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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun***


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Pitching bible compares Shane Greene to Doug Fister, saying he has similar upside and should be a solid middle of the rotation guy for some years. That would certainly be nice.

I know expectations are lower this year, but how is this team worse than the team a year ago? I think the Indians are going to be really good this year and the Sux and Royals might be right there too, but I think this Tigers team is better than it was at this time last year. Up the middle they might be one of the best defensive teams in baseball. When was the last time that happened? Mid to late 80s? Price, Verlander, Sanchez, Greene, and Simon is an above average staff at worst, and the bullpen at least has more options and what should be an anchor in Soria.

Gotta figure Big Nick continues to get better, that the boppers continue to bop, and the team has more speed than its had in a real long time. Count me as cautiously optimistic. :shrug:

Price is a solid ace, although Max is better.

Last three years

IP: Price 646 Scherzer 622

Games Started: Scherzer 97 Price 92

WAR: Scherzer 16.5 Price 15.3

XFIP: Price 3.02 Scherzer 3.17

K/9: Scherzer 10.4 Price 8.7

LOB%: Scherzer 76.1% Price 74.7%

If Scherzer is better, it's by a razor thin margin. They are two of the six best pitchers in baseball, and Price brings the added benefit of being a lefty.

Edited by Doctor Detroit
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Went to Detroit over the weekend, beautiful park you guys have there. We moved around a bit and the site lines are pretty great all the way around. Coming from Fenway anything is better but yours were

Mike Illitch. RIP.  Great, great owner. 

May seem like a homer or shtick or whatever, but that looked like a future Ace playing with a really bad  team around him.   I know Goodrum is a fill at SS for 2020, but he probably cost Mize a

Simon is a low K and fairly high HR/9 guy, him as closer would probably end badly. His XFIP as a starter and a reliever don't vary a whole lot, and neither do the Ks. He's not an elite bullpen arm by any measure, he's a middle of the road pitcher who can eat innings every fifth day.

I think the guy that will eventually be in the rotation is Buck Farmer who has all the elements of a solid middle of the rotation guy. He needs more work on his control, but he probably is the best of the prospect starters in the system. Ryan struggled at Erie last year as a starter, seems like he needs a lot more work to be a MLB starter. Seems like he has LOOGY written all over him.

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Pitching bible compares Shane Greene to Doug Fister, saying he has similar upside and should be a solid middle of the rotation guy for some years. That would certainly be nice.

I know expectations are lower this year, but how is this team worse than the team a year ago? I think the Indians are going to be really good this year and the Sux and Royals might be right there too, but I think this Tigers team is better than it was at this time last year. Up the middle they might be one of the best defensive teams in baseball. When was the last time that happened? Mid to late 80s? Price, Verlander, Sanchez, Greene, and Simon is an above average staff at worst, and the bullpen at least has more options and what should be an anchor in Soria.

Gotta figure Big Nick continues to get better, that the boppers continue to bop, and the team has more speed than its had in a real long time. Count me as cautiously optimistic. :shrug:

Price is a solid ace, although Max is better.

Last three years

IP: Price 646 Scherzer 622

Games Started: Scherzer 97 Price 92

WAR: Scherzer 16.5 Price 15.3

XFIP: Price 3.02 Scherzer 3.17

K/9: Scherzer 10.4 Price 8.7

LOB%: Scherzer 76.1% Price 74.7%

If Scherzer is better, it's by a razor thin margin. They are two of the six best pitchers in baseball, and Price brings the added benefit of being a lefty.

One more thing that in Detroit's case is a plus - Price is more likely to finish a game.

Also want to point out in terms of the coming comparisons the obvious that still needs to be stated on a yearly basis:

http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/American-League-National-League-greater-than-ever-122010

Edited by Leroy Hoard
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Got Tigers/Orioles tix for end of July, early August. One pair of premium seats and some cheap seats for Sunday so I can stand in the OF or belly up to outdoor bar at Camden.

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What do my friends here think of Moya overall, where you think he will fit in someday, and when will he get a shot?

He had a K rate of 29% and a BB rate of 4% in AA last year. Fix that and there could be something, but if not then no.

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What do my friends here think of Moya overall, where you think he will fit in someday, and when will he get a shot?

He had a K rate of 29% and a BB rate of 4% in AA last year. Fix that and there could be something, but if not then no.

So Adam Dunn useful?

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What do my friends here think of Moya overall, where you think he will fit in someday, and when will he get a shot?

He had a K rate of 29% and a BB rate of 4% in AA last year. Fix that and there could be something, but if not then no.

So Adam Dunn useful?

Adam Dunn buys walks.

He's currently somewhere between a left handed Delmon Young and Junior Lake.

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What do my friends here think of Moya overall, where you think he will fit in someday, and when will he get a shot?

He had a K rate of 29% and a BB rate of 4% in AA last year. Fix that and there could be something, but if not then no.

So Adam Dunn useful?

Adam Dunn buys walks.

He's currently somewhere between a left handed Delmon Young and Junior Lake.

Good point...Dunn did walk.

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I really hope the Tigers just eat $11 million and cut Nathan.

Yes. At this point go with Soria, Rondon & bump everyone else up one notch. Joe seems to be lacking both physically & mentally and that $11 million buyout would be a good going away present.

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I really hope the Tigers just eat $11 million and cut Nathan.

Yes. At this point go with Soria, Rondon & bump everyone else up one notch. Joe seems to be lacking both physically & mentally and that $11 million buyout would be a good going away present.

I think it would be best for all parties involved just to cut bait on Nathan. If a 30 or even 35 year old Nathan is struggling let him try to work it out. At 40 what you see is what you get. Nathan has struggled with his command for a full year going back to last spring. I just don`t think he is going to find it anytime soon. Plus now with the fans having turned on him it will be that much more difficult.

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Fans booing, especially in spring training, sucks to put it mildly. I hate the boo birds.

Never boo your own team unless your team employs dirtballs and criminals.

That and a WHIP above 1.60

Edited by Da Guru
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Lakeland, Fla. — Serious issues, most of them, are turning Detroit's way 21/2 weeks before the Tigers break camp in Florida and shift north for Opening Day.

Miguel Cabrera and Victor Martinez are ahead of schedule and look as if they'll be ready for April 6 against the Twins at Comerica Park.

Jose Iglesias is nearly a month into his routine and all is good following last year's shin fractures.

Justin Verlander is stronger and should be better. Anibal Sanchez is steady and has been so sharp he probably generates less conversation than any player on the roster.

And then there are Detroit's new starters, Shane Greene and Alfredo Simon, who won't be invincible but who have the pitches and polish to eat innings and win 12-15 games.

That leaves the bullpen.

And there is the potential trapdoor.

The Tigers checked into Tigertown last month and knew they needed a surprise. From someone.

They might have found one in Angel Nesbitt.

He is a 24-year-old right-hander from Detroit's prospect hatchery in Venezuela who even a month ago had an outside shot at shaking up Detroit's bullpen cast.

In five Grapefruit League games, Nesbitt has a 1.80 ERA, thanks to five innings of work, three hits and one run allowed, as well as a lone walk alongside three strikeouts.

Not only in terms of pitches, but in composure, Nesbitt could during these final weeks in camp give the Tigers their best shot at adding another shutdown pitcher their bullpen's back end must have on Opening Day.

K-man needed

Note that word: another. Joakim Soria and Bruce Rondon have been the closest to sure things the Tigers have been featuring in Florida's late-innings auditions. Al Alburquerque should be fine in his particular role, and Tigers manager Brad Ausmus looks as if he can count on Kyle Ryan as one of two left-handers he prefers to carry.

Joe Nathan, however, still is searching for stuff that can be trusted in the ninth inning, while Joba Chamberlain is, well, Joba Chamberlain.

The Tigers need another strikeout pitcher. At the very least, they need a chucker who can make at-bats uncomfortable and ideas of big-inning rallies seem remote.

Nesbitt potentially is the man. He throws a mid-90s fastball that can easily hit 98. He has a heavy slider. And he throws an OK change-up. It's the same repertoire featured by Rondon, whose comeback from Tommy John surgery has been so smooth he can be mentioned with Cabrera, Martinez, and Iglesias as one of those happy spring-camp recovery tales.

"I think he's extremely close," Ausmus said Tuesday when asked how soon Nesbitt might be showing up at Comerica Park. "Generally, with an arm like that, the challenge is to throw strikes. But quite frankly, he's impressed everybody with all his pitches and the way he's thrown strikes."

Nesbitt is 6-foot-1 and 237 pounds. Someone asked the other day who he most resembles and a fast answer was that he looks like a bigger version of Jair Jurrjens, the Tigers' one-time hotshot prospect from Curacao who in 2007 was traded to the Braves for Edgar Renteria.

On second thought, it seemed as if a comparison to old bullpen matador Fernando Rodney might be more accurate. In any case, Nesbitt is slightly taller than either of those two, and definitely thicker. He throws harder than Jurrjens and has more pitches than Rodney.

He was signed six years ago, at age 18, out of Aragua, Venezuela. And feel free to wonder where the Tigers might be if Venezuela hadn't been pumping prospects so regularly into Detroit's farm chain.

Mind of a reliever

Al Avila, the Tigers assistant general manager who oversees Latin America's scouting as well as the minor leagues, knew more than anyone that Nesbitt had a shot in 2015.

"It's been an excellent spring for him," Avila said before Tuesday's game, which saw the Tigers get smacked by the Nationals, 6-4, at Marchant Stadium. "He's worked his way into the bullpen mix.

"He's not just a guy who has a real good arm. He tries to figure things out. What separates him is you see a guy here with stuff — who throws up to 98. But the thing about him is he throws strikes. And sometimes, you might say, he throws strikes too much.

"By that I mean, you can throw a ball on purpose once in a while. But that just shows how he can command his pitches."

Another plus makes Nesbitt a percentage bet to pitch in Detroit this season, even if he doesn't crack the Opening Day corps.

"He's an intelligent pitcher," Avila said. "He's very aware of his surroundings. He knows what to do. He brings that dimension where, again, he isn't just a guy with a good arm, he knows what he's doing.

"All the player-development people will tell you he won't get rattled. He knows what to do. He's got a plan. You can teach him and he'll learn. He's not just another guy who throws hard. He's a complete package."

A package, it should be noted, that hasn't yet thrown a big-league pitch. But keep an eye on events during spring camp's final 21/2 weeks. The Tigers can't fool around with their bullpen. Not again. On this team, at this time, arms and upside can win a job bigger names haven't yet claimed.

lynn.henning@detroitnews.com

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Fans booing, especially in spring training, sucks to put it mildly. I hate the boo birds.

Never boo your own team unless your team employs dirtballs and criminals.

That and a WHIP above 1.60

Everybody in baseball knew Nathan did not have the stuff to be the closer last year. When your closer enters the game to a standing ovation from the opposing crowd, you have issues. Joe's time as a closer has past him by.

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Fans booing, especially in spring training, sucks to put it mildly. I hate the boo birds.

Never boo your own team unless your team employs dirtballs and criminals.

That and a WHIP above 1.60

Everybody in baseball knew Nathan did not have the stuff to be the closer last year. When your closer enters the game to a standing ovation from the opposing crowd, you have issues. Joe's time as a closer has past him by.

I agree that he's done and shouldn't be out there.

But that's no reason to boo him, especially in a spring training game. As far as I can tell, he's not half-assing it. Thus he doesn't deserve the fans giving him hell.

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Gotta be more to talk about than old Joe.

Fields and McCann are having a really nice spring, Anibal rolled today, and JD has a .700 slugging percentage.

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Gotta be more to talk about than old Joe.

Fields and McCann are having a really nice spring, Anibal rolled today, and JD has a .700 slugging percentage.

David Price gets the opening day start. :thumbup:

AA 6Ks in 5 innings. Would like to see the Tigers expand his role.

Edited by Da Guru
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Gotta be more to talk about than old Joe.

Fields and McCann are having a really nice spring, Anibal rolled today, and JD has a .700 slugging percentage.

There is a lot of positives. I look forward to the season starting in a couple of weeks, and am very optimistic about the Tigers chances. But if Joe walks out in the 9th inning to protect a lead in a playoff game this year, I will have a broken television.

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Fields and McCann are having a really nice spring, Anibal rolled today, and JD has a .700 slugging percentage.

Iglesius healthy, and Miggy and VMart coming along. Lots of good things happening so far.

Don't forget Rondon is healthy too. And there is hope Verlander return to greatness. There is still some concern with the backend of the rotation and still question marks on the bullpen. The Tiger's lineup will be feared and their defense will be much improved and fun to watch.

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Gotta be more to talk about than old Joe.

Fields and McCann are having a really nice spring, Anibal rolled today, and JD has a .700 slugging percentage.

I really think JD is legit...sounds like a lot of work went into a refined swing last year sometimes that works like with Joey Bats

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Gotta be more to talk about than old Joe.

Fields and McCann are having a really nice spring, Anibal rolled today, and JD has a .700 slugging percentage.

I really think JD is legit...sounds like a lot of work went into a refined swing last year sometimes that works like with Joey Bats

Even if he regresses some I think the power component is undeniable. It was always there, and there was a reason he was a top prospect, just took him awhile to put it together. They have his rights for three more years, this might end up being one of the best moves DD ever made.

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Alfredo Simon is very worrisome.

He is a good arm in the bullpen and a spot starter. Hoping for him to give us a season as a full time starter is wishful thinking. He could still be a very useful player if used correctly.

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My daughter and I have been talking baseball almost daily via text as the season is getting closer and after yesterday's home run output, I wondered if the Tigers just might have a chance to break the single season Team HR record (with the addition of Cespedes and if JD can be the JD of last year). Looking at The Baseball Almanac, I was surprised to see which team holds the record and the total. The Seattle Mariners hold the record of 264 in 1997 (over 1.62 per game during the regular season). With Comerica's deep centerfield, I'd say the Tiger wont even get near the record, but do think 220 to 230 is quite possible. My daughter, a math & stats major and HUGE Tiger fan thinks 250 to breaking the record is possible if Vmart & Miggy can stay healthy. Thoughts?

ETA, meant to link the 1997 Mariners batting info: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/hitting.php?y=1997&t=SEA

Edited by 2Young2BBald
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My daughter and I have been talking baseball almost daily via text as the season is getting closer and after yesterday's home run output, I wondered if the Tigers just might have a chance to break the single season Team HR record (with the addition of Cespedes and if JD can be the JD of last year). Looking at The Baseball Almanac, I was surprised to see which team holds the record and the total. The Seattle Mariners hold the record of 264 in 1997 (over 1.62 per game during the regular season). With Comerica's deep centerfield, I'd say the Tiger wont even get near the record, but do think 220 to 230 is quite possible. My daughter, a math & stats major and HUGE Tiger fan thinks 250 to breaking the record is possible if Vmart & Miggy can stay healthy. Thoughts?

ETA, meant to link the 1997 Mariners batting info: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/hitting.php?y=1997&t=SEA

Not gonna happen. To challenge the record in this era, a team will need a more favorable home ballpark and depth of power throughout the lineup. The only recent team that's been within spitting distance of the Mariners' record was the 2012 Yankees with 245. They had four players with >=24 and seven with >=18.

The Tigers' lineup only has 3-4 players with 30 HR potential and are unlikely to get any power production at all out of CF & SS. They haven't threatened the 200 HR mark and a 35% increase is unlikely.

For me, the craziest thing about the 1997 Mariners mark is Joey Cora's career year. He hit 11 of his 30 career HRs that year and slugged 70 points above his career average. I remember Cora as a tiny guy. Muscling up for double digit homers one year is pretty cool.

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My daughter and I have been talking baseball almost daily via text as the season is getting closer and after yesterday's home run output, I wondered if the Tigers just might have a chance to break the single season Team HR record (with the addition of Cespedes and if JD can be the JD of last year). Looking at The Baseball Almanac, I was surprised to see which team holds the record and the total. The Seattle Mariners hold the record of 264 in 1997 (over 1.62 per game during the regular season). With Comerica's deep centerfield, I'd say the Tiger wont even get near the record, but do think 220 to 230 is quite possible. My daughter, a math & stats major and HUGE Tiger fan thinks 250 to breaking the record is possible if Vmart & Miggy can stay healthy. Thoughts?

ETA, meant to link the 1997 Mariners batting info: http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teamstats/hitting.php?y=1997&t=SEA

Not gonna happen. To challenge the record in this era, a team will need a more favorable home ballpark and depth of power throughout the lineup. The only recent team that's been within spitting distance of the Mariners' record was the 2012 Yankees with 245. They had four players with >=24 and seven with >=18.

The Tigers' lineup only has 3-4 players with 30 HR potential and are unlikely to get any power production at all out of CF & SS. They haven't threatened the 200 HR mark and a 35% increase is unlikely.

For me, the craziest thing about the 1997 Mariners mark is Joey Cora's career year. He hit 11 of his 30 career HRs that year and slugged 70 points above his career average. I remember Cora as a tiny guy. Muscling up for double digit homers one year is pretty cool.

Great post and I guess your right. I put pencil to paper and to break the record it'd have to look something like this (loose #s):

Miggy: 50

Vmart: 50

JD: 35

Cespedes: 35

Nick: 25

Avila/Holiday/McCann: 25

Gose/Davis: 25 (too high but I didn't want to redo the math)

Kinsler/Iggy: 20

Collins/Moya: 20

Perez/Romine: 10

This equals 270 which makes the Mariners number seem even more insane.

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