Limp Ditka Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Name the two teams in baseball Fister would be the #4 guy.Add the dodgers to the 2 teams already named. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Mariners, A's, maybe the Mets and GiantsYou don't think he's a #2 do you jon? His XFIP last year was the worst it's been in five years and he's 31. I like him, he's a solid middle of the rotation guy, but a lot of you guys are making him out to be Tom Seaver. I'll love the day when people let it go, but it seems like we are looking at the second coming of the Jair Jurrjens saga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Posting Judge Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Good writeup: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/doug-fister-is-pitching-to-contact/Def a bad trade by detroit, but the Nats are misusing him. Misdirecting?Who is a 1 or a 4 or a 9 is all relative. Good is good, meh is meh, bad is bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC_32 Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Who is a 1 or a 4 or a 9 is all relative. Good is good, meh is meh, bad is bad.The Fister trade is/was dumb. Time to move on, just like the Tigers are. Greene isn't a bad mulligan. We'll see if he can continue to progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicycle_seat_sniffer Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 Mariners, A's, maybe the Mets and GiantsYou don't think he's a #2 do you jon? His XFIP last year was the worst it's been in five years and he's 31. I like him, he's a solid middle of the rotation guy, but a lot of you guys are making him out to be Tom Seaver. I'll love the day when people let it go, but it seems like we are looking at the second coming of the Jair Jurrjens saga. DONT GET ME STARTED ON JAIR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igbomb Posted December 8, 2014 Share Posted December 8, 2014 DETROIT -The Detroit Tigers have acquired Yankee starting pitcher Shane Greene in a three-way trade involving New York and the Arizona Diamondbacks, according to Ken Rosenthal.In the deal, the Tigers sent 23-year-old starting pitcher Robbie Ray to the Diamondbacks. Ray was 1-4 with an 8.16 ERA in limited action for the Tigers after being acquired from Washington for Doug Fister. Reports say the Tigers will also send another minor league player to the Diamondbacks in the deal.The Diamondbacks sent shortstop Didi Gregorius to the Yankees in the deal, according to reports. So the Fister trade really did suck.Not sure how you got that out of this trade. We just got a #4 starter (what Fister is) who is controllable through 2018 for Ray and a mifer who was deep on the franchise depth chart.So now the Tigers have Green and Krol for Fister and Lebya. The loss of Fister made no difference to the team last year (1.3 WAR), and he is a free agent after this season. So we now have 9 years of two controllable pitchers over one year if Fister. Plus Ray had value to the Diamondbacks.As I said before, judging trades at the time they were made is fruitless because so many things can happen later. I thought we would have had to give up more to get Green than that.Doug Fister is not a #4 starter.On the Tigers he was,1. Max2. Verlander3. Sanchez4. Fister5. PorcelloHe is on the Nats also. Come on. You're better than this. You cited WAR to denigrate his season last year. Using WAR, over the last four years, which includes last year's underwhelming effort, Fister is the #15 pitcher in all of baseball. Is he a #1? Not a good team. But he is definitely a 2/3 type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 DETROIT -The Detroit Tigers have acquired Yankee starting pitcher Shane Greene in a three-way trade involving New York and the Arizona Diamondbacks, according to Ken Rosenthal.In the deal, the Tigers sent 23-year-old starting pitcher Robbie Ray to the Diamondbacks. Ray was 1-4 with an 8.16 ERA in limited action for the Tigers after being acquired from Washington for Doug Fister. Reports say the Tigers will also send another minor league player to the Diamondbacks in the deal.The Diamondbacks sent shortstop Didi Gregorius to the Yankees in the deal, according to reports. So the Fister trade really did suck.Not sure how you got that out of this trade. We just got a #4 starter (what Fister is) who is controllable through 2018 for Ray and a mifer who was deep on the franchise depth chart.So now the Tigers have Green and Krol for Fister and Lebya. The loss of Fister made no difference to the team last year (1.3 WAR), and he is a free agent after this season. So we now have 9 years of two controllable pitchers over one year if Fister. Plus Ray had value to the Diamondbacks.As I said before, judging trades at the time they were made is fruitless because so many things can happen later. I thought we would have had to give up more to get Green than that. Doug Fister is not a #4 starter. On the Tigers he was,1. Max2. Verlander3. Sanchez4. Fister5. Porcello He is on the Nats also. Come on. You're better than this. You cited WAR to denigrate his season last year. Using WAR, over the last four years, which includes last year's underwhelming effort, Fister is the #15 pitcher in all of baseball. Is he a #1? Not a good team. But he is definitely a 2/3 type. He's a three on most teams, probably a 2 in Minnesota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknew Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN · 9m9 minutes agoThe Tigers' focus is on retaining Max Scherzer. They are prepared to spend big, big dollars. Want to keep Price for 2015, too. Buster Olney @Buster_ESPN · 8m8 minutes agoScherzer turned down $144 million in the spring from the Tigers, but Detroit really wants him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 I guess I shouldn't be surprised if Max returns. This franchise always surprises me from the Miggy trade, to the Willis extension, the Granderson trade, to the Fielder and then Kinsler trades and the Fister trade. Never know what they are going to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I guess I shouldn't be surprised if Max returns. This franchise always surprises me from the Miggy trade, to the Willis extension, the Granderson trade, to the Fielder and then Kinsler trades and the Fister trade. Never know what they are going to do. David Price trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 I guess I shouldn't be surprised if Max returns. This franchise always surprises me from the Miggy trade, to the Willis extension, the Granderson trade, to the Fielder and then Kinsler trades and the Fister trade. Never know what they are going to do. David Price tradeYeah, that one too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_mx Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 After the Lester deal, it looks like it will cost $200 million to keep Max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Hoard Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This means someone (porcello?) will be traded, unless a 6 man rotation is the new thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Guru Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This means someone (porcello?) will be traded, unless a 6 man rotation is the new thing.Price might be closing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leroy Hoard Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 This means someone (porcello?) will be traded, unless a 6 man rotation is the new thing.Price might be closing. As long as he's Coke's replacement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igbomb Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 After the Lester deal, it looks like it will cost $200 million to keep Max.Max won't get much more, if any, than Lester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Guru Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 After the Lester deal, it looks like it will cost $200 million to keep Max.Max won't get much more, if any, than Lester.I agree..you would think that the market price has been set by Lesters deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I agree with the rationale around here that its not my money but I can't help but get the urge as a fan they tell Boras to go screw if he's asking over 200 mil. Doing that kind of stuff used to dry up the markets until the player would have to do a 1 yr deal like the Juan Gons of the world but lately teams have been caving to long term deals for players they want in the short term. We did so with Fielder and that is on the books and probably affecting the construct of the team some this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Max will get 6/175 max IMO. But he isn't taking less than 6 years, nor should he. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yoenis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Max will get 6/175 max IMO. But he isn't taking less than 6 years, nor should he. Well right now teams are not seemingly that interested to pay that with the market flush with 3's and 4's and Max's small body of success as high as it was. We'll see what happens though. I'd much rather them attempt to get Price signed long term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yoenis Since I've been going around the internet spouting off about Cespedes not being what he is cracked up to be, can't say I'm overly excited. I'm not a huge Porcello fan though and it puts another big bat behind Miggy which I support. Wonder what the other deal they are cooking up is. Need a #4/5 starter now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Tigers also getting a minor league pitcher back for porky. Mlbtr saying another deal will follow also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknew Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yoenis Unless its a big time prospect, I don't like it. Also - Jon Morosi @jonmorosi · 9m9 minutes ago#Tigers expected to trade prospects for a starting pitcher in the second (non-Boston) trade today, source says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraft... Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Tigers also getting a minor league pitcher back for porky. Mlbtr saying another deal will follow also.Just heard it's a straight up deal couple other players going with Yoenis. Im also hearing a Cinci SP might be in the works for Detroit, possible flip Edited December 11, 2014 by Kraft... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hope they get a Romo deal done. Still haven't addressed our biggest issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Elvis Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hear its Alex Wilson and a low level pitching prospect also going to the Tigers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknew Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hear its Alex Wilson and a low level pitching prospect also going to the Tigers.So no prospects. Great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Lots of rumors flying now. Heard one about Masterson and one about a Cincy trade for pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Posting Judge Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yoenis Since I've been going around the internet spouting off about Cespedes not being what he is cracked up to be, can't say I'm overly excited. I'm not a huge Porcello fan though and it puts another big bat behind Miggy which I support. Wonder what the other deal they are cooking up is. Need a #4/5 starter now.Big bat like literally one of those inflatable novelty bats? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Guru Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Cespedes says he can play CF. Don`t see why not since he has good speed and a great arm. Don`t mind this deal since the Tigers were never going to pay Porcello anyway. Edited December 11, 2014 by Da Guru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I'm holding my breath on Cincy and hoping for Cingrini, probably just being greedy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igbomb Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Cespedes says he can play CF. Don`t see why not since he has good speed and a great arm. Don`t mind this deal since the Tigers were never going to pay Porcello anyway. But Cespedes is a FA after this year as well. So it really is all about which one makes them better in 2015. Not a fan myself. I really like Porcello (under-rated) and hate to watch low-OBP swingers like Cespedes (over-rated).Hope like hell I'm wrong but I'm not digging this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocGonzo Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Alfredo Simon, per Rosenthal. Ken RosenthalVerified account @Ken_Rosenthal Source: #Tigers getting Alfredo Simon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whoknew Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Alfredo Simon, per Rosenthal. Ken RosenthalVerified account @Ken_Rosenthal Source: #Tigers getting Alfredo Simon.Anyone know much about him? Looks to be about a league average starter. Edited December 11, 2014 by whoknew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocGonzo Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) Don't know much about him myself. Looks like he only makes about $1.5 million and has been a reliever in the past. Maybe he's meant to bolster the bullpen and they're still in on Max or another starter?Edit: Appears he's also the subject of a civil lawsuit over an alleged rape and has in the past been acquitted of involuntary manslaughter charges. For whatever all that is worth. Edited December 11, 2014 by DocGonzo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Alfredo Simon, per Rosenthal. Ken RosenthalVerified account @Ken_Rosenthal Source: #Tigers getting Alfredo Simon.Ugh... this is who I was hoping it wasn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bicycle_seat_sniffer Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 so that trade means Max is in play? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Simon has been pretty good the last 1.5 seasons and has pitched in hitters parks his whole career. Was Orioles closer in 2010 for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eephus Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Alfredo Simon, per Rosenthal. Ken RosenthalVerified account @Ken_Rosenthal Source: #Tigers getting Alfredo Simon.Anyone know much about him? Looks to be about a league average starter.Big Dominican. Flexible arm that can start or relieve.He was good in a full-time starter role but there was some luck involved. His FIP was nearly a full point higher than his ERA. In 20 years, he'll be the one guy nobody guesses when a picture of the 2014 NL All-Stars gets posted somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eephus Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Don't know much about him myself. Looks like he only makes about $1.5 million and has been a reliever in the past. Maybe he's meant to bolster the bullpen and they're still in on Max or another starter?Edit: Appears he's also the subject of a civil lawsuit over an alleged rape and has in the past been acquitted of involuntary manslaughter charges. For whatever all that is worth.He'll get a big raise in arbitration but even $5M isn't bad for a SP in this market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojang0301 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Ya I'm definitely not ruling out still getting another starter as Simon has a decent reliever track record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 ... this is who I was hoping it wasn'tBig Mike Leake fan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Flying Elvis Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Eugenio Suarez and Jonathon Crawford Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Suarez is fodder, not a fan of dealing Crawford though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocGonzo Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Local Tigers beat guy says DD plans for Simon to start.Chris Iott @Chris_Iott 6m6 minutes ago Dave Dombrowski: Alfredo Simon slotted right into rotation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Lambskin Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Meh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Detroit Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 (edited) I like the Cespedes deal, Simon deal is meh as Dan said. If they bring Max back this is a net gain day though. Edited December 11, 2014 by Doctor Detroit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da Guru Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I like the Cespedes deal, Simon deal is meh as Dan said. If they bring Max back this is a net gain day though.Big Pasta had decent numbers last year and seems to be a serviceable 5th starter. Did not really want to lose Suarez though. Thought he did well be being brought up at 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAC_32 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Don't know much about him myself. Looks like he only makes about $1.5 million and has been a reliever in the past. Maybe he's meant to bolster the bullpen and they're still in on Max or another starter?Edit: Appears he's also the subject of a civil lawsuit over an alleged rape and has in the past been acquitted of involuntary manslaughter charges. For whatever all that is worth.I think the involuntary manslaughter thing came from an incident in which he shot a gun in the air repeatedly (in celebration?) a couple of offseasons ago. I remember not adding him last year because he looked like a regression candidate. Stopped paying attention to him once he was universally owned though.Knee jerk reaction, I like the Greene trade a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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