***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun***

[MAC_32 12,082]

Cespedes says he can play CF. Don`t see why not since he has good speed and a great arm. Don`t mind this deal since the Tigers were never going to pay Porcello anyway.

But Cespedes is a FA after this year as well. So it really is all about which one makes them better in 2015. Not a fan myself. I really like Porcello (under-rated) and hate to watch low-OBP swingers like Cespedes (over-rated).

Hope like hell I'm wrong but I'm not digging this.

Same. I'm not up to date on how draft pick compensation works, but I'm reading on twitter that Porcello would net us comp picks while Cespedes won't. I'd much rather have traded for Moss and kept Rick.

[MAC_32 12,082]

@BNightengale 6m6 minutes ago

The #Tigers no longer are pursuing Max Scherzer, GM David Dombrowski reveals.

[The Flying Elvis 24]

Cespedes says he can play CF. Don`t see why not since he has good speed and a great arm. Don`t mind this deal since the Tigers were never going to pay Porcello anyway.

But Cespedes is a FA after this year as well. So it really is all about which one makes them better in 2015. Not a fan myself. I really like Porcello (under-rated) and hate to watch low-OBP swingers like Cespedes (over-rated).

Hope like hell I'm wrong but I'm not digging this.

Same. I'm not up to date on how draft pick compensation works, but I'm reading on twitter that Porcello would net us comp picks while Cespedes won't. I'd much rather have traded for Moss and kept Rick.

This is true. Cespedes has a contract clause that prevents him from getting a QO. No compensation for him if he walks.

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

Not sure about the rest of the equation but next year's lineup should be better defensively than 2014, something that should help both the starters & bullpen.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Leroy Hoard

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

OPS over a hundred points lower on the road, going to a bigger park might help this guy.

Just to follow up, check out his splits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=greensh02&year=&t=p

4-0 away from Yankee Bandbox with a 2.70 ERA & 10.8 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched. Small sample size (7 games) but still not bad.

DD mentioned Simon also pitching in a hitters park, home/away splits for him:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=simonal01&year=&t=p

[Da Guru 6,300]

@BNightengale 6m6 minutes ago

The #Tigers no longer are pursuing Max Scherzer, GM David Dombrowski reveals.

Good! Now go get another bullpen arm.

[Bojang0301 2,246]

I don't care for these deals and it's the first time I've really felt like that from DD's trades. Simon is meh to complete garbage then were scrapping at the half way point for a #5 if he's crap. I think we all know Cespedes flaws. When the comp pick was revealed that sounds like a pretty bad deal if we're not getting some sort of upper tier prospect for Rick as well even if I don't care for him as much as others. Only saving grace would be Cespedes may have a high potential that I'm not giving him credit for and he'll be playing for his biggest contract in the offseason. Seems like if there is a time to have him on a team now would be it. Really don't see nor want him long term.

[Eephus 23,465]

OPS over a hundred points lower on the road, going to a bigger park might help this guy.

Just to follow up, check out his splits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=greensh02&year=&t=p

4-0 away from Yankee Bandbox with a 2.70 ERA & 10.8 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched. Small sample size (7 games) but still not bad.

DD mentioned Simon also pitching in a hitters park, home/away splits for him:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=simonal01&year=&t=p

His first/second half splits are more extreme

[Bojang0301 2,246]

@BNightengale 6m6 minutes ago

The #Tigers no longer are pursuing Max Scherzer, GM David Dombrowski reveals.

Good! Now go get another bullpen arm.

I don't like completely dismissing him but Boras has been a #### this whole offseason and since he is representing Max I have to assume he is Max's mouthpiece. I'd put my money on him signing a deal no better than Lester and looking like a shallow idiot for not taking the deal offered before last season.

[Da Guru 6,300]

@BNightengale 6m6 minutes ago

The #Tigers no longer are pursuing Max Scherzer, GM David Dombrowski reveals.

Good! Now go get another bullpen arm.

I don't like completely dismissing him but Boras has been a #### this whole offseason and since he is representing Max I have to assume he is Max's mouthpiece. I'd put my money on him signing a deal no better than Lester and looking like a shallow idiot for not taking the deal offered before last season.

RedSox are out. If the Yankees and Dodgers are not interested then who is next? Seattle?

[MAC_32 12,082]

OPS over a hundred points lower on the road, going to a bigger park might help this guy.

Just to follow up, check out his splits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=greensh02&year=&t=p

4-0 away from Yankee Bandbox with a 2.70 ERA & 10.8 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched. Small sample size (7 games) but still not bad.

DD mentioned Simon also pitching in a hitters park, home/away splits for him:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=simonal01&year=&t=p

Mighty big variance in HR rates, that's encouraging. So is his triple slash with men on base and in high leverage situations.

[MAC_32 12,082]

OPS over a hundred points lower on the road, going to a bigger park might help this guy.

Just to follow up, check out his splits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=greensh02&year=&t=p

4-0 away from Yankee Bandbox with a 2.70 ERA & 10.8 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched. Small sample size (7 games) but still not bad.

DD mentioned Simon also pitching in a hitters park, home/away splits for him:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=simonal01&year=&t=p

His first/second half splits are more extreme

Easy to point to fatigue being the issue. How will his arm react a year later? How many cases are there of a converted reliever that piled on that great of an increase year over year?

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

Maybe he just needs to lay off the pasta.

[Da Guru 6,300]

With Max and Hunter gone that is 29 million off last seasons payroll. And the Tigers were willing to go 24 million a year for Max so they are really saving 37 million in payroll from what it could have been.

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

So Cespedes in left & Martinez in right, with Gose/Davis a CF platoon?

[bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109]

anything on the Avila to Arizona rumor I heard on the radio this morning? or that talking head gibberish?

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

anything on the Avila to Arizona rumor I heard on the radio this morning? or that talking head gibberish?

Radio guy quoted Ausmus as saying starting catcher was going to be decided in spring training, no starter penciled in yet.

[jon_mx 8,756]

No biters on $200 million for Max?

[Bojang0301 2,246]

OPS over a hundred points lower on the road, going to a bigger park might help this guy.

Just to follow up, check out his splits:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=greensh02&year=&t=p

4-0 away from Yankee Bandbox with a 2.70 ERA & 10.8 strikeouts per 9 innings pitched. Small sample size (7 games) but still not bad.

DD mentioned Simon also pitching in a hitters park, home/away splits for him:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?id=simonal01&year=&t=p

His first/second half splits are more extreme

Easy to point to fatigue being the issue. How will his arm react a year later? How many cases are there of a converted reliever that piled on that great of an increase year over year?

He's 33 . The more I let it digest the more it's a bad deal. Not the losing prospects or the money but the fact they are going to use this guy as an excuse not to get another real SP. Masterson for $10 would have been better as would Brett Anderson.

[MAC_32 12,082]

I agree about Masterson, but not Anderson. If you can't stay on the field then you can't help the team. He's a Spring Training body you hope can do what Scott Kazmir did, but prepare for him to do what Rich Harden usually did.

[Bojang0301 2,246]

I agree about Masterson, but not Anderson. If you can't stay on the field then you can't help the team. He's a Spring Training body you hope can do what Scott Kazmir did, but prepare for him to do what Rich Harden usually did.

Well I would still hope they bring someone else in to at least compete with Greene if your intention is to hand him the #4 job.

[jon_mx 8,756]

_{The rotation, infield and outfield are set. C will be decided in spring training. It is pretty much just the bullpen that is TBD. I wish they would just cut Nathan right now.}

_{And they still have the two Kyles' as depth for their Starting rotation.}

Edited December 11, 2014 by jon_mx

[MAC_32 12,082]

_{The rotation, infield and outfield are set. C will be decided in spring training. It is pretty much just the bullpen that is TBD. I wish they would just cut Nathan right now.}

_{And they still have the two Kyles' as depth for their Starting rotation.}

Hope not, depth is still a big issue with this team.

[Hilts 4,297]

Cespedes says he can play CF. Don`t see why not since he has good speed and a great arm. Don`t mind this deal since the Tigers were never going to pay Porcello anyway.

There's a difference between playing and playing well.

[Good Posting Judge 13,667]

Cespedes' cf numbers are terrible. Small sample, granted, but i think he's much better suited for a corner.

[Da Guru 6,300]

Cespedes' cf numbers are terrible. Small sample, granted, but i think he's much better suited for a corner.

I guess you did not see many Tiger games after A-Jax was traded.

Cespedes says he can play CF. Don`t see why not since he has good speed and a great arm. Don`t mind this deal since the Tigers were never going to pay Porcello anyway.

There's a difference between playing and playing well.

No biters on $200 million for Max?

Boros is making his pitch.... says the Yankess will have a "World series" type of rotation of they sign Max. That means there must not be many teams testing the waters.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Da Guru

[Doctor Detroit 20,905]

Cespedes will be in RF and he'll be a big upgrade over Hunter there. They'll get compensation for Price next year, generally draft puck compensation is overrated. Porcello could stay in Boston, factoring that in means little. Both players are 3 wins, and Tigers desperately needed an OFer.

[Hilts 4,297]

Cespedes will be in RF and he'll be a big upgrade over Hunter there. They'll get compensation for Price next year, generally draft puck compensation is overrated. Porcello could stay in Boston, factoring that in means little. Both players are 3 wins, and Tigers desperately needed an OFer.

For what your team needed, I think he's a fine corner outfield option. I was just responding to him in CF - that would be an adventure. I would have rather had Porcello and sign someone else, but Cespedes is reasonable enough. I doubt he'll carry Detroit this season but I also doubt he'll hurt the team. He'll be an above average player.

[Doctor Detroit 20,905]

Cespedes will be in RF and he'll be a big upgrade over Hunter there. They'll get compensation for Price next year, generally draft puck compensation is overrated. Porcello could stay in Boston, factoring that in means little. Both players are 3 wins, and Tigers desperately needed an OFer.

For what your team needed, I think he's a fine corner outfield option. I was just responding to him in CF - that would be an adventure. I would have rather had Porcello and sign someone else, but Cespedes is reasonable enough. I doubt he'll carry Detroit this season but I also doubt he'll hurt the team. He'll be an above average player.

Yeah, I was just addressing a few posts there. He takes too many chances so CF would be a disaster Imo. Gose and Davis can play there anyway, Gose possibly at an elite level.

I'm just glad Torii's gone. Cespedes and Hunter are pretty similar hitters, Yoenis with the higher power ceiling. Only hope is that because it's a contact year, maybe Cespedes will outperform. In other words, maybe he'll work some walks in.

Edited December 11, 2014 by Doctor Detroit

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

I see people slotting Cespedes at #5 or #6 but why not give him the Torri treatment and bat him #2 in front of Miggy & the Martinez twins? I'd think that would result in a few better pitches for him to see.

[The Flying Elvis 24]

I see people slotting Cespedes at #5 or #6 but why not give him the Torri treatment and bat him #2 in front of Miggy & the Martinez twins? I'd think that would result in a few better pitches for him to see.

Because he doesn't get on base.

[Doctor Detroit 20,905]

I see people slotting Cespedes at #5 or #6 but why not give him the Torri treatment and bat him #2 in front of Miggy & the Martinez twins? I'd think that would result in a few better pitches for him to see.

Because he doesn't get on base.

That's Leroy's point, neither did Hunter. Didn't stop them from hitting him 2nd. Edited December 11, 2014 by Doctor Detroit

[MAC_32 12,082]

I see people slotting Cespedes at #5 or #6 but why not give him the Torri treatment and bat him #2 in front of Miggy & the Martinez twins? I'd think that would result in a few better pitches for him to see.

If jd stays at five then Cespedes at two makes sense, gotta split them up. Edited December 11, 2014 by MAC_32

[jon_mx 8,756]

No way you take JD out of the 5th spot. He was way too productive there assuming he hits like he did.

[MAC_32 12,082]

No way you take JD out of the 5th spot. He was way too productive there assuming he hits like he did.

i am wary of regression, but yeah he needs to open there.

[Doctor Detroit 20,905]

You know for a franchise that has pretty much been ranked in the bottom quarter for farm systems for the better part of the last 20 years, everyone seems to want our prospects. Strange isn't it?

[Eephus 23,465]

You know for a franchise that has pretty much been ranked in the bottom quarter for farm systems for the better part of the last 20 years, everyone seems to want our prospects. Strange isn't it?

It's a franchise that has been willing to trade tomorrow for today. The big league club has very little homegrown talent but not many of the guys they're traded away have amounted to much either.

[DocGonzo 50]

Local radio this morning had a guy on from blessyouboys.com. They were talking yesterday's moves and speculation that the deal for Simon (rather than, say, Latos or Leake) was made at least in part because Simon could be moved to the bullpen if the club ends up able to sign a better starter. Obviously everyone is wondering about Scherzer, but they threw out there that James Shields could be in the mix at a cheaper price.

[tri-man 47 8,743]

I'm just glad Torii's gone. Cespedes and Hunter are pretty similar hitters, Yoenis with the higher power ceiling. Only hope is that because it's a contact year, maybe Cespedes will outperform. In other words, maybe he'll work some walks in.

I hope it is a 'contact' year for Cespedes! But I agree with igbomb's earlier comment ("I really like Porcello (under-rated) and hate to watch low-OBP swingers like Cespedes (over-rated).") I believe Porcello was really starting to develop, and given his age, I think he's got a lot of solid years ahead of him. Then again, I'm really old school and like to see guys stay with a team (the Kaline Syndrome).

I'm eager to see how it plays out. We're in a very good stretch of years here, but we can't quite get to the top. Maybe a revamped look (and improved defense) will help.

[jon_mx 8,756]

Local radio this morning had a guy on from blessyouboys.com. They were talking yesterday's moves and speculation that the deal for Simon (rather than, say, Latos or Leake) was made at least in part because Simon could be moved to the bullpen if the club ends up able to sign a better starter. Obviously everyone is wondering about Scherzer, but they threw out there that James Shields could be in the mix at a cheaper price.

Shields is a couple years older. Max is at his peak and may have another 2-3 peak years left. Shields is probably at the tail end of his peak, but should have a few more decent years left.. If you could get Shields to a 3 year deal, then go for it. But if you have to sign Shields to a 4 plus year deal, Max is probably more of a bargain even at the higher price. Maybe the Tigers can go 6 years/$175 million for Max.

Edited December 12, 2014 by jon_mx

[jon_mx 8,756]

I'm just glad Torii's gone. Cespedes and Hunter are pretty similar hitters, Yoenis with the higher power ceiling. Only hope is that because it's a contact year, maybe Cespedes will outperform. In other words, maybe he'll work some walks in.

I hope it is a 'contact' year for Cespedes! But I agree with igbomb's earlier comment ("I really like Porcello (under-rated) and hate to watch low-OBP swingers like Cespedes (over-rated).") I believe Porcello was really starting to develop, and given his age, I think he's got a lot of solid years ahead of him. Then again, I'm really old school and like to see guys stay with a team (the Kaline Syndrome).

I'm eager to see how it plays out. We're in a very good stretch of years here, but we can't quite get to the top. Maybe a revamped look (and improved defense) will help.

Last years team puzzles me. They should have been a lot better. They only played to their potential early and were only a mediocre team the last 3/4th of the year. First part of the season, their bullpen sucked also but they were able to still win despite it. Last season was so disappointing and even after sliding into the playoffs again there was not much of a feeling they would go far.

[2Young2BBald 515]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

[Da Guru 6,300]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

Thought the Goose was going to play CF?

[jon_mx 8,756]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

I would move Davis up to 2nd, and drop Cespedes to 7th. And Avila to 8th.

[MAC_32 12,082]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

I'm assuming/hoping the Tigers plan to bring in a mediocre vet to backup 2B/SS (3B?). Banking on Iggy being healthy would be silly, so I'd think a contingency plan is in motion. Romine should be plan C, not plan B.

I like your order, but swap Iggy and Davis/Gose.

[2Young2BBald 515]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

Thought the Goose was going to play CF?

Completely forgot about him: http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=543238#gameType=R&sectionType=career&statType=1&season=2014&level=ALL' So swap him for Davis?

[Leroy Hoard 13,435]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

Thought the Goose was going to play CF?

Completely forgot about him: http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=543238#gameType=R&sectionType=career&statType=1&season=2014&level=ALL' So swap him for Davis?

They could platoon with Goose getting most of the starts since he would be the lefty vs righty.

2014 stats:

.641 OPS vs RHP

.461 OPS vs LHP

Edited December 12, 2014 by Leroy Hoard

[Doctor Detroit 20,905]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

Thought the Goose was going to play CF?

Completely forgot about him: http://detroit.tigers.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=543238#gameType=R&sectionType=career&statType=1&season=2014&level=ALL' So swap him for Davis?

They could platoon with Goose getting most of the starts since he would be the lefty vs righty.

2014 stats:

.641 OPS vs RHP

.461 OPS vs LHP

I think Davis will get more starts because Davis' OPS numbers vs righties are similar to Gose's, and that's scary because Davis has been known to stink vs righties. Davis mashes lefties and always has though, so I see it probably as a 65/35 Davis strong platoon. Unless Gose figures out how to hit, because he's a great defender and he is fast like those KC guys. But I think if he has a .700 OPS vs righties, that would be pretty great.

Edited December 13, 2014 by Doctor Detroit

[Doctor Detroit 20,905]

Tigers probably have three #5 hitters in Cespedes, Castellanos and JD. They all have power, none of them like to walk, and all of them are streaky. Kinsler is the guy who should hit second, and he might when Davis plays, especially vs lefties. Kinsler doesn't like walks much either though.

Castellanos might be the guy if he can continue to develop, but having him start in low leverage spots like 7th is best early on. I think his power will increase year after year, but if he can continue to hit line drives at the rate he did last year he's going to be successful wherever. He's got a lot of work to do on the Ks though, but I think we'll see him develop better plate discipline if he's watching VMART and Miggy every day.

[jon_mx 8,756]

I picked up my daughter at WMU yesterday and we talked about the trades and baseball most of the drive back (which was ####### awesome). There were two things we couldn't quite figure out. First, with the Suarez trade, is it safe to assume the Iggy is healthy and will be the starter at short? And, who is slotted for CF (Davis, or could possibly Moya compete). Based on what we could figure out, here is what we thought would be a possible opening day line up, barring future roster movement:

Kinsler 2nd

Cespedes RF

Miggy 1st

Vmart DH

JD LF

Nick 3rd

Avila C

Davis CF

Iggy SS

Where are we possibly off?

I'm assuming/hoping the Tigers plan to bring in a mediocre vet to backup 2B/SS (3B?). Banking on Iggy being healthy would be silly, so I'd think a contingency plan is in motion. Romine should be plan C, not plan B.

I like your order, but swap Iggy and Davis/Gose.

Hernan Perez is probably a better option than Romine. Needs to show he can hit at the major league level. He has more pop than Romine and is a good base stealer. Pretty solid glove at 2nd/SS, not sure if he has played third.

Edited December 13, 2014 by jon_mx