 

Run game focused offense? They were 6th highest in pass attempts and 6th lowest in run attepmts. 

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15 hours ago, mr roboto said:

I will say this - he seems to not be able to improvise or play ‘agressive’ at all. Does he overthink stuff or just freeze under pressure?

 

This drove Gruden and Redskins WRs crazy. He wouldn't even take shots in practice, he'd check down or take the first read. He's obsessive about playing within the system. It made him a good trigger man/puppet on the field for an X's and O's genius scheming guys open every play like McVay. Doesn't work so well in a vanilla offense like Gruden's or the one he's in now where he's expected to make the magic. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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59 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

This drove Gruden and Redskins WRs crazy. He wouldn't even take shots in practice, he'd check down or take the first read. He's obsessive about playing within the system. It made him a good trigger man/puppet on the field for an X's and O's genius scheming guys open every play like McVay. Doesn't work so well in a vanilla offense like Gruden's or the one he's in now where he's expected to make the magic. 

Thanks. This makes sense of all the data points (he’s very talented, works hard, team player, accurate and yet seems too small for the moment). 

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16 hours ago, hispeedthinmint said:

I bet he can make things happen with a decent O-Line. Everyone is not Manning or Brees or Marino etc...

I agree with this. Quite simply Kirk Cousins is a tier 2/3 QB with tier 1 expectations for some reason. He's always been a "pretty decent" QB... If the rest of your team is great you can win with this guy, but I never saw the massive upgrade from Case Keenum that the national media does.

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31 minutes ago, Dizzy said:

I agree with this. Quite simply Kirk Cousins is a tier 2/3 QB with tier 1 expectations for some reason. He's always been a "pretty decent" QB... If the rest of your team is great you can win with this guy, but I never saw the massive upgrade from Case Keenum that the national media does.

"for some reason"? The reason is he demanded and got the biggest contract in NFL history. 

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1 minute ago, Sebowski said:

"for some reason"? The reason is he demanded and got the biggest contract in NFL history. 

Can't blame Cousins for that though. It's a buyer beware world.

I'm sure we'll see something similar with Lev Bell in 2019. Somebody will pay  him a ton of money and regret every minute of it come Fall.

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32 minutes ago, Sebowski said:

"for some reason"? The reason is he demanded and got the biggest contract in NFL history. 

Cousin's total contact is not in the top 10 right now. The biggest right now is Matt Ryan at $150M with $94.5M guaranteed. Cousins has more guaranteed per year but Ryan (and Rodgers) will almost certainly earn more than he does per year. And all of the next decent starting QBs to negotiate a contract will earn more. (Interestingly, there are no decent starting QBs up for free agency in 2019. Wilson, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Goff, Wentz coming up in 2020.)

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16 minutes ago, CalBear said:

Cousin's total contact is not in the top 10 right now. The biggest right now is Matt Ryan at $150M with $94.5M guaranteed. Cousins has more guaranteed per year but Ryan (and Rodgers) will almost certainly earn more than he does per year. And all of the next decent starting QBs to negotiate a contract will earn more. (Interestingly, there are no decent starting QBs up for free agency in 2019. Wilson, Roethlisberger, Rivers, Goff, Wentz coming up in 2020.)

Total contract, correct. K Cousin is still the third highest in $$$ per year. It is the only multi year guaranteed contract.

I think K Cousin's 28 million a year will be matched by upper tier QB's, not decent starters.

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7 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

This drove Gruden and Redskins WRs crazy. He wouldn't even take shots in practice, he'd check down or take the first read. He's obsessive about playing within the system. It made him a good trigger man/puppet on the field for an X's and O's genius scheming guys open every play like McVay. Doesn't work so well in a vanilla offense like Gruden's or the one he's in now where he's expected to make the magic. 

I was watching a pregame show this past Sunday and they highlighted that very thing on a number of plays this year. WRs were either open down the field or streaking matched up in single coverage and Cousins would check down. 

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4 minutes ago, Wise Old Owl said:

I think there is no way Foles gets that much. Cousins was overpaid to save a franchise, they let 3 qbs walk to sign Cousins. Foles will get signed as a stopgap while a team reaches on a project. 

Alex Smith got $23.5M/year to come to Washington. Foles is five years younger and at least as good. Heck, it may be Washington that pays Foles that much. 

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1 minute ago, DallasDMac said:

So we're comparing one game to several seasons worth of data?

Over the last four years he completed 2/3 of his passes and had a 4.8% TD rate vs 2.0% INT rate -- on ~2300 dropbacks.

That's very good.  A healthy organization with a good team and intelligent play-calling can win with that.

I get that his contract seems high today, but two years from now it'll be blown out of the water.

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22 minutes ago, Dinsy Ejotuz said:

Over the last four years he completed 2/3 of his passes and had a 4.8% TD rate vs 2.0% INT rate -- on ~2300 dropbacks.

That's very good.  A healthy organization with a good team and intelligent play-calling can win with that.

I get that his contract seems high today, but two years from now it'll be blown out of the water.

Likely true. Further driving ticket prices out of reach for the average fan.

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2 hours ago, DallasDMac said:

Likely true. Further driving ticket prices out of reach for the average fan.

The NFL is a money-printing machine and it's entirely appropriate that the players who make it happen get some of the benefit from it. Certainly they deserve it more than the owners do.

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