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Marvel Cinematic Universe - Can Deadpool Save the MCU? You betcha, friendo! (11 Viewers)

Leeroy Jenkins said:
Ms. Marvel is getting good reviews. Anyone else watch it?
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I watched the first two episodes and actually enjoyed it.  It's probably got a younger and more feminine target audience that the majority of us here, but it isn't terrible.  I struggled to get through "Moon Knight" and I was looking forward to that one.  I find myself looking forward to how the story progresses with "Ms. Marvel" more though.

 
The Dude said:
You fans over sold Strange 2

Bad acting

bad dialogue

could have replaced America with an amulet with the same powers and maybe been a better movie

illuminati kinda stunk - if you are going to go there, go big
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I agree with my brother the dude

This was pretty weak.  I did enjoy watching that crap team of heros getting shredded but not much to like beyond that.   

B minus and don't want to watch it again

Dr strange one was a far better flick

 
The Dude said:
illuminati kinda stunk - if you are going to go there, go big
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I kinda enjoyed it but probably won't watch again, which means it's one of the weaker ones (1st much much better IMO), but totally agree with the illuminati sequence. Was all psyched when they started showing up but the fight was a real letdown. Very little imagination to it. 

 
The problem with the multiverse theme is nothing really matters.

[spoilers]

If one doctor strange from one universe dies then who cares.  There's another one somewhere, isn't there? 

They've handled this a bunch of different ways.

In Loki and Spiderman they had different lokis and spidermen. If alligator loki or spider pig dies then there's not another alligator Loki or spider pig just like them. Ok that's sort of like having stakes.

In What If,  they had uncool Dr Strange and Super Ultron. That's what Super Wanda was.  Lots of realities but only one big bad villain to deal with. Makes it easier to know when the movie's over i guess. 

Loki and What If both had big consequences - if the bad guy wins then ALL of the universes in the multiverse are in danger.  That's the absolute maximum consequence, if you think about it.   

In MoM, the stakes were that there's only one America*.

I guess that's important.  

I mean, it would suck to have Wanda suck her powers out. I don't really get how that became a thing but i can see that it's not a nice thing to do. 

It would also suck because bad Wanda could be bad in lots of multiverses.  But her entire motivation was to go find her fake kids and keep them safe and happy forever. I guess when they grow up and turn into teenagers that hate her she'd just #### off to the next universe where they were ten again and hang out with them there for a while. That part of the plan seemed a bit rushed.  Anyways the point is that I don't know if that's quite "Ultron killing everyone everywhere and everywhen" level stakes but angry moms taking over is definitely annoying.  

Then there's the fact that there's only one America and if she dies then there's no other way that we know of to go to other universes. But actually we do know of other ways.  And pretty much any time anyone goes to other universes it ends up being bad. And honestly i didn't even know she existed until this movie so losing her didn't seem like a huge deal.  

I guess what I'm saying is that, while they did a pretty good job trying to make me care about the stakes with the "there's only one of her" motif, they've raised the stakes in previous movies so high that iron man fighting to stop his coworker from killing him seems trivial compared to red skull threatening to take over earth or Loki threatening to take over earth or Loki threatening to bring aliens to take over earth or dark elves threatening to destroy the Thor movie franchise because it sucked or Thanos threatening to kill everyone.  

And now the stakes are back to Wanda threatening to take over one person's powers and spend time with kids.  It's a little bit of a backslide. 

Because in the next movie, it's not like the world is down half its population, or New York is rebuilding after Chitari warriors crashed into skyscrapers and shot laser holes in everything.  The main universe is pretty much back to ok except one tower at the University of Wong. It wouldn't even surprise me to see Wanda be a good guy again like oh yeah i get it now that was wrong. 

It was an ok movie, i guess, but it's s bummer that every new marvel movie is about the multiverse now. 

The one plot point that progressed was that we saw Jim as Reed Richards and that means he probably has a three movie deal lined up for the next storyline.  And I'm cautiously optimistic that they can make the stakes real so we care about that. But then...  once they save the multiverse can they ever go back to just saving the world? 

* Bonus points if you noticed their subtle message that if you let the selfish person with the TV show control Americs then the morals of the universe will explode and everyone everywhere will suffer for all of eternity. 

 [/spoilers]

 
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Agree with the current sentiment, Strange 2 was just OK. I don’t think I’ll rewatch it, definitely bottom tier of MCU movies.

I don’t get why they do a multiverse where they are animated and paint. I get the Nazis winning WWII type multiverse but other than the wow it looks cool, paint people isn’t a different branch.

Also, the girl who played America was just meh to me, except for having two moms. Honestly, I was shocked that they didn’t make a point of one of the moms being trans. I feel bad for gay actors, they are so passé. Used to be that you’d have to have a token gay guy in a show to show diversity and now if you are just gay, you’re not interesting anymore.

 
With the introduction of the multiverse they should just reboot the main characters in those universes. Does it really matter if we are watching a movie in the MCU (whatever number they assigned that universe) versus a different one. 
 

There are so many good stories still to tell with characters they need to move on from. I would love to see stories in those universes with the main characters recast if needed. And for characters like Strange, go ahead and use Cumberbatch since we have seen examples of multiverse where the actor is the same. 
 

 
stbugs said:
Agree with the current sentiment, Strange 2 was just OK. I don’t think I’ll rewatch it, definitely bottom tier of MCU movies.

I don’t get why they do a multiverse where they are animated and paint. I get the Nazis winning WWII type multiverse but other than the wow it looks cool, paint people isn’t a different branch.

Also, the girl who played America was just meh to me, except for having two moms. Honestly, I was shocked that they didn’t make a point of one of the moms being trans. I feel bad for gay actors, they are so passé. Used to be that you’d have to have a token gay guy in a show to show diversity and now if you are just gay, you’re not interesting anymore.
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Disney is more concerned about showing diversity than creating good content.  It's sad.

 
need2know said:
Disney is more concerned about showing diversity than creating good content.  It's sad.
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I wouldn’t call it sad, more disappointing because it seems to take away from making a better show/movie. I mean we literally got No backstory on America in MoM but we made to find out she was Latino and had two moms. 2 hour movie and you just don’t care about the only new character that’s the key to the whole movie. I’ve watched one episode of Ms. Marvel and like her 1000% more even if it’s not geared for me.

 
Capella said:
Lmfao oh no the poor white man never gets any screen time how terrible you must be kidding. 
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That’s not my point which he quoted. A huge drawback to MoM was that I could have cared less about America. There was no reason to care. It seemed like they felt it was more important to show us she was Latino and had two moms that giving us anything else.

 
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stbugs said:
That’s not my point which he quoted. A huge drawback to MoM was that I could have cared less about America. There was no reason to care. It seemed like they felt it was more important to show us she was Latino and had two moms that giving us anything else.
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I don’t even remember the character that’s how bad that movie was. Has nothing to do with diversity it was just very poorly written. 
 

The first avengers movies were 5 white guys and a white woman fighting a white man. Anybody crying about too much diversity is insane. 

 
Capella said:
I don’t even remember the character that’s how bad that movie was. Has nothing to do with diversity it was just very poorly written. 
 

The first avengers movies were 5 white guys and a white woman fighting a white man. Anybody crying about too much diversity is insane. 
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You might not have noticed it but tony stark, child of hetero parents, had a number of hetero relationships before settling down with a hetero woman and dreaming of having his own child who loved him three thousand. In fact all of the original avengers have hetero relationships, some with each other.  

In iron man 3, Tony walked in on the mandarin who had two women in his bed.  Nobody blinked because that was just the mandarin being supercharged extra hetero. 

Dr Strange has a hetero relationship with Christine. Wanda had a hetero  relationship with a sentient robot that was 3d printed out of meat and had 4 different computer brains.  

Loki hooked up with himself in another dimension... but it had to be with girl Loki because apparently hooking up with himself was totally normal but only if it's a girl. 

There's been 20 something movies in the MCU and all of them have been loaded with hetero relationships and romantic scenes but this one featured a brief scene with a minor character who had two moms who don't actually show on screen romance and people are complaining.  

 
Capella said:
I don’t even remember the character that’s how bad that movie was. Has nothing to do with diversity it was just very poorly written. 
 

The first avengers movies were 5 white guys and a white woman fighting a white man. Anybody crying about too much diversity is insane. 
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Not crying about it but it wasn’t just poorly written. What I didn’t like was the fact that they absolutely spent time thinking about showing what they did instead of really developing a character. I don’t know why there’s no more gray. Complaining that they are trying to teach a lesson doesn’t mean we are complaining that America really should have been a 50 year old white dude with 80 year old white parents taking him to a Red Sox game where he learned about his power because he spilled a beer.

It’s more noticeable because the movie wasn’t very good, so that’s true.

 
bostonfred said:
You might not have noticed it but tony stark, child of hetero parents, had a number of hetero relationships before settling down with a hetero woman and dreaming of having his own child who loved him three thousand. In fact all of the original avengers have hetero relationships, some with each other.  

In iron man 3, Tony walked in on the mandarin who had two women in his bed.  Nobody blinked because that was just the mandarin being supercharged extra hetero. 

Dr Strange has a hetero relationship with Christine. Wanda had a hetero  relationship with a sentient robot that was 3d printed out of meat and had 4 different computer brains.  

Loki hooked up with himself in another dimension... but it had to be with girl Loki because apparently hooking up with himself was totally normal but only if it's a girl. 

There's been 20 something movies in the MCU and all of them have been loaded with hetero relationships and romantic scenes but this one featured a brief scene with a minor character who had two moms who don't actually show on screen romance and people are complaining.  
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Nothing is ever good enough when people want to feel aggrieved. 
 

(Not talking about you stbugs)

 
stbugs said:
Not crying about it but it wasn’t just poorly written. What I didn’t like was the fact that they absolutely spent time thinking about showing what they did instead of really developing a character. I don’t know why there’s no more gray. Complaining that they are trying to teach a lesson doesn’t mean we are complaining that America really should have been a 50 year old white dude with 80 year old white parents taking him to a Red Sox game where he learned about his power because he spilled a beer.

It’s more noticeable because the movie wasn’t very good, so that’s true.
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I don’t know, I don’t even remember the scene. My point is that representation matters, the world is not just a bunch of white men running around so why should the movies be? I was more responding to the guy who quoted you, not you yourself. 

 
Capella said:
I don’t know, I don’t even remember the scene. My point is that representation matters, the world is not just a bunch of white men running around so why should the movies be? I was more responding to the guy who quoted you, not you yourself. 
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Yep.  Diversity is all well and good, but the character should be well-written first and foremost.

 
The first episode or two of MS Marvel came off as a teen girl coming of age story more than anything. I almost stopped watching because it just seemed like it wasn't for me, but it got better as it went along.  The girl who played Kamala did a great job.  I think her story is going to be very relevant going forward in phase whatever we're in.

 
need2know said:
Disney is more concerned about showing diversity than creating good content.  It's sad.
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Yeah they must have spent their entire budget and all of the script writing time developing that 5 second lesbian kiss scene.  That's why the rest of the movie was mediocre.  :rolleyes:

 
Capella said:
Multiverse means there are no stakes. :shrug:  Makes it boring to me. I don’t care at all about this phase and I’ve been a huge fan of it all. 
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Agreed.

One other thing I don't understand is why they didn't just run with the multiverse story they developed in Loki?  Like they introduced a multiverse storyline there, but then totally re-did the reason for the multiverse and the state it's in with Spiderman, and then again with MoM.  They're not really congruent with each other.

MoM was pretty 'meh' for me.  Marvel movies have always been over the top but this was just to another level.  I also liked it better with the original way they did it where individual hero movies generally had high stakes for the individual hero, but not for the entire world/universe, and then the really large stakes events that affect the entire world were in the Avengers movies.  Now literally every movie the stakes are the entire world/universe ending and it's old.  Eternals, Shang-chi, MoM.  Every movie it's "the whole world is going to end if the hero doesn't prevail".  They need to spread that out a bit.

Though if nothing else, I guess the multiverse gives them an excuse to bring back some of the popular dead characters, whether for cameos or full-on returns, as the popularity of Marvel seems to be waning without them.  Dr Strange and Wanda and Shang-Chi and whatnot are all fine characters, but they don't have anywhere near the charisma of Tony Stark/Steve Rogers.

 
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I'm super easy. I love just about every Marvel movie made. Most are great, the rest are better than great. But MoM was disappointing for many of the reasons mentioned. I forgot about America halfway through the movie, then she showed up again. 

Dr. Strange is such a great character. They cheapened him. I still like how Wanda came off.

What's with these books that seem to come out of nowhere.  

And gotta be careful with the Multiverse storyline. I care less about the Marvel franchise now knowing that Tony/Iron Man isn't gone, there are several elsewhere.

 
⚡DEADHEAD⚡ said:
And gotta be careful with the Multiverse storyline. I care less about the Marvel franchise now knowing that Tony/Iron Man isn't gone, there are several elsewhere.
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Between time travel, variants (Gamora/Loki), and multi-verse there are like 10 different ways they can bring people back to life now.  It really cheapens the stakes.

The only way a character can truly die is by suing Disney for $50 million.

 
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Deranged Hermit said:
Saw Thor tonight with my daughter. Absolutely fantastic,  everything I'd hoped it would be.  Highest recommendation. 
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Totally agreed. Loved it. 

i accidentally ordered two tickets to the 21 and up section. My son is 19. We went to exchange, they didn’t have any seats together so he exchanged his and I went to the 21+ section. I had never been up there before as I’ve only seen movies in the theater with him in the past few years. Those seats are the way to go. The area was half empty and seats are huge. Beer was expensive but worth it. Good friends of Ours see movies there often, I might have to start joining them. The wife doesn’t like watching movies B so I usually don’t bother except for the Marvel movies, but I could dig a guys afternoon once in a while. Or even on my own on a day off. 

 
Thor:  Love & Thunder

It's a silly film. Almost as tongue in cheek as the "Deadpool" films, stopping just short of having the characters break the 4th wall, but winkingly aware of just how ridiculous and outlandish it is.

I really get the feeling that this script was written backwards from a desired ending. Taika knew where he wanted Thor and Jane and Sif and Valkyrie to be when the story ended, then worked his way back from the end to create the story necessary to get them there. In doing so they recognized there were a number of silly contrivances and assumptions that the audience was going to have to accept so they just leaned into the goofiness in order to make these preposterous plot points more digestible. I chuckled a few times, but most of the gags/humor I found only mildly amusing.

The film did have some inspired moments and some of them pay off but not all of them do. I felt most of the action scenes were too CGI'd. Lots of light and noise, but nothing spectacular when it comes to choreography or originality. The soundtrack was excellent and did much of the heavy lifting to impart the sense of excitement or drama to some scenes.

Overall it was an entertaining film, but I felt it was step down from "Ragnarock". Still better than the original or "The Dark World" (Thor was boring as hell in those films), but it was the best we were going to get in light of the direction they want to take the character. They clearly have plans to continue making Thor films as the end credits promise "Thor will return". "Love and Thunder" does just enough to make sure I'll be returning for the next film, too.

J

 
Just saw Love and Thunder, I'd give it a definite B maybe a B+. I really like Taika's take on things, very unusual perspective. I thought the movie had a good balance of action and humor.  Without spoiling things, 2 parts felt very shoehorned in.  In the beginning, it was recapping some of Thor's exploits since we last saw him, and didn't in my mind properly utilize those around him.  Midway through the movie, they go to a special place and I thought just about that entire thing was eye rolling.

Overall it was good though.  Some emotional moments, some very cool cinematography when they went to a certain area near the end.  Sets up an interesting new path at the end.  The first after credit scene was very cool, and the second one was a nice little wrap up.  

Sorry for the vagueness, just trying not to spoil anything.  It wasn't as good as Ragnarock or No Way Home (which surprisingly some posters in here didn't like) but miles and miles better than the Eternals (which I've now watched 20 mins of before boredom got me). A very solid entry.

It was clear they forced certain things into the film, and that will likely lead to people having more politically slanted discussions here.  I think by now we know who likes what, and who doesn't like what, so I'd ask that we keep such talk to a minimum.

P.S. Awesome soundtrack by the way!

 
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Also, I have not watched any of Ms. Marvel yet, it is the first of these Marvel series that just hasn't captured my attention.  I will watch it soon, and despite the bad reviews on the CGI of She Hulk, I'm looking forward to that one. Very talented actress in the lead role.

 
steelcitysledgehammers said:
Thor:  Love & Thunder

It's a silly film. Almost as tongue in cheek as the "Deadpool" films, stopping just short of having the characters break the 4th wall, but winkingly aware of just how ridiculous and outlandish it is.

I really get the feeling that this script was written backwards from a desired ending. Taika knew where he wanted Thor and Jane and Sif and Valkyrie to be when the story ended, then worked his way back from the end to create the story necessary to get them there. In doing so they recognized there were a number of silly contrivances and assumptions that the audience was going to have to accept so they just leaned into the goofiness in order to make these preposterous plot points more digestible. I chuckled a few times, but most of the gags/humor I found only mildly amusing.

The film did have some inspired moments and some of them pay off but not all of them do. I felt most of the action scenes were too CGI'd. Lots of light and noise, but nothing spectacular when it comes to choreography or originality. The soundtrack was excellent and did much of the heavy lifting to impart the sense of excitement or drama to some scenes.

Overall it was an entertaining film, but I felt it was step down from "Ragnarock". Still better than the original or "The Dark World" (Thor was boring as hell in those films), but it was the best we were going to get in light of the direction they want to take the character. They clearly have plans to continue making Thor films as the end credits promise "Thor will return". "Love and Thunder" does just enough to make sure I'll be returning for the next film, too.

J
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My understanding is that Jane Foster was not originally in Taika's plans.  

 
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I am one of the few that didn't really like Ragnarok because I thought it was over the top cheesy so sounds like Love and Thunder is going to be more of the same.

It's interesting that Thor is one of my favorite Marvel characters but I haven't really liked any of his individual movies that much.  I think what it is, is that the Avengers movies were the perfect mix of drama and comedy, and he is one of the best characters in those.  But the Thor movies went from pure melodrama (the first 2) to pure over the top comedy (Ragnarok and it sounds like L&T too).  They never really hit that middle ground that the Avengers movies nailed.

 
Love and Thunder is the first MCU I really haven’t liked at all. It’s a major letdown too, because I loved Ragnarok and love The Mighty Thor storyline that this draws from. I disliked nearly everything about this movie though, it just felt lazy, sloppy and poorly executed which is really off-brand for Marvel. 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I am one of the few that didn't really like Ragnarok because I thought it was over the top cheesy so sounds like Love and Thunder is going to be more of the same.

It's interesting that Thor is one of my favorite Marvel characters but I haven't really liked any of his individual movies that much.  I think what it is, is that the Avengers movies were the perfect mix of drama and comedy, and he is one of the best characters in those.  But the Thor movies went from pure melodrama (the first 2) to pure over the top comedy (Ragnarok and it sounds like L&T too).  They never really hit that middle ground that the Avengers movies nailed.
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It definitely hits that silliness meter that a previous poster mentioned (though I think it is a far cry from Deadpool - which was tremendous in its own right). It is in a very similar vein to Ragnarok so if you didn't care for that, you probably won't like this one (which in my opinion is not as good as Ragnarok).  

Again, I thought the movie was pretty good but it sounds like it might not be up your alley.

 
Thought it was just a total snooze fest. I didn’t openly hate it like I did Dr. Strange but it was very boring to me. Christian Bale was awesome I will say. 
 

I think I’m going to be taking a break from the marvel stuff. 25 some odd movies was a good run. The TV shows not so much. 

 
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steelcitysledgehammers said:
Thor:  Love & Thunder

It's a silly film. Almost as tongue in cheek as the "Deadpool" films, stopping just short of having the characters break the 4th wall, but winkingly aware of just how ridiculous and outlandish it is.

I really get the feeling that this script was written backwards from a desired ending. Taika knew where he wanted Thor and Jane and Sif and Valkyrie to be when the story ended, then worked his way back from the end to create the story necessary to get them there. In doing so they recognized there were a number of silly contrivances and assumptions that the audience was going to have to accept so they just leaned into the goofiness in order to make these preposterous plot points more digestible. I chuckled a few times, but most of the gags/humor I found only mildly amusing.

The film did have some inspired moments and some of them pay off but not all of them do. I felt most of the action scenes were too CGI'd. Lots of light and noise, but nothing spectacular when it comes to choreography or originality. The soundtrack was excellent and did much of the heavy lifting to impart the sense of excitement or drama to some scenes.

Overall it was an entertaining film, but I felt it was step down from "Ragnarock". Still better than the original or "The Dark World" (Thor was boring as hell in those films), but it was the best we were going to get in light of the direction they want to take the character. They clearly have plans to continue making Thor films as the end credits promise "Thor will return". "Love and Thunder" does just enough to make sure I'll be returning for the next film, too.

J
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This is a very fair assessment. I enjoyed it, probably because I feel comic book movies can be silly and fun while hitting a few high points like Jane’s storyline. 

without ruining movie for anyone, the final destination is a bit confusing. To think nobody had ever been there before, yet Gorr apparently knew about it and how to get there. Think about how easy (and different) infinity war and end game could have been if Thanos or Thor and Val had just figured out how to get there. 

 
Capella said:
Thought it was just a total snooze fest. I didn’t openly hate it like I did Dr. Strange but it was very boring to me. Christian Bale was awesome I will say. 
 

I think I’m going to be taking a break from the marvel stuff. 25 some odd movies was a good run. The TV shows not so much. 
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Honestly, if you didn’t enjoy this or Dr strange, it’s probably best to take a break from these films. I don’t think they’re going to get less silly or outlandish any time soon. 

 
Love and Thunder was good but I agree it wasn’t nearly as good as Ragnarok (which is probably the best Marvel movie, imo).

I think what really lacked in this Thor movie is that he didn’t have another funny superhero to go back and forth with. If you think back to the movies with Thor/Hulk or Thor/Loki, there was great chemistry and great jokes. I felt like a lot of the jokes in this one were one-sided.

Screaming goats were funny.

And yes, Bale was great (is ever not great in a movie?).

 
-OZ- said:
without ruining movie for anyone, the final destination is a bit confusing. To think nobody had ever been there before, yet Gorr apparently knew about it and how to get there. Think about how easy (and different) infinity war and end game could have been if Thanos or Thor and Val had just figured out how to get there. 
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I believe I saw this get explained in some YT video.  Seems to make sense to me.  Highlight the below as I don't wish to spoil anything.

In order to reach the final destination they needed an item capable of summoning the Bifrost bridge (either Mjolner or Stormbreaker).  Mjolner had been destroyed in Ragnarock and Stormbreaker hadn't been forged by the time he started collecting the Infinity Stones, thus Thanos wouldn't have had access to either item.

HTH.

J

 
Kid and I saw it and thought it was Silly and Weird. Quite the opposite of Strange MoM for sure.  

We enjoyed overall but probably down the ranking list of movies.  Behind Rangnarok but ahead of Dark World and the original Thor.  Bale was great.  Liked the interactions between Val and Foster.

 
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