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Guest General Tso

Beli is a great coach but he is horrible at drafting. ....as in the worst in the league.

http://q.usatoday.com/2014/05/07/nfl-draft-best-teams-seattle-seahawks-san-francisco-49ers-tennessee-titans-new-england-

patriots/

Biggest crock of ##### I've ever read.

In such a talented, deep draft - with a ton of

picks - they still managed to screw it up. Like the guy above said, they could have had Bridgewater and Nix.

Yes, your analysis is much more thorough and fact based.

Do you like their draft? Please, talk me off the ledge.
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Exactly how many starting positions are up for grabs? Easley was their first pick and he will be a rotational player this year. The idea that they reduce their chance of winning next year by drafting a QB for the future as opposed to a depth pick doesn't hold much water.

Disagree...this team is real close...they have one of the best QBs of all time with a closing window...during this window who their backup is doesn't really matter...if Brady goes down they aren't winning it regardless of who the backup is...adding another TE, or Safety or pass-rusher helps them far more than a player who has zero chance of seeing the field next year if Brady stays healthy...especially if they hit on that pick and get another Gronk, Hernandez, Volmer, Samuel, Ridley, Collins or Logan Ryan (i.e. a kid who can contribute in year one who they got after the first round)...the Pats are right there and adding another player or two that can contribute in 2014 could be the difference between winning a title and losing in the AFC championship team.

This is pretty much right on. Listening to the hub Matt Chatham has to be the biggest head up you know what homer I've ever heard. Great analyst but when he denies he's a homer, don't pay attention. The attitude shown during free agency, making some legitimate aggressive moves, was completely forgotten during the draft. Basically ZERO yes zilch players for rounds 1. 2. and 3. NADA. Maybe a player in Garafalo, but a backup now, maybe a player in Easly, don't know, he's hurt at the

moment. While other teams strive to make 3 good to great picks.... This is where I will get personal!! lol This Patriot Way everyone speaks of, could be called the LOSERS way. Ten years ago is not 2014. AFC or Super Bowl runner-ups are LOSERS. IMO Bellichick is the type on man that has little to no ability at self-reflection, or lacks self-awareness. A man like that, if unchecked, can be rowing but his oars will be out of the water. When you tell him so... "We're doing what's best for the team, BLAH BLAH BLAH. A type like Bellichick needs a GM and owner who have some balls and they are NOT THERE> They could be the toughest business men near Boston but not so football wise. I think way too many Pats fans have their heads up their butts and are living of of yesteryear. This is not a one time thing, they have blown almost countless opportunities to get studs in the draft. Chatham says the QB makes the receiver...? How is it that Dobson and Thompkins (and Boyce) sucked so hard the first 8 games or so last year? Talent is talent, even at the wr position. When the playoffs rolled around and better corners covered Edelman, it was over, 5"9" is not tall enough. Hernandez was in jail, Gronk hurt and their answer was Hoomanawanuii?? I don;t think so. Signing Austin Collie 5 times..? No. What they've done is a terrible job at surrounding Tom Brady, YOUR BEST PLAYERE, with the right talent. "boston" is right, the difference is not a huge one to get a darn good team over the top, but it's friggin mindblowing they don't see their nose in front of their face. I'm getting totally fed up with Bellichick and his arrogant unchecked BS! What does Robert Kraft or Jonathan do anyways? He sucks! The Jets get JAce Amaro, lol. He's a piece for them, but he could've been THE PIECE for the Pats. I like the Pats better on D , good job there, credit due. They should be good, but let's get stupid loaded on offense- in todays NFL, you have to punch it in when in the red zone and rack up the points, period.

Oh wait, Chatham says LaFell is going to do a lot of what the TE does... lol. Who has confidence everything is going to be hunky dory with Gronkowski? I know I don't. We better hope LaFell and Dobson discover hidden talents, Ridley doesn't fumble, Hoomanawanuii gets faster, Brady finds the fountain of youth, etc etc....

I live in western MA and if anyone knows the Krafts tell them you know someone who could draft about a zillion times better.... just give me seasons tickets and all the lobster I can eat. Oh wait!! It's too late!

Edited by AngryPatriot
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It will be at least two years before anyone knows how well this draft turned out but I know not to put much stock into what Kiper, McShay or any of the other so called experts say in the immediate aftermath. There are all wrong more than they are right which makes the strong armchair analysis we are receiving in here from

Sully in Southie, Joey in the North End and Hayseed from Holyoke all the more laughable.

The Pats and BB have whiffed on plenty of picks

over the years and I'm sure have done so this weekend. Same could be said for every team in the league. Questioning them not picking a TE seems reasonable although it wasn't a deep TE draft. Pretty sure there are other ways to pick up players beyond the draft so save the criticism until you see their opening day roster.

Seems like they picked up a lot of potential for both sides of the line and added a RB who should be able to help right away. They swung for the fences with their first pick and I like that approach. The bottom line is next season's success will be a lot more about the development of the players they drafted in 2012 & 2013 than this past weekend regardless of who they would have picked.

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It will be at least two years before anyone knows how well this draft turned out but I know not to put much stock into what Kiper, McShay or any of the other so called experts say in the immediate aftermath.

Who cares about Kiper and McShay? They don't know nothing. Look no further than this forum for all your answers.

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Serious question: can someone please explain to me Garropolo pick? I just can't understand it. Tom Brady is here for 4 more years barring injury. You could have drafted a number of positions in the second round that could help the team over the this year and the next 5. Instead you groom Brady's replacement 4 years from now? And then just so he can become a free agent right around the time Brady retires? I don't get it.

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Serious question: can someone please explain to me Garropolo pick? I just can't understand it. Tom Brady is here for 4 more years barring injury. You could have drafted a number of positions in the second round that could help the team over the this year and the next 5. Instead you groom Brady's replacement 4 years from now? And then just so he can become a free agent right around the time Brady retires? I don't get it.

You can't bank on Brady for 4 more years.

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Can you bank on any player four years from now in the nfl? Brady is in great shape. Is a fierce competitor. And the way the league is protecting QBs, he is as safe as any player out there. They must love Garropolo.

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Can you bank on any player four years from now in the nfl? Brady is in great shape. Is a fierce competitor. And the way the league is protecting QBs, he is as safe as any player out there. They must love Garropolo.

A back-up qb is a pretty valuable commodity. Mallett will leave sometime soon.

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Serious question: can someone please explain to me Garropolo pick? I just can't understand it. Tom Brady is here for 4 more years barring injury. You could have drafted a number of

positions in the second round that could help the team over the this year and the next 5. Instead you groom Brady's replacement 4 years from now? And then just so he can become a free

agent right around the time Brady retires? I don't get it.

They Pats were absolutely drafting a QB this year since Mallet only has one more season with them. They obviously had Garoppolo rated higher than Savage or anyone else on the board. Additionally, they most likely had a group of player graded out in the same range and determined they could get a couple in that group in the 4th round while snagging a QB they really liked in the 2nd as opposed to drafting one they are only so so on in the 4th.

If you are going to overdraft on any one position, I would think QB is the position. I personally think Brady only has two years left of being a top 10 QB and that is if he stays healthy. If Garoppolo is who they think he is, two years as an understudy should prepare him to potentially step in depending on the situation. I would imagine that they will look to draft another QB again next year if Mallet walks.

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Exactly how many starting positions are up for grabs? Easley was their first pick and he will be a rotational player this year. The idea that they reduce their chance of winning next year by drafting a QB for the future as opposed to a depth pick doesn't hold much water.

Disagree...this team is real close...they have one of the best QBs of all time with a closing window...during this window who their backup is doesn't really matter...if Brady goes down they aren't winning it regardless of who the backup is...adding another TE, or Safety or pass-rusher helps them far more than a player who has zero chance of seeing the field next year if Brady stays healthy...especially if they hit on that pick and get another Gronk, Hernandez, Volmer, Samuel, Ridley, Collins or Logan Ryan (i.e. a kid who can contribute in year one who they got after the first round)...the Pats are right there and adding another player or two that can contribute in 2014 could be the difference between winning a title and losing in the AFC championship team.

This is pretty much right on. Listening to the hub Matt Chatham has to be the biggest head up you know what homer I've ever heard. Great analyst but when he denies he's a homer, don't pay attention. The attitude shown during free agency, making some legitimate aggressive moves, was completely forgotten during the draft. Basically ZERO yes zilch players for rounds 1. 2. and 3. NADA. Maybe a player in Garafalo, but a backup now, maybe a player in Easly, don't know, he's hurt at the

moment. While other teams strive to make 3 good to great picks.... This is where I will get personal!! lol This Patriot Way everyone speaks of, could be called the LOSERS way. Ten years ago is not 2014. AFC or Super Bowl runner-ups are LOSERS. IMO Bellichick is the type on man that has little to no ability at self-reflection, or lacks self-awareness. A man like that, if unchecked, can be rowing but his oars will be out of the water. When you tell him so... "We're doing what's best for the team, BLAH BLAH BLAH. A type like Bellichick needs a GM and owner who have some balls and they are NOT THERE> They could be the toughest business men near Boston but not so football wise. I think way too many Pats fans have their heads up their butts and are living of of yesteryear. This is not a one time thing, they have blown almost countless opportunities to get studs in the draft. Chatham says the QB makes the receiver...? How is it that Dobson and Thompkins (and Boyce) sucked so hard the first 8 games or so last year? Talent is talent, even at the wr position. When the playoffs rolled around and better corners covered Edelman, it was over, 5"9" is not tall enough. Hernandez was in jail, Gronk hurt and their answer was Hoomanawanuii?? I don;t think so. Signing Austin Collie 5 times..? No. What they've done is a terrible job at surrounding Tom Brady, YOUR BEST PLAYERE, with the right talent. "boston" is right, the difference is not a huge one to get a darn good team over the top, but it's friggin mindblowing they don't see their nose in front of their face. I'm getting totally fed up with Bellichick and his arrogant unchecked BS! What does Robert Kraft or Jonathan do anyways? He sucks! The Jets get JAce Amaro, lol. He's a piece for them, but he could've been THE PIECE for the Pats. I like the Pats better on D , good job there, credit due. They should be good, but let's get stupid loaded on offense- in todays NFL, you have to punch it in when in the red zone and rack up the points, period.

Oh wait, Chatham says LaFell is going to do a lot of what the TE does... lol. Who has confidence everything is going to be hunky dory with Gronkowski? I know I don't. We better hope LaFell and Dobson discover hidden talents, Ridley doesn't fumble, Hoomanawanuii gets faster, Brady finds the fountain of youth, etc etc....

I live in western MA and if anyone knows the Krafts tell them you know someone who could draft about a zillion times better.... just give me seasons tickets and all the lobster I can eat. Oh wait!! It's too late!

Do you feel better now? Let it all out, my friend.

I agree - I'd rather have ANY other coach or GM in the league drafting than BB. I mean, at least all of those other teams win superbowla each and every year, amiright?...

Well, at least every other team is in contention for the Super Bowl every year, amiright?...

Well, at least every other team wins their division every year, amiright?...

Listen, I get your and every other fan's frustration, but the grass isn't always greener on the other side. There's a reason why we have been Super Bowl contenders nearly every year for the past decade plus. Is drafting the primary reason? No. Has it perhaps been the weakest component over the past decade plus? A very strong and convincing argument could be made for that. But, if we plucked out any average GM or coach with drafting or evaluatin experience and replace them with BB are we far and away better than we are now? I don't think so.

Additionally, there's really not much we can do now in terms of accurately judging how well this draft was or was not, as we really won't know until another 3 or 5 years.

I'm not harping on you either - I'm a big fan of your posts, but I've been frustrated with these "the sky is falling" reactions.

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After listening to the press conferences BB had, my take is that he has lived through 2008 and learnt that he needs to have a QB that he can rely on if anything happens to TB. He is clear that he does not want a team with a 1-15 record if that happens, and feels good to have won 11 games with Cassel. I guess that is how he rolls, and respect that.

He says it is better to be early than late. Thus, at the end of this year he will have a QB who will likely leave, and another QB who, from all I can read about him, feels blessed to be in this spot. Also, his contract will stay cheap for a long time. Perhaps, that is why they have not chased after Hoyer or Cassel, since it might have created some wrinkles in cap management.

I will not pass judgement on if he did the right thing, but I think I get it.

I also think this kid will stay in that film room on his off-days though he would be slotted as third string.

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I'm ok.... a little confused... sleep helps...

If Easley gets healthy= beast. If Garrapolo turns out to be the man= great. Brady WILL RETIRE, sooner than we think/feel. Maybe Gronk is progressing well in his rehab, they obviously checked Easley's knees etc. They might make a move or 2 before camp. Will Smith could be great again. Brady > LaFell, could happen. I suspect Amendola will have a bigger role, that shouldn't be too hard. And yes, the Pats have a lot of luxury problems in overall NFL context. I like that they got some interior beef to protect Brady. There's a possibility that Dustin Keller will be signed, I have a feeling. Man, I loved that 2 TE set with Gronk and Hernandez, it seemed about unstoppable but I'm guilty of my own criticism: those days are over.

ANyone know anything about this RB, White? I heard recently that Vereen was still not 100%, seems like a slow healer.

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I like the draft except for the Carappolo pick. Long term it may turn out to be a very good pick, but he is not a guy that will help the team in any fashion this year or next and for that reason I think it sux big time. RB, WR, TE, Dline, Oline, DB would have been fine, but qb, why so he can sit on the fn bench for 3 years? I expected them to take a qb in the 4th or later which would hav ebeen fine. The 2nf rd qb pick BLOWS afaic.

Easley = high risk high reward and I am ok with a swing for the fences pick.

Center = absolute need and I was hoping they would take one early.

Guard, tackle = all for it, can never have too many quality players.

RB = absolute need and White looks like a decent pick.

WR = whats not to love with taking Gallon in the 7th round? Waldman loves him and hopefully he can help them immediately in the KR department where it is sorely needed.

Edited by NE_REVIVAL
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Serious question: can someone please explain to me Garropolo pick? I just can't understand it. Tom Brady is here for 4 more years barring injury. You could have drafted a number of positions in the second round that could help the team over the this year and the next 5. Instead you groom Brady's replacement 4 years from now? And then just so he can become a free agent right around the time Brady retires? I don't get it.

I'll let belichick explain it to you

http://www.patriots.com/media-cente...our-team/e7b0f307-5212-4446-987c-c507664c4736

Near the end of the press conference Reiss asks BB about the need to have a solid backup QB and BB responds, "I don't think we'd put together a team the way Indianapolis did it, then they lose Manning and go 1-15. That's not what we're looking for. In 2008 when we lost Tom, we had a player who could step in and we won 11 games. We want to be competitive even if something happens to a player at any position. I don't think we'd be happy going 1-15 if we had an injury at one position. Other people have different philosophies."

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I have never seen this many people complain about a teams draft when the consistently compete for a Super Bowl. You would think we are talking about the Jags, Lions or Browns.

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I have never seen this many people complain about a teams draft when the consistently compete for a Super Bowl. You would think we are talking about the Jags, Lions or Browns.

People love to take shots at the great teams. It's always been this way.

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the team is very close (or could be??) ie:

- small decisions can turn out to be key moves, a single player could push them over the top.

- Brady is entering the sunset of his career

They were crushed by the Broncos who in turn were crushed by the Seahawks...

Edited by AngryPatriot
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the team is very close (or could be??) ie:

- small decisions can turn out to be key moves, a single player could push them over the top.

- Brady is entering the sunset of his career

They were crushed by the Broncos who in turn were crushed by the Seahawks...

And they crushed the Colts. Revis was a big immediate move. Some of the draft moves were longer term. I can understand being disappointed with certain moves. Believing every draft is a nightmare takes it too far. You don't consistently win 12+ games with extremely poor drafting.
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the team is very close (or could be??) ie:

- small decisions can turn out to be key moves, a single player could push them over the top.

- Brady is entering the sunset of his career

They were crushed by the Broncos who in turn were crushed by the Seahawks...

And they crushed the Colts. Revis was a big immediate move. Some of the draft moves were longer term. I can understand being disappointed with certain moves. Believing every draft is a nightmare takes it too far. You don't consistently win 12+ games with extremely poor drafting.

Not true. BB is a genius who wins despite extremely poor drafting. It's cool. I've accepted it.

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I know Patriots fans want to measure themselves against the Broncos, especially when the Patriots team that got crushed by the Broncos last year was facing a Broncos team that will be getting some guys back from key injuries, and has added some legitimate studs since last year. But by the time they next meet, the Patriots may effectively have added Wilfork, Kelly, Mayo, Revis, Browner, Gronkowski, and Vollmer. Most teams would be elated to add any two of those guys in an offesason. And they also get Cannon, Dobson, and a slew of other good players, too. Add Easley to the mix, and maybe some of the later round picks, and this team hasn't just improved its starting lineup, they actually have some depth for the first time in a while.

And remember that despite shooting themselves in the foot repeatedly during the first half of that game against the Broncos last year, they came back and won it despite having several of the aforementioned injuries and also Vereen. So while they may have lost badly in Denver in the AFCCG, their win in New England last year suggests that the two teams were relatively close last year.

Now factor in that Denver plays the NFC West, and plays in a division that fielded three playoff teams last year, including KC in Andy Reid's second year and San Diego, who was one of the few teams to beat Denver. And they play New England in New England once again. Which means that the Patriots have a legitimate shot to host the AFCCG if the two meet again.

Does that mean that the Patriots didn't need to draft players who can contribute right away? Of course not. But the Giraffealo pick hardly crippled the franchise. It was a good investment in the future. And he may have been more willing to hold a clipboard than Bridgewater, who seemed to feel that he's in the conversation as the number one QB in this class. So it might just have been a better fit. Similarly, the Easley pick had a higher upside than Nix, who slid for reasons we don't yet know. Easley might not be able to handle 50 snaps a game, but he doesn't need to. He's a rotational player that can make the whole defensive line better. That was a huge part of Seattle's defense last year, being able to send waves of well rested quality D linemen at you.

Personally, I think they're fine. I wanted more immediate impact players this year considering how everyone said this draft was so deep with "first round talent", but they used their late first on a guy who was considered top 15 pre injury, and their late second on a QB who was discussed as an early second round talent. That's not bad. Step off the ledge, guys.

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I think Angry Bill's answer is horse #### coach speak. If you wanted a best shot at not tanking a season when your QB1 goes down, you do that by signing a high upside veteran. But again, Angry Bill will always seem to take the situation that offers the most choices, even if the most options don't always lead to the best option or ideal option.

Nope. The option-heavy route trees the Pats scheme with aren't really amenable to picking up a vet off the street when tommy goes down....having a Cassell on hand = best shot.

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the team is very close (or could be??) ie:

- small decisions can turn out to be key moves, a single player could push them over the top.

- Brady is entering the sunset of his career

They were crushed by the Broncos who in turn were crushed by the Seahawks...

You mean the team that beat the Broncos in the regular season when they were some what healthy, and the team that crushed the Colts who beat the Seahawks? Any good team can beat any good team on any day. It also takes a little luck with injuries to win a super bowl and the Patriots have been kind of unlucky lately. You can't plan for everything.

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I agree that the Patriots had some bad luck but so do most teams. Regular season has less weight. I like the Cody Lattimer WR pick by the Broncos, they recognized their best player, Peyton Manning, and added another piece around him. Demaryius Thomas, Welker, Emmanuel Sanders, Lattimer,.... and Julius Thomas TE. Now thats a WR corp that will deal it out. Meanwhile Brady forces every ball Edelmans way. When Gronk came back EVERYTHING went Gronks way for a couple games. You could almost predict an injury! I'm back to the F Bellichick and the Krafts program. They should have STUD wr's for Brady and multiple TE's in the stable and they don't. They just don't and I think there's a very good chance that 5 years from now those of us with a decent football IQ will look back at these last few Brady years and realize the travesty, the colossal mismanagement. The ring was so close but for a variety of reasons they skimped on the one thing that was obviously what they needed: a couple legit WR's, over 6', go up and get the ball guys. Then Edelman and Amendola can do their thing... The Pats were not even in the same universe as the Seahawks last year as far as winning it all. It would've been laughable and pathetic (in my opinion unfair) to watch Brady try to squeeze it into 4" windows to Edelman all day, maybe a couple to Hoomamawanui or Mulligan whatever his name. At least we have one of their chronic loving DB's. I would try him at WR.

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Brady only had so many prime years in him. At some point, the constant trading back, the constant looking for bargains at all cost, the constant setting aside assets for the future, after a while, you have to ask did you max the full potential of Brady's prime? I'm not saying you have to trade up and go for a blue chipper every year or trade next years picks for this year all the time, but every now and then, it would be nice for Angry Bill to just gun for it. Be aggressive. Climb up and get a blue chipper. I've said it for years,spending 235 nickels over the long haul instead of just spending a dollar once at one point, isn't good value. Wouldn't it be nice for once if Angry Bill said, Screw it, then traded a future first to move up and grab a guy like Aaron Donald? Wouldn't it be nice to just go up and grab an impact blue instead of hanging on the perimeter looking for bargains at the end of the first round and all through the 2nd round?

belichick hasn't done any of that?

I can never tell what's legit on this board and what's just trolling.

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I like the draft except for the Carappolo pick. Long term it may turn out to be a very good pick, but he is not a guy that will help the team in any fashion this year or next and for that reason I think it sux big time. RB, WR, TE, Dline, Oline, DB would have been fine, but qb, why so he can sit on the fn bench for 3 years? I expected them to take a qb in the 4th or later which would hav ebeen fine. The 2nf rd qb pick BLOWS afaic.

Easley = high risk high reward and I am ok with a swing for the fences pick.

Center = absolute need and I was hoping they would take one early.

Guard, tackle = all for it, can never have too many quality players.

RB = absolute need and White looks like a decent pick.

WR = whats not to love with taking Gallon in the 7th round? Waldman loves him and hopefully he can help them immediately in the KR department where it is sorely needed.

Agree with this...I really don't like the QB pick (and at this point you either do or don't) but I like everything else they did...they really beefed up in some key areas and if some of these picks hit a deep team just got a lot deeper...I think adding bodies to the O line was important with a new O line Coach...there's not many coaches like Dante who can grab a guy from nowhere and coach him up the way he did so it was important that they added more talent there...as for the other picks each one makes a ton of sense...you never know what player will pan out but from a team-building aspect they are all smart selections...

Right now there is still two areas to address...TE...gotta have someone that is a legit threat...you can not have a situation like last year where Gronk got hurt and they basically were invisible with regard to the TE in the passing game...the other area is LB depth...need to add another quality LB or two to the mix here...on paper this is probably their thinnest unit on the team right now...

Overall (on paper) the Pats have a had a very strong offseason...they should be a better team than they were in 2013...

Edited by Boston
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I really don't like the QB pick (and at this point you either do or don't)

I usually like how you ration your thoughts and like reading them. So, I will make an attempt on why I like the pick.

Dollars: Unless I am mistaken there is about $7.8 million left on the cap this year, and it will take about $5.2 million to sign them rookies according to overthecap.com I shall just take their word for it and deduct that Pats would have had about $2.5 million to work with at the free agent market if they did not draft a QB. 4 QBs went for more than that cap space, That would have left Gabbert, Freeman, Campbell & Kolb if I am not mistaken. Even if we got one, it would have been a very tight cap situation early in May.

Why not 2QBs: Which team on NFL has 2 QBs? Not a single one. If FA not possible, I am for it to add one through the draft. I also share BB's concern on TB going down say in 2015 and the back up QB not to have seasoned. That situation would force an extension for Mallett (not that it would have neccessarily be a bad thing).

Why not Bridgewater? I liked the Easley pick similar to many others.

Why not trade up in the 2nd round? I also like what they did on day 3, and BB would have had to give up a significant portion of that.

Why not wait another round for Garropolo? I have this eerie feeling BB knew what O'Brien was thinking, and so did O'Brien that he would not be there at the end of 3.

Why Garropolo and not say Savage? That is where I am struggling, but perhaps BB was not.

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why steve young when we have montana??

why draft rodgers when favre will play another 20 yrs??

why take russell wilson when we just signed that other guy??

easy explanation - some teams are just dumb.

edit ps

the rookies you sign are replacing somebody else on the roster, so the actual net hit against the cap is usually just a couple million, but the idea isn't to roll into week one at 0 dollars remaining, either.

Edited by Kool-Aid Larry
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Let's go hypothetical. Suppose another decent team has a QB that goes down with a season ending injury and does not have an adequate or proven back up. (There are some candidates out there, maybe ARI, ATL, BAL, CHI, DET, KC, STL, SF). And let's further suppose the Pats go on to trade Mallet for a second round pick. Would that change people's opinion on drafting Garoppolo?

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I really don't like the QB pick (and at this point you either do or don't)

I usually like how you ration your thoughts and like reading them. So, I will make an attempt on why I like the pick.

Dollars: Unless I am mistaken there is about $7.8 million left on the cap this year, and it will take about $5.2 million to sign them rookies according to overthecap.com I shall just take their word for it and deduct that Pats would have had about $2.5 million to work with at the free agent market if they did not draft a QB. 4 QBs went for more than that cap space, That would have left Gabbert, Freeman, Campbell & Kolb if I am not mistaken. Even if we got one, it would have been a very tight cap situation early in May.

Why not 2QBs: Which team on NFL has 2 QBs? Not a single one. If FA not possible, I am for it to add one through the draft. I also share BB's concern on TB going down say in 2015 and the back up QB not to have seasoned. That situation would force an extension for Mallett (not that it would have neccessarily be a bad thing).

Why not Bridgewater? I liked the Easley pick similar to many others.

Why not trade up in the 2nd round? I also like what they did on day 3, and BB would have had to give up a significant portion of that.

Why not wait another round for Garropolo? I have this eerie feeling BB knew what O'Brien was thinking, and so did O'Brien that he would not be there at the end of 3.

Why Garropolo and not say Savage? That is where I am struggling, but perhaps BB was not.

I don't disagree with any of this...there is a good case to make for drafting a QB early...I'm definitely not blind to the logic behind it...that being said I'm in the camp that if Brady retires without winning another title it will really be a missed opportunity...with them being so close and the Brady window shrinking I would simply prefer spending a high-pick on a player that would see the field sooner rather than later...there are no guarantees but second-rounders are picks that should play in some way their rookie year and as far as winning a title in the next two years or so that is more important than a backup QB who may not see anytime for app. three years...long-term the QB pick makes sense but the Pats should be in a mode where they are more concerned about the now...I am not saying you mortgage the entire future but I am saying grabbing a good TE or Linebacker at that spot would most likely get the Pats closer to getting over the hump in the final years of the Brady era than a backup QB...

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I really don't like the QB pick (and at this point you either do or don't)

I usually like how you ration your thoughts and like reading them. So, I will make an attempt on why I like the pick.

Dollars: Unless I am mistaken there is about $7.8 million left on the cap this year, and it will take about $5.2 million to sign them rookies according to overthecap.com I shall just take their word for it and deduct that Pats would have had about $2.5 million to work with at the free agent market if they did not draft a QB. 4 QBs went for more than that cap space, That would have left Gabbert, Freeman, Campbell & Kolb if I am not mistaken. Even if we got one, it would have been a very tight cap situation early in May.

Why not 2QBs: Which team on NFL has 2 QBs? Not a single one. If FA not possible, I am for it to add one through the draft. I also share BB's concern on TB going down say in 2015 and the back up QB not to have seasoned. That situation would force an extension for Mallett (not that it would have neccessarily be a bad thing).

Why not Bridgewater? I liked the Easley pick similar to many others.

Why not trade up in the 2nd round? I also like what they did on day 3, and BB would have had to give up a significant portion of that.

Why not wait another round for Garropolo? I have this eerie feeling BB knew what O'Brien was thinking, and so did O'Brien that he would not be there at the end of 3.

Why Garropolo and not say Savage? That is where I am struggling, but perhaps BB was not.

I don't disagree with any of this...there is a good case to make for drafting a QB early...I'm definitely not blind to the logic behind it...that being said I'm in the camp that if Brady retires without winning another title it will really be a missed opportunity...with them being so close and the Brady window shrinking I would simply prefer spending a high-pick on a player that would see the field sooner rather than later...there are no guarantees but second-rounders are picks that should play in some way their rookie year and as far as winning a title in the next two years or so that is more important than a backup QB who may not see anytime for app. three years...long-term the QB pick makes sense but the Pats should be in a mode where they are more concerned about the now...I am not saying you mortgage the entire future but I am saying grabbing a good TE or Linebacker at that spot would most likely get the Pats closer to getting over the hump in the final years of the Brady era than a backup QB...

yeah , people have been saying all that for the last 5 yrs

I'm not convinced

chad jackson

terrence wheatley

ron brace

darius butler

patrick chung - nvm, we already got him

jermaine cunningham

ras ir dowling

or tavon wilson

will be carrying us to the promised land

I would rather not be one of those teams described as being "only a qb away from contending"

how many games did you expect cassell to play in 2008?

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I really don't like the QB pick (and at this point you either do or don't)

I usually like how you ration your thoughts and like reading them. So, I will make an attempt on why I like the pick.

Dollars: Unless I am mistaken there is about $7.8 million left on the cap this year, and it will take about $5.2 million to sign them rookies according to overthecap.com I shall just take their word for it and deduct that Pats would have had about $2.5 million to work with at the free agent market if they did not draft a QB. 4 QBs went for more than that cap space, That would have left Gabbert, Freeman, Campbell & Kolb if I am not mistaken. Even if we got one, it would have been a very tight cap situation early in May.

Why not 2QBs: Which team on NFL has 2 QBs? Not a single one. If FA not possible, I am for it to add one through the draft. I also share BB's concern on TB going down say in 2015 and the back up QB not to have seasoned. That situation would force an extension for Mallett (not that it would have neccessarily be a bad thing).

Why not Bridgewater? I liked the Easley pick similar to many others.

Why not trade up in the 2nd round? I also like what they did on day 3, and BB would have had to give up a significant portion of that.

Why not wait another round for Garropolo? I have this eerie feeling BB knew what O'Brien was thinking, and so did O'Brien that he would not be there at the end of 3.

Why Garropolo and not say Savage? That is where I am struggling, but perhaps BB was not.

I don't disagree with any of this...there is a good case to make for drafting a QB early...I'm definitely not blind to the logic behind it...that being said I'm in the camp that if Brady retires without winning another title it will really be a missed opportunity...with them being so close and the Brady window shrinking I would simply prefer spending a high-pick on a player that would see the field sooner rather than later...there are no guarantees but second-rounders are picks that should play in some way their rookie year and as far as winning a title in the next two years or so that is more important than a backup QB who may not see anytime for app. three years...long-term the QB pick makes sense but the Pats should be in a mode where they are more concerned about the now...I am not saying you mortgage the entire future but I am saying grabbing a good TE or Linebacker at that spot would most likely get the Pats closer to getting over the hump in the final years of the Brady era than a backup QB...

yeah , people have been saying all that for the last 5 yrs

I'm not convinced

chad jackson

terrence wheatley

ron brace

darius butler

patrick chung - nvm, we already got him

jermaine cunningham

ras ir dowling

or tavon wilson

will be carrying us to the promised land

I would rather not be one of those teams described as being "only a qb away from contending"

how many games did you expect cassell to play in 2008?

Ok...I'm sure a drafting history that includes Rohan Davy, Kevin O'Connell and Ryan Mallet mean that Jimmy G. will definitely be an All Pro in four years...

Regardless of the draft slot there are examples of boom and bust picks at every position...that is not my issue...my issue is that the Pats are at a point where a few plays during the course of the season can mean the difference between a home or away playoff game or winning a close game in January or losing that game...I would simply rather use that pick on someone who can potentially help win now rather than 2018...due to Brady's age the Pats are in a unique situation...much more urgent than normal and I have zero issues going thru a few years of rebuilding if it means winning another title now...

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I have a huge issue going through a few years of rebuilding, and from beli's quote about the colts it seems he does, too.

what I find a little irritating is all the whining and negativity based off nothing more than imagined fantasies confused with reality.

banking on another 2nd round player to jump into a meaningful role and make the difference is fantasy.

assuming garafolo, or garrapolo, or whoever, isn't the guy that makes that difference by winning that one game that gets brady into the playoffs, or gets that home field, or whatever, is based entirely on a crystal ball up your ###.

ask the bears if a back up qb is worthless --- ask the colts.

this 'unique' situation you're talking about has apparently been ongoing for the last 5 yrs, and if belichick took your advice 5 yrs ago we could be right in the middle of that aforementioned rebuilding period rather than contending for a title in brady's twilight years.

edit ps

what have you got against ryan mallet?

Edited by Kool-Aid Larry
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I don't disagree with any of this...there is a good case to make for drafting a QB early...I'm definitely not blind to the logic behind it...that being said I'm in the camp that if Brady retires without winning another title...

Agreed

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No one is "banking" on anything... but there's a better chance you could be significantly helped by a 2nd rd. pick WHO IS NOT SLATED TO BE A BACKUP FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS. Get Beli's rebuilding fear whispering head out of your butt and live now! The goal is winning the Super Bowl.

Throwing out Hooman as your starting TE, as it is right now, is a load of crap. that area needs rebuilding yesterday.

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No one is "banking" on anything... but there's a better chance you could be significantly helped by a 2nd rd. pick WHO IS NOT SLATED TO BE A BACKUP FOR ABOUT 3 YEARS. Get Beli's rebuilding fear whispering head out of your butt and live now! The goal is winning the Super Bowl.

Throwing out Hooman as your starting TE, as it is right now, is a load of crap. that area needs rebuilding yesterday.

fyi - it's may, the team building is not done.

there are a lot of ####ty teams out there who got that way by yolo'ing their drafts, and banking on rookies to plug every hole.

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I hope you're right. The Pats have a couple weaknesses or gaps and they could've addressed those, or hopefully they will. ESPN dudes all think San Fran knocked it out of the park, took all 12 picks wisely. Time will tell but it's in stark contrast to getting a backup QB and trading out of the 3rd.

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I hope you're right. The Pats have a couple weaknesses or gaps and they could've addressed those, or hopefully they will. ESPN dudes all think San Fran knocked it out of the park, took all 12 picks wisely. Time will tell but it's in stark contrast to getting a backup QB and trading out of the 3rd.

As far as I am concerned, the only way to judge all the teams is the day before the season starts. There is roughly 4 months until then. There are still free agents to sign, trades that could be made, guys that could play larger/different roles, etc. The bottom line is you can't spend $10 million a year at every position, you can't sign every free agent, you can't draft the best prospect at every position, and you can't second guess every personnel decision by the coaching staff and management. They could easily have drafted players to fill slots and supposed weaknesses. But if they bombed on those picks (like they have at DB and WR), then how would that have helped? If Easley comes in at close to 100% and turns in the next Richard Seymour, then they look like geniuses.

Could the Pats have made different decisions over the years? Certainly. Had they made different choices AND they worked out, then MAYBE they could have won another title. But things happen . . . sometimes for better, sometimes for worse. Is BB to blame for AH getting sent up the river and Gronk sustaining multiple injuries? If people want to argue that their TE corps AT THIS JUNCTURE is weak, I won't refute that. But let's see how things look in September. As it is, they won't win or lose a single game for the next four months.

As I mentioned earlier, people think it's so easy to win a SB . . . or people are just so spoiled that the Pats are always in the mix that if they don't win they automatically had a bad season or failed. My biggest pet peeve with BB is leaving guys in too long in games that are already decided and not giving non-starters or younger plays more live game reps. That way, they may have had more bullets to use later in the season or in the playoffs if guys got their feet wet. But Bill has usually left guys in until the last possession of games in garbage time so a lot of developmental guys mostly cut their teeth only in practice. As important as practice is, it's still not the same as live game conditions.

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I hear a lot about how weak our te position is, and how egregious it was to leave this big gaping hole in our roster, but when gronk comes back healthy, and HE WILL BE BACK HEALTHY, we will be rolling the best te in football out there every week.

I can think of a few other teams that wish they had that problem.

Edited by Kool-Aid Larry
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I hear a lot about how weak our te position is, and how egregious it was to leave this big gaping hole in our roster, but when gronk comes back healthy, and HE WILL BE BACK HEALTHY, we will be rolling the best te in football out there every week.

I can think of a few other teams that wish they had that problem.

HOW DARE YOU!!! We should have drafted at least 4 tight ends because Brady's window is closing and we all know how well rookie tight ends do. God forbid Bellichek and the rest of his drafting team make decisions based for the best of the team going forward not just because one players window is closing. There is a reason why the Colts go 1 - 15 when they lose Manning and the Patriots were still respectable at 11 - 5 without Brady. Assuming Bellichek stays on, we get to enjoy football after Brady leaves while the Denver will be looking forward to the draft every year for 2 to 4 years after Manning hangs them up. Had Luck not been everything he was hyped up to be and more the Colts would still be drafting in the top 10. How often can you bank on getting one of the best quarterback prospects ever to replace one of the best quarterbacks ever? I doubt it happens very often.

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I hear a lot about how weak our te position is, and how egregious it was to leave this big gaping hole in our roster, but when gronk comes back healthy, and HE WILL BE BACK HEALTHY, we will be rolling the best te in football out there every week.

I can think of a few other teams that wish they had that problem.

I may be in the minority, but I theorize that all the injuries and surgeries will have a negative impact on Gronk's abilities and his career longevity. So I suspect his skills will start (continue?) to deteriorate and we very well could have seen the last of Gronk being 100%. Now I will admit that Gronk at 85% is still way better than almost all TEs in the league, but I'm not sure Gronk will have a 15 year NFL career. Also, I am not sure if the Pats will try 100% to retain and pay him what he may be worth, so that may also become an issue downstream. I certainly would love to be wrong on both counts (health and contract).

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Tom Brady will be 37 this season. Several QBs who had nice careers were done by age 37 or earlier. Bradshaw was done at 34. Joe Montana's last strong season was at age 34. Jim Kelly's last good year was at age 35. Steve McNair was done at age 33. McNabb was done at age 33.

The Patriots need to be ready. One day, Brady will get up and simply not be able to go anymore. Or maybe he will be able to go, but keep getting nagging injuries that are slow to heal like older players get.

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Tom Brady will be 37 this season. Several QBs who had nice careers were done by age 37 or earlier. Bradshaw was done at 34. Joe Montana's last strong season was at age 34. Jim Kelly's last good year was at age 35. Steve McNair was done at age 33. McNabb was done at age 33.

The Patriots need to be ready. One day, Brady will get up and simply not be able to go anymore. Or maybe he will be able to go, but keep getting nagging injuries that are slow to heal like older players get.

warren moon threw for his 5th best yardage total at 41

manning just smashed nfl records at 37

testaverde was still in the league at 44

favre threw for 4200 yds + 33 td at 40

and joe montana, as previously mentioned, actually managed 3300 yds in only 14 games his final year at 38

now compare this pasty specimen

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/Football+legend+Joe+Montana+cools+off+sea+p2S2sllISo9l.jpg

to this sexy beast

http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/images/thumb/5/57/Tawm.jpg/501px-Tawm.jpg

I'm not just trying to argue the fact that brady's on the tail end, but I don't see any reason to throw dirt on him prematurely, and I think we can at least enjoy the next couple years before we have to worry about finding a replacement for him and gronk.

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Tom Brady will be 37 this season. Several QBs who had nice careers were done by age 37 or earlier. Bradshaw was done at 34. Joe Montana's last strong season was at age 34. Jim Kelly's last good year was at age 35. Steve McNair was done at age 33. McNabb was done at age 33.

The Patriots need to be ready. One day, Brady will get up and simply not be able to go anymore. Or maybe he will be able to go, but keep getting nagging injuries that are slow to heal like older players get.

warren moon threw for his 5th best yardage total at 41

manning just smashed nfl records at 37

testaverde was still in the league at 44

favre threw for 4200 yds + 33 td at 40

and joe montana, as previously mentioned, actually managed 3300 yds in only 14 games his final year at 38

now compare this pasty specimen

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/Football+legend+Joe+Montana+cools+off+sea+p2S2sllISo9l.jpg

to this sexy beast

http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/images/thumb/5/57/Tawm.jpg/501px-Tawm.jpg

I'm not just trying to argue the fact that brady's on the tail end, but I don't see any reason to throw dirt on him prematurely, and I think we can at least enjoy the next couple years before we have to worry about finding a replacement for him and gronk.

You have gone pretty damn extreme around here lately. :shrug:

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