What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Marvel Cinematic Universe - Can Deadpool Save the MCU? You betcha, friendo! (14 Viewers)

Lots of people thinking now Nightmare or Mephesto was on the wallpaper on the latest poster for Wandavision.

It just seems like a modified House of M type storyline. 

In other words, I have no idea wth is going to happen and I am loving it!

 
CentralPA said:
Lots of people thinking now Nightmare or Mephesto was on the wallpaper on the latest poster for Wandavision.

It just seems like a modified House of M type storyline. 

In other words, I have no idea wth is going to happen and I am loving it!
Click to expand...
Mephisto makes the most sense, as he's tied to the twins from the West Coast Avengers storyline, which also is tied to when Vision lost his "personality" and returned as a white android.  Nightmare is another dimensional character that would have more ties to Dr Strange, but I have heard rumors of Nightmare getting a hold on Wanda for Mephisto, which leads to a big confrontation in Dr Strange 2.  That feels like a stretch to me.  I do think Mephisto is involved, and Agnes/Harkness is there trying to help as a guide for Wanda and others to keep them safe.  I'm assuming we'll find out she's been following Wanda since Sokovia days and wants to mentor her on her powers.

 
Peak said:
Mephisto makes the most sense, as he's tied to the twins from the West Coast Avengers storyline, which also is tied to when Vision lost his "personality" and returned as a white android.  Nightmare is another dimensional character that would have more ties to Dr Strange, but I have heard rumors of Nightmare getting a hold on Wanda for Mephisto, which leads to a big confrontation in Dr Strange 2.  That feels like a stretch to me.  I do think Mephisto is involved, and Agnes/Harkness is there trying to help as a guide for Wanda and others to keep them safe.  I'm assuming we'll find out she's been following Wanda since Sokovia days and wants to mentor her on her powers.
Click to expand...
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.

 
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
When the Scarlet Witch was first created by Lee and Kirby, her powers were not well defined. She had "hex powers", that could cause random and unlikely events to take place. This gave creative freedom to the writers, as it actually meant that her powers could be used for any purpose required by the plot.[8] Despite the character's name, she had those powers as a mutant, and not because of actual witchcraft. Later writers gave her an increased control over her power, so that she could cause specific events and not just random ones. Englehart also made the character explore witchcraft under the tutelage of Agatha Harkness, a trait that was kept by later writers. The effects of her powers are varied but almost always detrimental to opponents, such as causing the artifact the Evil Eye to work against the inter-dimensional warlord Dormammu,[124] forcing the robot Ultron to short circuit,[125] or a gas main underneath the Brotherhood of Mutants to explode.[126] Scarlet Witch also has the potential to wield magic and later learned that she was destined to serve the role of Nexus Being, a living focal point for the Earth dimension's mystical energy.[127]

Writer Kurt Busiek redefined Scarlet Witch's powers and maintained that it was, in fact, an ability to manipulate chaos magic, activated due to the demon Chthon changing her mutation at birth into an ability to wield and control magical energy. This was offered as an explanation for her various feats that seemed to go beyond probability alteration, as well as why her hexes almost always have an effect that is favorable to her goals.[70] During Busiek's run as well as the subsequent run by Geoff Johns, she was shown to be capable of large-scale spells given enough concentration and time to shape the chaos magic to a specific goal, including the resurrection of Wonder Man.[70]

Her powers were retconned in Avengers Disassembled, removing chaos magic and turning them into reality warping. In House of M, this new power was enough to change the whole universe.[128] Her powers were retconned back to their previous ones in The Children's Crusade, and the previous events attributed to an outside force that had temporarily increased them.[88]

This was again seemingly changed during AvX when she is shown powerful enough to exhibit a degree of resistance to the Phoenix Force and can cause pain to its hosts, such as Cyclops when he tried to stop Hope from going with her.[129] This becomes less effective as the Phoenix Force portions are divided among those who have not yet been defeated.[volume & issue needed] Scarlet Witch is so powerful, in fact, that she is the described as the only thing the Phoenix Five are still afraid of. A vs X #12 confirmed that her powers involve chaos magic, and stated that she has "Mutant Magic", and the "primal source of her chaos" magic is cosmic.[volume & issue needed]

In the 2016 Scarlet Witch comic series, it is confirmed that Wanda was born with the ability to utilize witchcraft and that this has been seen in other women within her family; Wanda also believes that The High Evolutionary genetically altered her, making her more receptive to magical energy.[1]

 
need2know said:
When the Scarlet Witch was first created by Lee and Kirby, her powers were not well defined. She had "hex powers", that could cause random and unlikely events to take place. This gave creative freedom to the writers, as it actually meant that her powers could be used for any purpose required by the plot.[8] Despite the character's name, she had those powers as a mutant, and not because of actual witchcraft. Later writers gave her an increased control over her power, so that she could cause specific events and not just random ones. Englehart also made the character explore witchcraft under the tutelage of Agatha Harkness, a trait that was kept by later writers. The effects of her powers are varied but almost always detrimental to opponents, such as causing the artifact the Evil Eye to work against the inter-dimensional warlord Dormammu,[124] forcing the robot Ultron to short circuit,[125] or a gas main underneath the Brotherhood of Mutants to explode.[126] Scarlet Witch also has the potential to wield magic and later learned that she was destined to serve the role of Nexus Being, a living focal point for the Earth dimension's mystical energy.[127]

Writer Kurt Busiek redefined Scarlet Witch's powers and maintained that it was, in fact, an ability to manipulate chaos magic, activated due to the demon Chthon changing her mutation at birth into an ability to wield and control magical energy. This was offered as an explanation for her various feats that seemed to go beyond probability alteration, as well as why her hexes almost always have an effect that is favorable to her goals.[70] During Busiek's run as well as the subsequent run by Geoff Johns, she was shown to be capable of large-scale spells given enough concentration and time to shape the chaos magic to a specific goal, including the resurrection of Wonder Man.[70]

Her powers were retconned in Avengers Disassembled, removing chaos magic and turning them into reality warping. In House of M, this new power was enough to change the whole universe.[128] Her powers were retconned back to their previous ones in The Children's Crusade, and the previous events attributed to an outside force that had temporarily increased them.[88]

This was again seemingly changed during AvX when she is shown powerful enough to exhibit a degree of resistance to the Phoenix Force and can cause pain to its hosts, such as Cyclops when he tried to stop Hope from going with her.[129] This becomes less effective as the Phoenix Force portions are divided among those who have not yet been defeated.[volume & issue needed] Scarlet Witch is so powerful, in fact, that she is the described as the only thing the Phoenix Five are still afraid of. A vs X #12 confirmed that her powers involve chaos magic, and stated that she has "Mutant Magic", and the "primal source of her chaos" magic is cosmic.[volume & issue needed]

In the 2016 Scarlet Witch comic series, it is confirmed that Wanda was born with the ability to utilize witchcraft and that this has been seen in other women within her family; Wanda also believes that The High Evolutionary genetically altered her, making her more receptive to magical energy.[1]
Click to expand...
huh

 
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
Welp :shrug:

 
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
Then you picked the wrong genre to watch IMO. Nothing in the DC or MCU adhere to the laws of physics.

 
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
Then you are probably not reading/watching too many Super hero stories.

 
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
I think I understand what you meant, you want internal logical consistency within the story/narrative. Marvel has been really good about that so far with only the occasional cheats.

Scarlet Witch is supposed to be orders of magnitude one of the most powerful characters in the MCU but so far we haven’t really seen that on film unlike say the Deus Ex Machina/cheat code they turned Captain Marvel into. But she should be just as powerful as CM but in an alter reality sort of fashion as opposed to raw physical power/energy. I am guessing they are building towards that for Scarlet Witch in WandaVision.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
CentralPA said:
Then you are probably not reading/watching too many Super hero stories.
Click to expand...
Not true.  See Buckna's post above.

Plus, I have an excellent capacity for suspension of disbelief, but only in context of a consistent framework.  Otherwise, I become distracted.  I'm perfectly comfortable with unrevealed information, also, and giving the writers the benefit of the doubt until the information is divulged and we are in a position to judge it's consistency (or lack thereof) with the established rules of the construct.

I just have a hard time with Scarlet Witch's seemingly "as needed" unknown powers.  Need someone to control minds?  Scarlet Witch!  Need someone to blow something up?  Warp reality?  Set a table?...

 
Buckna said:
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
I think I understand what you meant, you want internal logical consistency within the story/narrative. Marvel has been really good about that so far with only the occasional cheats.

Scarlet Witch is supposed to be orders of magnitude one of the most powerful characters in the MCU but so far we haven’t really seen that on film unlike say the Deus Ex Machina/cheat code they turned Captain Marvel into. But she should be just as powerful as CM but in an alter reality sort of fashion as opposed to raw physical power/energy. I am guessing they are building towards that for Scarlet Witch in WandaVision.
Click to expand...
Yes, she is a cosmic level force and one of the most powerful people in the MCU.  She's been hamstrung by the "no mutants" to this point, but that is clearly about to open up. Things in the future of the MCU are going to look more like Dr. Strange (magic and cosmic) than Iron Man (technology driven).

 
Psychopav said:
CentralPA said:
Then you are probably not reading/watching too many Super hero stories.
Click to expand...
Not true.  See Buckna's post above.

Plus, I have an excellent capacity for suspension of disbelief, but only in context of a consistent framework.  Otherwise, I become distracted.  I'm perfectly comfortable with unrevealed information, also, and giving the writers the benefit of the doubt until the information is divulged and we are in a position to judge it's consistency (or lack thereof) with the established rules of the construct.

I just have a hard time with Scarlet Witch's seemingly "as needed" unknown powers.  Need someone to control minds?  Scarlet Witch!  Need someone to blow something up?  Warp reality?  Set a table?...
Click to expand...
I think how they are going about it is that the experiments on her as a child in Sokovia (which they noted it was taking place there because the genes of the locals weathered the experiments better - i.e. mutants) unlocked her mutant genes.  Strucker had no idea how to train her, because mutant genes are different (Quiksilver was fast, she can control reality).  So she seems like a weak character at first because she hasn't begun to tap into what she can do.  I think Agnes will help her find out what she can really do.  I think her recent traumas with Ultron and Thanos also let her know she has more strength when she ripped out Ultron's heart and was kicking Thanos' butt. 

People get disinterested when a character is too powerful though, so her governor will be her fragile mental state, which I think WandaVision is doing an excellent job at displaying.

 
Psychopav said:
Not true.  See Buckna's post above.

Plus, I have an excellent capacity for suspension of disbelief, but only in context of a consistent framework.  Otherwise, I become distracted.  I'm perfectly comfortable with unrevealed information, also, and giving the writers the benefit of the doubt until the information is divulged and we are in a position to judge it's consistency (or lack thereof) with the established rules of the construct.

I just have a hard time with Scarlet Witch's seemingly "as needed" unknown powers.  Need someone to control minds?  Scarlet Witch!  Need someone to blow something up?  Warp reality?  Set a table?...
Click to expand...
OK, I think I understand now.

So basically to summarize, it can be some what a far fetched fictional story narrative as long as the elements use in the storyline remain consistent?

I can see the inconsistency with Wanda.  We kind of thought we had established what her powers are but now I guess there is much more to it now and may be no limit?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I understand what @Psychopavis saying. I think I've viewed every Marvel movie but I'm still confused at times.  It's almost like you need a masters degree in this stuff. Still, throughly enjoying the ride. Unlike years ago when I blew off a few calc classes and was lost in a bad way. Figure I can always fall back on Biclops if it gets too much. 

 
Psychopav said:
What are her powers, exactly?  I am confused because I understand telekinesis and the ability to make someone see something that isn't there.  I get mind control.  But how do those things translate to being able to warp reality?  That doesn't track for me without some explanation.  I like my super hero stories to make sense and follow the laws of physics.
Click to expand...
I assumed she was basically a living reality stone. But that seems not quite correct. 

Thunderlips said:
Pretty much.

I do remember her having the potential to be one of the most powerful beings in the Marvel Universe.  
Click to expand...
I think, other than god types like Galactus, living tribunal, etc. Wanda is only rivaled by Phoenix, maybe Xavier, franklin richards and few others. 

From those currently in the MCU, Dr strange is probably the only one who could reign her in.

Which means they're either bringing in new characters, doc makes an appearance soon, or both. And of course she's in DS2

 
Last edited by a moderator:
-OZ- said:
I think, other than god types like Galactus, living tribunal, etc. Wanda is only rivaled by Phoenix, maybe Xavier, franklin richards and few others. 

From those currently in the MCU, Dr strange is probably the only one who could reign her in.

Which means they're either bringing in new characters, doc makes an appearance soon, or both. And of course she's in DS2
Click to expand...
These two articles should help folks like @Psychopav fit the puzzle pieces together. The first is about the powers of the MCU characters strictly as revealed within the MCU films. The second is about all-time most powerful Marvel entities in all media, only two of which have yet made it into the MCU (Odin and The Grandmaster, in greatly nerfed forms). Of course, they're both opinion pieces, not role-playing-game guidebooks ... but they're decent starting points for wrapping one's head around these kinds of questions.

The MCU-only article (dated May 2019) does a good job of laying out Wanda's powers through Endgame:

Abilities: Wanda Maximoff and her brother were the voluntary subjects of Hydra experiments. Scientists used the Scepter, which housed the Mind Stone, to give them otherworldly powers. The scientists didn't actually know about the Mind Stone or understand its uses, so the Maximoffs were not directly subjected to its power. But the Scepter did grant Wanda powerful abilities like telekinesis, telepathy, and energy manipulation.

Her psionics allow her to fly, generate force fields, move large objects, and project dangerous blasts of energy. She can also invade the minds of her enemies and plant realistic, disturbing visions that can incapacitate them out of fear.
Click to expand...
What's going on in WandaVision seems to be an enhancement of her "generate force fields" and "plant realistic, disturbing visions" powers. Note that people on whom Wanda is not applying powers (i.e. Darcy, Woo, and others outside of Westview) can still see the town's house and buildings from afar and can even interact with and through the force field around the town. So it doesn't seem like in WandaVision itself that Wanda is actually changing baseline reality (yet?) -- a few of the all-time powerful entities in the second article can actually affect and create reality.

Now, getting out of the MCU and into the wider realm of Marvel comics/media, here's an interesting snippet from the Scarlet Witch's (Wanda's) Wikipedia article:

Her powers were retconned in Avengers Disassembled (2004-05 comics), removing chaos magic and turning them into reality warping. In House of M, this new power was enough to change the whole universe. Her powers were retconned back to their previous ones in The Children's Crusade, and the previous events attributed to an outside force that had temporarily increased them.

This was again seemingly changed during AvX when she is shown powerful enough to exhibit a degree of resistance to the Phoenix Force and can cause pain to its hosts ...
Click to expand...

 
I want to re-watch and was going to go in chronological order from Captain America through End Game -- but I don't know that I really want to watch every single movie due to time (maybe I still will though).

If you just wanted to do a partial re-watch to fully understand what is happening regarding Infinity Stones and the next Phase, which would you watch or skip? 

I am thinking the watchlist should include:

Captain Marvel

Iron Man;

Avengers;

Winter Soldier;

GAG; 

Ultron;

Civil War;

Dr. Strange;

Ragnarok;

Infinity War;

End Game

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I want to re-watch and was going to go in chronological order from Captain America through End Game -- but I don't know that I really want to watch every single movie due to time (maybe I still will though).

If you just wanted to do a partial re-watch to fully understand what is happening regarding Infinity Stones and the next Phase, which would you watch or skip? 

I am thinking the watchlist should include:

Captain Marvel- skip

Iron Man;- watch

Avengers;- watch

Winter Soldier;- watch

GAG; -watch

Ultron;- watch

Civil War;- watch

Dr. Strange;-skip

Ragnarok;- watch

Infinity War;- watch

End Game- watch
Click to expand...

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I was thinking Marvel and Strange were important for what is to come.
Click to expand...
Not really IMO. They are both kind of standalone stories. The characters themselves may be important but you get enough of their background in the Avengers movies. Its like saying you can skip Thor or the first Captain America and still not miss anything. Heck you can probably even skip Iron Man.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
jobarules said:
Not really IMO. They are both kind of standalone stories. The characters themselves may be important but you get enough of their background in the Avengers movies. Its like saying you can skip Thor or the first Captain America and still not miss anything. Heck you can probably even skip Iron Man.
Click to expand...
Yea, that is why I don't have those origin ones on the list.  I just like Iron Man -- only saw 2 and 3 once but not sure they are worth it.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I want to re-watch and was going to go in chronological order from Captain America through End Game -- but I don't know that I really want to watch every single movie due to time (maybe I still will though).

If you just wanted to do a partial re-watch to fully understand what is happening regarding Infinity Stones and the next Phase, which would you watch or skip? 

I am thinking the watchlist should include:

Captain Marvel

Iron Man;

Avengers;

Winter Soldier;

GAG; 

Ultron;

Civil War;

Dr. Strange;

Ragnarok;

Infinity War;

End Game
Click to expand...
Just Infinity Stones...you don't need Iron Man or Winter Soldier.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I want to re-watch and was going to go in chronological order from Captain America through End Game -- but I don't know that I really want to watch every single movie due to time (maybe I still will though).

If you just wanted to do a partial re-watch to fully understand what is happening regarding Infinity Stones and the next Phase, which would you watch or skip? 

I am thinking the watchlist should include:

Captain America 1

Captain Marvel (not needed for Infinity Stores)

Iron Man (not needed for Infinity Stones, but a fun ride)

Thor 2 

Avengers;

Winter Soldier; (not needed for Infinity Stones)

GAG; 

Age of Ultron;

Civil War; (Not needed for Infinity Stores)

Dr. Strange;

Ragnarok; 

Infinity War;

End Game
Click to expand...
bolded for Infinity Stone/Thanos

 
Doug B said:
These two articles should help folks like @Psychopav fit the puzzle pieces together. The first is about the powers of the MCU characters strictly as revealed within the MCU films. The second is about all-time most powerful Marvel entities in all media, only two of which have yet made it into the MCU (Odin and The Grandmaster, in greatly nerfed forms). Of course, they're both opinion pieces, not role-playing-game guidebooks ... but they're decent starting points for wrapping one's head around these kinds of questions.

The MCU-only article (dated May 2019) does a good job of laying out Wanda's powers through Endgame:

What's going on in WandaVision seems to be an enhancement of her "generate force fields" and "plant realistic, disturbing visions" powers. Note that people on whom Wanda is not applying powers (i.e. Darcy, Woo, and others outside of Westview) can still see the town's house and buildings from afar and can even interact with and through the force field around the town. So it doesn't seem like in WandaVision itself that Wanda is actually changing baseline reality (yet?) -- a few of the all-time powerful entities in the second article can actually affect and create reality.

Now, getting out of the MCU and into the wider realm of Marvel comics/media, here's an interesting snippet from the Scarlet Witch's (Wanda's) Wikipedia article:
Click to expand...
This wiki on fandom does a really nice job of describing, in detail, all of the powers she has had over time. She really is capable of doing most anything.

 
Has the spoiler tag issue been resolved.....because MAN we really need that thing if we are going to discuss episode 5.

 
Gonna need to watch it again. 

 the bit about not bringing the dog back, means vision is still dead, corr3ct?  And then the ending, clouds that as well.  

 
the series started slow , which i didnt mind , but damn its really picked up now
cant wait to see where they take this as there is so many options
watching the emergency awesome on youtube after the episodes helps tremendously  
 

 
DA RAIDERS said:
Gonna need to watch it again. 

 the bit about not bringing the dog back, means vision is still dead, corr3ct?  And then the ending, clouds that as well.  
Click to expand...
I can see her not being able to bring back a living being, like her real brother, or the dog, but maybe she is not restricted to those rules for a robot like Vision?

 
I can't get the spoiler tags to work, but I so want to talk about the ending....

It has so many layers to it, for the show itself but maybe more importantly what does it mean from a business point of view above and beyond this one tv show....

Damn, DOFP is one of my favorite movies, I almost fell out of my chair...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I am unsure if it was some how related to the ending but can any one explain the significance of the scene where Woo is questioned about Wanda's nickname?

I always assumed it was never used due to various rights but all those seem to be muddled now with the ending....

 
Never seen the X-men movies so I missed the twist but this show is absolutely fabulous. 
 

Was there a version of scarlet witch in the fox x-men movies?

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 15 (members: 0, guests: 15)
Top