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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun***


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Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

GOSE is not going to do that if he is splitting time with Rajai Davis .... and I would bet his BAvg this year will be below all those guys mentioned above
It's a three year average, glad you are able to keep up.

Get the K% under 20% and then we'll talk

I think he's terrible, but BP doesn't. Plus I don't really want to talk to you anyway. :shrug:

Now you've gone and hurt my feelings

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Went to Detroit over the weekend, beautiful park you guys have there. We moved around a bit and the site lines are pretty great all the way around. Coming from Fenway anything is better but yours were

Mike Illitch. RIP.  Great, great owner. 

May seem like a homer or shtick or whatever, but that looked like a future Ace playing with a really bad  team around him.   I know Goodrum is a fill at SS for 2020, but he probably cost Mize a

Baseball Prospectus did their 3 year projections on MLB OFers and I thought it was surprising Anthony Goss was ranked 82nd. You may think that is low but they are projecting him to put up similar production to Michael Bourn, Nick Markakis, Dominic Brown, and Andre Eithier. So low-end starting OFer, but starting OFer none the less.

GOSE is not going to do that if he is splitting time with Rajai Davis .... and I would bet his BAvg this year will be below all those guys mentioned above
It's a three year average, glad you are able to keep up.

Get the K% under 20% and then we'll talk

I think he's terrible, but BP doesn't. Plus I don't really want to talk to you anyway. :shrug:

Now you've gone and hurt my feelings

By "talk" I mean "sex"

I wouldn't want to break your hip.

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Cy Young sleeper candidate? Guess before you click...

He's going to have to learn to deal with righties and pitch longer into games. He's brilliant vs lefties though so there are some lineups he's going to excel against.

I hope he does great.

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Cy Young sleeper candidate? Guess before you click...

He's going to have to learn to deal with righties and pitch longer into games. He's brilliant vs lefties though so there are some lineups he's going to excel against.

I hope he does great.

I hated to see the Tigers get rid of Smyly for a number of reasons. Not that I did not like Price because I enjoy watching him pitch, but would rather have a younger lefty pitcher that the team had control over for a few more seasons. Plus Smyly is making 15-16 million less than Price this season.

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Cy Young sleeper candidate? Guess before you click...

He's going to have to learn to deal with righties and pitch longer into games. He's brilliant vs lefties though so there are some lineups he's going to excel against.

I hope he does great.

I hated to see the Tigers get rid of Smyly for a number of reasons. Not that I did not like Price because I enjoy watching him pitch, but would rather have a younger lefty pitcher that the team had control over for a few more seasons. Plus Smyly is making 15-16 million less than Price this season.

Nice pitcher that we could obviously still use in either the rotation or bullpen.

That said, Cy Young is really pushing it for a guy who projects to winning around 10-13 games this year.

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Cy Young sleeper candidate? Guess before you click...

He's going to have to learn to deal with righties and pitch longer into games. He's brilliant vs lefties though so there are some lineups he's going to excel against.

I hope he does great.

I hated to see the Tigers get rid of Smyly for a number of reasons. Not that I did not like Price because I enjoy watching him pitch, but would rather have a younger lefty pitcher that the team had control over for a few more seasons. Plus Smyly is making 15-16 million less than Price this season.

If I had to choose between Verlander, Price, and Sanchez vs. Scherzer. FIster, and Smyly.....I am not sure I would not go with the latter. Although I do see Price having a great year, Verlander performing better, and Sanchez being solid. I just think the second three have better and more years ahead of them,

Edited by jon_mx
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Cy Young sleeper candidate? Guess before you click...

He's going to have to learn to deal with righties and pitch longer into games. He's brilliant vs lefties though so there are some lineups he's going to excel against.

I hope he does great.

I hated to see the Tigers get rid of Smyly for a number of reasons. Not that I did not like Price because I enjoy watching him pitch, but would rather have a younger lefty pitcher that the team had control over for a few more seasons. Plus Smyly is making 15-16 million less than Price this season.

If I had to choose between Verlander, Price, and Sanchez vs. Scherzer. FIster, and Smyly.....I am not sure I would not go with the latter. Although I do see Price having a great year, Verlander performing better, and Sanchez being solid. I just think the second three have better and more years ahead of them,

That's a good point.

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One year at 1 million is a good deal for the Tigers. I doubt that Joba will even sniff the 8th or 9th inning anymore. If Joba can pitch like he did in the first half last season he has good value to the team in middle relief type situations. This means they are probably not counting on Hanrahan to recover.

Edited by Da Guru
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This means they are probably not counting on Hanrahan to recover.

Nor should they - plan for the worst, hope for the best. Throw a bunch of darts, see what sticks, then re-evaluate midseason.

I'm more concerned about the position players than I am the arms right now. If our arms aren't consistent we can win enough in the meantime to stay in the race and try to fix the problem later. If the bats are quiet though...could get ugly.

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I like the Joba signing. It's one year and likely low cost.

Last year he seemed to wear down. With Rondon back, and Soria on the team for a full season they can hopefully limit his use to keep him fresh down the stretch plus he can take on more of a 6/7th inning type of role. If Nathan fails at some point then they can use him in the 7th with Rondon and Soria in the 8th/9th. Lots of options in the bullpen to use, just have to hope some of them stick and perform well.

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I like the Joba signing. It's one year and likely low cost.

Last year he seemed to wear down. With Rondon back, and Soria on the team for a full season they can hopefully limit his use to keep him fresh down the stretch plus he can take on more of a 6/7th inning type of role. If Nathan fails at some point then they can use him in the 7th with Rondon and Soria in the 8th/9th. Lots of options in the bullpen to use, just have to hope some of them stick and perform well.

Just hope he has shaved because that beard was getting disgusting to look at towards the end of last season..you just know there was decaying food stuck in there somewhere.

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I like the Joba signing. It's one year and likely low cost.

Last year he seemed to wear down. With Rondon back, and Soria on the team for a full season they can hopefully limit his use to keep him fresh down the stretch plus he can take on more of a 6/7th inning type of role. If Nathan fails at some point then they can use him in the 7th with Rondon and Soria in the 8th/9th. Lots of options in the bullpen to use, just have to hope some of them stick and perform well.

Just hope he has shaved because that beard was getting disgusting to look at towards the end of last season..you just know there was decaying food stuck in there somewhere.

Beard is gone

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I like the Joba signing. It's one year and likely low cost.

Last year he seemed to wear down. With Rondon back, and Soria on the team for a full season they can hopefully limit his use to keep him fresh down the stretch plus he can take on more of a 6/7th inning type of role. If Nathan fails at some point then they can use him in the 7th with Rondon and Soria in the 8th/9th. Lots of options in the bullpen to use, just have to hope some of them stick and perform well.

I've been reading a lot of outsiders views on the Tigers bullpen, and Al Al is a name mentioned prominently for save ops when Nathan fails. Not saying I agree with it, but it's a key year for him regardless.

Soria, Rondon, Joba, Al Al, Nathan, gorzelanny and Farmer/Hardy has the makings of a good pen. Krol, Zeid and Wilson add depth.

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Price and the Tigers are both open to negotiations. Make it so. :shrug:

Lefty with that delivery is gonna last a while.

For the players saying "Open" means if you pay me exactly what I am asking for I will sign. I don`t think 6-144 will get the job done do you?

Edited by Da Guru
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Price and the Tigers are both open to negotiations. Make it so. :shrug:

Lefty with that delivery is gonna last a while.

For the players saying "Open" means if you pay me exactly what I am asking for I will sign. I don`t think 6-144 will get the job done do you?

I don't think it'd be a good idea to lock him up right now no matter what. Really need to see how the season progresses and see if this team can compete for a title or not. Obviously none of us hope it comes to fruition, but selling needs to be in the back of the front office's mind. Castellanos is really the only cost controlled asset we have right now. Others could develop, but they're not there yet...hell, you could argue Castellanos hasn't yet. The rest are either expiring soon, going to be around for 4 years (Victor, Kinsler, Sanchez), or a very long time (Miggy and JV). If this core can't win then we need to consider selling off the vets for more cost controlled assets.

Again, hope it doesn't come to fruition, but committing more $ long term right now (big contracts anyway) would be a bad idea.

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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

You're correct in that they are low cost controllable assets, but they're not a part of the long term big picture...yet. Greene's the only one I'd say right now that I expect to become one, but even that's just a projection. I don't trust Iggy and Rondon's health and neither Krol nor Moya have proven anything yet.

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Price and the Tigers are both open to negotiations. Make it so. :shrug:

Lefty with that delivery is gonna last a while.

For the players saying "Open" means if you pay me exactly what I am asking for I will sign. I don`t think 6-144 will get the job done do you?

I don't think it'd be a good idea to lock him up right now no matter what. Really need to see how the season progresses and see if this team can compete for a title or not. Obviously none of us hope it comes to fruition, but selling needs to be in the back of the front office's mind. Castellanos is really the only cost controlled asset we have right now. Others could develop, but they're not there yet...hell, you could argue Castellanos hasn't yet. The rest are either expiring soon, going to be around for 4 years (Victor, Kinsler, Sanchez), or a very long time (Miggy and JV). If this core can't win then we need to consider selling off the vets for more cost controlled assets.

Again, hope it doesn't come to fruition, but committing more $ long term right now (big contracts anyway) would be a bad idea.

Castellanos is only 23, right? He should continue to develop and, hopefully, contribute more this year.

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Price and the Tigers are both open to negotiations. Make it so. :shrug:

Lefty with that delivery is gonna last a while.

For the players saying "Open" means if you pay me exactly what I am asking for I will sign. I don`t think 6-144 will get the job done do you?

I don't think it'd be a good idea to lock him up right now no matter what. Really need to see how the season progresses and see if this team can compete for a title or not. Obviously none of us hope it comes to fruition, but selling needs to be in the back of the front office's mind. Castellanos is really the only cost controlled asset we have right now. Others could develop, but they're not there yet...hell, you could argue Castellanos hasn't yet. The rest are either expiring soon, going to be around for 4 years (Victor, Kinsler, Sanchez), or a very long time (Miggy and JV). If this core can't win then we need to consider selling off the vets for more cost controlled assets.

Again, hope it doesn't come to fruition, but committing more $ long term right now (big contracts anyway) would be a bad idea.

Castellanos is only 23, right? He should continue to develop and, hopefully, contribute more this year.

Oh, I expect him to. He hasn't become a proven core piece yet, but unlike the others I think planning on him becoming one is fair. I think he will replace one of Kinsler, Sanchez, or Victor's contracts when they expire.

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It may or may not be a great season, but it should at minimum be an interesting season.

I've had my fill of interesting seasons. Get the ring or suck.

29 out of 30 MLB teams won't get a ring this year. Better chance of having the winning horse in the Kentucky Derby.

That said, Tigers are in the smaller group that at least has a shot at it.

Losing the Derby by a little would suck more too I suppose. :deadhorse:

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

You're correct in that they are low cost controllable assets, but they're not a part of the long term big picture...yet. Greene's the only one I'd say right now that I expect to become one, but even that's just a projection. I don't trust Iggy and Rondon's health and neither Krol nor Moya have proven anything yet.

Oof

If Iglesias isn't part of the "long-term big picture," at least one of a reasonable baseball mind, then they might as well fold. You don't want to sign vets adn don't consider anyone a long-term asset, you might as well go back to being an Indians fan.

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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

You're correct in that they are low cost controllable assets, but they're not a part of the long term big picture...yet. Greene's the only one I'd say right now that I expect to become one, but even that's just a projection. I don't trust Iggy and Rondon's health and neither Krol nor Moya have proven anything yet.

Oof

If Iglesias isn't part of the "long-term big picture," at least one of a reasonable baseball mind, then they might as well fold. You don't want to sign vets adn don't consider anyone a long-term asset, but at least you're a swell guy.

Given the condition of his shins I expect nothing and hope for even more than what he showed in 13.
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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

You're correct in that they are low cost controllable assets, but they're not a part of the long term big picture...yet. Greene's the only one I'd say right now that I expect to become one, but even that's just a projection. I don't trust Iggy and Rondon's health and neither Krol nor Moya have proven anything yet.
Oof

If Iglesias isn't part of the "long-term big picture," at least one of a reasonable baseball mind, then they might as well fold. You don't want to sign vets adn don't consider anyone a long-term asset, but at least you're a swell guy.

Given the condition of his shins I expect nothing and hope for even more than what he showed in 13.

I understand your point, but I agree with Doc. Tigers are banking on Iglesias as the SS of the future. If he doesn't work out, that's a HUGE problem.

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Price and the Tigers are both open to negotiations. Make it so. :shrug:

Lefty with that delivery is gonna last a while.

For the players saying "Open" means if you pay me exactly what I am asking for I will sign. I don`t think 6-144 will get the job done do you?

I don't think it'd be a good idea to lock him up right now no matter what. Really need to see how the season progresses and see if this team can compete for a title or not. Obviously none of us hope it comes to fruition, but selling needs to be in the back of the front office's mind. Castellanos is really the only cost controlled asset we have right now. Others could develop, but they're not there yet...hell, you could argue Castellanos hasn't yet. The rest are either expiring soon, going to be around for 4 years (Victor, Kinsler, Sanchez), or a very long time (Miggy and JV). If this core can't win then we need to consider selling off the vets for more cost controlled assets.

Again, hope it doesn't come to fruition, but committing more $ long term right now (big contracts anyway) would be a bad idea.

This is terrible. Price will be 30 at the start of next year. No matter what the team's approach is beyond this year, that is a guy you lock up every single chance you get. If his demands are outlandish, of course you don't sign him. But if you can get him at market value while you're the only one who can negotiate, you do that all day.

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Price and the Tigers are both open to negotiations. Make it so. :shrug:

Lefty with that delivery is gonna last a while.

For the players saying "Open" means if you pay me exactly what I am asking for I will sign. I don`t think 6-144 will get the job done do you?

I don't think it'd be a good idea to lock him up right now no matter what. Really need to see how the season progresses and see if this team can compete for a title or not. Obviously none of us hope it comes to fruition, but selling needs to be in the back of the front office's mind. Castellanos is really the only cost controlled asset we have right now. Others could develop, but they're not there yet...hell, you could argue Castellanos hasn't yet. The rest are either expiring soon, going to be around for 4 years (Victor, Kinsler, Sanchez), or a very long time (Miggy and JV). If this core can't win then we need to consider selling off the vets for more cost controlled assets.

Again, hope it doesn't come to fruition, but committing more $ long term right now (big contracts anyway) would be a bad idea.

This is terrible. Price will be 30 at the start of next year. No matter what the team's approach is beyond this year, that is a guy you lock up every single chance you get. If his demands are outlandish, of course you don't sign him. But if you can get him at market value while you're the only one who can negotiate, you do that all day.

I want to win now, but I also don't want 5 years of dredge while we wait out the back end of three huge contracts of guys that have gone over the cliff. I understand why we did it with Miggy and JV, they're our guys, we may not have drafted Miggy but we got him early enough that I think we can claim him as ours. Each unit needs that leader in the clubhouse, which both of them can provide even when they aren't producing up to their contract.

Price may be able to serve a similar role when he hits the decline, but it makes more sense elsewhere, where they don't have that guy already in house. Use those funds for either younger players or more age 30 give or take players and a shorter time commitment. This team has enough studs, we need more depth. A lot more depth.

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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

You're correct in that they are low cost controllable assets, but they're not a part of the long term big picture...yet. Greene's the only one I'd say right now that I expect to become one, but even that's just a projection. I don't trust Iggy and Rondon's health and neither Krol nor Moya have proven anything yet.

Moya has proven everything he can in the minors - late this year or next year they have to give him a shot in Detroit

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If you have the opportunity to negotiate with an elite player you do it or you end up like the 2000s Mariners.

Also Iglesias, Greene, Krol, Rondon, Moya are all low cost controllable assets.

Dombrowski isn't going to blow the team up and bring in a bunch of young unproven guys, that's not his MO.

You're correct in that they are low cost controllable assets, but they're not a part of the long term big picture...yet. Greene's the only one I'd say right now that I expect to become one, but even that's just a projection. I don't trust Iggy and Rondon's health and neither Krol nor Moya have proven anything yet.

Moya has proven everything he can in the minors - late this year or next year they have to give him a shot in Detroit

In AA last year his K rate was 29% and his BB rate 4%.

Power hitters can get by with that sorta K rate, but the ones that also carry that BB rate are usually hacks. He needs to prove he can develop an eye this year. If he does then maybe he can help later this year. Show me, don't tell me though.

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Most MLB don't enter FA until they are in their late 20s, I guess this is a hard concept to grasp.

What young players are they going to spend on in lieu of Price?

A much better question to ask in November.

You seem to be focusing on the front end of the contract though whereas I'm referring to the back end. Price should be treated the same way Max was. Thanks for the service, but you make more sense somewhere else now.

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Most MLB don't enter FA until they are in their late 20s, I guess this is a hard concept to grasp.

What young players are they going to spend on in lieu of Price?

Not 24, hasnt seen a pitch at AAA = nothing left to prove!

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go cancel my subscription to mastersball

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Anyone else catch MLBN's top 100 players show? Showed 100-81 last night, had JV @ 98 & Prince @ 97.

:popcorn:

Was it a rerun?

More like a Roger or Dwayne IMO.

Thought they should have reversed it, JV had a higher BA than Prince.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/_/name/det/detroit-tigers

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/_/name/tex/texas-rangers

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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Anyone else catch MLBN's top 100 players show? Showed 100-81 last night, had JV @ 98 & Prince @ 97.

:popcorn:

Was it a rerun?

More like a Roger or Dwayne IMO.

Thought they should have reversed it, JV had a higher BA than Prince.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/_/name/det/detroit-tigers

http://espn.go.com/mlb/team/stats/batting/_/name/tex/texas-rangers

Look at what Robbie Ray did with the stick! Boom!

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Cespedes is "open" to talking long term deal with Tigers. Said he thought he would have been a Tiger 3 years ago had V-Mart not blown his knee out the first time. What would it take to get a deal done?

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I don't think I'd give Cespedes more than four years, and I'm guessing he's seeking at least six. I think he has a great year this year because i think contract is a huge motivation for him. I think he tests the market.

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