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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (8 Viewers)

That didn't shock me as much as not drafting anyone to sure up their gaping holes at LB and DE until the 5th round.

I still can't get that taste out of my mouth from the SB. They just couldn't get one more stop during that 4th qtr.

Taking a RB? ... and trading out of the 2nd and 3rd rounds when surely there were warm bodies available that would be better than what's on their roster now at DE / LB.

Can't help but think there would be a new banner in Foxboro this year if Chandler Jones and his 17 sacks was still on the team.

The Pats lack of QB pressure will continue to make QB's like Blake Bortles and Nick Foles look like the next Dan Marino.

Weak defense but superb aging QB ...  he can't run but rocket arm and pin point accuracy ... should be able to out-gun most opponents.

Welcome to this years version of the 2006 Colts. 
I've heard the arguments over the years if NE had just kept Law. Or Seymour. Or Samuel. Or Moss. Or Welker. Or Revis. Or Mankins. Or Jones. Or Collins. Or Solder. Or whomever.

The fact of the matter is NE couldn't afford to keep these guys or they would have had zero depth. In the case of Jones, NE didn't use him like Arizona does, so it's unlikely he would have made a huge impact (if they didn't let him loose to just attack the QB). BB has made it clear that generating a pass rush is not a top priority and he would much rather force opponents to produce sustained drives and hope they make a mistake rather than forcing the issue to avoid giving up big plays.

It's easy to criticize when you aren't the one writing the checks. The plan for years has been be good enough to make a deep playoff run and hope for the best.Clearly they have been better at that than anyone else for years now, so it's hard to slam them for not winning more titles. Even with a mediocre roster, a ton of injuries, and no pass rush they beat JAX and almost beat PHI. Or would you rather they swapped their 2014 and 2016 titles for ones in 2011 and 2012 instead. (I am suggesting that maybe they went all in sooner and mortgaged future success to win in those years but had a much worse team later on.)

 
:lol:

Ian Rapoport‏Verified account @RapSheet 38m38 minutes ago

#Patriots coach Bill Belichick was asked by reporters about the absence of QB Tom Brady: “I’m not going to talk about the guys that are not here.”

 
Ok Pat fans. No thread created yet but I noticed in the July dynasty value chart FBG has a mention of Danny Etling in the WW target section

Thoughts on this guy? I'd start a thread but I wasn't sure if there was much to talk about him since he seems destined for the practice squad and to be out-drafted next year with one of NE's 6 picks in rounds 1-3. 

 
Caught some of the discussion on the radio about players that have left the Pats within the past two years. What they have commanded elsewhere is staggering. Guys that left after 2016 or later:

Jimmy G. - 5 years, $137.5M
CJones - 5 years, $82.5M
Cooks - 5 years, $80M
Solder - 4 years, $62M
Butler - 5 years, $61M
Collins - 4 years, $50M
Ryan - 3 years, $30M
Sheard 3 years, $25.5M
Lewis - 4 years, $20M
Amendola 2 years, $12M
Mingo - 3 years, $9.3M
Marsh - 2 years, $7.7M
Bademosi - 2 years, $6.25M
Long - 2 years, $4.5M
Garcia - 4 years - $3.3M
Blount - 2 years, $3.25M
Fleming - 1 year, $2.5M
Floyd - 1 year, $1.4MM
AJohnson - 2 years, $1.3M
Freeny - 1 year, $880K

Collectively, these players signed or got extended elsewhere for a combined $600M. (Yes, I am aware that they may never collect all that, but I was too lasy to calculate the guaranteed money from all those contracts.). The last 10 players on the list add up to only $40 million. The first 10 guys on the list add up to a whopping $560 million!

 
J Matthews gets no respect. FBG's has him behind C Patterson and MFL doesn't
have him listed on their depth chart grid. I do have J Matthews on a dynasty team
so a maybe a little bias here.

C Patterson? K Britt? P Stinkin Dorsett? Really? M Mitchell might not be ready for
the start of the season. The crazy thing is in MFL10's, J Edelmen gets drafted and 
no other WR gets targeted.

C Hogans ceiling could be J Matthews floor.
 

 
Britt is the shark play here. Starting camp on PUP but he can be had for less than nothing and is going to end up beginning the year as a starter. NE has had a yearning for him since he was eligible for the draft  

Matthews may do ok, but he is new to the system and Brady hasn’t been around all preseason to throw to him. NE really didn’t invest much to get him and I am not sure they are convinced he’s fully healthy. I want to see how he looks in camp before I can give a more informed opinion. I would guess the closer we get to openbig day the more his price tag will go up. 

 
Britt is the shark play here. Starting camp on PUP but he can be had for less than nothing and is going to end up beginning the year as a starter. NE has had a yearning for him since he was eligible for the draft  

Matthews may do ok, but he is new to the system and Brady hasn’t been around all preseason to throw to him. NE really didn’t invest much to get him and I am not sure they are convinced he’s fully healthy. I want to see how he looks in camp before I can give a more informed opinion. I would guess the closer we get to openbig day the more his price tag will go up. 
:goodposting:

 
Britt is the shark play here. Starting camp on PUP but he can be had for less than nothing and is going to end up beginning the year as a starter. NE has had a yearning for him since he was eligible for the draft  

Matthews may do ok, but he is new to the system and Brady hasn’t been around all preseason to throw to him. NE really didn’t invest much to get him and I am not sure they are convinced he’s fully healthy. I want to see how he looks in camp before I can give a more informed opinion. I would guess the closer we get to openbig day the more his price tag will go up. 
K Britt's and J Matthews base salary's are almost the same. The difference is K Britt
has a $450,000 roster/workout bonus. We have no idea who the starter is after C Hogan.
C Patterson makes the team as a returner, After that it's all a best guess.  

 
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I'll agree to disagree and not clutter the thread. I believe the 3rd receiving option will
be fantasy relevant -not just season totals but  a WR3 you start. The question is will
one of these guys surpass C Hogan. Past stats for these WR's is meaningless.
It's a clean slate. Both Matthews and Brit are 6'3" and Hogan is 6'1" but plays bigger.
 

 
Is this the year Brady shows his age?  Everyone seems to think he's going to play several more years at an elite level.  I've been a buyer for a long time but I think this is the year I get off the Patriot bandwagon.  At some point "it' is just going to be gone and he won't be able to play anymore. In the NFL, especially for QBs, the ending comes quick.

This seems like the perfect time for it to happen. It's always when nobody expects.  They're coming off a great year by going to the Super Bowl.  But he's 41 and mother nature is undefeated.  

Call me crazy but I'm avoiding all Pat's players this year.

 
I'll agree to disagree and not clutter the thread. I believe the 3rd receiving option will
be fantasy relevant -not just season totals but  a WR3 you start. The question is will
one of these guys surpass C Hogan. Past stats for these WR's is meaningless.
It's a clean slate. Both Matthews and Brit are 6'3" and Hogan is 6'1" but plays bigger.
 
Not knocking any of the WRs. Think they are all decent NFL caliber guys. And if you are saying Britt or Matthews will be in the 24-36 range - so a 2017 Ted Ginn or Jermain Kearse season - sure, that's very possible. But I'd argue Dorsett has just as good of a chance. So it's a three-sided coin.  

Just saying I wouldn't roster anyone outside of Edelman and Hogan. Maybe monitor things and see if it's clear that someone will get looks when Edelman is out, but those surprise spot starters are least valuable early in the season.

 
I think Matthews is the play and Brit will be on the bubble again. Ask yourself who the better slot receiver is and Britt should never be in the equation.

 
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Sony Michel and Burkhead will eat in James Whites targets. Both are more multi dimensional and will keep defenses guessing . I may be off in my James White assessment, but he didn’t look like the Super Bowl Atlanta last year. He simply doesn’t run effective. Bill is good friends with Payton. I can see where Hill=Ingram and Kamara=Michel.

 
I think Matthews is the play and Brit will be on the bubble again. Ask yourself who the better slot receiver is and Britt should never be in the equation.
NE lost their outside guy in Cooks. NE most likely lost their young outside guy in Mitchell. They also lost Amendola, who was a blend of outside and slot. Britt is an outside guy. Matthews is a slot guy almost exclusively. Matthews and Britt are not competing against each other. Matthews is most likely competing with Edelman. As far as I can tell, Dorsett and Patterson haven't shown much on two teams. I would guess Mitchell is cut with an injury settlement and Dorsett gets cut, perhaps after JE11 comes back. Certainly Britt is no lock to make the team or be productive (or stay healthy), but he may be able to put up a Lloyd / LaFell / Branch (the second time around) type season.

As for folks saying Edelman is the guy to own, the issue is he is going to miss a 1/4 of the season. His current ADP in PPR leagues is WR28. Last year, the #28 WR scored 176 fantasy points. (He just went 28th one of my drafts in a 0 PPR league.)

Edelman played all 16 games in 2016 and scored 232 fantasy points in PPR leagues. If he scored fantasy points at the same rate, that would mean he would score 174 points in 12 games. Clearly 174 points in 12 games trumps 176 points in 16 games. However, how confident are people that Edelman is going to return and produce at the same rate given he is coming back from a torn ACL and is now 32?

Another factor for Week 5 for Edelman may be that the Pats play the Thursday game and he can't be reinstated to practice until the Monday after Week 4. Who knows how much he can do in 3 days after not practicing for a month.

 
Updated WR pecking order according to WEEI . . .

Edelman
Hogan
Mitchell (but on his way out the door)
Britt
Dorsett
Matthews
Patterson
Hollister
Berrios
McCarron
Lucien

That's just one opinion.

LINK

 
What is there to even talk about with your buddies as a Pats fan?

So guys.....do you think we will win or lose the Super Bowl this year?

 
Is this the year Brady shows his age?  Everyone seems to think he's going to play several more years at an elite level.  I've been a buyer for a long time but I think this is the year I get off the Patriot bandwagon.  At some point "it' is just going to be gone and he won't be able to play anymore. In the NFL, especially for QBs, the ending comes quick.

This seems like the perfect time for it to happen. It's always when nobody expects.  They're coming off a great year by going to the Super Bowl.  But he's 41 and mother nature is undefeated.  

Call me crazy but I'm avoiding all Pat's players this year.
One of the things that New England's done well is given Brady a huge variety of targets. While none of them (outside of Gronkowski) may be on say a Antonio Brown or even Brandin Cooks level, cumulatively they can all be very productive.

Edelman and Hogan are proven solid receivers. Jordan Matthews has flashed as a solid Slot WR with potential upside of 60-75 catches and Kenny Britt is a proven big play threat (I can see Britt finishing more in-line with his career around 40-45 catches and 700 or so yards).

Then at TE you have Gronkowski, Allen, and a very under the radar acquisition in Will Tye who can be capable of an H-Back role to compliment James Develin.

That's not going into the RBs ala James White, Burkhead, and potentially Sony Michel.

Normally most QBs I would write off but Brady has enough weapons around him and is so smart intellectually that even if his arm strength fell off, the Patriots would be able to transition a scheme around Brady's abilities and allow more RAC rather than trusting Brady to air the ball out 25-30 yards down the field over and over again. Brady may not challenge say 5,500 yards but I don't think he'd suddenly drop off to like 3,300 yards with a 6.0 YPA either. The last two seasons that Brady dropped below a 7.5 YPA he still completed 4,300 and 4,100 yards.

 
What is there to even talk about with your buddies as a Pats fan?

So guys.....do you think we will win or lose the Super Bowl this year?
So guys, with all of the players lost on defense and as bad as they looked in the SB, ... do you think they can stop anyone on defense this year or will Brady have to throw for 400 yards a game to give them a chance?

 
I think you missed the additions on D as well. I see a better run stopping group.  I think the D will improve over last year actually.

 
I think you missed the additions on D as well. I see a better run stopping group.  I think the D will improve over last year actually.
where can I find a pair of those rose colored glasses?

I assume you're basing this feeling on the acquisition of D.Shelton.

Maybe he does help stuff the run up the middle ... but they improved nowhere else on defense imo.

Better hope Shelton makes the stop since the LB's are jags other than oft injured Hightower.

I'm still miffed they drafted a RB so early and passed on a pass rushing OLB ... (or a stud CB).

One above avg corner in Gilmore. Lost Butler for J.McCourty ...seems a step backwards there.

Pass rush is feeble .... unless Rivers can become something in his second rookie season. I don't think they'll land another James Harrison mid season.

Not sure why NE can't build a defense like they've had in '04. Why "bend but don't break"? ... how about "don't bend".

 
You know it's football season when BB pressers start. Shaugnessey grills Bill on Butler benching. Belichick in mid-season form not answering the same questions like 8 times.

LINK

 
Brady's passing totals from the second halves of his last 3 SB appearances (SEA / ATL / PHI):

60 for 84 (71.4%)
668 yards
8 TDs to 1 INT
1 passing 2 point conversion
121.5 passer rating

To put things in perspective, over a full season, that would project to:

640 completions (NFL record 471 completions)
896 attempts (NFL record 727 attempts)
7125 passing yards (NFL record 5477 passing yards)
85 passing TD (NFL record 55 TD passes)
121.5 passer rating (NFL record 122.5)

 
Hmmm. Dorsett has been playing in the slot / inside pretty exclusively after 2 days and had side sessions both days with TB12, Gronk, Hogan, and James White today.

Matthews got dinged and was down for a while today. Stayed on the field however. Don't really know how they have been using him and/or if they have been mostly running drills and not 7 on 7 or 11 on 11.

 
Hmmm. Dorsett has been playing in the slot / inside pretty exclusively after 2 days and had side sessions both days with TB12, Gronk, Hogan, and James White today.

Matthews got dinged and was down for a while today. Stayed on the field however. Don't really know how they have been using him and/or if they have been mostly running drills and not 7 on 7 or 11 on 11.
Dorsett is on the wire and I'm thinking he could be the early season value play. I really don't like anyone outside Edelman and Hogan but he could be a cheap ticket worth picking up for free and flipping if he starts hot. 

 
Niklas cut...interesting move...not that he got cut but that it happened so quickly...I think people thought he might be in the mix for a lot longer than this...l have read the Hollister looks like he has improved a lot and the Tye kid was somewhat productive his first couple of years in the league and is still only 26...would not be surprised to see them bring in another TE but right now it looks like it maybe Gronk-Allen-Hollister...

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/27/patriots-sign-paul-turner-cut-troy-niklas/

 
referring to Jordan Mathews I assume?

Yeah, that didn't last long. Either it was a bad injury .... or my guess, he showed up out of shape with bad work ethic.
The word is it was a bad hamstring so they decided to move on to someone else (Decker)...

 
The word is it was a bad hamstring so they decided to move on to someone else (Decker)...
In this day and age, with our knowledge of hydration / stretching / massage therapy / and access to personal trainers and the like ...

you would think all these hamstring issues could be avoided. It's these guys careers on the line (for some) and yet they still can't seem to avoid them.

Had to be a pretty severe hamstring for them to throw in the towel on him this quick.  

Guessing they weren't enamored with him either or they might have held on to him until cut downs anyway.

Or maybe there was a bonus in his contract that they avoided by cutting him now.

 
J Matthews gets no respect. FBG's has him behind C Patterson and MFL doesn't
have him listed on their depth chart grid. I do have J Matthews on a dynasty team
so a maybe a little bias here.

C Patterson? K Britt? P Stinkin Dorsett? Really? M Mitchell might not be ready for
the start of the season. The crazy thing is in MFL10's, J Edelmen gets drafted and 
no other WR gets targeted.

C Hogans ceiling could be J Matthews floor.
 
Ouch. 

 
Stuff happens. I'm on the C Carson, D Foreman bandwagon too.
I'm sure former T Rawls and C Michael supporters can relate. 

C Carson for the beginning of the season, D Foreman for the second half.

 
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Hmmm. Dorsett has been playing in the slot / inside pretty exclusively after 2 days and had side sessions both days with TB12, Gronk, Hogan, and James White today.

Matthews got dinged and was down for a while today. Stayed on the field however. Don't really know how they have been using him and/or if they have been mostly running drills and not 7 on 7 or 11 on 11.
I love me some James White in ppr.

I know they drafted a RB in the 1st rd ... but White obviously has the trust of Brady and the coaching staff.

I still see him getting plenty of touches (many thru the air) in NE's RBBC approach.

 
Pats' Sony Michel had procedure done on knee

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots rookie running back Sony Michel underwent a procedure to drain fluid from his knee after leaving Wednesday's practice, and is expected to be sidelined for at least 10 days, according to sources.

While the recovery process could extend beyond 10 days, it is not expected to affect Michel's availability for a significant portion, if any, of the regular season.

Edelman: Return from ACL tear has been a 'grind'

Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman said Friday that he's still trying to get into football shape while recovering from a torn ACL that sidelined him last season.

A source described the draining of the knee as more of a clean-up, referring to it as positive because it helped address some pre-existing issues.

A first-round draft pick out of Georgia (No. 31 overall), Michel left the SEC Championship Game against Auburn in December with a left knee sprain, but returned to play in the team's final two games (Rose Bowl, national championship).

The Patriots plan to pair the 5-foot-11, 215-pound Michel with Rex Burkhead and James White atop their running back depth chart, as they transition without Dion Lewis, who signed as a free agent with the Tennessee Titans this offseason.

On Wednesday's sixth practice of training camp, Michel walked off the field under his own power with head athletic trainer Jim Whalen, first entering the medical tent and then heading to the locker room.

 
Mitchellsaid to be released. 

Decker not a lock to make team. 

Buyer beware on people considering Edelman. By his own admission, he is struggling to get his giddy up back. Those thinking he steps right in and is the old Jules are likely going to be disappointed. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
Mitchellsaid to be released. 

Decker not a lock to make team. 

Buyer beware on people considering Edelman. By his own admission, he is struggling to get his giddy up back. Those thinking he steps right in and is the old Jules are likely going to be disappointed. 
well Edelman does have a couple months

 
Penguin said:
Pats' Sony Michel had procedure done on knee

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. -- New England Patriots rookie running back Sony Michel underwent a procedure to drain fluid from his knee after leaving Wednesday's practice, and is expected to be sidelined for at least 10 days, according to sources.

While the recovery process could extend beyond 10 days, it is not expected to affect Michel's availability for a significant portion, if any, of the regular season.

Edelman: Return from ACL tear has been a 'grind'

Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman said Friday that he's still trying to get into football shape while recovering from a torn ACL that sidelined him last season.

A source described the draining of the knee as more of a clean-up, referring to it as positive because it helped address some pre-existing issues.

A first-round draft pick out of Georgia (No. 31 overall), Michel left the SEC Championship Game against Auburn in December with a left knee sprain, but returned to play in the team's final two games (Rose Bowl, national championship).

The Patriots plan to pair the 5-foot-11, 215-pound Michel with Rex Burkhead and James White atop their running back depth chart, as they transition without Dion Lewis, who signed as a free agent with the Tennessee Titans this offseason.

On Wednesday's sixth practice of training camp, Michel walked off the field under his own power with head athletic trainer Jim Whalen, first entering the medical tent and then heading to the locker room.
Seems there are 2 (or 3) stories mashed together here?

Michel had the knee drained? ... but the sentence is right after the Edleman blurb so now I don't know who it was.

.

I wouldn't be surprised if James White gets the most snaps during the season.

Belichick has failed so many times drafting WR's or RB's. This Michel kid could easily be his latest miss now with a bad knee and a history of knee problems.

and Malcom Mitchel is just another example of a WR drafted that didn't pan out for one reason or the other.

Thankfully Mitchel was only a 4th rd pick ... and they did get some use out of him.

 

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