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johnjohn

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I heard they are putting a huge net under the Golden Gate Bridge to prevent jumpers. Anyone from California on here have an opinion on this?

I grew up in the town on the North end of the GG Bridge- knew at least one person who jumped (girl my age who lived up the street).

I am always astonished at how low the fence between the walkway and the drop is. IIRC, there is massive resistance to changing any aesthetics of the bridge, including raising the height of the railing or adding glass or some kind of screen to make it less easy to jump. But for me- that has always seemed like the best answer.

I assume the net would go right below the roadway, projecting out enough to catch anybody trying to jump. Not sure what would keep somebody willing to throw themselves over the edge of the bridge the first time from climbing up the net and doing it all over again. But I"m interested in hearing more.

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I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

If you're planning on arguing the latter, please consider doing so elsewhere.

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I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

I bet the retrieval/recovery cost is a factor here as well.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?
If you're planning on arguing the latter, please consider doing so elsewhere.

Im simply asking the opinion of a qualified professional. I had no intention of taking it further than that. Dont be so fast to jump to conclusions.

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Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Have you ever made it up?

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I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

I bet the retrieval/recovery cost is a factor here as well.

The GG Bridge is a global attraction for suicide, so there's a public interest in making it less appealing. There have been well more than 1,000 suicides off of the bridge.

Recovery cost and other issues certainly factor. I think one big factor is the number of people who have survived suicide attempts, not just those who jump off the GG Bridge, who realize immediately after they jump, kick the chair out, whatever, that this was not the right choice.

Who knows if the $76 million (certain to double as any good Bay Area public improvement does) will change anything, but I think there are enough professionals who feel that it's worth trying.

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I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

I bet the retrieval/recovery cost is a factor here as well.

I would think that if people know there is a safety net there and there's no way to do it that would send them somewhere else if they are determined to do so. Part of it for some may be that since the GG is a huge tourist attraction and a landmark in SF that it appeals to some to go out at a place like this. JMO.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.

Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.

Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.

Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.
Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".

Not something anyone can understand til they have experienced it long term

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.
Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".

Not something anyone can understand til they have experienced it long term

Exactly. I hate it when I hear people give advice on what helped them after you tell them this case is not like yours. It's not a 1 size fits all like pretty much physical problems are where there is something that will help you even if it won't cure it. There are plenty of folks who have tried all kinds of meds, therapy, etc and nothing helps. To say well you need to get out more or something like that, arm chair psychology, is actually a slap in the face for those who are truly struggling. Unless you've been there or have close up and personal experience with this, you can't compare to someone else.

Also with ME, it's usually not a single diagnosis. So to find meds/cocktail whatever that work is even harder or may not happen at all for some.

Edited by CurlyNight
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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.
Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".

Not something anyone can understand til they have experienced it long term

Yeah- I guess I agree.

I just don't see why somebody would need to suffer it, to believe that it's real. (not saying that's what you're saying- just frustrated with that type of usual trollish kind of replies hot-button topics like depression usually instigate in a place like this)

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I have known two people, that I know of, commit suicide. The girl was a pretty ~17 year old, intelligent young lady. I am not sure exactly why she went through with it. The guy was ~40, religious, but had family issues. Not sure if this was an exact cause or if there was something else going on.

I have also known of one kid to be murdered. That number is only going to rise as long as I stay a teacher.

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Henry, Sheik: Damn glad you're both still here. :thumbup:

Wow. I'm just catching up on this thread after many months. I don't know Sheik as well, but I can certainly say I'm not only glad you both suck at killing yourselves but that you are both brave enough to talk about this. Bringing depression and suicidal thoughts out of the darkness and realizing how common they are is crucial to prevention.

Henry, I did a lot of reading after my grandmother killed herself, and your words about just getting rid of the pain were so true. Studies on suicide survivors clearly show that the pain becomes a physical pain from which people just need a relief--any relief. It's what makes me so angry when people say that suicidal people are "cowardly", "selfish" or looking for "an easy way out". In people suffering from depression it can be a physical pain for which there seem to be no other solutions.

It's still amazing to me that people are sympathetic to those suffering from cancer or other disease but don't understand depression or other psychological issues as also being a disease. It's why people are still ashamed to admit they suffer from it. I think and hope that that is changing, and you guys being so open about your issues are helping that cause.

:thumbup: to both of you.

Edited by krista4
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Usually there is a lot more going on than we can see or even they can say. Sometimes you hear what they say and you think, but why and do this or that. Sometimes it's not that easy nor can be understood, so the best thing to do is be compassionate when you run into such situations and let the person talk without judgement or advice that they've clearly stated isn't doing it for them. It is worse for them if you are "fighting" the enormity of their situation, which can push them further. Don't ignore them, just be there and be compassionate without judgement is the best you can do for someone who is seriously struggling.

Also many along with severe depression/anxiety suffer physical pain in which it's psychosomatic, and therefore no pill or procedure is going to fix. So it really is a lot of suffering for many.

Edited by CurlyNight
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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

You are wonderful. :)

I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

I bet the retrieval/recovery cost is a factor here as well.

The GG Bridge is a global attraction for suicide, so there's a public interest in making it less appealing. There have been well more than 1,000 suicides off of the bridge.

Recovery cost and other issues certainly factor. I think one big factor is the number of people who have survived suicide attempts, not just those who jump off the GG Bridge, who realize immediately after they jump, kick the chair out, whatever, that this was not the right choice.

Who knows if the $76 million (certain to double as any good Bay Area public improvement does) will change anything, but I think there are enough professionals who feel that it's worth trying.

Yep, bold is exactly right.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.
Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".
Not something anyone can understand til they have experienced it long term

Yeah- I guess I agree.

I just don't see why somebody would need to suffer it, to believe that it's real. (not saying that's what you're saying- just frustrated with that type of usual trollish kind of replies hot-button topics like depression usually instigate in a place like this)

Because they cant see it and because they dont want to believe it could happen to them one day

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I guess then the question is what is the cost of a human life? Many of those who do it could have been saved if only someone noticed/paid attention... I live in the Bay Area and should there be a tax on the ballet to help cover the GG net, I'd vote for it. Most folks committing suicide are on the younger side who do have their whole lives ahead of them. This is tragic.

Edited by CurlyNight
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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.
Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".
Not something anyone can understand til they have experienced it long term

Yeah- I guess I agree.

I just don't see why somebody would need to suffer it, to believe that it's real. (not saying that's what you're saying- just frustrated with that type of usual trollish kind of replies hot-button topics like depression usually instigate in a place like this)

Because they cant see it and because they dont want to believe it could happen to them one day

That's a better outlook than mine... I just assume they're self-centered #######s, incapable of empathy, much less sympathy.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

It is a legitimate disability as many do suffer debilitizing depression, which there is usually anxiety accompanied by it. If there is one, the other is present to some degree. I don't know why anyone, even if lazy, would fake debilitating depression it. It is painful and if you go into that role, you will become that which you act after awhile because you'd have to change your thinking in order to fool professionals like that.
Thank you. I neglected to mention the comorbid conditions that go along with it. People who arent depressed have no reason to fake it and it likely wouldnt even occur to them. It would be too much of a charade for anyone to keep up all the time

Exactly. Why would you want to fake being so miserable for the amount of time that is required for it to become considered a disability? Mental pain is just as painful or sometimes more so than many physical diseases.

Because there are people out there who refuse to believe debilitating depression is real; they've been "depressed" (eg: when somebody close to them dies, etc) and they were able to suffer through- even though they're "depressed".
Not something anyone can understand til they have experienced it long term

Yeah- I guess I agree.

I just don't see why somebody would need to suffer it, to believe that it's real. (not saying that's what you're saying- just frustrated with that type of usual trollish kind of replies hot-button topics like depression usually instigate in a place like this)

Because they cant see it and because they dont want to believe it could happen to them one day

That's a better outlook than mine... I just assume they're self-centered #######s, incapable of empathy, much less sympathy.

You are correct, I was just trying to explain it. They compare everything to their own lives and cant or refuse to accept that there is so much they will never experience and know nothing about.

Feeling any empathy would destroy the bubble they have built around themselves. It would remove the illusion that they are the center of the universe. If they believe others can be victims of illness or circumstance they might believe they could be too and they cant handle that so they dismiss anything that challenges their world view as a fabrication.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

• Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

• Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

• Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

• Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

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Because they cant see it and because they dont want to believe it could happen to them one day

That's a better outlook than mine... I just assume they're self-centered #######s, incapable of empathy, much less sympathy.You are correct, I was just trying to explain it. They compare everything to their own lives and cant or refuse to accept that there is so much they will never experience and know nothing about.

Feeling any empathy would destroy the bubble they have built around themselves. It would remove the illusion that they are the center of the universe. If they believe others can be victims of illness or circumstance they might believe they could be too and they cant handle that so they dismiss anything that challenges their world view as a fabrication.

You are talking about axis II personality disorder, and it really deserves its own thread, and not to clutter this one

Seems I Fked up the quote boxes here......the green is my response!

Edited by Parmcat
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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

Resistant to therapy or RESISTIVE to therapy?

This sounds to be a deeper issue. Why depressed your whole life?

May be something to look into

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

Resistant to therapy or RESISTIVE to therapy?

This sounds to be a deeper issue. Why depressed your whole life?

May be something to look into

Not sure what the difference between resistant or resistive in this context is. If you want to know more we can talk in PM about it, i will message you tomorrow if you like

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

Resistant to therapy or RESISTIVE to therapy?

This sounds to be a deeper issue. Why depressed your whole life?

May be something to look into

Not sure what the difference between resistant or resistive in this context is. If you want to know more we can talk in PM about it, i will message you tomorrow if you like

Resistant would be if you have done extensive therapy, and it has done nothing at all. Resistive would be if you feel you can deal on your own, and refuse to go for the help.

I am always open to pms anytime!

Parm

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I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

I bet the retrieval/recovery cost is a factor here as well.

The GG Bridge is a global attraction for suicide, so there's a public interest in making it less appealing. There have been well more than 1,000 suicides off of the bridge.

Recovery cost and other issues certainly factor. I think one big factor is the number of people who have survived suicide attempts, not just those who jump off the GG Bridge, who realize immediately after they jump, kick the chair out, whatever, that this was not the right choice.

Who knows if the $76 million (certain to double as any good Bay Area public improvement does) will change anything, but I think there are enough professionals who feel that it's worth trying.

For $76 million they could have hired a full time team of psychologist to hang out on the top of the bridge 24/7 to talk down jumpers.

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I think if someone is hell bent on committing suicide, they'll find a way. If that bridge is out, then some other means. I think it's a good idea considering it's been said it's the #1 place folks do it. They probably won't succeed and will be given another chance to think about it.

I bet the retrieval/recovery cost is a factor here as well.

The GG Bridge is a global attraction for suicide, so there's a public interest in making it less appealing. There have been well more than 1,000 suicides off of the bridge.

Recovery cost and other issues certainly factor. I think one big factor is the number of people who have survived suicide attempts, not just those who jump off the GG Bridge, who realize immediately after they jump, kick the chair out, whatever, that this was not the right choice.

Who knows if the $76 million (certain to double as any good Bay Area public improvement does) will change anything, but I think there are enough professionals who feel that it's worth trying.

For $76 million they could have hired a full time team of psychologist to hang out on the top of the bridge 24/7 to talk down jumpers.

Or police. If police are present nearby, arrive, or within sight that usually puts the kabash on a lot of this stuff.

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I heard they are putting a huge net under the Golden Gate Bridge to prevent jumpers. Anyone from California on here have an opinion on this?

I grew up in the town on the North end of the GG Bridge- knew at least one person who jumped (girl my age who lived up the street).

I am always astonished at how low the fence between the walkway and the drop is. IIRC, there is massive resistance to changing any aesthetics of the bridge, including raising the height of the railing or adding glass or some kind of screen to make it less easy to jump. But for me- that has always seemed like the best answer.

I assume the net would go right below the roadway, projecting out enough to catch anybody trying to jump. Not sure what would keep somebody willing to throw themselves over the edge of the bridge the first time from climbing up the net and doing it all over again. But I"m interested in hearing more.

I think the best argument against this solution is the wind-resistance argument. The GG Bridge is 4,000 feet long and shifts with the wind. Any changes in the structure that would cause additional wind resistance are dangerous, especially when winds really whip up.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

Resistant to therapy or RESISTIVE to therapy?

This sounds to be a deeper issue. Why depressed your whole life?

May be something to look into

Not sure what the difference between resistant or resistive in this context is. If you want to know more we can talk in PM about it, i will message you tomorrow if you like

Resistant would be if you have done extensive therapy, and it has done nothing at all. Resistive would be if you feel you can deal on your own, and refuse to go for the help.

I am always open to pms anytime!

Parm

My wife is on the resistant end. We have been dealing with her clinical depression and the anxiety which has now led to agoraphobia for over a decade. Nothing seems to really work. The best we get is where she doesn't feel completely awful each day. She won't leave the house unless she has to and then only if I am with her. I guess I am the security blanket. Plus I have dealt with her anxiety attacks first hand. They can last hours. It's horrible as there is nothing I can do. I'm ashamed to admit that sometimes I have even gotten angry over it. You know you just hit a wall at some point. Then I get to feel like a schmuck for a while because I know better. But it's tough sledding some times.

And for the people who don't understand because they haven't been there? That's human nature. They aren't terrible people in the main they just don't get it and they won't until it happens to them.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

Resistant to therapy or RESISTIVE to therapy?

This sounds to be a deeper issue. Why depressed your whole life?

May be something to look into

Not sure what the difference between resistant or resistive in this context is. If you want to know more we can talk in PM about it, i will message you tomorrow if you like

Resistant would be if you have done extensive therapy, and it has done nothing at all. Resistive would be if you feel you can deal on your own, and refuse to go for the help.

I am always open to pms anytime!

Parm

My wife is on the resistant end. We have been dealing with her clinical depression and the anxiety which has now led to agoraphobia for over a decade. Nothing seems to really work. The best we get is where she doesn't feel completely awful each day. She won't leave the house unless she has to and then only if I am with her. I guess I am the security blanket. Plus I have dealt with her anxiety attacks first hand. They can last hours. It's horrible as there is nothing I can do. I'm ashamed to admit that sometimes I have even gotten angry over it. You know you just hit a wall at some point. Then I get to feel like a schmuck for a while because I know better. But it's tough sledding some times.

And for the people who don't understand because they haven't been there? That's human nature. They aren't terrible people in the main they just don't get it and they won't until it happens to them.

I think it's important to remember when you hit that "tough sledding" that just like you're as patient as you can be because you remember that she can't control her anxiety/depression/agoraphobia, you need to be patient with yourself, too, because you can't control your compassion fatigue/frustration/exhaustion with the issue.

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I have been a psych nurse for 22 years. The last 17 I have been on an adolescent ward with teens with multiple issues. It is tough, and that age group is so impressionable, and don't think of the repercussions. Most times, they are "para-suicidal" and are looking for help because home or whatever is the problem.

Last week, 3 of my in-patients made a pact, that they were all going to hang themselves.. They decided to all try it at the same time, to throw off the staff, and create confusion. They almost succeeded, and it was awful, because it was a real serious, well thought out attempt.

I have also been on the other side though. I have never been suicidal, but I have suffered from a severe depressive episode and PTSD that sucked the life out of me.

Depression is a monster, and I can't stress enough, that if you feel like you are struggling, and your mood is low, talk to someone...anyone! Don't hide it, as it can get so bad that your mind will torture you.

I now know, there is no shame at all in admitting you need help. I am lucky to have an amazing wife, who is also a psych nurse, and support was not an issue. My kids were the all the motivation I needed to get better.

I am always open to chat or answer questions anytime!

Parm

Would you say that clinical depression is a legitimate disability or just something lazy people make up?

Wow this thread took off again.

To answer your question, it IS a legitimate disability here in Ontario. Sometimes that "lazy person" just may be suffering themselves.

With that being said, I think that depression may be just a tad over diagnosed, similar to the ADHD or ADD epidemic in young school aged children. As always, if there is a loophole, and people CAN scam their employers, there will be people that do it. Now clinical depression (or Major Depressive Disorder) is the real beast. It is more them being sad because your cat died (in most cases).

The criteria for that diagnosis is this:

DSM-IV Criteria for Major Depressive Disorder (MDD)

Depressed mood or a loss of interest or pleasure in daily activities for more than two weeks.

Mood represents a change from the person's baseline.

Impaired function: social, occupational, educational.

Specific symptoms, at least 5 of these 9, present nearly every day:

1. Depressed mood or irritable most of the day, nearly every day, as indicated by either subjective report

(e.g., feels sad or empty) or observation made by others (e.g., appears tearful).

2. Decreased interest or pleasure in most activities, most of each day

3. Significant weight change (5%) or change in appetite

4. Change in sleep: Insomnia or hypersomnia

5. Change in activity: Psychomotor agitation or ######ation

6. Fatigue or loss of energy

7. Guilt/worthlessness: Feelings of worthlessness or excessive or inappropriate guilt

8. Concentration: diminished ability to think or concentrate, or more indecisiveness

9. Suicidality: Thoughts of death or suicide, or has suicide plan

Most can say they have had a couple of those feelings at some time, but to experience 5 of them daily for a period of time can make you feel so low, and so scared that you will do a lot of things to end that internal pain.

My episode lasted approx. 5 months, taking high doses of wellbutrin, and seeing a trauma therapist 3 or 4 times a week for 3 months or so. I admit that I thought I could deal with anything at one time, and then this hit me like a truck. I never want to ever feel that way again

What if the depression lasts over 20 years, basically a persons entire life and resistant to therapy and medication culminating in at least 1 suicide attempt but near daily ideation. Do they have a more advanced diagnosis for something like that or is it stil just considered major depressive disorder?

Resistant to therapy or RESISTIVE to therapy?

This sounds to be a deeper issue. Why depressed your whole life?

May be something to look into

Not sure what the difference between resistant or resistive in this context is. If you want to know more we can talk in PM about it, i will message you tomorrow if you like

Resistant would be if you have done extensive therapy, and it has done nothing at all. Resistive would be if you feel you can deal on your own, and refuse to go for the help.

I am always open to pms anytime!

Parm

My wife is on the resistant end. We have been dealing with her clinical depression and the anxiety which has now led to agoraphobia for over a decade. Nothing seems to really work. The best we get is where she doesn't feel completely awful each day. She won't leave the house unless she has to and then only if I am with her. I guess I am the security blanket. Plus I have dealt with her anxiety attacks first hand. They can last hours. It's horrible as there is nothing I can do. I'm ashamed to admit that sometimes I have even gotten angry over it. You know you just hit a wall at some point. Then I get to feel like a schmuck for a while because I know better. But it's tough sledding some times.

And for the people who don't understand because they haven't been there? That's human nature. They aren't terrible people in the main they just don't get it and they won't until it happens to them.

I think it's important to remember when you hit that "tough sledding" that just like you're as patient as you can be because you remember that she can't control her anxiety/depression/agoraphobia, you need to be patient with yourself, too, because you can't control your compassion fatigue/frustration/exhaustion with the issue.

Yeah I know. But we are our toughest critics. So I have trouble letting myself off easy. It's helpful that she understands that I am not really upset with her. It's the situation and the helplessness. I'm a guy, we fix stuff. I can't fix this and I would give a lot to be able to.

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I think it's important to remember when you hit that "tough sledding" that just like you're as patient as you can be because you remember that she can't control her anxiety/depression/agoraphobia, you need to be patient with yourself, too, because you can't control your compassion fatigue/frustration/exhaustion with the issue.

Yeah I know. But we are our toughest critics. So I have trouble letting myself off easy. It's helpful that she understands that I am not really upset with her. It's the situation and the helplessness. I'm a guy, we fix stuff. I can't fix this and I would give a lot to be able to.

I'm sure. It's good that she understands. Hopefully that makes it easier on both of you.

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I think it's important to remember when you hit that "tough sledding" that just like you're as patient as you can be because you remember that she can't control her anxiety/depression/agoraphobia, you need to be patient with yourself, too, because you can't control your compassion fatigue/frustration/exhaustion with the issue.

Yeah I know. But we are our toughest critics. So I have trouble letting myself off easy. It's helpful that she understands that I am not really upset with her. It's the situation and the helplessness. I'm a guy, we fix stuff. I can't fix this and I would give a lot to be able to.

I'm sure. It's good that she understands. Hopefully that makes it easier on both of you.

Well we have our moments but in general we cut each other a lot of slack.

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Never would have thought to search for this thread. I think about it all the time. Just kast night even. No reason to though. Good life, recently married, great lifelong friends and family in the area, healthy, athletic, everyone tells me how nice I am/good guy, etc.

Most of it comes down to this feeling of being overwhelmed with life. Makes me feel like a b!+# but its always been about stress, anxiety, depression since middle school. Meditation, nutrition, weight training has helped but I find less time for those being a new teacher. As a result I'm regressing. Every time I get over burdened this is my thought. Not to work harder or find some way to deal with it. It doesn't make sense. I'm back on an anti depressant for the stress/anxiety and other herbals(adaptagenics). But still every time my wife gets on me for not doing things around the house or taking care of things that I feel are too much I just clam up, say nothing and think about that bottle of Xanax upstairs. So far I always wake up thankful I haven't done it. Love my wife tol much and my 9 month old puppy. Sounds asinine but to pull a FF theme in here I've found dynasty leagues help because its just a tiny thing to look forward to as I want to see how all these guys develop.

Have a sister with bi-ploar that's tried a few times and it creates so much stress on the family. Lots of chemical imbalance or orherwise unhealthy stress responses in my family.

Edited by Bronx Bomber
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parmcat and the rest of you good folks who are offering to help out other people are awesome keep it up and if you are depressed reach out and talk to these people take that to the bank brohans

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damn, BB- rough. and it sounds very similar to my tough, darker times. I've gotta say- and this wasn't my intent for them at all- but my outlook has changed dramatically since having kids. when i'd normally get trapped in that decline, now I look up and realize I've got to keep pushing forward because of them... and it's not even a realization as much as a subconscious imperative- it's just not an option any more, even if times get tough with the wife.

do you see a therapist, or get any counseling?

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Never would have thought to search for this thread. I think about it all the time. Just kast night even. No reason to though. Good life, recently married, great lifelong friends and family in the area, healthy, athletic, everyone tells me how nice I am/good guy, etc.

Most of it comes down to this feeling of being overwhelmed with life. Makes me feel like a b!+# but its always been about stress, anxiety, depression since middle school. Meditation, nutrition, weight training has helped but I find less time for those being a new teacher. As a result I'm regressing. Every time I get over burdened this is my thought. Not to work harder or find some way to deal with it. It doesn't make sense. I'm back on an anti depressant for the stress/anxiety and other herbals(adaptagenics). But still every time my wife gets on me for not doing things around the house or taking care of things that I feel are too much I just clam up, say nothing and think about that bottle of Xanax upstairs. So far I always wake up thankful I haven't done it. Love my wife tol much and my 9 month old puppy. Sounds asinine but to pull a FF theme in here I've found dynasty leagues help because its just a tiny thing to look forward to as I want to see how all these guys develop.

Have a sister with bi-ploar that's tried a few times and it creates so much stress on the family. Lots of chemical imbalance or orherwise unhealthy stress responses in my family.

There is nothing asinine about anything that helps you remember that things develop and change and gives you a bit of hope for the future. I don't care if it's brewing beer, fantasy football, watching your kids or puppy grow up, or growing tomatoes. Anything that you find that helps you remember that the future will be different from now is a fantastic thing to find when you're in that head space. I'm happy for you that you have found at least one.

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Never would have thought to search for this thread. I think about it all the time. Just kast night even. No reason to though. Good life, recently married, great lifelong friends and family in the area, healthy, athletic, everyone tells me how nice I am/good guy, etc.

Most of it comes down to this feeling of being overwhelmed with life. Makes me feel like a b!+# but its always been about stress, anxiety, depression since middle school. Meditation, nutrition, weight training has helped but I find less time for those being a new teacher. As a result I'm regressing. Every time I get over burdened this is my thought. Not to work harder or find some way to deal with it. It doesn't make sense. I'm back on an anti depressant for the stress/anxiety and other herbals(adaptagenics). But still every time my wife gets on me for not doing things around the house or taking care of things that I feel are too much I just clam up, say nothing and think about that bottle of Xanax upstairs. So far I always wake up thankful I haven't done it. Love my wife tol much and my 9 month old puppy. Sounds asinine but to pull a FF theme in here I've found dynasty leagues help because its just a tiny thing to look forward to as I want to see how all these guys develop.

Have a sister with bi-ploar that's tried a few times and it creates so much stress on the family. Lots of chemical imbalance or orherwise unhealthy stress responses in my family.

There is nothing asinine about anything that helps you remember that things develop and change and gives you a bit of hope for the future. I don't care if it's brewing beer, fantasy football, watching your kids or puppy grow up, or growing tomatoes. Anything that you find that helps you remember that the future will be different from now is a fantastic thing to find when you're in that head space. I'm happy for you that you have found at least one.

Very true

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Never would have thought to search for this thread. I think about it all the time. Just kast night even. No reason to though. Good life, recently married, great lifelong friends and family in the area, healthy, athletic, everyone tells me how nice I am/good guy, etc.

Most of it comes down to this feeling of being overwhelmed with life. Makes me feel like a b!+# but its always been about stress, anxiety, depression since middle school. Meditation, nutrition, weight training has helped but I find less time for those being a new teacher. As a result I'm regressing. Every time I get over burdened this is my thought. Not to work harder or find some way to deal with it. It doesn't make sense. I'm back on an anti depressant for the stress/anxiety and other herbals(adaptagenics). But still every time my wife gets on me for not doing things around the house or taking care of things that I feel are too much I just clam up, say nothing and think about that bottle of Xanax upstairs. So far I always wake up thankful I haven't done it. Love my wife tol much and my 9 month old puppy. Sounds asinine but to pull a FF theme in here I've found dynasty leagues help because its just a tiny thing to look forward to as I want to see how all these guys develop.

Have a sister with bi-ploar that's tried a few times and it creates so much stress on the family. Lots of chemical imbalance or orherwise unhealthy stress responses in my family.

There is nothing asinine about anything that helps you remember that things develop and change and gives you a bit of hope for the future. I don't care if it's brewing beer, fantasy football, watching your kids or puppy grow up, or growing tomatoes. Anything that you find that helps you remember that the future will be different from now is a fantastic thing to find when you're in that head space. I'm happy for you that you have found at least one.

Very true

+1

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Mine is actually growing tomatoes. Other stuff, too, but the tomatoes are the big one. They take an excruciatingly long time to develop - months from flowering to having an actual tomato sometimes. I start the vines from heirloom seeds I had shipped from overseas. It's amazing to remember that you can't really tell the difference from day to day, but then one day you actually have a big ol' tomato you can eat, or several.

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Mine is actually growing tomatoes. Other stuff, too, but the tomatoes are the big one. They take an excruciatingly long time to develop - months from flowering to having an actual tomato sometimes. I start the vines from heirloom seeds I had shipped from overseas. It's amazing to remember that you can't really tell the difference from day to day, but then one day you actually have a big ol' tomato you can eat, or several.

I started collecting baseball cards. Made me look forward to the release dates of new sets. And the time I spent organizing them and collecting them seemed to relieve a lot of stress.

I know they aren't really going to be worth anything and I'm not doing it to become rich. But figuring out a hobby for myself was a big positive for me.

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Mine is actually growing tomatoes. Other stuff, too, but the tomatoes are the big one. They take an excruciatingly long time to develop - months from flowering to having an actual tomato sometimes. I start the vines from heirloom seeds I had shipped from overseas. It's amazing to remember that you can't really tell the difference from day to day, but then one day you actually have a big ol' tomato you can eat, or several.

Do you grow anything else?

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Mine is actually growing tomatoes. Other stuff, too, but the tomatoes are the big one. They take an excruciatingly long time to develop - months from flowering to having an actual tomato sometimes. I start the vines from heirloom seeds I had shipped from overseas. It's amazing to remember that you can't really tell the difference from day to day, but then one day you actually have a big ol' tomato you can eat, or several.

Do you grow anything else?

Not sure why that question made me laugh, but it did.

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