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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun***


Doctor Detroit

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22 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Also - what are they waiting for on Jake Rogers? There's no way he'd be worse than what they are rolling out there behind the plate now.

I think they are content to just keep losing this season and let the young guys stay in Triple  and Double A to let them continue to develop and avoid the start of their service time clock.  They are looking at 2021 as the year when the top prospects are all finally up and they start making a move back up the standings.  I am thinking they bring up Rogers, Cameron and Parades next season and then all of the pitchers are up in 2021.  I don't see a lot of hitting help from the minors for the foreseeable future - that is why I hope Avila can get some other options through making trades in the next few days.  I am happy to see Derek Hill actually have a good season in Erie maybe there is still hope for him yet.  

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13 minutes ago, skillz said:

I think they are content to just keep losing this season and let the young guys stay in Triple  and Double A to let them continue to develop and avoid the start of their service time clock.  They are looking at 2021 as the year when the top prospects are all finally up and they start making a move back up the standings.  I am thinking they bring up Rogers, Cameron and Parades next season and then all of the pitchers are up in 2021.  I don't see a lot of hitting help from the minors for the foreseeable future - that is why I hope Avila can get some other options through making trades in the next few days.  I am happy to see Derek Hill actually have a good season in Erie maybe there is still hope for him yet.  

 

I mean - I can sort of understand that with everyone. But I'm not sure I buy the argument with Rogers.

1) He's the best catcher they have in the organization, regardless of level.

2) He's 24. Its not like he's 19. 

I read that even if they brought him up now, they'd have him under control until he's 30. I know Rogers is a decent prospect, but are we really worried about how much we can save on Jake Rogers's age 30 contract? Come on. That's pretty absurd.

Its time.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/9/2019 at 7:51 PM, whoknew said:

Jake Rogers just hit his 3rd HR in 9 games. 

I was hoping he could be a .780-.800 OPS guys with 17-20 HRs. That, combined with his defense behind the plate, is a really, really good player.

Things are looking good for that so far.

 

This post didn't age well.

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4 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

I think this Castellanos trade just might work out. He has already contributed 1.5 WAR, which is what Schwarber and Almora have combined for this season. 

There is no doubt Nick can hit but you have to watch him in the outfield over a period of time to appreciate how bad he is. Nicks future is 1B or DH.

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1 hour ago, Da Guru said:

There is no doubt Nick can hit but you have to watch him in the outfield over a period of time to appreciate how bad he is. Nicks future is 1B or DH.

Joe Maddon discussed this, and he believes that a lot of Castellano's problems came from poor positioning--which seemed like a subtle dig at the Detroit analytics department.

The Cubs have an office unit devoted solely to "Run Prevention". They keep the particulars secret, but the belief is they track what and where every opposing batter hits the ball on every conceivable pitch, and they use that info to position the outfielders. 

Castellano has not been noticeable in the field so far, which is a good sign.

   

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8 hours ago, Encyclopedia Brown said:

Joe Maddon discussed this, and he believes that a lot of Castellano's problems came from poor positioning--which seemed like a subtle dig at the Detroit analytics department.

The Cubs have an office unit devoted solely to "Run Prevention". They keep the particulars secret, but the belief is they track what and where every opposing batter hits the ball on every conceivable pitch, and they use that info to position the outfielders. 

Castellano has not been noticeable in the field so far, which is a good sign.

   

Do you think they are interested in signing him to a long term deal after the season?

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42 minutes ago, Da Guru said:

Cost?  Boras already talking north of 100 million  With Heyward on the books forever and impending new deals for Bryant, Baez and Conteros in the near future.

Heyward isn't exactly a bat you want starting in a corner. The Cubs have drained their farm, so they will need to go to the market for OF3. It'd be incredibly silly for a big market team to conduct themselves in such a manner then penny pinch when it comes to re-signing their own. If they like another FA OF at whatever price point more than Castellanos then by all means though.

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7 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Heyward isn't exactly a bat you want starting in a corner. The Cubs have drained their farm, so they will need to go to the market for OF3. It'd be incredibly silly for a big market team to conduct themselves in such a manner then penny pinch when it comes to re-signing their own. If they like another FA OF at whatever price point more than Castellanos then by all means though.

If you look at Heyward's career stats he was very fortunate to get that deal from the Cubs as he is basically a .260 or lower hitter, 15-18 HR, 50-60 RBI, 10-15 SB guy.  Other than a career high of 27HR 5-6 years ago he is always around 12-18.  I think the Cubs thought playing in Wrigley he would blossom into a 30-100 type of player but it never has happened.  I think he still has 4 years left after this season on his contract.

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I am not a fan of the team looking to extend Gardenhire beyond 2020.  I understand he doesn't have a lot of talent to work with and expectations for 2019 were low but overall the prospects seem to have regressed after coming up to the major league team, the team doesn't play with a lot of passion, and the players still make a ton of mental mistakes.  Leyland would have gotten on their case for certain things while the most Gardenhire can muster is to get periodically ejected from a game.  With the Erie group coming up by 2021 it would be nice to turn the page from Gardenhire and get another manager those players can grow with in 2021 and beyond. 

I don't know why they don't let the season play out and then inquire into Joe Girardi or see if the Cubs retain Maddon.  Tampa and Oakland seem to get a lot out of their squads yet the Tigers are going to be content with Gardenhire leading them to the worst record in the league and reward him with an extension for doing so.  We are definitely not in the Mike Ilitch era any longer...

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20 minutes ago, skillz said:

I am not a fan of the team looking to extend Gardenhire beyond 2020.  I understand he doesn't have a lot of talent to work with and expectations for 2019 were low but overall the prospects seem to have regressed after coming up to the major league team, the team doesn't play with a lot of passion, and the players still make a ton of mental mistakes.  Leyland would have gotten on their case for certain things while the most Gardenhire can muster is to get periodically ejected from a game.  With the Erie group coming up by 2021 it would be nice to turn the page from Gardenhire and get another manager those players can grow with in 2021 and beyond. 

I don't know why they don't let the season play out and then inquire into Joe Girardi or see if the Cubs retain Maddon.  Tampa and Oakland seem to get a lot out of their squads yet the Tigers are going to be content with Gardenhire leading them to the worst record in the league and reward him with an extension for doing so.  We are definitely not in the Mike Ilitch era any longer...

Dear lord why would either of them think about doing this to themselves.

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An extension avoids making Gardenhire a lame duck next year.  He can still be fired after 2020 and it'll cost the organization a couple of million as a parting gift.

If he hasn't lost the clubhouse or the front office, you might as well keep him on another year or two until more pieces are in place.  It's not like the talent on the field is underachieving now.

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Yes, sounds like Torkelson is the consensus for #1 pick at this point.  It will be nice to get a solid college bat into the farm system.  Riley Greene really struggled at West Michigan to end the season so I suspect he starts there to start next season unless he has a great Spring Training.  No need to rush him since he just turned 19 last week. 

I see the Angels came to their senses and realized Ausmus is in over his head as a MLB manager and decided to cut bait after only one season. 

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

Very surprised they are bringing back the entire coaching staff. I don't get it at all. 

They are moving people around in their coaching jobs.

Deck chairs. Titanic.

Meh, doesn't matter. Look at the roster. A rotation of Boyd-Zimmerman-Turnbull-Norris-misc journeyman until the young guys start getting called up. Zero bats with an OPS> 750. This team wasn't winning last year nor will they next year no matter who is pulling the strings.

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2 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

Meh, doesn't matter. Look at the roster. A rotation of Boyd-Zimmerman-Turnbull-Norris-misc journeyman until the young guys start getting called up. Zero bats with an OPS> 750. This team wasn't winning last year nor will they next year no matter who is pulling the strings.

 

I hear you. I just don't see much, if any, improvement/development from the position players. But that's organization wide. Almost everyone had a disappointing season this year.

 

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On ‎9‎/‎17‎/‎2019 at 6:17 PM, Eephus said:

An extension avoids making Gardenhire a lame duck next year.  He can still be fired after 2020 and it'll cost the organization a couple of million as a parting gift.

If he hasn't lost the clubhouse or the front office, you might as well keep him on another year or two until more pieces are in place.  It's not like the talent on the field is underachieving now.

I don`t get the "Lame Duck" thing on a team like this.   Every player on the Tigers are playing for their MLB careers even if Donald Duck is the manager.

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I'm not intimately familiar with the state of Detroit's 40 man roster but I'm surprised that the Tigers didn't give more players a look at the major league level this season.  The Tigers only used 38 different players which tied them for second least (Houston only used 36).  A losing season is one thing but a lost season is worse. 

The Giants had 64 different players make MLB appearances this year.  Their 40 man roster churn was hard to follow sometimes but they were able to find some potential keepers.  40 man roster slots are a valuable commodity in the current game and maximizing them is critical to a rebuild.

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23 minutes ago, Eephus said:

The Giants had 64 different players make MLB appearances this year.  Their 40 man roster churn was hard to follow sometimes but they were able to find some potential keepers.  40 man roster slots are a valuable commodity in the current game and maximizing them is critical to a rebuild.

I don’t think the Tigers caught on to this 

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48 minutes ago, Eephus said:

I'm not intimately familiar with the state of Detroit's 40 man roster but I'm surprised that the Tigers didn't give more players a look at the major league level this season.  The Tigers only used 38 different players which tied them for second least (Houston only used 36).  A losing season is one thing but a lost season is worse. 

The Giants had 64 different players make MLB appearances this year.  Their 40 man roster churn was hard to follow sometimes but they were able to find some potential keepers.  40 man roster slots are a valuable commodity in the current game and maximizing them is critical to a rebuild.

This contributed to me completely checking out. It told me that 2020 is the beginning of the rebuild in their minds. If they're punting 2019 then so am I. But this is also why I have no opinion on retaining the staff. If management is tanking then there is nothing to assess with the coaching staff.

Now, should they have operated in this manner? Different issue. And I'm not sure how I feel about it.

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10 minutes ago, MAC_32 said:

This contributed to me completely checking out. It told me that 2020 is the beginning of the rebuild in their minds. If they're punting 2019 then so am I. But this is also why I have no opinion on retaining the staff. If management is tanking then there is nothing to assess with the coaching staff.

Now, should they have operated in this manner? Different issue. And I'm not sure how I feel about it.

The Tigers have two very bad contracts but that's neither uncommon or justification to stand pat until they're off the books.  I admit I approach this from a fantasy player's perspective but every day is an opportunity to improve the talent on your roster.  There's a natural tendency to get attached to your own players but there's no excuse when better ones are available on the waiver wire or via DFA.

I don't follow this team closely so correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like they didn't bring in many MLB players from other organizations.  Their 2019 "breakouts" (Lugo, Castro, Alexander) were all from within the system. 

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2 minutes ago, Eephus said:

The Tigers have two very bad contracts but that's neither uncommon or justification to stand pat until they're off the books.  I admit I approach this from a fantasy player's perspective but every day is an opportunity to improve the talent on your roster.  There's a natural tendency to get attached to your own players but there's no excuse when better ones are available on the waiver wire or via DFA.

I don't follow this team closely so correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like they didn't bring in many MLB players from other organizations.  Their 2019 "breakouts" (Lugo, Castro, Alexander) were all from within the system. 

...and 'breakouts' is about right. Cause none of them were any good. I saw what you saw, which is why I said to hell with this sometime in spring. I don't know how to operate without end of roster churn. How can a bad MLB team operate without it though? They can rope me back, but at this point I need hooked. 

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One piece of collateral damage from 47-114 is I think it depresses the trade value of their only positional surplus.  Their three top starters made 91 starts with a fungible ERA+ and FIP better than ERA but they all have dismal W-L records.  Their MLB-ready prospects are mostly pitchers as well.  I know that W-L doesn't matter much in the grand scheme of things but when offering a guy who went 3-17, you're not dealing from a position of strength. 

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On 10/1/2019 at 1:16 PM, MAC_32 said:

Meh, doesn't matter. Look at the roster. A rotation of Boyd-Zimmerman-Turnbull-Norris-misc journeyman until the young guys start getting called up. Zero bats with an OPS> 750. This team wasn't winning last year nor will they next year no matter who is pulling the strings.

When’s Fulmer back?

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10 minutes ago, Dan Lambskin said:

When’s Fulmer back?

TJ rehab varies, but it's typically more than a year. Hope he's back sometime in summer, that he's not rushed, and that he works out any of the inevitable hiccups in 2020 so that he's all systems go 2021. 

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