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Suicide (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter johnjohn
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El Floppo
Footballguy
they're there to listen- help them understand.
I know wikkid is vocal opponent (or at least, I think he is), but I'm a big fan of talking to somebody trained to listen who isn't tied to your situation. I find that the act of explaining makes things much clearer in my own mind- and often creates solutions without the therapist (I've never talked to a priest) having to do much more than ask some questions.
I genuinely wish I could offer more/better advice for you gb- but I know the gang and I are all here for you and ready to support the crap out of you.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
LOVE the talking cure. After my two comedy plays were staged in Boston in the 70s, the first serious play i attempted was called The Talking Cure on W.H.R Rivers, the first doctor to use it to help WW1 survivors with shellshock, and his therapy sessions with immense soldier/poets Siegfried Sassoon & Wilfred Owen (grrrreat story - wikkid say check it). It's the practitioners i have trouble with. The outgrowth of the Freudian model of psychiatry is too focused on searching out illness over building health - how they still call it a science after 100 yrs without developing consensus models of health is beyond me - and the new gen is too quick on the trigger with pills & excuses & everything being a disease (the brain is far too plastic for anything but the most debilitating organic disorders not to be overridden).
A human being can master his every moment on this planet if given the freedom & method to do so. Furthermore, she can master her need for mastery and become the kind of being toward which we have always been evolving. Right now. Centuries ago, we had to have victory on top of victory just to stay alive. Now most of us share our victories with others if we have them at all. We are a sideways race after 4.5 billion years of forward progress. We are not adjusting. The wonderful thing is that the victory we need most is victory over ourselves and that is achievable in a tactile way. Right now. "How do you feel about that?" doesn't get you there, which is why i consider it a dinosaur.
But just because i have a car doesn't mean bicycling can't be wonderful, healthy fun. Good for you.
Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. If you have pain, seek relief. Courage is smart only when it relieves suffering. Courage is stupid when it is done for no positive result. Whether it's from trauma, grief, bad upbringing, bad morals, bad luck, whatever - if you are in pain, seek the end of your pain. NEVER choose to suffer. Talk to someone, the more care & capacity to help they have the better. nufced
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bosoxs45
Footballguy
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Essentially, how you think is how you WILL feel. Everything begins with a thought. That thought naturally leads to feeling. That feeling leads to behaviour/acting on that thought. For example, someone who is suicidal has the thought there is nothing left for me. This thought leads to feeling of deep despair. This feeling of deep despair then leads to acting on the feeling unless an intervention of sort, whether the person himself or other outside factor, changes that thought by ultimately showing it's not an accurate thought today. The mood starts to lift when the person starts to realise, yes, my life counts. Now the behaviour/act becomes to act on that recognition, build on it by replacing the former dark thought using support people, therapy, meds- whatever helps. That can take some time to feel a big difference and usually does which is where surrounding yourself with only positive helpful people/situations the best you can comes in to help keep your mind there. It's a work in progress each and every day for everyone, but esp for those who have such struggles.
I've had many dark days with my cancer stuff and can still have them with se's that are relentless or complications that come up so I realise it's easy to say to another person how to do it but doing isn't always easy. I think we are programmed more toward seeing things worse than they are because of the news. Majority of people tune in to the news. Everything is bad. Things that haven't happened yet they make it sound like it is so watch out! That's why if the news turns dark to making anxiety rise, I'll watch something else or mute the tv until it's passed.
For me, it was easy to think omg this is it with some of the things in my cancer profile as I learned about them, and I did at times. CBT is basically changing your thoughts. It's not denying that what is making you down isn't real to you or could become real. What it is is a reality check on your thought TODAY. Has it happened? If so then you move to dealing with it the best way you can. Is it preventable/in your control, move to changing things. Merely acting in a positive way to help your situation will put you in a better mood because you are doing something about it. If your thought hasn't transpired, you should realise that you've put the cart before the horse. It hasn't happened. It very well may never happen. Once your realise that reality, that alone does help improve your mood. One phrase that you hear in people who struggle with this is the old "yes, but." YES I understand what you are saying BUT you just don't understand.... and around the circle you go. Only you can break that circle with your thoughts, and why not? Some people stay going round and round even though their worries never transpired, they just find new ones and off we go again. We all need to live for today, focus on today. No one knows what tomorrow brings and that shouldn't be read as a negative. Tomorrow has just of a great chance of being a great day for you so why not look at it this way instead?
Also, I think the thought that you are going to/determined take control of these bad thoughts should be uplifting. View it like a challenge. Most people like challenges. It's not easy. If it were it wouldn't be a challenge. You're going to kick it's ### because it's not something that is reality in this moment, and we all should live in the moment.
Anyway, I know I ramble and go off in different directions- but I hope I shed some light for you. xx
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CurlyNight
Footballguy
Melancholy refers to a gloomy state of mind. No rhyme or reason can be pointed out for it's cause. This is depression and not of the "garden" variety. We all have depression from time to time, but it's usually attributed to something and eventually it passes with time, therapy, whatever. It passes and you are back to being your old self. You know what the issue(s) is. Loss of a loved one, loss of a job, marriage, etc. Then you have clinical depression/major depression (melancholy) where you can't quite point to what is bringing you down, or you know what the issue is and after trying and trying for a long time, you're still where you are with no relief. Needs to be going on for 6 mo straight with no relief I believe before you get classified as clinically depressed, But that doesn't mean you're untreatable or hopeless. If you are in this group then meds + therapy + good support will help you immensely, along with what I said above with the staying away from negative stuff the best you can. So sadness is normal and people with time bounce back eventually with or without assitance, but melancholy is another term for major depression that really needs to be addressed by a psychiatrist who can rx meds and send you to therapy.bosoxs45 said:
glock
"Don't grumble, give a whistle!"
To piggy back a little here: CBT can provide the tools to help take one from that pain/anguish that threatens to push one over the edge- call that a 10 on a scale of 1-10- and nudge it down to say an 8. Not great, but the absolute desperation is gone, and further work can be done to take it down further. Doing a class right now to support my son in his efforts to do just this, and hopefully much more.
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CurlyNight
Footballguy
CBT is something everyone should practice every day as things come up, and not just when you are/have reached the depths of despair. It's not just for people who are actively struggling. It's a good way of thinking to help keep yourself in check. It becomes much harder to dialback when you get close to your end.To piggy back a little here: CBT can provide the tools to help take one from that pain/anguish that threatens to push one over the edge- call that a 10 on a scale of 1-10- and nudge it down to say an 8. Not great, but the absolute desperation is gone, and further work can be done to take it down further. Doing a class right now to support my son in his efforts to do just this, and hopefully much more.
Best wishes for your son. xx
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
What is the name of the podcast?
* I am drinking way to much. Its not good and I know it but I keep doing it.
wazoo11
Footballguy
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
CurlyNight
Footballguy
I don't recall anyone here saying they don't have insurance but in case you don't and that's getting in the way of receiving therapy, meds... this is a good site to check out for anxiety and depression.
https://www.adaa.org/finding-help/treatment/low-cost-treatment
https://www.adaa.org/finding-help/treatment/low-cost-treatment
Max Power
Footballguy
Today isn't a suicide day for me. But I do have them. I feel hopeless when I look at the facts.
Mid 30s. I played football for 11 years from 8-19. I've had my fair share of concussions. Probably at least 4 diagnosed. Several were "shake it off"
I joined the Military at 19 and deployed to a combat zone shortly after. I've been with the military ever since. I've spent over 3 years deployed to combat zones. I likely have a form of PTSD.
Both my grandmothers were diagnosed with Alzheimers.
I've "solved" all these problems by becoming an alcoholic. It ended up causing problems in my relationship and I quit as best I could. My wife is with the kids on a summer vacation with her family. I have to work until wednesday until I can go down and be with them. Being alone hurts. I have to turn to the bottle as I have nothing else. I also know this drives a bigger wedge between the wife and I.
I just want to feel normal and happy. There is no light at the end of the tunnel some days.
Mid 30s. I played football for 11 years from 8-19. I've had my fair share of concussions. Probably at least 4 diagnosed. Several were "shake it off"
I joined the Military at 19 and deployed to a combat zone shortly after. I've been with the military ever since. I've spent over 3 years deployed to combat zones. I likely have a form of PTSD.
Both my grandmothers were diagnosed with Alzheimers.
I've "solved" all these problems by becoming an alcoholic. It ended up causing problems in my relationship and I quit as best I could. My wife is with the kids on a summer vacation with her family. I have to work until wednesday until I can go down and be with them. Being alone hurts. I have to turn to the bottle as I have nothing else. I also know this drives a bigger wedge between the wife and I.
I just want to feel normal and happy. There is no light at the end of the tunnel some days.
prosopis
Arizona Chupacabra
I wish I had something wise to say, I dont. Sometimes I feel better just saying something like you did and knowing someone heard it. I did read this and I heard it with a sympathetic ear. I know how you feel. Wednesday is two days away which is better then three. Hang in there I am rooting for you and me.
Max Power
Footballguy
Thank you PRO. I'm going to bed tonight watching something like the league, its always sunny, archer, or the office. This is my comfort zone. Mindless humor with familiar faces.prosopis said:
As dumb as it sounds, an article like this which was meant in jest hurts more than it should. http://deadspin.com/why-your-team-sucks-2017-chicago-bears-1797391407\.
Im rambling...
I dont hate them for it, but Deadspin should look at itself. Its a fun piece for 99 percent of the crowd.
kutta
Footballguy
You should know there are a lot of people out there, myself included, who truly do appreciate what you do. It's not just words. Without guys like you serving in combat zones, who knows what our homeland looks like. You are entitled to any and all help you need, and I hope you can get it.Max Power said:
So thank you. Really. Thank you for your service. It is very much appreciated.
Max Power
Footballguy
I appreciate hearing that. I just wish the VA felt the same. They make the process very complicated and drawn out and often reward the wrong people. Loss of range of motion in your left shoulder is graded the same as your brain, when in reality its not so black and white. Not sure what the answer is, but I think we're failing at it as a nation.
chet
Footballguy
Start with your desire to feel normal and happy. IMO, that's a very positive sign and is a great start to recovery. It's probably not easy, but are there some resources you can tap into on your base? A combination of the right meds and counseling is the next step. Forgive me if you've discussed this already--I tend to check this thread sporadically.Max Power said:
kutta
Footballguy
I agree. I work with a lot of vets in my line of work, and they say the same thing. It's really a travesty.
Max Power
Footballguy
no no no... you're good. I just recently started here. Maybe 6 months ago.
I'm one of the few who get stuck between a rock and a hard place. I work in military intel which requires a security screening every 5 years. If you say you need mental help that a strike against you. Regardless of what they preach. Meds get counted against you as does counseling.
Some days I feel backed into a corner. I can maintain. I'm not crazy, I'm not going to hurt anyone and Im very good at my job. I just don't have the outlet at work that probably should be offered.
The most screwed up part of this situation is that I can go to Canada or Australia and be taken in with their intel service. Called a traitor, but be cared for...
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Chet's right - if you want to feel happy, you are normal.
Rock & a hard place is right. Maintaining an even strain is keeping you from maintaining an even strain. Oy....
Listen, i have a lot of words in the last dozen or so pgs of this thread. If what i have to say in them appeals to you, i'd be honored for the opportunity to knock it around with you by PM. At most, I'll show you how to run your brain, or keep it from running you. At least, i'll be a sympathetic ear with a capacity for fancily-worded reply. If not, GL. I wish you well
Rock & a hard place is right. Maintaining an even strain is keeping you from maintaining an even strain. Oy....
Listen, i have a lot of words in the last dozen or so pgs of this thread. If what i have to say in them appeals to you, i'd be honored for the opportunity to knock it around with you by PM. At most, I'll show you how to run your brain, or keep it from running you. At least, i'll be a sympathetic ear with a capacity for fancily-worded reply. If not, GL. I wish you well
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chet
Footballguy
I get it but maybe it's time to reconsider whether being in military intel is the right spot for you. I am not an expert but I'd think your skills would be valuable in the private sector. Maybe a transfer to a different part of the military might also work.
Max Power
Footballguy
So I 100% agree. I finally went and got a professional resume writer. There is a strip mall near me opening up soon and I I'm going to try hard for all those manager jobs (I have the schooling and experience). I'm leaving a 90k a year job with 130k after a combat zone deployment. I could take 75k with normal hours.
Am I out of my range with asking?
ETA: A top secret clearance will run a company 40K for the investigation. So hiring someone who has it saves them that much... And is in turn rewarded in salary...
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Max Power
Footballguy
chet
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
I dont know any. It just sucks. I'm not a loon. I dont want to hurt myself or other people. I love my wife and kids. I'm good at most things I do, but some days I just want to go to sleep forever.
that sounds worse than it really is. Im ok....
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Have you googled ex military jobs/recruiters? You have quite a background. There are places that want to help veterans. If you haven't tried the online searches yet, hope it helps. Good luck to you. xxx
Johnnymac
Footballguy
I dont have the answer for you but I will say you should NOT be drinking alcohol of any kind. I know that you probably know that, but I cannot stress this enough. If you feel the need to "escape", try marijuana. Does the VA even use medical marijuana? I'm not a vet but I feel like I should know that.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Congratulations! I'm so excited for you! :confetti:Phew. I was accepted back into my History Master's program for the fall. I will be taking 9 credits on a part time basis.
GilbertGrape
Footballguy
I'm about done.
wazoo11
Footballguy
Yes, I'm very much excited to get back into the classroom. I hope things are different this time around.
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simey
Footballguy
GilbertGrape
Footballguy
Always smart, highest SAT score in a school for gifted kids.
Went to college, got kicked out. Alcoholic, worked in restaurants just to make enough money to drink and have a place to live. Mostly lived with friends.
No real relationships, even though women throw themselves at me. Just wanted to drink enough to keep from killing myself.
Always thought about killing myself. Went to MHMR about it. Was diagnosed with chronic depression. They gave me pills, they didn't work.
In my 30s, decided to do something with my life. Went back to college, started over, finished in 3 years. Phi Beta Kappa.
Went to law school. Was tired from undergrad, so didn't do so well. But, good enough, you have to try REALLY hard to fail. Passed the bar. Barely, but it's a moderately difficult state.
Could not get a job. Networked, had people say this firm is hiring like crazy, nothing. Law school doesn't teach you how to be a lawyer, it teaches you how to think like a lawyer. Had a mentor in law school, he died of stomach cancer while I was still there.
Ran out of money. Retreated to live with a sister. REALLY ran out of money, had 11 dollars which I was going to use for a 6 pack and some razor blades.
Different sister emails me job posting on Craigslist. $30 an hour, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week for a month. Sure. I need the money.
Month goes by. I'm contract. My agency calls and says out of the 16 lawyers they hired, me and 3 others are staying.
Move directly to an operational division in the company. One of the managers realizes I'm a lawyer, asks for help. I help.
After a year, they let the other guys go. At this point I'm solving problems that are costing them tens of thousands of dollars a day. They have expensive outside counsel for this, OM&M. I work with them, but I'm better.
Propose a solution to a huge problem to the board. Accepted. They love me. They interview me for a job which will make me three times as much money as I've ever made in a year before. They move me to another department. They're setting it up.
Labor day or Memorial day, I don't remember which, I go insane. Do things that I never would have done, say things that I never would have said, in and out of work. Lost 2 pounds a day for 5 days, without doing anything different. Lasts about 7 days.
Get fired for inappropriate behavior. I hadn't been formally hired, so easy for them. I can't get any references from anyone there.
Live for a year on savings. Try to go out on my own. Doesn't work. Interview with law firms. They're horribly biased on age. Have great phone interviews, then go to an office full of 20 year olds and get shut down.
Go to a psychologist. He says it's perfectionism. Sounds plausible. I buy some books. Doesn't help.
Find out I have Diabetes type 2 and cirrhosis type fatal. Yay.
Try to stop drinking. Really try. Only sleep for 4 hours in a week.
Go to PES (Psychiatric Emergency Services). They ask good suicide questions. After waiting for hours, meet with a psychiatrist. He wants me to tell him what happened when I was fired from my good job. I tell him. He asks: Did this happen, did you feel like this? Yes. He says you have Bipolar Disease type One. I didn't even know there were two types. One is the worse one. I discover this when I'm 46 years old.
Fall into despair, take horrible jobs that don't pay anything. Still drink, ignore the diabetes.
I'm about done.
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kutta
Footballguy
Sorry to hear that Grape.
Serious question - have you thought about a complete change of scene, a complete change of life? My brother moved to Mexico a year ago and absolutely loves it. He lives super cheaply, barely works, and just enjoys life. I've been tempted to look into something similar at times. It sure seems better than some of the potential alternatives.
simey
Footballguy
Are you on any medications for the bipolar? If not, meds for your diagnosis would help balance your mind, and that will give you some clarity and hopefully motivation to live life. Sometimes it takes awhile to get the meds right. Also, maybe get another opinion on the diagnosis just to see what another thinks. Right now it appears you want to be done since you are ignoring your diabetes and still drinking with cirrhosis.
My SIL was diagnosed with bipolar 1 many years ago, but three years ago it was determined she wasn't bipolar, but suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder. You can be both. She has to take meds for it or else she becomes unhinged. Even on the meds she can have extreme emotional reactions to things, but it helps with the depression part and control her moods better.
If you can take some steps to get yourself healthier with your body and mind, what Kutta suggested isn't a bad idea. Go somewhere that the american dollar stretches and you'll be under less stress to make ends meet. It could be another country or small town America. I wish you peace of mind and happiness, Gilbert. I hope you give yourself another chance before calling it a life.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Your call. Doesn't sound like you've connected with life a whole bunch. May be your fault, may be life's, guessing it's about half&half.
Just wanted to say that there's a reason the human cerebral cortex is the culmination of 4.5 billion years of earthly progress, God's divine plan or both. It is as elastic as Cirque du Soleil and can turn everything on a dime. Because of just that, a slave who is regularly raped to sleep can be happier than a celebrity billionaire living the dream. So nothing in our world has to be the way it is.
There's little doubt you're smart. Smart enough to find enthusiasms as deftly as excuses? I read back into your post history and i've never seen so many one-line responses. And none of them glib. The opinion, concise, correctly conceived, committed, done. Shows chops, willingness. Is life, are we, too silly for more?
Forget the patient you're looking to become. You almost certainly will be unhappy as him. Rediscover the probably-delightful person who fell into all those traps and try again with him. At least one more try, eh, because life actually is a miracle? Downsize, like kutta & simey say? Reprioritize, use that excellent melon for your own sake instead of the stupid judgement of others? One more time, f'real this time, for life's sake, not just to survive but to be excellent - whaddya think? Need to bat it around, holla.
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El Floppo
Footballguy
damn... sorry to hear about all of this GG.
I'll echo all three of the previous posters and ask what happened after your bipolar diagnosis? did you get treatment, meds, therapy, something? I would guess that having an answer/diagnosis as to what's going on would be a help rather than not knowing and stumbling in the dark. and after that, getting help to treat the diagnosis seems like steps towards something better.
and what about the cirrhosis? are you on any teatment for that?
I'll echo all three of the previous posters and ask what happened after your bipolar diagnosis? did you get treatment, meds, therapy, something? I would guess that having an answer/diagnosis as to what's going on would be a help rather than not knowing and stumbling in the dark. and after that, getting help to treat the diagnosis seems like steps towards something better.
and what about the cirrhosis? are you on any teatment for that?
GilbertGrape
Footballguy
Been in therapy for three years. Not really doing that much good. Take lithium for bipolar. It works fine unless you take too much, then it makes your hands shake. There is no treatment for cirrhosis other than to stop drinking. Or get a new one. Thank you all for your posts.
GilbertGrape
Footballguy
Yes, I'm on lithium. I have been for a couple of years. If on a scale from 1-10 a normal person is a 7 for mood, lithium brings me from 0 to about 5. But it's a huge improvement. My diagnosis has been confirmed by 3 psychiatrists. And I know I have it anyway, and I'll tell you why. When I was first diagnosed, my main complaint was severe insomnia. Staying awake for a week and only getting 4 hours of sleep will make even a normal person a little/lot crazy. So they prescribed me seroquel. Which helps you sleep, in addition to treating bipolar symptoms. Problem was, it made me sleep too much. I started being late to work. So I did exactly the wrong thing, and just quit taking it. I don't remember if it was the next morning or the second, but I woke up wanting to die. Literally. It's really hard to explain, it's kind of like when you get the flu and your body aches all over, but it's your mind. I made a plan, was going to execute it in 2 days. I couldn't live like that. But then I told somebody, and got sent back to PES where they gave me lithium, which is cheap and works.simey said:
Problem is, I thought it was the worst feeling I'd ever had in my life. But it wasn't. I felt like that most of the time, my whole life. The reasons I didn't act on it were:
1. I thought everybody felt like that and I was just being a wuss.
2. I didn't want to hurt my family and friends. But now my Father is dead, and he was the one I was most reluctant to hurt.
3. Alcohol. If you drink enough, it makes your mind turn off and you can't kill yourself. I would have been dead 30 years ago if I hadn't used it. Because bipolar type 1 can only be diagnosed when you have a manic event. Most people have them in their teens and twenties. Mine didn't happen until I was 46. Unfortunate. Now I understand that Jimi Hendrix song a lot better.
And when you're 50, your friends are basically in two groups. The ones who have kids, and the ones that don't and travel all the time instead. Or some are retired. I've been working since I was 10 years old. I'm just really tired.
I will pm Kutta though, his idea is interesting. I really appreciate you taking the time to read and respond.
GilbertGrape
Footballguy
I just want to say that I really respect you as a poster. I'm honored that you read my posts and responded.wikkidpissah said:
CurlyNight
Footballguy
GilbertGrape
Footballguy
Doh. Kutta cannot receive messages. That's ok, I'm used to it.
kutta
Footballguy
Try again. I had a bunch from the t-shirt thread and it was full. Should be good now.
CurlyNight
Footballguy
Oh man, so sorry to hear. I simply cannot imagine going through something like this, esp at a young age. I wouldn't be surprised if he felt ashamed for having depression. It's not like today where MI has become forefront and is spoken about. Back then it was kept inside the house where you were told to snap out of it. Popping pills, seeking therapy were seen by many as for the "weak." Thankfully there's been some progress in this arena..shifty said:
It's very true that someone cares about you even if you don't, or don't see it. At the very least, you have members on this board who do care. Many of us have been there or have been involved with a loved one who had such struggles, so you're never alone.
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