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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun***

Doctor Detroit

By Doctor Detroit,
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Da Guru

Da Guru 6,293

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The more I learn about Simon, the more I think it is risky counting on him as a starter. He is a better fit for the bullpen. He had an awesome first half of the season, but after the All-Star break, he sucked ###. He has not shown the ability to be a workhorse. Spot starter/bullpen is where he belongs.

He pitched like a #2 starter at times last year and he sucked some too. Sounds like a #5 starter to me. :shrug:

Agree Simon being a 5..maybe a 4. But that is what Porcello was in Detroit. Porcellos last 4 Septembers have not been that good. ERA has been 6.20, 5.42, 5.49, 3.37. Porcello, Greene, Simon are 4 and 5 types. Porcello would always have a nice stretch in the middle where you would think he has finally made it..but looking at Simons stats he does the same thing..only 8 years older and 100 lbs heavier. That is what 4-5s do.

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Kraft...

Went to Detroit over the weekend, beautiful park you guys have there. We moved around a bit and the site lines are pretty great all the way around. Coming from Fenway anything is better but yours were

whoknew

Mike Illitch. RIP.  Great, great owner. 

FishTacoTuesday

May seem like a homer or shtick or whatever, but that looked like a future Ace playing with a really bad  team around him.   I know Goodrum is a fill at SS for 2020, but he probably cost Mize a

Leroy Hoard

Leroy Hoard 13,423

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The more I learn about Simon, the more I think it is risky counting on him as a starter. He is a better fit for the bullpen. He had an awesome first half of the season, but after the All-Star break, he sucked ###. He has not shown the ability to be a workhorse. Spot starter/bullpen is where he belongs.

He pitched like a #2 starter at times last year and he sucked some too. Sounds like a #5 starter to me. :shrug:

Agree Simon being a 5..maybe a 4. But that is what Porcello was in Detroit. Porcellos last 4 Septembers have not been that good. ERA has been 6.20, 5.42, 5.49, 3.37. Porcello, Greene, Simon are 4 and 5 types. Porcello would always have a nice stretch in the middle where you would think he has finally made it..but looking at Simons stats he does the same thing..only 8 years older and 100 lbs heavier. That is what 4-5s do.

I was never that much of a Porcello fan, like many here I probably miss Fister more.

BTW, Doug is a FA next year. :o

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Da Guru

Da Guru 6,293

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The more I learn about Simon, the more I think it is risky counting on him as a starter. He is a better fit for the bullpen. He had an awesome first half of the season, but after the All-Star break, he sucked ###. He has not shown the ability to be a workhorse. Spot starter/bullpen is where he belongs.

He pitched like a #2 starter at times last year and he sucked some too. Sounds like a #5 starter to me. :shrug:

Agree Simon being a 5..maybe a 4. But that is what Porcello was in Detroit. Porcellos last 4 Septembers have not been that good. ERA has been 6.20, 5.42, 5.49, 3.37. Porcello, Greene, Simon are 4 and 5 types. Porcello would always have a nice stretch in the middle where you would think he has finally made it..but looking at Simons stats he does the same thing..only 8 years older and 100 lbs heavier. That is what 4-5s do.

I was never that much of a Porcello fan, like many here I probably miss Fister more.

BTW, Doug is a FA next year. :o

So is A-Jax..put the band back together.

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jon_mx

jon_mx 8,750

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The more I learn about Simon, the more I think it is risky counting on him as a starter. He is a better fit for the bullpen. He had an awesome first half of the season, but after the All-Star break, he sucked ###. He has not shown the ability to be a workhorse. Spot starter/bullpen is where he belongs.

He pitched like a #2 starter at times last year and he sucked some too. Sounds like a #5 starter to me. :shrug:
His career MO seems to be he falls off the cliff when his seasonal inning count gets up there. He looks very good when his arm is fresh. As a regular starter, I just think there is a good chance he will suck come mid-July.

I would use him thinking you can only get 100 really good innings out of him. Use them wisely.

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Da Guru

Da Guru 6,293

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The more I learn about Simon, the more I think it is risky counting on him as a starter. He is a better fit for the bullpen. He had an awesome first half of the season, but after the All-Star break, he sucked ###. He has not shown the ability to be a workhorse. Spot starter/bullpen is where he belongs.

He pitched like a #2 starter at times last year and he sucked some too. Sounds like a #5 starter to me. :shrug:
His career MO seems to be he falls off the cliff when his seasonal inning count gets up there. He looks very good when his arm is fresh. As a regular starter, I just think there is a good chance he will suck come mid-July.

I would use him thinking you can only get 100 really good innings out of him. Use them wisely.

Don`t start him until July.

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jon_mx

jon_mx 8,750

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If FBG's was around in 1984, it would have been fun to see the trolls come in here and rag on the trade, telling us how we got a subpar setup man for a stud outfielder.

Anyways, I did see Bergman make a great defensive play to save Morris's no-hitter. :thumbup:

Gotta love plays like this. :lol:

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bicycle_seat_sniffer

bicycle_seat_sniffer 5,109

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March 24, 1984: Traded by the Philadelphia Phillies with Willie Hernandez to the Detroit Tigers for Glenn Wilson and John Wockenfuss.

That trade seems fair. :oldunsure:

RIP....part of the greatest season ever.

Ya know i wonder, did Willie have the screwball pitch before coming to detroit? Or did Roger Craig tweek it/teach it for him to make him un-hittable

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jon_mx

jon_mx 8,750

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He learned his best two pitches from two Cy Young winners, Mike Cueller taught him the screwball and Ferggie Jenkins taught him the cutter, both in 1983 the season before coming to the Tigers.

Hernandez had the unfortunate problem of pitching with some all time great closers with Philly and Chicago...Bruce Sutter, Lee Smith, and Al Holland. Even in Detroit, it took him a while to earn the closer role which was Senior Smoke Lopez's role.

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Eephus

Eephus 23,442

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He learned his best two pitches from two Cy Young winners, Mike Cueller taught him the screwball and Ferggie Jenkins taught him the cutter, both in 1983 the season before coming to the Tigers.

Hernandez had the unfortunate problem of pitching with some all time great closers with Philly and Chicago...Bruce Sutter, Lee Smith, and Al Holland. Even in Detroit, it took him a while to earn the closer role which was Senior Smoke Lopez's role.

Relief pitcher roles were evolving rapidly in the late 70s/early 80s which probably trickled down to how different teams assessed trade value.

The Phillies 83 pennant winning club was old and they needed to think about rebuilding. I'm sure they thought Glenn Wilson would be a key piece of that project. Wilson wasn't terrible, he made an All Star team while in Philadelphia, but he was surplus to the Tigers' requirements.

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Leroy Hoard

Leroy Hoard 13,423

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Somebody brought this up both here & on MLBN, here is DD's take on outlawing shifts in baseball:

Dombrowski was adamant on one topic, though. He would be opposed to outlawing shifts in Major League Baseball, something new commissioner Rob Manfred has suggested.

"I don't like the idea of that," he said. "There are people in our front office that think it's a good idea. I think it's a mistake. You should never penalize intellect. If you are smart enough to play players in certain positions, you shouldn't be penalized."

Dombrowski understands the reasoning behind the desire to outlaw shifts — to facilitate more offense. He believes there is a more baseball-intrinsic, non-legislative way to achieve that.

"One of the biggest problems we have is hitters have gotten away from using the whole field," he said. "Pitching is better than ever. You see guys coming out of the bullpen and their average velocity is 93 mph-plus. ... The velocity has improved and hitting is tougher.

"But using the whole field will help the offense. Instead of saying you can't play that person there, you need to be in a position as a hitter where you can take advantage of driving the ball the other way."

Dombrowski's argument is bolstered by the presence all-fields hitters in his own lineup — Miguel Cabrera, Victor Martinez and J.D. Martinez among them.

"Cabrera and (Victor) Martinez are two of the best hitters in baseball," he said. "And not only are they two of the best, but how they go about their at-bats. Using the whole field. That's really important, especially in our ballpark.

"But I think in today's game, one of the reasons offense is down is hitters have become pull-oriented. ... If you are using the whole field you usually have fewer holes (in your swing), you drive more pitches. You don't just have one zone you can handle."

Among the various suggestions Major League Baseball has discussed to speed up the pace of games, Dombrowski expects at least one to be implemented this season — teams will have 2:25 between innings. Stadiums will be fitted with a clock.

"One thing you will see, which will happen right away, is between innings when it says 2:25 between the last out and the next inning starts, that first pitch will come at 2:25," he said. "It won't be at 2:25 the hitter is announced and he strolls in and the pitcher gets on the mound. The pitcher is going to be ready to deliver the ball at 2:25.

"So if you are taking a bathroom break between innings, make sure you know it will be coming back a little quicker."

chris.mccosky@detroitnews.com

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Eephus

Eephus 23,442

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VMart..... :sadbanana:

Sucks but apparently an MCL is only 8-10 weeks. So that's not the end of the world.

blessyouboys saying meniscus and out 4-6 weeks

It's the same knee that he's had problems with in the past.

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Doctor Detroit

Doctor Detroit 20,905

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What kind of workouts is V-Mart doing to tear his ACL and then his meniscus. I have never heard of a player blowing out his knee twice in 4 years during the off-season.

I guess you never heard of Brian Roberts, that guy tears his knee combing his hair.

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Captain Hook

Captain Hook 85

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I read about the workout, but I've also read several places we aren't making a serious run at him.

Nobody really knows so the Tigers are as in as any other team at this point

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Da Guru

Da Guru 6,293

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Never been a huge Rod fan, this should improve things a bit.

They were talking about this on 105.1 and it seems Mario and Rod despise each other and have for years. So bad that they don`t talk at all out of the booth unless they have to. Mario was said to be a "pro`s pro" in terms of preparation and Rod more or less just wings it.

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Leroy Hoard

Leroy Hoard 13,423

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Never been a huge Rod fan, this should improve things a bit.

They were talking about this on 105.1 and it seems Mario and Rod despise each other and have for years. So bad that they don`t talk at all out of the booth unless they have to. Mario was said to be a "pro`s pro" in terms of preparation and Rod more or less just wings it.

I caught a little of that thru the broadcasts, but never thought it had gotten to the point where new blood had to be brought in.

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Doctor Detroit

Doctor Detroit 20,905

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Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

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Captain Hook

Captain Hook 85

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Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

GOSE is not going to do that if he is splitting time with Rajai Davis .... and I would bet his BAvg this year will be below all those guys mentioned above

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Doctor Detroit

Doctor Detroit 20,905

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Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

GOSE is not going to do that if he is splitting time with Rajai Davis .... and I would bet his BAvg this year will be below all those guys mentioned above

It's a three year average, glad you are able to keep up.

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Eephus

Eephus 23,442

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Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

GOSE is not going to do that if he is splitting time with Rajai Davis .... and I would bet his BAvg this year will be below all those guys mentioned above
It's a three year average, glad you are able to keep up.

Get the K% under 20% and then we'll talk

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Doctor Detroit

Doctor Detroit 20,905

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Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

GOSE is not going to do that if he is splitting time with Rajai Davis .... and I would bet his BAvg this year will be below all those guys mentioned above
It's a three year average, glad you are able to keep up.

Get the K% under 20% and then we'll talk

I think he's terrible, but BP doesn't. Plus I don't really want to talk to you anyway. :shrug:

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