If you were starting a small business with <10K startup capital... (1 Viewer)

Joe Bryant · Apr 9, 2014

Echoing what Kutta said on debt.

My thought is do everything humanly possible to avoid debt. It's the devil. In some businesses, it's unavoidable. But operating a business that isn't servicing debt feels like running with the ankle weights taken off. Do everything you can to never get in the position of having to feed the monster that can be debt.

J

datonn · Apr 9, 2014

mr roboto said:
I will say this - not every small business consumes your life. Some do. But sometimes in these threads the datonn malaise gets a bit thick. Not picking on him specifically, but I think the self-flogging entrepreneur is worshipping their business and busy-ness.

That's a very good, valid point. Different types of businesses require very different types of investment (time and money). Someone could walk dogs, mow lawns, or deliver food for restaurants that don't deliver (Dodds' idea?!) and never work more than 30-40 hours/week! My type of situation is a bit different, as I wasn't just trying to start "a" business. I was trying to start "the" business. A business that would take our industry by the balls...and expand its presence into a global market area. 14 years in, we've gotten ~75-80% of where I wanted to get to when I was getting things started. My previous two jobs, I was asked to work 60-70 hours/week for basically 40-45 hours of pay (salaried)...so the hard work and long hours didn't scare me off. Work's been my life since I was a teenager on the farm...so I guess I just don't know any better/different.

Also, FWIW, it's not about glorifying one's QUANTITY of work! It's about the QUALITY of work and ROI you produce while you're OTC. My wife gets mad at me now, as I can close 5+ figure deals in between holes on the disc golf course! B) I still work my fool head off until 2-3 am most nights...but that is mainly because I need to catch our overseas clients and partners in their 9-to-5 to keep those pipelines to projects/revenues open and flowing. If I forced everyone to get to me on my 9-to-5? I could kiss 90% of our business in the Middle East, EU and SE Asia goodbye. Which is part of the reason none of our competitors go there. They don't want work to interfere with poker night or dinner and a movie with the SO.

Everything in life is about costs and benefits...and nothing in life is free of costs. You just gotta make sure the benefits you receive from the costs you incur (time, expenses, et al) is worth it. Or you'll be one miserable fella.

Leroy's Aces · Apr 9, 2014

Great thread.

I own two primarily online-based businesses (co-owner of the Fantasy Football Players Championship and owner of Watchco.com, so here are a few random comments.

Sometimes I just mess around on Kickstarter to see what interesting ideas/concepts are out there. The truly wonderful thing about Kickstarter is you get people to pay you to produce your concept/product idea and you get to keep all of the equity. How can you beat that? If you have an idea that could resonate with consumers, a Kickstarter-funded business could get off the ground for about $200. And if it sucks, you will have spent virtually nothing and learned a lot.

Landscaping comment: I have a friend that owns a concrete curb landscaping business (www.CustomCurb.com) and those guys do very well. It is tough work, but it can't cost too much to get into.

If you are passionate about a certain type of industry, try and go to a trade show within that industry. I annually go to the Fantasy Sports Trade Conference, The SHOT show (guns and outdoor, same time as FSTA), JCK (watch and jewelry) and Magic/Projects (fashion and accessories) and always learn something. Lots of ideas at these shows.

At the Magic/Projects show this year, I noticed easily 100 different hat/cap companies there. Baseball, urban (Kangol, baby!), classy, etc. With lots of effort and a decent amount of money, one could do a hat eCommerce site and probably do well. Then get an account on Amazon and sell there. And then sell on Amazon Canada and Rakuten (formerly Buy.com) and Ebay (with some brands). There is a big learning curve in eCommerce. If you have limited tech skills like me, you will need to find a programmer in the US or roll the dice overseas. Probably more on the $100K level to get into and you always need $$$ for inventory unless you drop-ship which I generally avoid.

Work with people you like.

I agree with the comments about debt in a general sense. That said, I started WatchCo (you do need inventory) on two credit cards with 18% interest rates when I was 22 and broke with no other options except getting a real job or going for it.

I would never open a bar or restaurant and my banker told me her bank would almost never lend to a startup in those fields. I figure she knows better than me and I hear owning a restaurant means 100 hour work weeks, so no thanks.

I would never buy a franchise (again, lol). You are beholden to the franchisor and the failure rate on those is similar to independent businesses. Some people succeed but it is not for me.

A comment on how much work is involved in running your own business. Sometimes it is insane, like 12-16 hours days for 30 days straight during months like August (FFPC) or December (WatchCo.com). Most of the year, it is fun and interesting and always challenging in one way or another. I am sometimes working at 5:30 am and also sometimes at 9 pm. But I am also sometimes home by 2 pm and my workday is done. I can always see my kids' plays or take a weekend to go somewhere. Due to this lifestyle, I am able take plenty of vacations, usually four full weeks a year to go to various places with family. Work is never too far away even on vacation, but I would never trade this life for a life working for someone else.

Last comment: Never miss an opportunity to sell your wares. (use loyalty10 at WatchCo.com for 10% off and Main Event registration is now open for the FFPC.

)

The Goat · Apr 9, 2014

Privacy consulting.

tommyboy · Apr 10, 2014

For 10k, id probably buy a food cart, small coffee shop or ice cream shop, try to buy a small rental property or just start a graphics design or other business to business type service company. Fir 100k id buy commercial property, or buy an old theater, get a beer and wine license and run 2nd run movies.

NCCommish · Apr 10, 2014

Joe Bryant said:
Good stuff in here. Lots of great angles.

Couple of random points. And for sure, these are just my opinions. I don't know that they're right. They're just what I believe after doing this kind of thing for a pretty long time.

*** It's cliche because it's true - But find something you at least sort of like doing and being around. I get it, not everyone can do a fantasy sports site - I'm the outlier there and very lucky. But if I wasn't doing this, I'd be doing something I liked doing.

And to dig into that a little further, lots of businesses aren't necessarily about the product. I loved my time at Bryant Boats (sold it a couple of years ago) but it wasn't so much that I loved boating. I like boating. But I love making high quality stuff that customers loved. And I love the interaction and working with the people I worked with. I think I could have been just as happy making high quality leather notebooks or boots or throwback flannel baseball jerseys. You obviously have to be an expert on the product but the main thing I believe is to understand it so that you can deliver the product that people want.

And that sort of comes back to understanding and knowing yourself. I know people who would love Abe's landscaping idea. And some people who'd hate it. Same with NCC's tech services. Doesn't mean you're a good or bad person. It's just who you are. Know yourself.

*** Take the long term view. Maybe it's our FedEx Next Day delivery mentality or the instant download from Amazon but if I consistently see a quality lacking among folks today (and not just young folks) it's patience. I see so many startups where the business plan is basically, "Make something cool, draw a ton of eyeballs, and sell to Google / Facebook / Yahoo for a zillion dollars in 3 years". That's not a business plan. That's a lottery ticket. Yet I see tons do it. Just because it worked for the company on the front page of TechCrunch today doesn't mean it'll work for you. In fact, it'll probably NOT work for you. Make decisions and choices as if you'll be the person who has to clean up the fallout.

*** It's ok not to be the hottest / most glamorous / coolest business and also it's ok if you're not the greatest. I heard a talk by the 37Signals guys a while back and he was talking about how no web companies want to be the nice Italian restaurant on the corner that does a solid business with faithful customers. It bucks the trend, but I think it's ok sometimes to not be making the giant splashes. The business world is a pretty big place. I think it's ok to be the nice Italian restaurant sometimes. That can be a pretty dang good business.

More as I think of it. Good thread.

J

Absolutely true

NCCommish · Apr 10, 2014

mr roboto said:
I will say this - not every small business consumes your life. Some do. But sometimes in these threads the datonn malaise gets a bit thick. Not picking on him specifically, but I think the self-flogging entrepreneur is worshipping their business and busy-ness.

It kind of depends. For instance in the what we do we have to be responsive 24/7 365. It's the nature of the beast. When we first started there were just two of us doing everything from service to back office functions. It took more than 40 a week.

Quez · Apr 10, 2014

satch said:
I'm always toying with the idea of starting an online "boutique" musical instrument store offering vintage/rare/classic/hard to find items. I'm semi-addicted to buy/selling/trading gear on craigslist. I'd be in heaven if I could profit doing so. Technically, I have profited doing so, but on a very small, personal scale.

I'd do repairs & restoration myself, and offer a service to find specific items people were looking for, as I also love the searching aspect of it. $10,000 should be plenty to get a cool website up and running and acquire some gear to offer for sale. I'd use ebay, craigslist, and be active on forums featuring Fender, Martin, Gibson, etc. Additional items would be added as acquired.

I know it's not a unique idea by any means, but it would just be a part time thing to do for personal enjoyment and hopefully some profit. Would never get rich, and best case scenario is maybe if I executed it well enough I could grow a decent reputation as a go-to resource for items like this and my "find it for you" service would be popular among those who just don't have the time to scour the internet looking for what they want. Worst case scenario is I end up with a bunch of really cool gear in my basement, which isn't so bad. I'd sell it all eventually, or just keep it. Seems like kind of a no-risk, all reward scenario for me based on my interests.

You should be able to start up a shopify store pretty easily selling this stuff. This is a perfect idea for a small e-commerce site. You probably don't have many products to add, and it should be easy to keep up with. You just have to take decent pictures of the product, and write some content with keywords. A niche product like this should do well with a good site.

mr roboto · Apr 10, 2014

NCCommish said:
mr roboto said:

I will say this - not every small business consumes your life. Some do. But sometimes in these threads the datonn malaise gets a bit thick. Not picking on him specifically, but I think the self-flogging entrepreneur is worshipping their business and busy-ness.

Click to expand...

It kind of depends. For instance in the what we do we have to be responsive 24/7 365. It's the nature of the beast. When we first started there were just two of us doing everything from service to back office functions. It took more than 40 a week.

I get that. I'm working for a start-up now as the entire sales and real estate and legal compliance side of things. It's a ton of work. But I don't find my identity in that.

NCCommish · Apr 10, 2014

mr roboto said:
NCCommish said:

mr roboto said:

I will say this - not every small business consumes your life. Some do. But sometimes in these threads the datonn malaise gets a bit thick. Not picking on him specifically, but I think the self-flogging entrepreneur is worshipping their business and busy-ness.

Click to expand...

It kind of depends. For instance in the what we do we have to be responsive 24/7 365. It's the nature of the beast. When we first started there were just two of us doing everything from service to back office functions. It took more than 40 a week.

Click to expand...

I get that. I'm working for a start-up now as the entire sales and real estate and legal compliance side of things. It's a ton of work. But I don't find my identity in that.

I agree and I think if you do it's unhealthy. I think it's especially hard on your personal life if you do. You have to able to put it aside and wind down sometimes.

SWC · Apr 10, 2014

i would try to find some part that everyone needs something that is not very high profile like maybe a top for a plastic shampoo bottle or a metal piece for a walker leg or something and then get the equipment and start making those and do it cheaper than anyone else by a lot and then get all the contracts for the part you can and work like hell to fill them make a little money on each part but do it in super high volume out of your garage or basement do not even have a rented building no costs no employees bam just one piece of equipment and let ups or something do the logistics and bam you are in the green start small and grow take that to the bank bromigos

Quez · Apr 10, 2014

Ted Mullins said:
Good thread, nice to see the back and forth over the ideas. Abe, I really like Altucher's blog too - has really changed the way I think about some things.

Unrelated to the ideas already present in this thread, but I had a job for a short while recently that was a bit all over the place - they did printing, marketing, embroidery, etc. A lot of the customers that had marketing needs would buy things like pens, mugs, notebooks, etc. with their company logo on the items. We had a membership to a promotional sales organization that gave us access to all sorts of vendors that sold promo items - all we did was find what the customer wanted, send the vendor a PO, and then they would blind ship the items to our customer, and we usually marked this up anywhere from 25-100%, depending on the item. Seemed like basically anyone could get into it very easily, IF you could make the sales - the hard part, obviously. Very low maintenance beyond making the sale itself, though.

My family owns a business in Tampa that does screen printing, embroidery, promo products, etc. It's a great business once you get customers, but there is a good amount of competition. The most important part is identifying the target customer. For example, we don't want someone who is going to order 5-10 shirts. We are looking for medium to large businesses.

Another problem is there are a lot of businesses that will offer shirts much cheaper just to steal a contract. We had a new FF chain that we were doing all the work for, and they shopped us and got the shirts cheaper. We can't give product away, so we stood firm on our price. They still use us for some stuff, but use the other company primarily because they are cheaper. My wife says she gets calls from them when the other company doesn't have stuff in stock, and they say the other companies service sucks.

Most companies just go with the lower cost, but providing good quality service will create loyalty. This is more common with the mid-sized businesses than the larger ones. EVERYTHING is numbers with big corporations.

pm me if anyone needs logo products.

(HULK) · Apr 10, 2014

The website I've been working on building (slowly, for about a year now)... I don't even intend to spend more than 10 or so hours a week on it. Right now its a side thing, but the goal would be for it to be the main thing. If you get the right idea, I don't think it needs to require 70+ hours a week.

KarmaPolice · Apr 10, 2014

Joe Bryant said:
KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.

What things would you bring to the business?

J

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

bosoxs45 · Apr 10, 2014

Scrap Metal business :moneybag:

jwb · Apr 10, 2014

SWC said:
i would try to find some part that everyone needs something that is not very high profile like maybe a top for a plastic shampoo bottle or a metal piece for a walker leg or something and then get the equipment and start making those and do it cheaper than anyone else by a lot and then get all the contracts for the part you can and work like hell to fill them make a little money on each part but do it in super high volume out of your garage or basement do not even have a rented building no costs no employees bam just one piece of equipment and let ups or something do the logistics and bam you are in the green start small and grow take that to the bank bromigos

I sell punctuation. From my basement, no less.

jwb · Apr 10, 2014

KarmaPolice said:
Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.

What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

Joe Bryant · Apr 10, 2014

Quez said:
satch said:

I'm always toying with the idea of starting an online "boutique" musical instrument store offering vintage/rare/classic/hard to find items. I'm semi-addicted to buy/selling/trading gear on craigslist. I'd be in heaven if I could profit doing so. Technically, I have profited doing so, but on a very small, personal scale.

I'd do repairs & restoration myself, and offer a service to find specific items people were looking for, as I also love the searching aspect of it. $10,000 should be plenty to get a cool website up and running and acquire some gear to offer for sale. I'd use ebay, craigslist, and be active on forums featuring Fender, Martin, Gibson, etc. Additional items would be added as acquired.

I know it's not a unique idea by any means, but it would just be a part time thing to do for personal enjoyment and hopefully some profit. Would never get rich, and best case scenario is maybe if I executed it well enough I could grow a decent reputation as a go-to resource for items like this and my "find it for you" service would be popular among those who just don't have the time to scour the internet looking for what they want. Worst case scenario is I end up with a bunch of really cool gear in my basement, which isn't so bad. I'd sell it all eventually, or just keep it. Seems like kind of a no-risk, all reward scenario for me based on my interests.

Click to expand...

You should be able to start up a shopify store pretty easily selling this stuff. This is a perfect idea for a small e-commerce site. You probably don't have many products to add, and it should be easy to keep up with. You just have to take decent pictures of the product, and write some content with keywords. A niche product like this should do well with a good site.

I like this idea Satch. I see you bringing two primary values to a business like this.

1. It's a centralized "hub" where buyers and sellers connect. That's one of the incredible levers the internet makes possible - Easily connecting people that 20 years ago would have had a much harder time connecting. Whether it's dating sites like match.com or rental things like AirbnB, the principle is the same.

2. Curation. eBay already does this in a general sense bringing buyers and sellers together. Where your business could differ is if it became known as you being an expert on the topic. People trusting someone that's an expert like you when they're buying an old violin is going to be radically different than if I were selling an old violin I inherited and knew nothing about it.

The big hurdle for online sales is trust. Once you establish that trust, you'd have a huge advantage in selling items like this.

So if I were trying to start a business like that, I'd first set out to start establishing a reputation as a smart and trustworthy old musical instrument guy. I'm sure there are forums out there. You can have a blog writing content helping people looking to buy / sell an old musical instrument. Start an Instagram feed with cool pictures that would interest the kind of people you're looking to connect. Basically whatever it takes to establish you as a trustworthy expert. Once you have that, connecting the buyers and sellers should follow.

Good luck,

J

Miscellaneous · Apr 10, 2014

jwb said:
KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

I'd like to add a quick comment, too:

Success in business is never really about the idea, it's about the execution. If I had a 'big idea' I wanted advice on, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people the idea. Imagine it's several years ago, and one of the Twitter guys is a FBG. Do you really think it would've mattered if he described the whole idea to us? Do you think someone would have heard the description, dropped everything, and beaten him to the punch?

People who ask you to sign an NDA before they'll tell you their business idea are generally laughed at.

kutta · Apr 10, 2014

Miscellaneous said:
jwb said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

Click to expand...

I'd like to add a quick comment, too:

Success in business is never really about the idea, it's about the execution. If I had a 'big idea' I wanted advice on, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people the idea. Imagine it's several years ago, and one of the Twitter guys is a FBG. Do you really think it would've mattered if he described the whole idea to us? Do you think someone would have heard the description, dropped everything, and beaten him to the punch?

People who ask you to sign an NDA before they'll tell you their business idea are generally laughed at.

I disagree 100%. This is standard practice in business. I have signed literally 100's of NDA's and I have required 100's people to sign them for me too. Ideas are always exchanged, and to think you have a monopoly on the execution is wrong.

In fact, I am exactly 180 degrees opposite from you in this thinking. The idea is the important thing. Anyone can execute it.

jwb · Apr 10, 2014

kutta said:
Miscellaneous said:

jwb said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

Click to expand...

I'd like to add a quick comment, too:

Success in business is never really about the idea, it's about the execution. If I had a 'big idea' I wanted advice on, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people the idea. Imagine it's several years ago, and one of the Twitter guys is a FBG. Do you really think it would've mattered if he described the whole idea to us? Do you think someone would have heard the description, dropped everything, and beaten him to the punch?

People who ask you to sign an NDA before they'll tell you their business idea are generally laughed at.

Click to expand...

I disagree 100%. This is standard practice in business. I have signed literally 100's of NDA's and I have required 100's people to sign them for me too. Ideas are always exchanged, and to think you have a monopoly on the execution is wrong.

In fact, I am exactly 180 degrees opposite from you in this thinking. The idea is the important thing. Anyone can execute it.

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I see them both in my time as a copywriter.

For the garage entrepreneur with nothing but an idea, and no money at all? His NDA request or need for complete secrecy is comical.

For the company that is actually developing something? And has a fully-featured website going, one that obviously cost many thousands, and has several talented people on board? Sure, I'll sign their NDA.

The truth is, most ideas are hardly original. You have nothing until you actually start real development.

Miscellaneous · Apr 10, 2014

jwb said:
kutta said:

Miscellaneous said:

jwb said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

Click to expand...

I'd like to add a quick comment, too:Success in business is never really about the idea, it's about the execution. If I had a 'big idea' I wanted advice on, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people the idea. Imagine it's several years ago, and one of the Twitter guys is a FBG. Do you really think it would've mattered if he described the whole idea to us? Do you think someone would have heard the description, dropped everything, and beaten him to the punch?

People who ask you to sign an NDA before they'll tell you their business idea are generally laughed at.

Click to expand...

I disagree 100%. This is standard practice in business. I have signed literally 100's of NDA's and I have required 100's people to sign them for me too. Ideas are always exchanged, and to think you have a monopoly on the execution is wrong. In fact, I am exactly 180 degrees opposite from you in this thinking. The idea is the important thing. Anyone can execute it.

Click to expand...

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I see them both in my time as a copywriter.

For the garage entrepreneur with nothing but an idea, and no money at all? His NDA request or need for complete secrecy is comical.

For the company that is actually developing something? And has a fully-featured website going, one that obviously cost many thousands, and has several talented people on board? Sure, I'll sign their NDA.

The truth is, most ideas are hardly original. You have nothing until you actually start real development.

This. Basically, if you have to ask vaguely: "what work would go into the project of a website", I'd say you can tell people what your basic concept is. The value of actual advice outweighs the possibility that Joe is going to steal his idea.

Joe Bryant · Apr 10, 2014

Miscellaneous said:
jwb said:

kutta said:

Miscellaneous said:

jwb said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

Click to expand...

I'd like to add a quick comment, too:Success in business is never really about the idea, it's about the execution. If I had a 'big idea' I wanted advice on, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people the idea. Imagine it's several years ago, and one of the Twitter guys is a FBG. Do you really think it would've mattered if he described the whole idea to us? Do you think someone would have heard the description, dropped everything, and beaten him to the punch?

People who ask you to sign an NDA before they'll tell you their business idea are generally laughed at.

Click to expand...

I disagree 100%. This is standard practice in business. I have signed literally 100's of NDA's and I have required 100's people to sign them for me too. Ideas are always exchanged, and to think you have a monopoly on the execution is wrong. In fact, I am exactly 180 degrees opposite from you in this thinking. The idea is the important thing. Anyone can execute it.

Click to expand...

I think you guys are talking about two different things. I see them both in my time as a copywriter.

For the garage entrepreneur with nothing but an idea, and no money at all? His NDA request or need for complete secrecy is comical.

For the company that is actually developing something? And has a fully-featured website going, one that obviously cost many thousands, and has several talented people on board? Sure, I'll sign their NDA.

The truth is, most ideas are hardly original. You have nothing until you actually start real development.

Click to expand...

This. Basically, if you have to ask vaguely: "what work would go into the project of a website", I'd say you can tell people what your basic concept is. The value of actual advice outweighs the possibility that Joe is going to steal his idea.

Agreed.

In most cases, I usually :rolleyes:

at someone asking me to sign a non disclosure. I've seen plenty of these where it seems obvious that way more effort went into the legal document than the idea. You see the idea that was so secret and it's "Really?"

With that said, I've signed them for people. I've never asked anyone to sign one.

The idea or the execution question is fascinating. I will say I lean way more to the execution side. There are zillions of ideas. A tiny fraction are so world changing they have huge power on their own. Executing the idea is where the real work and real value is in my opinion. You need both obviously. But I lean toward execution.

J

xulf · Apr 10, 2014

Anyone mention getting a personal trainer and trying to become a long snapper and/or punter?

Random · Apr 10, 2014

David Dodds said:
$10K is a ton of money actually. Joe and I started FBG with less.

In college I was part of these successful businesses that required less than $10K:

1. Find the highrise building(s) in your hood that have lots of law offices in them. Find the closest popular restaurants near these buildings. Go talk to these restaurants and have them tell you their most popular selling items. You make a flyer that has 3-4 items per each restaurant and list 4-5 restaurants. Law Offices don't like letting their workers go to lunch during big cases because it takes too long to go down the elevator, drive to said destination, order food and come back. You provide delivery of popular food for $3+ cost of item and you can also profit handsomely with sodas (kept in the van parked on the street). Do this in the summertime and kids can be your runners. Knock on some doors. Hand out some fliers and you will soon have a long list of people that will pay you to do this. My friend quit USC because this business became so lucrative for him after killing it for two summers prior.

2. Determine the biggest outdoor events of the summer. Bring coolers and sell water / sodas. We used to hit all the beaches, and make a fortune. Technically a legal issue and you could be harassed by cops, but we would always just move on if questioned.

3. Go to the $1 store. Find 5-10 items household cleaning items that seem worth at least $2 (sponges, scrubbers, etc). Go door to door and sell said items for $2. This works especially well if you have a compelling story. College kid looking to continue my education for instance. About to lose my house because I lost my job type of thing. Old ladies will give you a $20 and not always take the 10 items.

4. Go to conventions (I used to do sportscard shows) with a dolly and a sign saying you are ready to move boxes for them. People will tip well if they had a great show selling things. They are tired and want to head home.

Generally if you want to break away from the MAN and work on your own, there is always a path. And it usually does not require a giant investment of money. Lots of time and sweat equity for sure, but not always a lot of money.

Back to the FBG example. We created FBG. I coded the pages. We hired staff on "credits" where we would pay based on subscriptions sold. We sold ads by hustling up that business, etc. Website businesses can almost always be created / started for less than $10K and lots of sweat equity.

Sounds more like hustlin'.

phatdawg · Apr 10, 2014

Joe Bryant · Apr 10, 2014

KarmaPolice said:
Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.

What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Hi Karma,

It sounds goofy but my thought on this would be to just try it. Throw it out there and see what happens. If you've got a podcast idea, make a podcast on a crappy microphone and your laptop camera. It'll be terrible. And do it again. It'll be less terrible. If you've got some ability or a good idea, it'll start to take shape.

What I wouldn't do is spend 2 years getting everything lined up and then try to make a perfect podcast on your first go. It's likely something else will be the equal of what a podcast was back when you got the idea and you're behind again.

When you're starting out, I'm a big believer in doing things badly vs not doing them at all. It's different when you get going. If Footballguys wanted to do Futbolguys.com soccer, it would have to be pretty good from the start as there would be some expectation based on Footballguys. But the beauty of starting from scratch is nobody notices if you're awful at first. Get out and try it.

I can't stress this enough. You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you don't take. It's trite and cliched but true. Just try stuff. Fail often. Learn what you're good at. Try more stuff. Over and over and over.

J

Joe Bryant · Apr 10, 2014

Random said:
David Dodds said:

$10K is a ton of money actually. Joe and I started FBG with less.

In college I was part of these successful businesses that required less than $10K:

1. Find the highrise building(s) in your hood that have lots of law offices in them. Find the closest popular restaurants near these buildings. Go talk to these restaurants and have them tell you their most popular selling items. You make a flyer that has 3-4 items per each restaurant and list 4-5 restaurants. Law Offices don't like letting their workers go to lunch during big cases because it takes too long to go down the elevator, drive to said destination, order food and come back. You provide delivery of popular food for $3+ cost of item and you can also profit handsomely with sodas (kept in the van parked on the street). Do this in the summertime and kids can be your runners. Knock on some doors. Hand out some fliers and you will soon have a long list of people that will pay you to do this. My friend quit USC because this business became so lucrative for him after killing it for two summers prior.

2. Determine the biggest outdoor events of the summer. Bring coolers and sell water / sodas. We used to hit all the beaches, and make a fortune. Technically a legal issue and you could be harassed by cops, but we would always just move on if questioned.

3. Go to the $1 store. Find 5-10 items household cleaning items that seem worth at least $2 (sponges, scrubbers, etc). Go door to door and sell said items for $2. This works especially well if you have a compelling story. College kid looking to continue my education for instance. About to lose my house because I lost my job type of thing. Old ladies will give you a $20 and not always take the 10 items.

4. Go to conventions (I used to do sportscard shows) with a dolly and a sign saying you are ready to move boxes for them. People will tip well if they had a great show selling things. They are tired and want to head home.

Generally if you want to break away from the MAN and work on your own, there is always a path. And it usually does not require a giant investment of money. Lots of time and sweat equity for sure, but not always a lot of money.

Back to the FBG example. We created FBG. I coded the pages. We hired staff on "credits" where we would pay based on subscriptions sold. We sold ads by hustling up that business, etc. Website businesses can almost always be created / started for less than $10K and lots of sweat equity.

Click to expand...

Sounds more like hustlin'.

Yes. That's exactly what I mean when I say the execution is more important than the idea.

J

Abraham · Apr 10, 2014

KarmaPolice said:
Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.

What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

I've been a non-technical cofounder or advisor to 4 different tech startups. There are a couple universal truths: the idea is not all that valuable...everyone is/knows an idea guy. And software/web startups need three things to succeed. They are, in order of priority: technical ability/expertise, customers, and cash. If you aren't technical and don't bring the seed money, then you need to bring customers. Go to a Ruby or Python meet up and tell someone you have an awesome idea for a website. They will roll their eyes. Tell them you have an awesome idea for a website and a signed contract for your first customer worth 100k a year and they will want to talk. Same thing if you have an idea and a check for 50k to build it. But if you aren't technical then having an idea is nowhere near enough to get you going.

sublimeone · Apr 10, 2014

Abraham said:
KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.

What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

I've been a non-technical cofounder or advisor to 4 different tech startups. There are a couple universal truths: the idea is not all that valuable...everyone is/knows an idea guy. And software/web startups need three things to succeed. They are, in order of priority: technical ability/expertise, customers, and cash. If you aren't technical and don't bring the seed money, then you need to bring customers. Go to a Ruby or Python meet up and tell someone you have an awesome idea for a website. They will roll their eyes. Tell them you have an awesome idea for a website and a signed contract for your first customer worth 100k a year and they will want to talk. Same thing if you have an idea and a check for 50k to build it. But if you aren't technical then having an idea is nowhere near enough to get you going.

To add to this, I have seen a couple non-technical friends get swindled by programmers. They think they have a great idea, draw up wireframes and then contract with a programmer/programming company. They get ripped off because they have no idea what they are looking at. Programmers are notorious for procrastinating and if you can't keep them on track you will get ripped off.

slackjawedyokel · Apr 10, 2014

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Quez · Apr 10, 2014

xulf said:
Anyone mention getting a personal trainer and trying to become a long snapper and/or punter?

I read this story about a local girl who is a knuckleball pitcher. She was trained by Phil Neikro and pitches for the boys high school team. Apparently, it's not so much about strength or athletic ability, and it took her 2 years to master. I think with enough dedication someone could probably figure out how to be a successful knuckleball pitcher.

jwb · Apr 10, 2014

speaking of idea vs execution, I remember in 1996 or so, on a long-gone gaming messageboard, a few of us were thinking "wow, wouldn't it be great to kind of combine a personal website with a messageboard with chat - kind of a page that's "you" that other people can comment on, and see your pictures, and comment on comments, and such".

Then we went back to doing whatever we did. We essentially described MySpace/Facebook to a T. And I'll bet 10,000 other people had the same notion too.

So few ideas are actually revolutionary. What is revolutionary is the person who says "yea, that's a great idea" and gets to work on it and actually produces something tangible.

Abraham · Apr 10, 2014

sublimeone said:
Abraham said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

I've been a non-technical cofounder or advisor to 4 different tech startups. There are a couple universal truths: the idea is not all that valuable...everyone is/knows an idea guy. And software/web startups need three things to succeed. They are, in order of priority: technical ability/expertise, customers, and cash. If you aren't technical and don't bring the seed money, then you need to bring customers. Go to a Ruby or Python meet up and tell someone you have an awesome idea for a website. They will roll their eyes. Tell them you have an awesome idea for a website and a signed contract for your first customer worth 100k a year and they will want to talk. Same thing if you have an idea and a check for 50k to build it. But if you aren't technical then having an idea is nowhere near enough to get you going.

Click to expand...

Abraham said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

I've been a non-technical cofounder or advisor to 4 different tech startups. There are a couple universal truths: the idea is not all that valuable...everyone is/knows an idea guy. And software/web startups need three things to succeed. They are, in order of priority: technical ability/expertise, customers, and cash. If you aren't technical and don't bring the seed money, then you need to bring customers. Go to a Ruby or Python meet up and tell someone you have an awesome idea for a website. They will roll their eyes. Tell them you have an awesome idea for a website and a signed contract for your first customer worth 100k a year and they will want to talk. Same thing if you have an idea and a check for 50k to build it. But if you aren't technical then having an idea is nowhere near enough to get you going.

Click to expand...

To add to this, I have seen a couple non-technical friends get swindled by programmers. They think they have a great idea, draw up wireframes and then contract with a programmer/programming company. They get ripped off because they have no idea what they are looking at. Programmers are notorious for procrastinating and if you can't keep them on track you will get ripped off.

It's hard even if you do know what you are looking at. This lends itself well to the point about sharing ideas freely or using an NDA. No one will ever understand your idea like you do. They may get the scope, purpose, business development plan, but the exact way you have it constructed in your head is almost impossible.

datonn · Apr 10, 2014

slackjawedyokel said:
I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:

If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Abraham · Apr 10, 2014

jwb said:
speaking of idea vs execution, I remember in 1996 or so, on a long-gone gaming messageboard, a few of us were thinking "wow, wouldn't it be great to kind of combine a personal website with a messageboard with chat - kind of a page that's "you" that other people can comment on, and see your pictures, and comment on comments, and such".

Then we went back to doing whatever we did. We essentially described MySpace/Facebook to a T. And I'll bet 10,000 other people had the same notion too.

So few ideas are actually revolutionary. What is revolutionary is the person who says "yea, that's a great idea" and gets to work on it and actually produces something tangible.

I have a notebook full of ideas that turned in to something by someone else. Twitter, Google plus, I thought of them all. And so did thousands of other people. We are all in the same texhnisphere and all think the same way "hey, wouldn't it be cool if this did this too?" Technology is almost entirely iterative, especially as it relates to the consumer segment.

Abraham · Apr 10, 2014

datonn said:
slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

slackjawedyokel · Apr 10, 2014

Abraham said:
datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

And this is my thought... I have the idea and have really dug into the potential opportunity. I now need to make it happen.

NCCommish · Apr 10, 2014

kutta said:
Miscellaneous said:

jwb said:

KarmaPolice said:

Joe Bryant said:

KarmaPolice said:

what if you think you have a good website idea but know jack and #### about computers/programming?

Click to expand...

You need a partner that does know jack about computers and programming.What things would you bring to the business?

J

Click to expand...

That's the thing, Joe. I honestly don't even know enough about what it takes to give a great answer to that. Since I don't know a thing about programming, etc it would be more on the lines of start up equipment, the basic idea/vision, grunt work as far as loading data/answering questions/contacting potential marketing partners, stuff on those lines.

A lot of my question came from just sitting with a buddy the other day BSing and joking that everybody has to know somebody that has a great idea, but just don't know how to or have the resources to turn that idea into something. Everybody has a business idea, screenplay, podcast they'd like to do, stuff like that (I have a podcast idea I'd love to try to, but what do I do with that?). Just really interested in what some of these things do require to give them a serious go.

Click to expand...

It's a tough question to answer definitively, and (not to sound arrogant), it's what separates entrepreneurs from everyone else.

For some businesses, it's going door to door. For others, it's starting a blog or podcast, being interesting enough for people to read/listen to, and promoting it everywhere. For others, it's going to the trade show and talking to everyone and handing out your stuff.

Not to say "movies/books = truth", but look at any movie about Steve Jobs... whether it's the recent one or Pirates of Silicone Valley, and you'll see him schlepping those crude computers around and getting laughed at, etc. That's very telling, because THAT'S the answer to the bolded. For every businesses it's different, but the answer is in actually running with the idea, even if you don't quite know the direction to run. The longer you run, the clearer the path becomes.

You have an idea for a website. Some way, some how, get the website done. Whether you find a partner as hungry as you, or you hire someone to make what you are envisioning - but somehow, get it done. There is no "right" way to go about it. If you are waiting for the roadmap, you'll wait forever.

Click to expand...

I'd like to add a quick comment, too:

Success in business is never really about the idea, it's about the execution. If I had a 'big idea' I wanted advice on, I wouldn't hesitate to tell people the idea. Imagine it's several years ago, and one of the Twitter guys is a FBG. Do you really think it would've mattered if he described the whole idea to us? Do you think someone would have heard the description, dropped everything, and beaten him to the punch?

People who ask you to sign an NDA before they'll tell you their business idea are generally laughed at.

Click to expand...

I disagree 100%. This is standard practice in business. I have signed literally 100's of NDA's and I have required 100's people to sign them for me too. Ideas are always exchanged, and to think you have a monopoly on the execution is wrong.

In fact, I am exactly 180 degrees opposite from you in this thinking. The idea is the important thing. Anyone can execute it.

Yep

datonn · Apr 10, 2014

Abraham said:
datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

^ I obviously disagree...as ideas are cheap. Execution is where $$$ is made, and what slackjawedyokel was talking about was executing the concept on his own, with limited experience/skills in web development. IMHO.

FWIW, I've been sitting on an idea for 7-8 years now that could literally change the planet. Anyone sharing any content over electronic devices could witness a 30-60% reduction in the time/bandwidth it takes to deliver said content on to user devices. Proven...to the likes of Google, Microsoft, Adobe, and others. But to "execute" the idea, I need upwards of $150,000-$250,000 to do it right. About $130,000-$230,000 more than I'd have lying around waiting to be burned/invested, LOL. So I tried it the slackjawedyokel way (the way that you say is "correct," FWIW). I built my own website, I marketed my own products. And I made THOUSANDS of dollars. As in less than $10,000 over a couple years...for my 8-10 hours/week of hobby job. :groan:

I'm giving it another shot right now though. Only this time, I've learned my lessons...and I'm bringing in the right developers and brand/identity consultants to launch it with a BANG. I had to negotiate a deal where I basically help sell some of their services to my main venture's clients in exchange for discounted dev hours to build that product and site/marketing properly, because I don't have anywhere near $150,000-$250,000 lying around! But if/when I can get things launched CORRECTLY (not me spending a week in WordPress), it could be interesting to watch.

Again, FWIW. Not saying I've got it all figured out...not hardly! But I learned from my mistakes the first time around, and my advice to slackjawedyokel is to basically learn from my mistakes as well...so he doesn't have to be in the position I've been in...6-7 years later, still sitting on a game-changer of an idea, only with little/nothing to $how for it.

Abraham · Apr 10, 2014

slackjawedyokel said:
Abraham said:

datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

Click to expand...

And this is my thought... I have the idea and have really dug into the potential opportunity. I now need to make it happen.

How much is it worth? Seriously, how much of the market and for how much money in the next 10 years if you had the product as you imagined?

Are you sure?

If the number is significant, or your driving reason is something other than money but similarly important to you, what are you waiting for? Every day you wait is a day that someone else with the same idea is making progress to beat you. And they are closer to the money than you are.

sublimeone · Apr 10, 2014

datonn said:
Abraham said:

datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

Click to expand...

^ I obviously disagree...as ideas are cheap. Execution is where $$$ is made, and what slackjawedyokel was talking about was executing the concept on his own, with limited experience/skills in web development. IMHO.

FWIW, I've been sitting on an idea for 7-8 years now that could literally change the planet. Anyone sharing any content over electronic devices could witness a 30-60% reduction in the time/bandwidth it takes to deliver said content on to user devices. Proven...to the likes of Google, Microsoft, Adobe, and others. But to "execute" the idea, I need upwards of $150,000-$250,000 to do it right. About $130,000-$230,000 more than I'd have lying around waiting to be burned/invested, LOL. So I tried it the slackjawedyokel way (the way that you say is "correct," FWIW). I built my own website, I marketed my own products. And I made THOUSANDS of dollars. As in less than $10,000 over a couple years...for my 8-10 hours/week of hobby job.

I'm giving it another shot right now though. Only this time, I've learned my lessons...and I'm bringing in the right developers and brand/identity consultants to launch it with a BANG. I had to negotiate a deal where I basically help sell some of their services to my main venture's clients in exchange for discounted dev hours to build that product and site/marketing properly, because I don't have anywhere near $150,000-$250,000 lying around! But if/when I can get things launched CORRECTLY (not me spending a week in WordPress), it could be interesting to watch.

Again, FWIW. Not saying I've got it all figured out...not hardly! But I learned from my mistakes the first time around, and my advice to slackjawedyokel is to basically learn from my mistakes as well...so he doesn't have to be in the position I've been in...6-7 years later, still sitting on a game-changer of an idea, only with little/nothing to $how for it.

have you developed an algorithm that allows you to search massive amounts of compressed files at lighting quick speeds?

datonn · Apr 10, 2014

sublimeone said:
have you developed an algorithm that allows you to search massive amounts of compressed files at lighting quick speeds?

No sir...that's already been done.

Courtjester · Apr 10, 2014

For the past few months I have been transferring 20 years of family movies from different media and I am storing them on a server, but I also plan to burn a redundant copy on Blu-Rays. Needless to say I have had to buy video cards and adaptors to get the media from VHS and VHSc tapes into MP4 form--as well as several software upgrades.

So this got me tossing around the idea of opening a small video-transfer service at my house. I know when my brother paid to have some older tapes converted at a professional location, they charged him through the nose and the results were pretty sub-par. I don't know if this is a viable idea or not, but I see that Walmart just created a service like this. They had big signs posted at their front door advertising this new service just last weekend.

I already have most of the equipment I need, so startup costs would be small. I don't know. Like an earlier poster mentioned, people are passionate about their children and pets, and I think you could feed off fear that VHS tapes have a shelf life of 20 years (at best) do you want to have your memories fade away or do you want them forever in a computer file or even on a physical Blu Ray Disc?

Again not sure if it is a good idea. Just looking to get some extra scratch so I can help out my daughter plan for college.

Joe T · Apr 10, 2014

Abraham said:
datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

Just want to add Bleacher Report to your list. How that awful site is worth $100m still amazes me. Also, I thought the founders of Groupon tried like a dozen other sites before figuring out / working on groupon.

The key really is to start. Waiting because you don't have $10k or because you don't know how to build a website is making an excuse or just being lazy. You don't really need either to start.

And whatever you start on will very likely change along the way. And you will learn a ton just from starting.

NCCommish · Apr 10, 2014

Courtjester said:
For the past few months I have been transferring 20 years of family movies from different media and I am storing them on a server, but I also plan to burn a redundant copy on Blu-Rays. Needless to say I have had to buy video cards and adaptors to get the media from VHS and VHSc tapes into MP4 form--as well as several software upgrades.

So this got me tossing around the idea of opening a small video-transfer service at my house. I know when my brother paid to have some older tapes converted at a professional location, they charged him through the nose and the results were pretty sub-par. I don't know if this is a viable idea or not, but I see that Walmart just created a service like this. They had big signs posted at their front door advertising this new service just last weekend.

I already have most of the equipment I need, so startup costs would be small. I don't know. Like an earlier poster mentioned, people are passionate about their children and pets, and I think you could feed off fear that VHS tapes have a shelf life of 20 years (at best) do you want to have your memories fade away or do you want them forever in a computer file or even on a physical Blu Ray Disc?

Again not sure if it is a good idea. Just looking to get some extra scratch so I can help out my daughter plan for college.

I don't know how lucrative it is but several small companies around here seem to do well enough to keep the doors open. If there isn't much competition you could probably do alright.

Abraham · Apr 10, 2014

Great posting.

slackjawedyokel · Apr 10, 2014

Abraham said:
slackjawedyokel said:

Abraham said:

datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

Click to expand...

And this is my thought... I have the idea and have really dug into the potential opportunity. I now need to make it happen.

Click to expand...

How much is it worth? Seriously, how much of the market and for how much money in the next 10 years if you had the product as you imagined? Are you sure?

If the number is significant, or your driving reason is something other than money but similarly important to you, what are you waiting for? Every day you wait is a day that someone else with the same idea is making progress to beat you. And they are closer to the money than you are.

That's the truth. While the money is not guaranteed to be substantial, it has the potential to be an industry linchpin and needs to exist. There is a demand, though not actualized yet. This thread has been fantastic.

jwb · Apr 10, 2014

Joe T said:
Abraham said:

datonn said:

slackjawedyokel said:

I agree that execution is key. In my case, I have floated an idea around for 2 years now for a website but have very little technical knowledge to build it. I'm either needing to enroll in a few web design courses or pay someone to help.

Click to expand...

This is going to sound harsh...but PLEASE don't take it that way. That said:If you have a GREAT idea, but you think it can be pulled off and turned into a money-maker as the result of you enrolling in a few web design courses?! It's not a great idea.

Starting a "dot-com" is easy! An evening or two in WordPress, and you're in business. Starting a "dot-com" that will stand out from the ba-zillons of other dot-coms that are out there, peddling their wares to anyone they can get to land on their home page? HARD. Super-HARD! And if you're starting almost from zero in your web development skills...thinking you'll be able to stand out from the noise, enrolling in a couple of web design courses? 99% chance that it's going to severely underwhelm and/or not end well.

Know what you know and don't know, and for what you don't know, find people to help you who do. It costs a little (or a lot) more up-front. But not as much as it'll cost you in wasted time and energy, not to mention lost earnings from not being able to stand out from the noise without help.

Click to expand...

The bolded is remarkably untrue. digg, groupon, Instagram, Flickr..all created by people with virtually zero technical ability. Those sites and many other were created by people who built a crude version of what they were after and hustled to find users.

Click to expand...

Just want to add Bleacher Report to your list. How that awful site is worth $100m still amazes me. Also, I thought the founders of Groupon tried like a dozen other sites before figuring out / working on groupon.

The key really is to start. Waiting because you don't have $10k or because you don't know how to build a website is making an excuse or just being lazy. You don't really need either to start.

And whatever you start on will very likely change along the way. And you will learn a ton just from starting.

Well, for some businesses, you *do* need a website, as that's a key component of the business. For me, my website is everything.

I do agree you have to start. And a few thousand should not stand in the way. Joe mentioned earlier about avoiding debt, but I'll disagree a bit on that and say a "little" debt to get going is ok. Putting 5k on your credit card to get a website running, some marketing, some PPC advertising, some collateral printed, etc - that's hardly company-crippling debt. (and I don't think that's the kind of debt J was talking about anyway).

In fact, I'd go as far to say that if you don't have the stones to put 5k on your CC to get going, you probably don't have what it takes.

Random · Apr 10, 2014

Joe Bryant said:
Hi Karma,

It sounds goofy but my thought on this would be to just try it. Throw it out there and see what happens. If you've got a podcast idea, make a podcast on a crappy microphone and your laptop camera. It'll be terrible. And do it again. It'll be less terrible. If you've got some ability or a good idea, it'll start to take shape.

What I wouldn't do is spend 2 years getting everything lined up and then try to make a perfect podcast on your first go. It's likely something else will be the equal of what a podcast was back when you got the idea and you're behind again.

When you're starting out, I'm a big believer in doing things badly vs not doing them at all. It's different when you get going. If Footballguys wanted to do Futbolguys.com soccer, it would have to be pretty good from the start as there would be some expectation based on Footballguys. But the beauty of starting from scratch is nobody notices if you're awful at first. Get out and try it.

I can't stress this enough. You're guaranteed to miss 100% of the shots you don't take. It's trite and cliched but true. Just try stuff. Fail often. Learn what you're good at. Try more stuff. Over and over and over.

J

Such an awesome post. Our first (RE) flip we had no idea what we were doing. As a matter of fact we did more things wrong than we did right. In the end, we still made a little money. But the lessons were invaluable.

Jump in, ask questions along the way, and figure it out. Don't try to have every answer before you start. Too many "what ifs".

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