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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun***


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The whole Ausmus rookie thing is what we've known from the day he was hired. Dombrowski can't criticize him without taking the blame for putting him in that position. So of course he's going to say he did a good job, and of course he should get better.

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Went to Detroit over the weekend, beautiful park you guys have there. We moved around a bit and the site lines are pretty great all the way around. Coming from Fenway anything is better but yours were

Mike Illitch. RIP.  Great, great owner. 

May seem like a homer or shtick or whatever, but that looked like a future Ace playing with a really bad  team around him.   I know Goodrum is a fill at SS for 2020, but he probably cost Mize a

Listened to Dombrowski`s year end presser. Said Ausmus did a great job and will only get better next year. :confused: Was asked if he regretted trading Doug Fister and he said no that starting pitching was not the teams problem, then went on to say the Tigers were forced to trade for Price because Verlander is not the same Verlander. (If so why start him in game 2 then?) Joe Nathan will again start the season as closer with a shorter leash.

Said the Tigers will have a high payroll again next season looking to add 2 OFs one who is a CF. A left handed bat and of course bullpen help.

He was a rookie manager, safe to assume he gets better.

How hard a concept is that to understand? oof

Understand that he can only get better. The "great" statement is what I don`t understand. Thought Ausmus did an average job at best and mishandled the bullpen and cost the team at least one more home playoff game. For a team in a "win now" we had a manager that was getting on the job training.

Ok, please read what you wrote before the season and then tell me what changed? I'll hang up and listen.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=497712&p=16152796

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Listened to Dombrowski`s year end presser. Said Ausmus did a great job and will only get better next year. :confused: Was asked if he regretted trading Doug Fister and he said no that starting pitching was not the teams problem, then went on to say the Tigers were forced to trade for Price because Verlander is not the same Verlander. (If so why start him in game 2 then?) Joe Nathan will again start the season as closer with a shorter leash.

Said the Tigers will have a high payroll again next season looking to add 2 OFs one who is a CF. A left handed bat and of course bullpen help.

He was a rookie manager, safe to assume he gets better.

How hard a concept is that to understand? oof

Understand that he can only get better. The "great" statement is what I don`t understand. Thought Ausmus did an average job at best and mishandled the bullpen and cost the team at least one more home playoff game. For a team in a "win now" we had a manager that was getting on the job training.

Ok, please read what you wrote before the season and then tell me what changed? I'll hang up and listen.

http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=497712&p=16152796

That was after he was already hired and I don`t think he did a great job. Does not matter what I wanted or predicted but the end result. I honestly thought it was a good move at the time reading the information that we all did. I thought Ausmus was going to be more open minded, willing to change things game by game if needed. Ausmus was as stubborn as Leyland and went down with the ship.

Sometimes watching the games it seemed like Gene Lamont was managing the games. Many times it looked like Ausmus was acting more like a player/friend and did not seem totally in charge. I could be wrong but I went to 20 games and watched probably 100 games.

Edited by Da Guru
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You're probably not wrong at all but as I warned prior to the season, a rookie manager presents its own set of challenges. Honestly Ausmus leading the team that was so flawed to another AL Central crown, has to give him a few positive points. Look at what other rookie managers do, it's not a lot parades and clubhouse celebrations. He'll be better in year two, how much better is TBD and largely based on what kind of roster he's given. Tigers bullpen was enough for this team to miss the playoffs, but they didn't.

And I don't love Ausmus at all. I just think he's really being blamed for things well out of his control at this point.

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You're probably not wrong at all but as I warned prior to the season, a rookie manager presents its own set of challenges. Honestly Ausmus leading the team that was so flawed to another AL Central crown, has to give him a few positive points. Look at what other rookie managers do, it's not a lot parades and clubhouse celebrations. He'll be better in year two, how much better is TBD and largely based on what kind of roster he's given. Tigers bullpen was enough for this team to miss the playoffs, but they didn't.

And I don't love Ausmus at all. I just think he's really being blamed for things well out of his control at this point.

I still don't agree with his use of Anibal in game 2. I also said it may not have mattered with the rest of the bull pen on flames. They were just awful, all year. If it wasn't Coke, it was Nathan, then Soria was brought on board and couldn't even pitch a solid 7th, then Joba started exploding and was already streaky... Al Al has never been trusted, just bad. I will be highly disappointed if they don't make a serious run at Andrew Miller. He should be target 1 and 2 in the free agent market. I know relief pitchers are fickle but I think we're talking about a guy on par with the Arlodis Chapman's of the world. Took awhile for it to click but he's always had A+ talent. I really think if a team wanted to they could experiment with him starting again and it might pay off.

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I'm starting to think managers really don't matter. Look in the other baseball threads and nothing but bad all year about Yost, who came within one game of a much higher payroll team (162M-92M) in the regular season and has run off his first eight this season, something that had never been done in postseason history.

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Bullpens. That is what the came has become. Period. Not managers. Not hitting. Not fielding. Not stealing bases. Can you hold and close? If yes, win. If no, make tee times.

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Watching these playoff games make you realize how weak the Tigers bench is. SF and the Cardinals are pinch hitting with actual good hitters. Not only do we have Romine starting, but when it was time to pinch hit there was nobody of any value. With the bullpen and bench the Tigers probably went about as far as they should have. Aumus did blow game 2 but all it would have meant was one more home game.

Would have liked to see what would have happened in a Detroit-KC matchup. The Tigers dominated KC during the season so it would have been interesting.

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Watching these playoff games make you realize how weak the Tigers bench is. SF and the Cardinals are pinch hitting with actual good hitters. Not only do we have Romine starting, but when it was time to pinch hit there was nobody of any value. With the bullpen and bench the Tigers probably went about as far as they should have.

We need Dave D. to buy a B & B.

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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Watching these playoff games make you realize how weak the Tigers bench is. SF and the Cardinals are pinch hitting with actual good hitters. Not only do we have Romine starting, but when it was time to pinch hit there was nobody of any value. With the bullpen and bench the Tigers probably went about as far as they should have.

We need Dave D. to buy a B & B.

Maybe he can hook up with Posey and open a Dave & Busters.

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Bullpens. That is what the came has become. Period. Not managers. Not hitting. Not fielding. Not stealing bases. Can you hold and close? If yes, win. If no, make tee times.

Nope. It's different every year. Before last year's Red Sox, the two prior winners had bullpens in the bottom half of the league.

What wins World Series today won't matter tomorrow. Playoffs are a crapshoot.

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Bullpens. That is what the came has become. Period. Not managers. Not hitting. Not fielding. Not stealing bases. Can you hold and close? If yes, win. If no, make tee times.

Nope. It's different every year. Before last year's Red Sox, the two prior winners had bullpens in the bottom half of the league.

What wins World Series today won't matter tomorrow. Playoffs are a crapshoot.

Pretty much, bullpens have crazy volatility year to year.

Seattle, Padres, Cleveland, A's, Royals, Nationals, Orioles, Giants, and Mets were best this year

Seattle was 2nd to last in 2013, Mets, Cleveland and Washington were bottom half. Texas and the Reds were top five units in 2013, bottom five in 2014.

With Rondon, Al Al, Soria and Nathan you have the arms you need. Add a power lefty or at least a guy you think can pitch the 8th, and I think that unit can be top ten.

Edited by Doctor Detroit
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Watching these playoff games make you realize how weak the Tigers bench is. SF and the Cardinals are pinch hitting with actual good hitters. Not only do we have Romine starting, but when it was time to pinch hit there was nobody of any value. With the bullpen and bench the Tigers probably went about as far as they should have. Aumus did blow game 2 but all it would have meant was one more home game.

Would have liked to see what would have happened in a Detroit-KC matchup. The Tigers dominated KC during the season so it would have been interesting.

this is why we should let victor go and use those funds for several players and no just a stud. Studs and scrubs doesn't work in this game and that's what this team is right now.
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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

Give me your guess at what he's worth, and what he'll get.

I know the White Sox have already said he's a priority in the offseason. It only takes one other team to give him that four year deal IMO.

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

Give me your guess at what he's worth, and what he'll get.

I know the White Sox have already said he's a priority in the offseason. It only takes one other team to give him that four year deal IMO.

The White Sox, Mariners and Tigers seem like the likely bidders. I don't think Chicago is close enough to think that a 36 year old DH is the solution but I guess they have some money to spend. Jack Z seems like he brings in a couple of DHs every winter.

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Mariners are the first team I'd figure would go after him as well. Most teams with big salaries need to keep DH open for an aging/dying superstar, but Jack Z DGAC. KC might go after Martinez and let Butler go, I suppose.

At least Detroit can offer him a QO. Fangraphs is doing a crowdsourcing project on contracts this coming off-season, pretty interesting:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/contract-crowdsourcing-2014-15-day-5-of-10/

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Mariners are the first team I'd figure would go after him as well. Most teams with big salaries need to keep DH open for an aging/dying superstar, but Jack Z DGAC. KC might go after Martinez and let Butler go, I suppose.

At least Detroit can offer him a QO. Fangraphs is doing a crowdsourcing project on contracts this coming off-season, pretty interesting:

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/contract-crowdsourcing-2014-15-day-5-of-10/

Win or lose, I think the Royals' run has enough of a feelgood factor that they'll want to keep the band together and pick up Butler's option. Maybe I've just been watching Sabean operate too long.

$12.5M ($11.5M factoring in the buyout) for a DH only coming off the worst season of his career would give me pause though.

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

Give me your guess at what he's worth, and what he'll get.

I know the White Sox have already said he's a priority in the offseason. It only takes one other team to give him that four year deal IMO.

The White Sox, Mariners and Tigers seem like the likely bidders. I don't think Chicago is close enough to think that a 36 year old DH is the solution but I guess they have some money to spend. Jack Z seems like he brings in a couple of DHs every winter.

I think Victor sees himself as a first baseman/DH. I remember reading somewhere that he said he would like to play more games in the field.

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

Give me your guess at what he's worth, and what he'll get.

I know the White Sox have already said he's a priority in the offseason. It only takes one other team to give him that four year deal IMO.

The White Sox, Mariners and Tigers seem like the likely bidders. I don't think Chicago is close enough to think that a 36 year old DH is the solution but I guess they have some money to spend. Jack Z seems like he brings in a couple of DHs every winter.

I think Victor sees himself as a first baseman/DH. I remember reading somewhere that he said he would like to play more games in the field.

With Miggy being hobbled the last 2 years I'd think the Tigers would want to put VMart at 1st a little more often.

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

Give me your guess at what he's worth, and what he'll get.

I know the White Sox have already said he's a priority in the offseason. It only takes one other team to give him that four year deal IMO.

I don't think there's any way Martinez agrees to just 2 years/$30mm. 3/$45 is more realistic.

The Tigers will give him that.

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I don't think three years of Victor is a good risk, which is why I hope he doesn't come back; someone will give him that.

Great, one less LH hitter than the few they already have.

Gotta think big picture here. Victor didn't just have a bounce back year, he had a career year - at age 35. If this weren't such a flawed team, sure, go for it, see if he is able to beat father time another couple of years. There are too many holes to re-up as is though. If we go down this path then some other big ticket pieces need moved first.

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I don't think three years of Victor is a good risk, which is why I hope he doesn't come back; someone will give him that.

Great, one less LH hitter than the few they already have.

Gotta think big picture here. Victor didn't just have a bounce back year, he had a career year - at age 35. If this weren't such a flawed team, sure, go for it, see if he is able to beat father time another couple of years. There are too many holes to re-up as is though. If we go down this path then some other big ticket pieces need moved first.

Avila, Romine, Kelly & maybe Dirks. There's the small picture to look at.

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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I don't think three years of Victor is a good risk, which is why I hope he doesn't come back; someone will give him that.

Great, one less LH hitter than the few they already have.

Gotta think big picture here. Victor didn't just have a bounce back year, he had a career year - at age 35. If this weren't such a flawed team, sure, go for it, see if he is able to beat father time another couple of years. There are too many holes to re-up as is though. If we go down this path then some other big ticket pieces need moved first.

Avila, Romine, Kelly & maybe Dirks. There's the small picture to look at.

So if we let Victor walk then we won't pursue any other LHB's?

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I don't think three years of Victor is a good risk, which is why I hope he doesn't come back; someone will give him that.

Great, one less LH hitter than the few they already have.

Gotta think big picture here. Victor didn't just have a bounce back year, he had a career year - at age 35. If this weren't such a flawed team, sure, go for it, see if he is able to beat father time another couple of years. There are too many holes to re-up as is though. If we go down this path then some other big ticket pieces need moved first.

Avila, Romine, Kelly & maybe Dirks. There's the small picture to look at.

So if we let Victor walk then we won't pursue any other LHB's?

Well they would be forced to at that point. I was hoping for a LH outfielder to fill a top 6 position in the order to replace Torri, in addition to keeping Victor. New guy-victor-avila-dirks mostly vs RHPs (75% of all starting pitchers).

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how long can avila last? he gets a concussion every month. not good

Avila should retire, he has taken way too many blows to the head. Now it seems he almost gets knocked out by foul tips that just graze the mask. Has to have some brain damage.

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how long can avila last? he gets a concussion every month. not good

Avila should retire, he has taken way too many blows to the head. Now it seems he almost gets knocked out by foul tips that just graze the mask. Has to have some brain damage.

per MLive:

Alex Avila (head) said Monday that he has given no consideration to retiring from baseball.

Advice: Avila suffered yet another concussion in the Tigers' ALDS Game 3 loss to the Orioles, but he was examined by a specialist last week and is expecting to be 100 percent for the start of spring training next February. "I had a CT scan and an MRI checking my brain and my neck and the arteries leading to it, and everything checks out normal and healthy," the 27-year-old catcher told MLive.com on Monday afternoon. "And talking with the neurologist that examined everything, I shouldn't have any concern."

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I'm on the fence on VMART, it's definitely not a slam dunk to re-sign him IMO.

What is V-Mart going to want and what will the market be? Picked a nice time to have a career season.

I'd want as many years I could get, so I think he'll be looking for 4 years. Ortiz is averaging about $15 million a year, and I think he'll get about that, but the years are the question. I think if he's willing to do a 2/$30m with the Tigers (same contract Ortiz signed in Boston), it's a no brainer IMO. 3 years is questionable, I'd pass on anything longer.

The market for top DH types is always kind of bearish. Half the potential bidders are eliminated automatically and many AL teams have the position filled. Martinez' age and expected contract demands will scare away other teams. He would be an upgrade for a lot of AL teams but DH is seldom the priority when you're putting a team together.

Give me your guess at what he's worth, and what he'll get.

I know the White Sox have already said he's a priority in the offseason. It only takes one other team to give him that four year deal IMO.

I don't think there's any way Martinez agrees to just 2 years/$30mm. 3/$45 is more realistic.

The Tigers will give him that.

3 years/50M with a year 4 option with a 2M walk away or 15M to stay for year 4 will get it done

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Read he's after four years.

Move along...

Why would that be a dealbreaker? The highest paid MLB manager is Scocscia at $5M. Four years of that is a Brandon League contract that doesn't count for luxury tax purposes.

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Read he's after four years.

Move along...

Why would that be a dealbreaker? The highest paid MLB manager is Scocscia at $5M. Four years of that is a Brandon League contract that doesn't count for luxury tax purposes.

sorry, I'm still stuck on Victor. Give Maddon whatever he wants.
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Cabrera underwent surgery to have bone spurs in his right ankle removed Wednesday, but he also had two screws inserted to help repair a stress fracture in the navicular bone of his right foot.

"We were surprised," Dombrowski said. "We did not know that there was (a stress fracture) in there. After he saw the doctor at the end of the year in Miami, he had mentioned something possibly with the navicular bone, but they really didn't know and they told me they wouldn't really know until they went in there. "We were surprised. We did not anticipate this."

Cabrera will be reevaluated in three months. That timeframe sets him up for evaluation late in January, about three weeks before the start of spring training. Dombrowski declined to speculate when asked whether Cabrera could be prevented from starting spring training on time or even playing in the April 6 season opener.

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Cabrera underwent surgery to have bone spurs in his right ankle removed Wednesday, but he also had two screws inserted to help repair a stress fracture in the navicular bone of his right foot.

"We were surprised," Dombrowski said. "We did not know that there was (a stress fracture) in there. After he saw the doctor at the end of the year in Miami, he had mentioned something possibly with the navicular bone, but they really didn't know and they told me they wouldn't really know until they went in there. "We were surprised. We did not anticipate this."

Cabrera will be reevaluated in three months. That timeframe sets him up for evaluation late in January, about three weeks before the start of spring training. Dombrowski declined to speculate when asked whether Cabrera could be prevented from starting spring training on time or even playing in the April 6 season opener.

Not surprising if you watched the way he was swinging late in the year, the last couple of months Cabrera would not even plant his rear/drive leg while swinging. Pretty amazing that he played the last half of 2013 with a torn groin, and last half 2014 with a broken bone in his foot and hardly missed any time. And put up good numbers.

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Read he's after four years.

Move along...

Why would that be a dealbreaker? The highest paid MLB manager is Scocscia at $5M. Four years of that is a Brandon League contract that doesn't count for luxury tax purposes.

I agree. In fact I would like him locked up for 4 just for the pre and post game interviews. Listening to Ausmus is like watching paint dry.

Edited by Da Guru
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Read he's after four years.

Move along...

Why would that be a dealbreaker? The highest paid MLB manager is Scocscia at $5M. Four years of that is a Brandon League contract that doesn't count for luxury tax purposes.

MAC is paying the salary.

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I trust DD and ownership so if they want to pay VMart, so be it. If that hamstrings us and they want to move on I understand too.

Give VMart 4 years and roll the dice, your paying him for this year in the deal which he was underpaid.

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