Jump to content
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Marvel Cinematic Universe - "What if" Now Playing; Shang-Chi on Sept. 3rd


Recommended Posts

The MCU has plenty of heroes, but very few compelling villains. While I did kinda enjoy Loki becoming a more nuanced character by contemplating his motivations and trying to evolve/be better, at some point he has to have a "what the hell am I doing? I'm Loki" moment and go back to trying to burn the whole thing down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Socrates11 said:

The MCU has plenty of heroes, but very few compelling villains.

My 9-year old son kept commenting how Taskmaster was the best villain ever... until he found out she was a girl.  He's watched it a few times since then but is coming back around on her being the best villain.  

 

P.S. I think she has a potential redemption arc in the future should they decide to bring her back.

Edited by Jaysus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Socrates11 said:

The MCU has plenty of heroes, but very few compelling villains. While I did kinda enjoy Loki becoming a more nuanced character by contemplating his motivations and trying to evolve/be better, at some point he has to have a "what the hell am I doing? I'm Loki" moment and go back to trying to burn the whole thing down.

Because the Avengers are so strong, many of the villains in the comics are more Cosmic (Galactus, Skrull, Kree, etc).  Run of the mill villains can't compete with them on an "assembled" level.  The next set of villains we'll see in the MCU (I think) will be Kang for a run, then Dr. Doom.  After that, the introduction of mutants will pull in some great villains (Magneto, Apocalypse, Onslaught, etc).  The benefit of Doom and Magneto is that they are evil leaders who can assemble their own army to form a real threat.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Corporation said:

Because the Avengers are so strong, many of the villains in the comics are more Cosmic (Galactus, Skrull, Kree, etc).  Run of the mill villains can't compete with them on an "assembled" level.  The next set of villains we'll see in the MCU (I think) will be Kang for a run, then Dr. Doom.  After that, the introduction of mutants will pull in some great villains (Magneto, Apocalypse, Onslaught, etc).  The benefit of Doom and Magneto is that they are evil leaders who can assemble their own army to form a real threat.

Magneto should come before the others.  He's kind of like loki in that he wants to conquer the humans but only fights his fellow mutants because they try to stop him. So if they fight a dr doom he might align with him at first to conquer humankind, but then align with the mutants against him later when he realizes mutantkind is in danger. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Jaysus said:

My 9-year old son kept commenting how Taskmaster was the best villain ever... he he found out she was a girl.  He's watched it a few times since then but is coming back around on her being the best villain.  

 

P.S. I think she has a potential redemption arc in the future should they decide to bring her back.

My son absolutely HATED this

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dumb question...

Sylvie pushed Loki through the time door and THEN killed He Who Remains causing the multiverse branches (63 and counting). So when Loki went back, how was he in a new timeline? He was pushed back BEFORE Sylvie killed HWR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jobarules said:

Dumb question...

Sylvie pushed Loki through the time door and THEN killed He Who Remains causing the multiverse branches (63 and counting). So when Loki went back, how was he in a new timeline? He was pushed back BEFORE Sylvie killed HWR.

1) the tva didn't create a single timeline and destroy all the others.  They went to every timeline that wasn't like the sacred one, and made sure they were all doing the same things.  

2) without that guidance, one of the universes eventually produced a bad kang. When he emerged he created a tva of his own that impacted all the other timelines.  So every timeline would eventually become bad kang timeline. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

1) the tva didn't create a single timeline and destroy all the others.  They went to every timeline that wasn't like the sacred one, and made sure they were all doing the same things.  

2) without that guidance, one of the universes eventually produced a bad kang. When he emerged he created a tva of his own that impacted all the other timelines.  So every timeline would eventually become bad kang timeline. 

#2 is important.  Because that gives "our" timeline heroes the goal of getting things back on track from Bad Kang timeline.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, bostonfred said:

1) the tva didn't create a single timeline and destroy all the others.  They went to every timeline that wasn't like the sacred one, and made sure they were all doing the same things.  

2) without that guidance, one of the universes eventually produced a bad kang. When he emerged he created a tva of his own that impacted all the other timelines.  So every timeline would eventually become bad kang timeline. 

I'd be curious to know why a bad Kang would create a TVA particularly one that cares about branches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/17/2021 at 1:33 PM, CletiusMaximus said:

I guess this is possible but seems like wishful thinking to me.  They need to hire and pay better writers to pull something like this off. Wanda vas very clever, good writing IMO, especially the first half. They did a few things that didn’t make sense, but overall very good television. Falcon/soldier and Loki were big disappointments for me, mostly due to what I view as weak, lazy writing.

One of the main disappointments for me in this one was how they completely changed the Loki character. I don’t know the comics, but in the movies he’s supposed to be the God of Mischief, a powerful villain, anti-hero, son of frost giants, magical, strong, devious, ruthless.  This Loki was none of that.  

Then you must have hated Infinity War and End Game with how they nerfed Banner with ridiculous nonsense. Welcome to comics, powers get scaled up/down based on the the plot otherwise Hulk rarely loses. Did the same with Marvel and to a large extent Wanda.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, jobarules said:

I'd be curious to know why a bad Kang would create a TVA particularly one that cares about branches.

Because they came to the same conclusion that sorta good kang did - all the kangs will fight across timelines for supremacy until someone puts a stop to it.  

Imagine there are infinite universes each with a super-powered uber genius.  At least one of those super geniuses decides to do something to one of the other universes.  Why?  It doesn't really matter. There's an infinite supply and one of them does.  Once one of them does, the others all realize they are at war whether they want to be or not.  One way to fight them is one on one, but there are too many of them. 

Eventually one of them starts pruning the other timelines that don't produce someone like him. And that's great for him but terrible for the others. So they go to war with him, maybe they even create competing tvas. They fight and fight and eventually one wins.  That's the one we met.  And eventually that one will get overthrown by someone who doesn't like what he did.  Enter silvie.  

Now there's a bunch of new branches.  And the same thing happens.  And a new war across timelines.  And one kang will win.  This time it's not such a good kang.  The other kangs try to stop him but eventually one wins.  And like anyone who becomes king of the mountain, they try to change the rules to make sure they stay king of the mountain. 

So they create the tva.  

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Hawks64 said:

Then you must have hated Infinity War and End Game with how they nerfed Banner with ridiculous nonsense. Welcome to comics, powers get scaled up/down based on the the plot otherwise Hulk rarely loses. Did the same with Marvel and to a large extent Wanda.

Or Captain marvel who flies around space and finds a needle in a haystack wi th tony stark floating around, then she flies away and doesn't come back until the final battle, blows up the ship but leaves the snap to Tony. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, bostonfred said:

Or Captain marvel who flies around space and finds a needle in a haystack wi th tony stark floating around, then she flies away and doesn't come back until the final battle, blows up the ship but leaves the snap to Tony. 

I kind of feel like this is something Brie Larson would do in real life just to prove a point.

  • Laughing 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/17/2021 at 8:09 PM, Dr. Octopus said:

I think the Spider Man and Dr. Strange movies slated to come out in this phase have multi-verse elements.

They both 100% have multiverse components, Strange is even called the Multiverse of Madness.

3 hours ago, Corporation said:

Because the Avengers are so strong, many of the villains in the comics are more Cosmic (Galactus, Skrull, Kree, etc).  Run of the mill villains can't compete with them on an "assembled" level.  The next set of villains we'll see in the MCU (I think) will be Kang for a run, then Dr. Doom.  After that, the introduction of mutants will pull in some great villains (Magneto, Apocalypse, Onslaught, etc).  The benefit of Doom and Magneto is that they are evil leaders who can assemble their own army to form a real threat.

:X Man I hope not. That was one of the worst arcs in X-Men IMO. All this setup for the big bad and oh it's because Magneto infected Xavier with his hate/anger. Sigh.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really loved how they have handled the multiverse so far. I don't think it ever becomes the norm going forward outside of the culmination of phases or intros to new characters that exist solely in other universes like Spider-man 2099 that are mainstream. I don't think you're going to see the same multiverse regularity that you get in DC where it's pretty much annually you have something from the multiverse that is impacting the main characters timelines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Hawks64 said:

Then you must have hated Infinity War and End Game with how they nerfed Banner with ridiculous nonsense. Welcome to comics, powers get scaled up/down based on the the plot otherwise Hulk rarely loses. Did the same with Marvel and to a large extent Wanda.

Let's not talk about "hate" here in the MCU thread.   Disappointment?  Yes, there's some of that, and perhaps some constructive criticism, but its mostly all about love in here.

  • Love 1
  • Laughing 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, bostonfred said:

1) the tva didn't create a single timeline and destroy all the others.  They went to every timeline that wasn't like the sacred one, and made sure they were all doing the same things.  

2) without that guidance, one of the universes eventually produced a bad kang. When he emerged he created a tva of his own that impacted all the other timelines.  So every timeline would eventually become bad kang timeline. 

I hope that timeline doesn't bring back, Iron Man, Captain America, Vision, and Black Widow. With new actors or the same actors. It would ruin End Game and IMO ruin what the original actors accomplished. 

  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, msudaisy26 said:

I hope that timeline doesn't bring back, Iron Man, Captain America, Vision, and Black Widow. With new actors or the same actors. It would ruin End Game and IMO ruin what the original actors accomplished. 

I think (hope) they are smart enough to avoid that.  Once you open that can of worms it is difficult to close it, but the general public is not going to buy the "Oh he's back from the dead" card too many times.  It would lose all the emotional wallop if RDJ says "I am Iron Man!" and then "oops" rewind time and he's back in 2 movies.  It is an instrument that should be played very infrequently.

It would be interesting to consider something like this for Black Panther and Chadwick Boseman.  Boseman's performance is iconic and too closely tied to the character to do a universe swap in my opinion, but it's such a shame as that character had such a great runway in front of him.  You can swap out Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle because it was minor character at that point (and only one appearance) but having a new actor in as Black Panther T'Challa wouldn't cut it.

The one caveat I would have on that, and it would be cool if the upcoming "What if" series kind of foreshadowed it, but it could be really interesting if they pull Killmonger from a timeline where he was King of Wakanda as the new Black Panther in the "main" timeline.  Michael B. Jordan nearly stole the whole show with his performance.  As is, I think they end up with Shuri being Black Panther at some point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Corporation said:

I think (hope) they are smart enough to avoid that.  Once you open that can of worms it is difficult to close it, but the general public is not going to buy the "Oh he's back from the dead" card too many times.  It would lose all the emotional wallop if RDJ says "I am Iron Man!" and then "oops" rewind time and he's back in 2 movies.  It is an instrument that should be played very infrequently.

It would be interesting to consider something like this for Black Panther and Chadwick Boseman.  Boseman's performance is iconic and too closely tied to the character to do a universe swap in my opinion, but it's such a shame as that character had such a great runway in front of him.  You can swap out Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle because it was minor character at that point (and only one appearance) but having a new actor in as Black Panther T'Challa wouldn't cut it.

The one caveat I would have on that, and it would be cool if the upcoming "What if" series kind of foreshadowed it, but it could be really interesting if they pull Killmonger from a timeline where he was King of Wakanda as the new Black Panther in the "main" timeline.  Michael B. Jordan nearly stole the whole show with his performance.  As is, I think they end up with Shuri being Black Panther at some point.

 

The one exception to this would be a cameo. If Downey or Evans showed up like Stan Lee did or even a small part like Howard Stark in End Game. That would be cool. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Corporation said:

I think (hope) they are smart enough to avoid that.  Once you open that can of worms it is difficult to close it, but the general public is not going to buy the "Oh he's back from the dead" card too many times.  It would lose all the emotional wallop if RDJ says "I am Iron Man!" and then "oops" rewind time and he's back in 2 movies.  It is an instrument that should be played very infrequently.


We’ve already got Gamora running around after death. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Nick Vermeil said:
5 hours ago, Corporation said:

I think (hope) they are smart enough to avoid that.  Once you open that can of worms it is difficult to close it, but the general public is not going to buy the "Oh he's back from the dead" card too many times.  It would lose all the emotional wallop if RDJ says "I am Iron Man!" and then "oops" rewind time and he's back in 2 movies.  It is an instrument that should be played very infrequently.


We’ve already got Gamora running around after death. 

I know, I'm hoping that's why they won't play it again.  Makes it too convenient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, bostonfred said:

1) the tva didn't create a single timeline and destroy all the others.  They went to every timeline that wasn't like the sacred one, and made sure they were all doing the same things.  

2) without that guidance, one of the universes eventually produced a bad kang. When he emerged he created a tva of his own that impacted all the other timelines.  So every timeline would eventually become bad kang timeline. 

1. To be clear here, the TVA didn't go prune every time something was different. Just when it started to create a hostile branch. Otherwise Sylvie wouldn't have even been born. Old Loki wouldn't have been able to survive at all, etc. 

 

I don't know if it's been said or debunked already, but the merging of timelines may be how old man Steve got back to Bruce, bucky and Sam.

Edited by -OZ-
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw Black Widow over the weekend and it was just "meh" to me. I thought the supporting cast was great but ScarJo didn't seem to have the comedic chemistry with them (much like Hemsworth has with Loki actor).

Worth a watch but I wouldn't run out to see it if you haven't yet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/19/2021 at 8:48 AM, Socrates11 said:

The MCU has plenty of heroes, but very few compelling villains. While I did kinda enjoy Loki becoming a more nuanced character by contemplating his motivations and trying to evolve/be better, at some point he has to have a "what the hell am I doing? I'm Loki" moment and go back to trying to burn the whole thing down.

I disagree.......particularly those in the last phases.  Michael Keaton's Vulture, Thanos, Hela, Killmonger from Black Panther......all of them KINDA of had a point.  Much more character depth(as one can get in a comic book movie) in them than most of the heroes.  Their motivations resonated....

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Corporation said:

I think (hope) they are smart enough to avoid that.  Once you open that can of worms it is difficult to close it, but the general public is not going to buy the "Oh he's back from the dead" card too many times.  It would lose all the emotional wallop if RDJ says "I am Iron Man!" and then "oops" rewind time and he's back in 2 movies.  It is an instrument that should be played very infrequently.

It would be interesting to consider something like this for Black Panther and Chadwick Boseman.  Boseman's performance is iconic and too closely tied to the character to do a universe swap in my opinion, but it's such a shame as that character had such a great runway in front of him.  You can swap out Terrence Howard for Don Cheadle because it was minor character at that point (and only one appearance) but having a new actor in as Black Panther T'Challa wouldn't cut it.

The one caveat I would have on that, and it would be cool if the upcoming "What if" series kind of foreshadowed it, but it could be really interesting if they pull Killmonger from a timeline where he was King of Wakanda as the new Black Panther in the "main" timeline.  Michael B. Jordan nearly stole the whole show with his performance.  As is, I think they end up with Shuri being Black Panther at some point.

They don't bring back RDJ or Evans for good...it's more of a cameo or just a moment. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Saw Black Widow last night. I thought it was meh. It's still Marvel so it's good but not one of their best. I thought it was fairly obvious that this movie was made during the #meto time period.

The bad guy was even a Weinstein look alike.

Lots of girl power, men are pieces of ^&$%, and if you do happen to have a small amount of decency as a man your a buffon.

I don't want to spoil anything but later I need the post credit scene explained. It confused me although I could make a guess at it's meaning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, prosopis said:

Saw Black Widow last night. I thought it was meh. It's still Marvel so it's good but not one of their best. I thought it was fairly obvious that this movie was made during the #meto time period.

The bad guy was even a Weinstein look alike.

Lots of girl power, men are pieces of ^&$%, and if you do happen to have a small amount of decency as a man your a buffon.

I don't want to spoil anything but later I need the post credit scene explained. It confused me although I could make a guess at it's meaning.

You just described 90% of all TV shows and movies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, McBokonon said:

ScarJo suing Disney

“Black Widow” star Scarlett Johansson has filed a lawsuit against Walt Disney Co (NYSE:DIS) that alleges the release of the new Marvel action film in a simultaneous streaming premiere with its theatrical run is a breach of her contract.

There are going to be a lot of these lawsuits.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/22/2021 at 7:48 AM, prosopis said:

Saw Black Widow last night. I thought it was meh. It's still Marvel so it's good but not one of their best. I thought it was fairly obvious that this movie was made during the #meto time period.

The bad guy was even a Weinstein look alike.

Lots of girl power, men are pieces of ^&$%, and if you do happen to have a small amount of decency as a man your a buffon.

I don't want to spoil anything but later I need the post credit scene explained. It confused me although I could make a guess at it's meaning.


You have to have watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney + for it to make sense I think. JLD’s character is introduced there. Seems like they are setting up the plot of the upcoming hawkeye show with that scene 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Moe. said:
On 7/22/2021 at 7:48 AM, prosopis said:

Saw Black Widow last night. I thought it was meh. It's still Marvel so it's good but not one of their best. I thought it was fairly obvious that this movie was made during the #meto time period.

The bad guy was even a Weinstein look alike.

Lots of girl power, men are pieces of ^&$%, and if you do happen to have a small amount of decency as a man your a buffon.

I don't want to spoil anything but later I need the post credit scene explained. It confused me although I could make a guess at it's meaning.

Expand  


You have to have watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney + for it to make sense I think. JLD’s character is introduced there. Seems like they are setting up the plot of the upcoming hawkeye show with that scene 

They actually shot and intended the scene we see in Black Widow to appear first, similar to Nick Cage showing up to talk to Stark after the first Iron Man movie.  Because of the release dates being rearranged, it turned out we already knew who she was from Falcon and the Winter Soldier.  Yes, this appears to be really setting up the Hawkeye show.

I'm really looking forward to "What if" soon.  I have a lesser anticipation for Hawkeye, probably somewhere along the lines of where I was looking forward to FatWS.  

Edited by Corporation
ETA: That should be Nick Fury :lmao: Although a "What If" show about Nick Fury being portrayed by Nick Cage would be money well spent :D
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Corporation said:

They actually shot and intended the scene we see in Black Widow to appear first, similar to Nick Cage showing up to talk to Stark after the first Iron Man movie.  Because of the release dates being rearranged, it turned out we already knew who she was from Falcon and the Winter Soldier.  Yes, this appears to be really setting up the Hawkeye show.

I'm really looking forward to "What if" soon.  I have a lesser anticipation for Hawkeye, probably somewhere along the lines of where I was looking forward to FatWS.  

 

I had no idea, but that's pretty cool. I am really looking forward to "What if" too. I'm in the minority in that I really really liked FatWS, so I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised by Hawkeye as well. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/29/2021 at 12:22 PM, Moe. said:


You have to have watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier on Disney + for it to make sense I think. JLD’s character is introduced there. Seems like they are setting up the plot of the upcoming hawkeye show with that scene 

Rumors that it has a small part to play in Hawkeye but is more about setting up the Thunderbolts.

 

And I am looking forward to Hawkeye.  Well, more looking forward to whatever Marvel is putting in front of me next.....

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/29/2021 at 12:44 PM, Leeroy Jenkins said:

Is there anyone looking forward to Hawkeye?

 

The "My Life as a Weapon" Hawkeye series in the comics is one of the best runs of any comic in the last 20 years, and the D+ series is supposedly going to draw on that. Kate Bishop is also one of my favorite characters, so I'm really looking forward to seeing her in the MCU. On the other hand, I have never really been a fan of Jeremy Renner in the role and his setup in the MCU limits how much they can bring in from the comics (Hawkeye is a notorious bachelor in the comics and My Life as a Weapon plays that up a lot). 

So I'm looking forward to it but keeping my expectations kinda low. How good Kate is will probably swing it one way or the other for me. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Nick Vermeil said:
1 hour ago, Capella said:

Yea I didn’t really care for it at all. Not sure this multiverse stuff is for me. 

I will wait for @Corporation to tell me if I should like it.  

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt right now based on past performance, but it is a slippery slope.  

Going to watch What If a little later with my son.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Capella said:
1 hour ago, Nick Vermeil said:

Is "What if" today?

Yea I didn’t really care for it at all. Not sure this multiverse stuff is for me. 

I haven't watched it yet, so I won't look for a reply here until I see it, but the comic series were essentially some one offs that explore what could have happened.  I don't think anything from these is going to impact the mainline MCU.  If they are implying that it does, that's a pretty big problem.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So I watched it, it was pretty good.  Animation was top notch and cool that they got a lot of the voice actors.  The story was kind of ho hum.  I'm interpreting this as a one off and not anything to be included in the mainline MCU. Initial feel it will rank behind the 3 series already released.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Corporation said:

So I watched it, it was pretty good.  Animation was top notch and cool that they got a lot of the voice actors.  The story was kind of ho hum.  I'm interpreting this as a one off and not anything to be included in the mainline MCU. Initial feel it will rank behind the 3 series already released.

:goodposting:

Kid and I watched.  Decent IMO, but nothing great.  She thought it was ok.  We will keep watching for the interest in how stories could have changed.  She did say she liked Captain Carter more than Captain America though (She thought she kicked more ####).  

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Corporation changed the title to Marvel Cinematic Universe - "What if" Now Playing; Shang-Chi on Sept. 3rd

Second episode was so much better even though it followed the same concept of “what if this character became this character” (which is a bit lazy).

Thanos was amazing in this one, and he alone made this episode worth watching.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
  • Create New...