What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

Marvel Cinematic Universe - Can Deadpool Save the MCU? You betcha, friendo! (9 Viewers)

Leeroy Jenkins said:
I mean, I enjoyed watching, I think?

Seemed like mostly a waste of characters though. Disjointed. Still not sure what’s up with the FlagSmashers. Sharon Carter twist was pretty obvious and I really didn’t care. Like the entire Powebroker plot was pointless really. 
 

I dunno. The show suffered from the same issues I was complaining about up-thread the whole way through and there wasn’t much redemption in the final episode. 
Click to expand...
Not at all, I didn’t give a crap about Karli. She just wanted to kill people and all it would have done is make them look worse. I had no sympathy for her and her people definitely weren’t behind her so it just seemed so odd that she was still hailed at the end.

Also, the fact that they had people in the meeting and army, etc. was a bit silly. I guess you could say the Power Broker (obvious reveal) arranged it but she’s it still doesn’t seem like she’d have people in every spot needed to pull thy off versus having criminal friends like frenchie. They spent 0 time on how they got that whole plan all together, kind of a big leap of faith.

I think disjointed was the best way to describe it but they clearly had a today’s political theme that they wanted to push. Unfortunately, sometimes that doesn’t work smoothly. I liked the guy from Alias’ story and redemption, but trying to make Karli into a hero fell flat. I would have rather seen them get a loan for the boat.

 
DA RAIDERS said:
I enjoyed it.  I’m a simpleton.  I liked the glimpses into real life  and I don't always need a show, that must be explained by some uber nerd, that watches it frame by frame.  Who was the French dude?  🤣

still have trouble with him not having powers.  That new suit better have vibranium up in it  

Whoever was in charge of the helicopter scenes throughout the show, should  not be in charge of anything anymore. 
Click to expand...
Lol. The helicopter part was terrible. Again, they were refugees that took super soldier serum but that guy was the best helicopter pilot that ever existed all while being able to shoot an automatic weapon.

 
stbugs said:
Lol. The helicopter part was terrible. Again, they were refugees that took super soldier serum but that guy was the best helicopter pilot that ever existed all while being able to shoot an automatic weapon.
Click to expand...
I was just remembering how badass Falcon was on his miltary mission in the first episode and then he seemed to be mostly outdueled by this clown in a helicoptor full of hostages.

He and Bucky's skills just seemed all over the map.

 
So I enjoyed Falcon a lot. It could have been better in a few ways, but had fun with it.

Only complaint I'm going to lodge is his uniform. Whether or not it's reflective of the comics, it looks awful.

It's the awful white parts at the top. He looks like a brand new tennis shoe.

 
I’m glad that’s over.  I can’t remember the last time I was that bored with a Marvel product.  Sam as Captain America doesn’t work for me.  He’s just not believable as someone who can fight anyone higher than an average criminal.  He’s like a Pinto version of Iron Man. 

And Bucky is just a shell of his former badass self.  Ugh. 

Hopefully Loki will deliver. 

 
Andrew74 said:
I’m glad that’s over.  I can’t remember the last time I was that bored with a Marvel product.  Sam as Captain America doesn’t work for me.  He’s just not believable as someone who can fight anyone higher than an average criminal.  He’s like a Pinto version of Iron Man. 

And Bucky is just a shell of his former badass self.  Ugh. 

Hopefully Loki will deliver. 
Click to expand...
The new uniform needed some vibranium to level him up. There were no new toys with it. 

 
stbugs said:
Lol. The helicopter part was terrible. Again, they were refugees that took super soldier serum but that guy was the best helicopter pilot that ever existed all while being able to shoot an automatic weapon.
Click to expand...
Yeah parts of it you just have to move on with suspension of disbelief.  I understood when the super soldiers beat KMart Cap before he took the super serum, but after that when they were on equal footing, his training should have wiped the ground with them.

Overall it was solid but pales in comparison to WandaVision IMO.  I'll have to look for Feige's quote that these shows aren't must watch TV, Wanda for sure has to play in to future movies and since Falcon is now Captain America, that will be in play going forward as well.

 
Corporation said:
Yeah parts of it you just have to move on with suspension of disbelief.  I understood when the super soldiers beat KMart Cap before he took the super serum, but after that when they were on equal footing, his training should have wiped the ground with them.

Overall it was solid but pales in comparison to WandaVision IMO.  I'll have to look for Feige's quote that these shows aren't must watch TV, Wanda for sure has to play in to future movies and since Falcon is now Captain America, that will be in play going forward as well.
Click to expand...
I enjoyed it, but I think they just tried too hard to put too much in it. There just wasn’t enough time in 6 episodes. WV was all one thing, Wanda’s grief and real power created that world and everything else including the bad witch was part of that theme. This had a whole episode of Forrest Gump/Captain Ron, Bucky and his redemption, Kmart Cap full arc from good to bad to good again, Elaine random appearances, Sharon and her reveal, Zemo full arc from escape to good guy/bad guy and imprisonment, the guy from Alias’ complete history and redemption, Wakandans jumping into the story for Zemo but also delivering new cap suit, frenchie coming back only to get shot quickly to end his mini-arc, Karli and the flag smashers are they good, bad or indifferent and of course Sam’s loan troubles, family visits and transformation from Falcon to Captain.

There was just so much that there was no way for it not to feel a bit disjointed and forced. The last show had some cool moments but they did so much to try and wrap everything up in one shot while also solving all of society’s ills. Reminded me of End Game where they felt the need to shove the girls can do it scene in our faces. We are all in here saying how much we like WV and no one once said oh a girl can’t have that type of power. I loved it in End Game when the all the ships guns started firing in the sky and when Wanda was just crushing Thanos, but when you force stuff for a message it makes it hokey because it stands out and doesn’t flow.

 
Jayrod said:
He and Bucky's skills just seemed all over the map.
Click to expand...


Andrew74 said:
And Bucky is just a shell of his former badass self.  Ugh. 
Click to expand...


Corporation said:
I understood when the super soldiers beat KMart Cap before he took the super serum, but after that when they were on equal footing, his training should have wiped the ground with them.
Click to expand...
Agree with all of this. It seemed so much like people’s results were all about the scene, good guys and bad guys. That’s where the disjointed feel came from and why it just wasn’t as good as WV. Too much to cover and they took too many shortcuts to get there.

 
foxco said:
Solid show. My wife made me stop halfway through the last episode to explain why everyone was fighting and who's side everyone was on. I place the blame half on Marvel, half on my wife.
Click to expand...
I started to re-watch Civil War, only saw it once at the release, and the first 20 minutes or so explains the entire series.  It was quite enlightening. lol

 
stbugs said:
Not at all, I didn’t give a crap about Karli. She just wanted to kill people and all it would have done is make them look worse. I had no sympathy for her and her people definitely weren’t behind her so it just seemed so odd that she was still hailed at the end.

Also, the fact that they had people in the meeting and army, etc. was a bit silly. I guess you could say the Power Broker (obvious reveal) arranged it but she’s it still doesn’t seem like she’d have people in every spot needed to pull thy off versus having criminal friends like frenchie. They spent 0 time on how they got that whole plan all together, kind of a big leap of faith.

I think disjointed was the best way to describe it but they clearly had a today’s political theme that they wanted to push. Unfortunately, sometimes that doesn’t work smoothly. I liked the guy from Alias’ story and redemption, but trying to make Karli into a hero fell flat. I would have rather seen them get a loan for the boat.
Click to expand...
I don't think she was hailed at all.  There was a message of "think differently".   Hydra also had the motto of "for every one you kill two will take it's place". It draws parallels to real life. Think Afghanistan.  It didn't work out so well for the Russians and we went in there doing the same thing and shocker, didn't work out so well.  The same thing keep repeating the same policies and getting undesired results can of course be applied to domestic policies worldwide too.  So again, I don't think she was hailed as much as the lesson was to LISTEN. You might not like what you hear but continuing the same policy, GRC in this case, is only going to bring more Karlis out from the shadows. 

ETA

It is really a message about each of our lives too.  If you and your partner/friend/family member/child/boss, whomever, only see things as your way is the absolute right way, that there can be no middle ground, all parties will be miserable and have lost. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
GregR said:
So I enjoyed Falcon a lot. It could have been better in a few ways, but had fun with it.

Only complaint I'm going to lodge is his uniform. Whether or not it's reflective of the comics, it looks awful.

It's the awful white parts at the top. He looks like a brand new tennis shoe.
Click to expand...
Yeah, also thought the new uniform looked terrible as well but didn’t want to bring it up since a big theme is Americans can’t accept a black Captain America :oldunsure:  They struggled to get Cap’s uniform look right from the first Avengers movie through the next few as well so hopefully his gets redone next time we see him.

 
Corporation said:
Yeah parts of it you just have to move on with suspension of disbelief.  I understood when the super soldiers beat KMart Cap before he took the super serum, but after that when they were on equal footing, his training should have wiped the ground with them.

Overall it was solid but pales in comparison to WandaVision IMO.  I'll have to look for Feige's quote that these shows aren't must watch TV, Wanda for sure has to play in to future movies and since Falcon is now Captain America, that will be in play going forward as well.
Click to expand...
I may have misunderstood how it was reported a bit, here’s the quote:

“We’ve already said that Lizzie Olsen will go from WandaVision into the new Dr. Strangefilm. There were lots of conversations with Sam Raimi and Michael Waldron and the entire Dr. Strange team that this movie needs to work for people who watched WandaVision but, more importantly, needs to work for people who didn’t, who maybe Endgame was the last time they saw Wanda, or one of the earlier movies, or maybe she’s a character they’re meeting for the first time. There will always be different layers of understanding, but we don’t want there to be a barrier to entry.“

It makes sense they would construct things that way, but it does give me a similar foreboding feeling similar to the webisodes format and marvel one-shots or when the Netflix shows started out and then eventually got abandoned. Or when AoS started out as being important tie-in’s and a companion to the movies and eventually were left behind to find their own way and were kind of treated as a red-headed step-child. The D+ and streaming thing “is so hot right now” but somewhat worried they won’t follow through once that cools down.

 
2Squirrels1Nut said:
I don't think she was hailed at all.  There was a message of "think differently".   Hydra also had the motto of "for every one you kill two will take it's place". It draws parallels to real life. Think Afghanistan.  It didn't work out so well for the Russians and we went in there doing the same thing and shocker, didn't work out so well.  The same thing keep repeating the same policies and getting undesired results can of course be applied to domestic policies worldwide too.  So again, I don't think she was hailed as much as the lesson was to LISTEN. You might not like what you hear but continuing the same policy, GRC in this case, is only going to bring more Karlis out from the shadows. 

ETA

It is really a message about each of our lives too.  If you and your partner/friend/family member/child/boss, whomever, only see things as your way is the absolute right way, that there can be no middle ground, all parties will be miserable and have lost. 
Click to expand...
I get what you are saying and I didn’t miss what they were trying to say, but Captain America carried her body into the news cameras. There’s no way you can misinterpret that or the speech he gave afterwards. It was clearly on the she’s misunderstood theme and she wasn’t a terrorist. We are sort of saying similar things. Personally, I just didn’t care for her at all at that point because she only wanted people to die. I wasn’t a big fan of CA carrying her in like she was some sort of hero.

 
stbugs said:
I enjoyed it, but I think they just tried too hard to put too much in it. There just wasn’t enough time in 6 episodes. WV was all one thing, Wanda’s grief and real power created that world and everything else including the bad witch was part of that theme. This had a whole episode of Forrest Gump/Captain Ron, Bucky and his redemption, Kmart Cap full arc from good to bad to good again, Elaine random appearances, Sharon and her reveal, Zemo full arc from escape to good guy/bad guy and imprisonment, the guy from Alias’ complete history and redemption, Wakandans jumping into the story for Zemo but also delivering new cap suit, frenchie coming back only to get shot quickly to end his mini-arc, Karli and the flag smashers are they good, bad or indifferent and of course Sam’s loan troubles, family visits and transformation from Falcon to Captain.

There was just so much that there was no way for it not to feel a bit disjointed and forced. The last show had some cool moments but they did so much to try and wrap everything up in one shot while also solving all of society’s ills. Reminded me of End Game where they felt the need to shove the girls can do it scene in our faces. We are all in here saying how much we like WV and no one once said oh a girl can’t have that type of power. I loved it in End Game when the all the ships guns started firing in the sky and when Wanda was just crushing Thanos, but when you force stuff for a message it makes it hokey because it stands out and doesn’t flow.
Click to expand...
IMO, this series was either about 3-4 episodes too short or 3 episodes too long. They either needed to expand on a bunch of stuff they shortcutted or cut some of it out to make it tighter.

 
Buckna said:
Yeah, also thought the new uniform looked terrible as well but didn’t want to bring it up since a big theme is Americans can’t accept a black Captain America :oldunsure:  They struggled to get Cap’s uniform look right from the first Avengers movie through the next few as well so hopefully his gets redone next time we see him.
Click to expand...
I think Cap’s changing uniform was actually just the uniform changing to reflect his current situation and feeling towards government, etc. That matches how things played out for Captain America and his uniform in the comics I believe. 

 
I don't know much about the MCU mythology. I've never read the comics and seen ... maybe 40% of the movies? So this show I just watched on a surface level to enjoy. And as a buddy cop show - it was ok. There were some fun moments and some poignant ones. 

But the big part I didn't get - Karli. They kept trying to save her and it never really made sense. I think there wasn't enough of her character development to really make me give a damn about her. To me, she just seemed like a garden variety terrorist. A terrorist with a sympathetic cause, but a terrorist nonetheless.

 
stbugs said:
I get what you are saying and I didn’t miss what they were trying to say, but Captain America carried her body into the news cameras. There’s no way you can misinterpret that or the speech he gave afterwards. It was clearly on the she’s misunderstood theme and she wasn’t a terrorist. We are sort of saying similar things. Personally, I just didn’t care for her at all at that point because she only wanted people to die. I wasn’t a big fan of CA carrying her in like she was some sort of hero.
Click to expand...
100% agree on the bolded.   

I guess CA carrying her body could certainly be viewed that way.  

"Everyone was in favor of saving Hitler's brain. But when you put it in the body of a great white shark. Ooo, suddenly you go too far!" ―Professor Farnsworth

 
whoknew said:
I don't know much about the MCU mythology. I've never read the comics and seen ... maybe 40% of the movies? So this show I just watched on a surface level to enjoy. And as a buddy cop show - it was ok. There were some fun moments and some poignant ones. 

But the big part I didn't get - Karli. They kept trying to save her and it never really made sense. I think there wasn't enough of her character development to really make me give a damn about her. To me, she just seemed like a garden variety terrorist. A terrorist with a sympathetic cause, but a terrorist nonetheless.
Click to expand...
I didn't view it as trying to save her like "we cool".  It was more negotiation for a truce. 

I don't know. I enjoyed the series.

 
GroveDiesel said:
I think Cap’s changing uniform was actually just the uniform changing to reflect his current situation and feeling towards government, etc. That matches how things played out for Captain America and his uniform in the comics I believe. 
Click to expand...
Narratively yes, they tried to call back to some of the classic uniforms from the comics. Behind the scenes they have often talked about really struggling to get his uniform right between fan service/call backs and actually looking good/useful/real on screen. Supposedly people really hated the one he wears at the beginning of Winter Soldier for example.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Buckna said:
I may have misunderstood how it was reported a bit, here’s the quote:

“We’ve already said that Lizzie Olsen will go from WandaVision into the new Dr. Strangefilm. There were lots of conversations with Sam Raimi and Michael Waldron and the entire Dr. Strange team that this movie needs to work for people who watched WandaVision but, more importantly, needs to work for people who didn’t, who maybe Endgame was the last time they saw Wanda, or one of the earlier movies, or maybe she’s a character they’re meeting for the first time. There will always be different layers of understanding, but we don’t want there to be a barrier to entry.“

It makes sense they would construct things that way, but it does give me a similar foreboding feeling similar to the webisodes format and marvel one-shots or when the Netflix shows started out and then eventually got abandoned. Or when AoS started out as being important tie-in’s and a companion to the movies and eventually were left behind to find their own way and were kind of treated as a red-headed step-child. The D+ and streaming thing “is so hot right now” but somewhat worried they won’t follow through once that cools down.
Click to expand...
I can see your interpretation. The movies will always be the big money makers, so the producers have to walk a fine line between alienating the movie audience at the expense of the TV audience. The movies always have to be more general due to time constraints, so I think they will "catch up" the movie only audience by making quick references to what has happened to the characters since the last time they were on the big screen. The TV audience has more time available and as such you see more character development that the movies just don't typically have time for.  That is one reason why this entire movie run has been so incredible. It has given the movie audience the opportunity to see character growth from start to end. The D+ shows will allow for further character development for characters who did not get as much screen time in a very crowded film series. While the D+ shows may not be essential, I think they will definitely offer the TV audience a fuller, richer experience.

I hear you on AoS, it was disappointing when they kind of left it behind but the difference here is that the D+ shows are using the actual Avenger actors (I remember Nick Fury and Sif appearing in AoS, but not the same). They will be hard pressed to leave the D+ shows behind.  As much as I loved the Netflix offerings, those characters were never in the MCU movies and as such are easier to drop off.

 
jobarules said:
I didnt get Falcons obsession with saving a terrorist who killed innocent people.
Click to expand...
The character was not strong, no doubt about it.  They did her a disservice when she killed the innocent people as well.  What they were going for (but really kind of missed) was a cry to expand our view from whatever echo chamber we may be in and look at things from a different perspective. History is written by the victors. Had the United States lost the Revolutionary War, George Washington and company would have been viewed as terrorist rebels. Instead, they are heroes.

In this instance, you have people who have lived 5 years after the most traumatic event ever.  They have rebuilt their lives, even with invitations from other countries to help them rebuild their society. When the events of Endgame reverse the blip, they are now being uprooted and forcibly removed in an instant. As was pointed out in the show, there are no easy answers.  What of the people who were gone 5 years and now someone is living in their house? It's not their fault they were blipped, but it's also not the fault of the person who moved in.  There was no reason to believe anyone was coming back from that. It's a complex situation that requires compassion. It was an attempt at a noble message that missed because of poor character development of the main "villain". 

As others have rightly pointed out, there were way too many storylines jammed into 6 episodes and as a result almost none of them had a satisfactory ending. I thought the show was pretty good and enjoyed it for what it was but it certainly fell far short of WandaVision.  I think they have a better idea of what they want to do with Loki, and the setup of the series makes it easier to be episodic so my hopes are high. The real highpoint in this series was the character with the least amount of screen time. Julia Louis-Dreyfus crushed it.

 
Corporation said:
The character was not strong, no doubt about it.  They did her a disservice when she killed the innocent people as well.  What they were going for (but really kind of missed) was a cry to expand our view from whatever echo chamber we may be in and look at things from a different perspective. History is written by the victors. Had the United States lost the Revolutionary War, George Washington and company would have been viewed as terrorist rebels. Instead, they are heroes.

In this instance, you have people who have lived 5 years after the most traumatic event ever.  They have rebuilt their lives, even with invitations from other countries to help them rebuild their society. When the events of Endgame reverse the blip, they are now being uprooted and forcibly removed in an instant. As was pointed out in the show, there are no easy answers.  What of the people who were gone 5 years and now someone is living in their house? It's not their fault they were blipped, but it's also not the fault of the person who moved in.  There was no reason to believe anyone was coming back from that. It's a complex situation that requires compassion. It was an attempt at a noble message that missed because of poor character development of the main "villain". 

As others have rightly pointed out, there were way too many storylines jammed into 6 episodes and as a result almost none of them had a satisfactory ending. I thought the show was pretty good and enjoyed it for what it was but it certainly fell far short of WandaVision.  I think they have a better idea of what they want to do with Loki, and the setup of the series makes it easier to be episodic so my hopes are high. The real highpoint in this series was the character with the least amount of screen time. Julia Louis-Dreyfus crushed it.
Click to expand...
You put it way better than I did. Thank you for conveying what I couldn't. 

Also, rumor is

Contessa Valentina Allegra de Fontaine accidentally pushes the Power Broker into a high voltage electrical coil telling her to "get out", killing her. She then says "why didn't you tell me that the floor was wet, TODDDDDDD!!!!!!"
 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Corporation said:
The character was not strong, no doubt about it.  They did her a disservice when she killed the innocent people as well.  What they were going for (but really kind of missed) was a cry to expand our view from whatever echo chamber we may be in and look at things from a different perspective. History is written by the victors. Had the United States lost the Revolutionary War, George Washington and company would have been viewed as terrorist rebels. Instead, they are heroes.

In this instance, you have people who have lived 5 years after the most traumatic event ever.  They have rebuilt their lives, even with invitations from other countries to help them rebuild their society. When the events of Endgame reverse the blip, they are now being uprooted and forcibly removed in an instant. As was pointed out in the show, there are no easy answers.  What of the people who were gone 5 years and now someone is living in their house? It's not their fault they were blipped, but it's also not the fault of the person who moved in.  There was no reason to believe anyone was coming back from that. It's a complex situation that requires compassion. It was an attempt at a noble message that missed because of poor character development of the main "villain". 

As others have rightly pointed out, there were way too many storylines jammed into 6 episodes and as a result almost none of them had a satisfactory ending. I thought the show was pretty good and enjoyed it for what it was but it certainly fell far short of WandaVision.  I think they have a better idea of what they want to do with Loki, and the setup of the series makes it easier to be episodic so my hopes are high. The real highpoint in this series was the character with the least amount of screen time. Julia Louis-Dreyfus crushed it.
Click to expand...
Wow. This is a great post. I would also add Bucky to that list of awesome. 

 
I can't wait for Loki.  Probably my favorite characte after Spidey. 

One last question about F&WS.  I guess it was Wanda that temporarily turned fake Cap into a bobble head at the end of episode 4?

 
Finale was a bit of a let down but looks to be setting up Cap 4 or another season of CaTWS.  Most of it was very predictable despite the fun fight scenes.

I enjoyed the series though. Despite all the disjointed storylines, at the end it was about two characters finding their place in the world after Endgame.  Both guys coming to terms with why Sam was given the shield and what that means for them both.  Bucky finding his place beyond Cap now free from the WS.  Nice little action series after the wackiness of WV and large scale scope of IW/EG.  

I feel like Marvel is almost rebooting but using characters you know and are invested in to restart on a smaller scale.  WV, CaTWS, Loki, Black Widow then introducing Shang-Chi and The Eternals before getting back into the larger universe with Spider-Man.

***********

I also posted in the funny things kids say thread but my daughter was acting silly, so I asked her "What ARE you doing?"

She replied with "Dance off Bro!"

Warms the heart she can quote Starlord when needed.  Although she doesn't look to be interested in Shang-Chi.  I'm actually looking forward to it.

 
Kid and I talking about shows this morning.  Told her the making Falcon and the Winter Soldier would be on tonight for us to watch, like the one for WandaVision was.

She replied "Captain America and the Winter Soldier"

:lmao: She rocks.

 
It had it's problems, but i thought it was a lot better than agent carter.  I think people have some crazy expectations because it's marvel.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I’ve had some free time over the past few weeks so I slow watched Winter Soldier and Civil War. I say it made the idea of Falcon becoming CA make more sense.  I had forgotten how enamored Sam was with Steve.  He, like Bucky, would have done anything for him.  Probably would have been better to watch those before FatWS as a refresher.  
 

But it was still a mediocre show IMO.  

 
Andrew74 said:
I’m glad that’s over.  I can’t remember the last time I was that bored with a Marvel product.  Sam as Captain America doesn’t work for me.  He’s just not believable as someone who can fight anyone higher than an average criminal.  He’s like a Pinto version of Iron Man. 

And Bucky is just a shell of his former badass self.  Ugh. 

Hopefully Loki will deliver. 
Click to expand...
Say that to his face!

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 8 (members: 0, guests: 8)
Top