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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread


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Just now, Ghost Rider said:

Why would the sky be falling?  September is never their best month under Belichick, and they were beaten by a better all-around team. 

I am not saying the sky is falling. But some of the media already is saying this year is different. The squabbling. The porous defense. The injuries. Brady's age. The lack of receivers. The lack of elite talent. "This year just feels different."

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

I am not saying the sky is falling. But some of the media already is saying this year is different. The squabbling. The porous defense. The injuries. Brady's age. The lack of receivers. The lack of elite talent. "This year just feels different."

The media = dopes.

I always assume the Patriots will get it together and be the team to beat in the AFC by the time December rolls around, but the Jags are a legit great team that can overtake them in the AFC.  It's not like they lost to the Redskins or Bills. 

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2 minutes ago, Ghost Rider said:

The media = dopes.

I always assume the Patriots will get it together and be the team to beat in the AFC by the time December rolls around, but the Jags are a legit great team that can overtake them in the AFC.  It's not like they lost to the Redskins or Bills. 

I know that, and you know that, but it doesn't stop the media from trying to pinpoint the start of the fall of the Patriots.

In the Pats' 5 SB winning years, they had ugly double digit losses each season (and in 2014 two of them), losing by an average of 20 points.

But it's clear they don't play anywhere near as well in hot and humid weather.

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4 minutes ago, Snickers said:

Pats came out really flat and still could have been in the game except two key offensive series hurt them. The 16 play, 8 minute drive in the first half where they had to settle for a FG and turning the ball back to Jacksonville right after the INT were killers.

I would go back even earlier. NE missed the long FG  on their first drive and then stopped the Jags short on third down on a pass to Westbrook that would have been a three and out. But Trey Flowers punched the ball out, it bounced right between two NE defenders and into DJ Chark's arms running in stride who took it for a first down. So instead of either a stop at midfield or a turnover taken into Jags territory, the drive continued for a TD. Next possession Cole had the insane circus catch when they needed 15 yards for a first. All that signified to me that it was going to be a long day for NE as things were just not breaking their way.

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I am "sky is falling" guy.

I'm too lazy to find and quote my own posts in here from a month ago to remind everyone my feelings on this defense...

but most here know I've been down on this defense since the Super Bowl. 

The defense played poorly vs JAX in the playoffs last year and I wanted to chalk that up as just one bad game.

but then the SB happened and I realized this is the best they've got. Then in the offseason loss of personnel at defense with no upgrades where they were desperately needed  ... DB and LB.

 

Hightower is another season slower, has he made even one play this year? The other LB's are horrible.

Rowe is a joke. Even the commentators were pointing out the fact that Bortles kept throwing to whomever Rowe was covering. It was automatic.

and that crossing route that JAX ran about 7 times for huge gains and one TD.  Pats coaching had not answer for that.

Clayborne over running and losing contain on his left side pass rush ... very un-patriots like.  Bortles was free as a bird running to his left all game.

 

I've said before that Brady will need to throw for 400 yards to win. They stubbornly tried to establish the run vs JAX and began most drives 2nd and 9 ... and ending in a punt.

Even down by 14 points, they just refused to spread and let Brady do his thing. OK, Blame lack of personnel at WR ... whos fault is that?

and as people in here were defending lack of WR's were saying ... White and Gronk can play a spread offense.

 

Huge sign of desperation that the Pats go get Josh Gordon. Such the opposite of a player they want in their locker room but it's obvious they're not winning with who they have. I don't see this ending well.

 

Teams could have switched uniforms Sunday and I would have the Pats in the SB again because the JAGS played like the old Patriots ... passing to a bunch of different WR's / TE and stuffing the run on defense.

JAGS are better than the Pats at every position group except QB. Heck, you can say the same about CLE being better than the Pats at every group but QB!

Pains me to say it but this is no longer a championship team and it's lack of personnel that has caused their demise. 

 

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I’m the opposite as I took some positives from the game. Michel looked a lot like Lewis in limited snaps. If Gordon busts out they drop 1.5 rounds in the draft to find out. If he works out even as a decoy it was well worth the 5th round pick. Regardless, Edelman is back which will help the offense a great deal. Gilmore looks great while Butler looks horrible after two games. The defense will get better once the coaches have more film on teams. Most of their tough games are at home and I can’t see them losing the division.

Depth is a concern so it will probably come down to how healthy they are come playoff time.

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1 hour ago, Snickers said:

I’m the opposite as I took some positives from the game. Michel looked a lot like Lewis in limited snaps. If Gordon busts out they drop 1.5 rounds in the draft to find out. If he works out even as a decoy it was well worth the 5th round pick. Regardless, Edelman is back which will help the offense a great deal. Gilmore looks great while Butler looks horrible after two games. The defense will get better once the coaches have more film on teams. Most of their tough games are at home and I can’t see them losing the division.

Depth is a concern so it will probably come down to how healthy they are come playoff time.

? To me, Michel looked like Gillislee. He got the yards that were given to him, nothing more, except for maybe one run in garbage time when JAX was up 2 scores, were willing to give the run, where Michel actually made a guy miss.

Take away that one run for 15 yards and he was 9 for 19 .... 2.1 yards per carry. That is not how I'd like to remember Lewis. Oh, and one reception for 7 yards.

The way they were force feeding him the ball was disgusting. OK to keep the defense honest, but at some point you have to go back to what you're good at.

Every time I see Michel play I think "that could have been a 1st rd rookie CB / OLB / S" and it pains me.

I'm not against the Cooks trade but how about this notion ... Don't trade Cooks for that 1st rd pick and / or don't let Amendola walk . They apparently didn't have a plan to replace either one ... or their plan failed (obviously).

At this point I think I'd rather have Cooks on his last year, franchise him for Brady's last year (next season) ... than 4 years of Michel. 

Now they bring in the lowest caliber player to try and put a baind-aid on their mistakes.

Guy got cut from the Browns for coming in drunk ... AGAIN, and he's gonna make all the difference? Reeks of desperation ... as it should

 

But I'm a lot more concerned with the defense than the offense. Sunday was poor play calling on offense and it struck me as McDaniels trying to justify to BB the pick for Michel.

(you know McDaniels had a huge say in BB drafting the RB ...   I can't see any other reason why BB would have drafted a RB there when he was so thin elsewhere).

 

Defense "bend don't break" last few seasons was a glass half full term to describe them not being able to get off the field on 3rd downs.

Same defense again but now they "break". It's a shame Brady is going to go out with such a poor team around him.

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The sky isn't falling and, as long as BB & Brady are in NE, they have a decent shot at the Super Bowl and a victory there. But the D is just as bad as it was last year. The only high profile signing was Clayborn and he's not even earning PT. In any game they play this defense will be a liability and, in games against competent offenses, could easily cost NE a game. 

Gordon.... I'm ok with the price and hope that maybe the Browns supportive approach was the opposite of what he needed and the Pats take the hardass approach and it works. I'd guess the odds of Gordon making a change here in NE are pretty low and he's gone within 3 weeks. 

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Unless there are DRASTIC improvements on defense, Pats win their division with a 10-6 record and host a wildcard game week one of the playoffs.

If they can manage to win that, they then lose on the road the next week to a well rested KC or JAX team.

No way they get to the AFCCG never mind the SB. 

Only way I see this changing drastically is maybe the Saints trading them Marshon Lattimore  ... and that's not happening.

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2 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Unless there are DRASTIC improvements on defense, Pats win their division with a 10-6 record and host a wildcard game week one of the playoffs.

If they can manage to win that, they then lose on the road the next week to a well rested KC or JAX team.

No way they get to the AFCCG never mind the SB. 

Only way I see this changing drastically is maybe the Saints trading them Marshon Lattimore  ... and that's not happening.

EXHIBIT A that people think that the sky is falling. I am wasting my breath on Bossman, but once more for old time's sake.

The heat and humidity played a huge role in the JAX game. They were gassed before they got through the first quarter. Several key plays tilted the game. Not to knock the Jags, who did everything well. But there were things that made for an insurmountable uphill climb.

- Early in the game, NE offense stalled on a clear PI on the defense on Gronk. You can see the defender with a handful of Gronk's jersey preventing him from getting to the ball for a non call and a missed long FG.

- NE stopped JAX on their first possession on what would have been a 3 and out. Flowers created a fumble that bounced back toward the LOS and between 2-3 NE defenders. If the ball bounced into the hands of a NE player, that could easily have gone for a NE TD. Instead, the ball bounced to a JAX receiver in stride, who then made a first down out of what should have been a disaster for the Jags. Drive capped with an absolute perfect pass in the end zone, literally inched away from a defender.

- Next possession for the Jags, they needed 15 yards for a first down and COle had the insane one handed ball pinned on his helmet catch. Great play but very improbable. JAX scored again . . . on a blatant pick play that left the TE wide open. The Jags ran several similar plays that left guys wide open. On many other occasions, that type of play has been called OPI when run by NE. In this case, all of them went as no calls.

- Both in game and pre-existing injuries certainly didn't go their way. Cannon was out. Burkhead and Michel weren't 100%. Defenders knocked out in game.

- In general, Bortles was on fire. In many other games, Bortles has been a liability. If these teams play again, the incompetent Bortles could just as easily show up.

Bottom line, the game script didn't work out yesterday. Similarly, the Jags will have weeks where they are much more mortal than yesterday. As discussed ad nauseum, NE never looks that great in September. Let's see how they do when they hit their stride.

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Anarchy, your not wasting your breath on me. I'm really hoping someone can talk me down and I appreciate your input.

 

You're talking lots of "what if's" on how they lost, bouncing balls, officiating, weather, ...

the 1985 Patriots won using these factors. I've come to expect this version of the Patriots to not have to rely on these to determine victory.

Bortles having the game of his life wasn't because he happened to be having a good day .... it was because NE's defense was atrocious.

Guys were open all over the field and the mistake prone Bortles wasn't forced into many mistakes. Hard to miss when you have plenty of time to throw and a target that has no defender within 5 yards of him.

The few times Bortles couldn't find a target, he just slipped out to the left where the DE was already 12 yards behind the line of scrimmage trying to get around the LT.

Very un-Patriots like. 

But I'm talking about this team having less talented players than most teams (other than at QB / TE) and it's biting them in the ### 

BB is a great coach but not even HIS turd polishing is going to make this defense championship worthy. Game plan and scheme all you wan't.

The McCourty twins experiment at FS is failing and no answer at CB after losing an avg corner in Butler this offseason.

Still can't generate a pass rush which makes it even more impossible to defend the pass.

The only way this defense succeeds is when the other team gifts them the ball (Watson muffed handoff 1st play of game and NE wins by 7 points).

NE sack totals last year were a result in teams needing to drop back often to keep up with Brady. That doesn't appear to be a problem for other teams this year.

Bortles tried to gift it to them Sunday but Pats offense gave it right back. 

I'm tired of hearing BB and TB toting the team line ... "we just have to execute better". That's a phrase BB uses to justify not having talented players.

Here's a thought for ya Bill .... I bet they could execute better if they had more talent

 

JAX used that pick play on a crossing route several times. It didn't get called and NE did nothing to adjust. Just sit back and hope the ref throws a flag this time?

How about NE pass off the WR to the safety ... or better yet, run the same play on offense if they're not going to call it? Can't blame the refs.

 

As far as not performing well in Sept, my concerns with this team (defense) started in January last season (playoffs).

Bradys heroics camouflaged a Defense that was not good then ... and we saw them at their worst in the SB.  

Now Brady has lost weapons (Lewis, Cooks, Mitchell, Amendola) and can no longer carry such a poor defense that has seemed to have taken yet another step backwards this year. and BB drafted Sony Michel to fill the void left by these players and take some of the load off Brady. Sunday proves this was a major fail. 

Edleman coming back in 3 weeks will help some but coming off a knee, I doubt he'll be 100% of what he once was.

Now if NE should CRUSH a horribly coached DET team next week, it will have folks thinking SB again and poo-pooing my opinions.  ... but prove me wrong vs a KC, MIN, CHI, GB. 

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9 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Anarchy, your not wasting your breath on me. I'm really hoping someone can talk me down and I appreciate your input.

 

You're talking lots of "what if's" on how they lost, bouncing balls, officiating, weather, ...

the 1985 Patriots won using these factors. I've come to expect this version of the Patriots to not have to rely on these to determine victory.

Bortles having the game of his life wasn't because he happened to be having a good day .... it was because NE's defense was atrocious.

Guys were open all over the field and the mistake prone Bortles wasn't forced into many mistakes. Hard to miss when you have plenty of time to throw and a target that has no defender within 5 yards of him.

The few times Bortles couldn't find a target, he just slipped out to the left where the DE was already 12 yards behind the line of scrimmage trying to get around the LT.

Very un-Patriots like. 

But I'm talking about this team having less talented players than most teams (other than at QB / TE) and it's biting them in the ### 

BB is a great coach but not even HIS turd polishing is going to make this defense championship worthy. Game plan and scheme all you wan't.

The McCourty twins experiment at FS is failing and no answer at CB after losing an avg corner in Butler this offseason.

Still can't generate a pass rush which makes it even more impossible to defend the pass.

The only way this defense succeeds is when the other team gifts them the ball (Watson muffed handoff 1st play of game and NE wins by 7 points).

NE sack totals last year were a result in teams needing to drop back often to keep up with Brady. That doesn't appear to be a problem for other teams this year.

Bortles tried to gift it to them Sunday but Pats offense gave it right back. 

I'm tired of hearing BB and TB toting the team line ... "we just have to execute better". That's a phrase BB uses to justify not having talented players.

Here's a thought for ya Bill .... I bet they could execute better if they had more talent

 

JAX used that pick play on a crossing route several times. It didn't get called and NE did nothing to adjust. Just sit back and hope the ref throws a flag this time?

How about NE pass off the WR to the safety ... or better yet, run the same play on offense if they're not going to call it? Can't blame the refs.

 

As far as not performing well in Sept, my concerns with this team (defense) started in January last season (playoffs).

Bradys heroics camouflaged a Defense that was not good then ... and we saw them at their worst in the SB.  

Now Brady has lost weapons (Lewis, Cooks, Mitchell, Amendola) and can no longer carry such a poor defense that has seemed to have taken yet another step backwards this year. and BB drafted Sony Michel to fill the void left by these players and take some of the load off Brady. Sunday proves this was a major fail. 

Edleman coming back in 3 weeks will help some but coming off a knee, I doubt he'll be 100% of what he once was.

Now if NE should CRUSH a horribly coached DET team next week, it will have folks thinking SB again and poo-pooing my opinions.  ... but prove me wrong vs a KC, MIN, CHI, GB. 

Like I said, there literally is no longer a point in me responding to your posts, as your negativity only breeds more of your own negativity. But sticking only to the bolded 4 players and Malcolm Butler . . .

Brady losing his weapons:
- How many games / years did NE win and with how many different RBs before Lewis ever got to town? They will not even notice that Lewis is gone. Their RB's are fine.
- How many games / years did NE win and with how many different WRs before Cooks got to town? He was here for a single season. A WR corps of Edelman, Gordon, Hogan, Dorsett, and Patterson (ESPECIALLY with their set of TEs and RBs) is a best combined collection of receiving targets on the roster in the BB/TB era other than the 2007 season.
- Mitchell played a role in pretty much one half of one Super Bowl. The rest of the time he was in NE he was hurt or did close to nothing.
- Amendola turned into a decent third down receiver in the playoffs and subbed in admirably for Edelman last year. But he was what he was. a fill in receiver that was not a huge part of the offense.

Butler:
Through the first 2 weeks of the season, Butler is the worst ranked CB in the NFL. He's allowed 257 yards receiving and 3 TDs. Maybe BB was on to something by not playing him.

NOTHING was proven on Sunday's loss to Jacksonville. It is still very possible that NE gets their act together and ends up as the top seed for the playoffs. NE has three tough road games (@MIA, @PIT, @CHI) and a couple of tough home games (MIN and GB) still to play. I really don't see them only getting 10 wins short of a number of key injuries.

We've seen the same scenario multiple times over the years. A loss at MIA by 20 points in 2001. A shutout at BUF 31-0 on opening day in 2003. Losing to PIT by 2 TD in 2004. Losing Week 1 by 13 @MIA and the infamous 27 point blowout at KC in 2014. Losing 16-0 at home against the Bills in 2016. Another 15 opening day loss at home to the Chiefs last year. They don't play anywhere near as well in the early part of the season.

The other thing is, 31 teams don't win the SB. The chances of any team winning each year is pretty small. NE has the bar raised so high that it's basically a SB win or nothing. The way you often describe the team, you make them out to be worse than the Browns like they will never win another game . . . ever.

You are welcome to chime and pat yourself on the back after they go 10-6 and lose early in the playoffs. Until then, have fun posting that they are a terrible team.

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My band is going to tour with and open for Cold Play .... "we just need to execute better"

:rolleyes:

tough games on the NE schedule:

vs KC, @ CHI, vs GB (my gawd Aaron Rogers will have a career day here), vs MIN, ...  I could see them losing 3 out of 4 of these ... if not all 4.

along with division rival games which are always tough. Pencil them in for a loss or two in the division. So 4-5 losses here added to this one. Not hard to imagine 10-6.

Stay healthy and the defense figures it out, ... or maybe they get hot at the right time? 

but I pine for the good 'ol days of Mayo, Chandler Jones, Ninkovich, Talib, and a young Hightower. You don't know what you have until it's gone.

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Anyone care to guess who the running back to own is going forward for the Patriots?  I have Burkhead and know he's been banged up, but White and Michel are both available on waivers as well.  I see it as White being the most steady in PPR and Michel having the most upside.  I'm not so sure about Burkhead anymore.  Any insight from Patriots homers?

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53 minutes ago, elshagon said:

Anyone care to guess who the running back to own is going forward for the Patriots?  I have Burkhead and know he's been banged up, but White and Michel are both available on waivers as well.  I see it as White being the most steady in PPR and Michel having the most upside.  I'm not so sure about Burkhead anymore.  Any insight from Patriots homers?

Better question for the Coaches Forum but you're on the mark here.

White is the only consistent one (in PPR) but they sure did try and force feed Sony Michel Sunday.

Unfortunately he was bottled up by a stingy JAX defense but I believe NE still wants to make their 1st rd RB the RB1 over Burkhead. 

Burkheads upside is limited. I think we've already seen what he has to offer while Michel still has lots of upside..

... and NE homers don't know much more than the rest when it comes to who BB will be featuring week to week. It's a classic NE RBBC and in the end they'll play the hot hand.

 

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2 hours ago, elshagon said:

Anyone care to guess who the running back to own is going forward for the Patriots?  I have Burkhead and know he's been banged up, but White and Michel are both available on waivers as well.  I see it as White being the most steady in PPR and Michel having the most upside.  I'm not so sure about Burkhead anymore.  Any insight from Patriots homers?

Ultimately I would vote there won't be a single guy as the one to own in NE. As I see it, Burkhead is probably still the favorite to get a broader workload and goal line carries (which there haven't been any yet). People need to remember he is coming back from injury. I think he will get a lot more targets in the receiving game than the limited amount he's seen so far.

Not sure Michel showed a lot in his first appearance, as a 3.4 ypc average isn't exactly stellar. Burkhead hasn't been great either (3.6), but it's not like Michel has run laps around him. White doesn't do much running the ball, and I think once Edelman gets back White's value will take a hit.

Also it's hard to really get a read on the RB corps, as they've faced a couple of good defenses and two of their RB's were coming off of injuries. But bottom line I don't think one guy takes over and gets a giant workload with a huge majority of yardage and TDs (not without long term injuries to the other backs).

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Bleacher Report story about how Brady is tired of playing for Belichick.

Brady divorce Belichick

They took info from a new Belichick book: Making of The Greatest Football Coach of All Time

Not sure I take this as much more than speculation and opinions of others though. 

True, BB is the greatest coach ever. No one has accomplished more than him and what makes his coaching so impressive is that he's done it with mostly average players for such an extended length of time.

BB is a grouch to the media ... he seems different when he's not at the podium. So I'm not buying the grouch angle.

and I'm not buying that Brady is frustrated by not being complimented by the coaching staff. Gimme a break.

"If you're married 18 years to a grouchy person who gets under your skin and never compliments you, after a while you want to divorce him," the source told author and ESPN reporter Ian O'Connor following the 2017 season

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On 9/18/2018 at 10:01 AM, Bossman said:

Unless there are DRASTIC improvements on defense, Pats win their division with a 10-6 record and host a wildcard game week one of the playoffs.

If they can manage to win that, they then lose on the road the next week to a well rested KC or JAX team.

No way they get to the AFCCG never mind the SB. 

Only way I see this changing drastically is maybe the Saints trading them Marshon Lattimore  ... and that's not happening.

:blackdot:

 

ps the same Lattimore that Mike Evans smoked in week 1?

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49 minutes ago, wikkidpissah said:

Sony Michel Era begins this week. Jax blew up the blocking all over the place last wk, but i liked the kid's poise, patience & burst. Looks a natural to me and stands to be best RB of Belichick's tenure.

Oh, God, wikkid, don't jinx it. 

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3 hours ago, Bossman said:

Bleacher Report story about how Brady is tired of playing for Belichick.

Brady divorce Belichick

They took info from a new Belichick book: Making of The Greatest Football Coach of All Time

Not sure I take this as much more than speculation and opinions of others though. 

True, BB is the greatest coach ever. No one has accomplished more than him and what makes his coaching so impressive is that he's done it with mostly average players for such an extended length of time.

BB is a grouch to the media ... he seems different when he's not at the podium. So I'm not buying the grouch angle.

and I'm not buying that Brady is frustrated by not being complimented by the coaching staff. Gimme a break.

"If you're married 18 years to a grouchy person who gets under your skin and never compliments you, after a while you want to divorce him," the source told author and ESPN reporter Ian O'Connor following the 2017 season

We are doomed as a society.  The millienials and other disenfranchised demographics have taken over, and we expect everyone to play the victim card instead of doing their job.

:disgusted:

 

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3 hours ago, Bossman said:

Bleacher Report story about how Brady is tired of playing for Belichick.

Brady divorce Belichick

They took info from a new Belichick book: Making of The Greatest Football Coach of All Time

Not sure I take this as much more than speculation and opinions of others though. 

True, BB is the greatest coach ever. No one has accomplished more than him and what makes his coaching so impressive is that he's done it with mostly average players for such an extended length of time.

BB is a grouch to the media ... he seems different when he's not at the podium. So I'm not buying the grouch angle.

and I'm not buying that Brady is frustrated by not being complimented by the coaching staff. Gimme a break.

"If you're married 18 years to a grouchy person who gets under your skin and never compliments you, after a while you want to divorce him," the source told author and ESPN reporter Ian O'Connor following the 2017 season

Teddy Bruschi talked about this on Sportscenter this morning. Said it does wear you down to think you've had good games and be told that you didn't and to always worry about getting 'caught' not being your best and never be able to relax when you think you've deserved it and, finally, be told you can't cut it no more but also stipulated that all of that got the best possible football out of him.

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3 hours ago, Bossman said:

Bleacher Report story about how Brady is tired of playing for Belichick.

Brady divorce Belichick

They took info from a new Belichick book: Making of The Greatest Football Coach of All Time

Not sure I take this as much more than speculation and opinions of others though. 

True, BB is the greatest coach ever. No one has accomplished more than him and what makes his coaching so impressive is that he's done it with mostly average players for such an extended length of time.

BB is a grouch to the media ... he seems different when he's not at the podium. So I'm not buying the grouch angle.

and I'm not buying that Brady is frustrated by not being complimented by the coaching staff. Gimme a break.

"If you're married 18 years to a grouchy person who gets under your skin and never compliments you, after a while you want to divorce him," the source told author and ESPN reporter Ian O'Connor following the 2017 season

and this is what is NOT so impressive about BB. He's having to do this without elite caliber athletes ... but that's his own shortcoming.

His scouting skills are not his strong suit. Did he not enjoy coaching Lawrence Taylor? Lets get a future HOF LB in a Pats uniform and find out.

(I still think Rashaan Evans would be in a Patriots uniform if Vrables Titans didn't trade up and snipe him the pick prior to NE's)

Team had better talent when Scott Pioli was making the personnel decisions.

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On 9/19/2018 at 2:07 PM, wikkidpissah said:

Sony Michel Era begins this week. Jax blew up the blocking all over the place last wk, but i liked the kid's poise, patience & burst. Looks a natural to me and stands to be best RB of Belichick's tenure.

nm - i meant i liked his smallness, slowness & strengthlessness.

except that Brady wasn't throwing balls str8 into the ground like an angry baby, Pats looked just like the wk b4 "on to Cincinnati"

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No quality WR's, can't run the ball, and their 29th ranked defense can not stop the winless Lions. Lions DID NOT PUNT UNTIL LATE 4th QTR!

 

Those that still think this defense will "turn it around" ... your kidding yourselves. Playoffs last year, SB, and 3 games this year. Not sure how much more of a sample size you need. BB's ego of thinking he can "coach 'em up" is biting him in the balloon knot. This turd of a defense is beyond polishing. I can not think of one team that has less talent on defense.

Brady should ask to be traded to SF to finish what now is looking like his final season. I can't stand seeing him go out like this. He deserves better. 

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Gronk confirms that he threatened to retire if BB traded him to DET.

gronkowski-trade-detroit

 

Could you imagine this team without Gronkowski right now? Dude is drawing double and triple teams and NE offense still struggles.

Good chance they are 0-3 without him to this point.

I've come to the conclusion that either Belichick has lost his marbles ... or he's sabotaging the team around Brady out of spite for Kraft not letting Bill trade Brady & keep Garapolo.

Problem is, hard to fault Brady for how bad the team is playing. He spent most of the night on the sidelines last night and the few moments that he was on the field, was busy handing off the ball to Sanyo Michel.

 

Some other fun stats from last nights game:

Patriots converted a total of 2 3rd downs. Yes, 2 total

Time of possession ... NE 20 mins ... DET 40 mins :confused:

Sanyo Michel Rushing

1st half 7 rush for 10 yards ... 1.6 avg. // Full game; 14 for 50 yds ... 3.6 avg / 1 reception of 3 targets for (-1 yd) ...

James White Rushing 4 for 37 ... 9.3 avg / 3 reception of 3 targets for 14 yds and 1 TD

 

and here's one I'm sure you'll like...

Patriots traded Garapolo for SF's 2nd rd pick ... traded said pick to DET.  ...DET uses that pick on RB Kerryon Johnson

16 rush attempts for 101 and 6.3 avg.

Guy looks like an uber stud compared to Sany Michel.

 

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Brady wants more James White

 

In the post-game press conference, Brady states White should be more involved. Dis at Sony Michel?

“He had a great catch and some great runs there at the end for us,” Brady said during his postgame news conference when asked if White should be more involved. “He’s just a great player for us. He’s got to be involved. Guys who can make plays, those are the ones that should be involved, and James is certainly one of them.”

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On 9/24/2018 at 1:34 AM, Bossman said:

No quality WR's, can't run the ball, and their 29th ranked defense can not stop the winless Lions. Lions DID NOT PUNT UNTIL LATE 4th QTR!

 

Those that still think this defense will "turn it around" ... your kidding yourselves. Playoffs last year, SB, and 3 games this year. Not sure how much more of a sample size you need. BB's ego of thinking he can "coach 'em up" is biting him in the balloon knot. This turd of a defense is beyond polishing. I can not think of one team that has less talent on defense.

Brady should ask to be traded to SF to finish what now is looking like his final season. I can't stand seeing him go out like this. He deserves better. 

Just as BB has been arrogant most of his career about not needing to stretch the field with speed to get his guys open on offense, i believe the arrogance has creeped over to his defensive philosophy and will be his undoing.

I have a sense that, a few yrs ago, he & his staff developed some algorithims to anticipate gaps and pre-emptively plug them which required that his players do their tasks in a specific way and did not improvise. It was that which made wild talents like Chandler Jones & Jamie Collins untenable to him and has resulted in a tremendous lack of team speed at a time when everyone else, even his former defensive coordinator, is getting faster in their linebacking corps. A younger Belichick would have figured this out, but the old master is too stubborn to reverse "a Custer decision".

Edited by wikkidpissah
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On 9/25/2018 at 11:23 AM, wikkidpissah said:

Just as BB has been arrogant most of his career about not needing to stretch the field with speed to get his guys open on offense, i believe the arrogance has creeped over to his defensive philosophy and will be his undoing.

I have a sense that, a few yrs ago, he & his staff developed some algorithims to anticipate gaps and pre-emptively plug them which required that his players do their tasks in a specific way and did not improvise. It was that which made wild talents like Chandler Jones & Jamie Collins untenable to him and has resulted in a tremendous lack of team speed at a time when everyone else, even his former defensive coordinator, is getting faster in their linebacking corps. A younger Belichick would have figured this out, but the old master is too stubborn to reverse "a Custer decision".

This year was a perfect storm of fails on defense ...

Free agent signings, draft picks, and trades didn't pan out;

Danny Shelton - is he even starting? If he is, he hasn't made any noise at all.

Adrian Clayborne - Playing the "premier" blind side DE ... Has looked awful. Can't beat one on one block when pass rushing and seems a liability in stopping the run. 

Jason McCourty - Probably should have been cut. Moving him to safety experiment has failed. Likely kept him to appease his brother which is very un-Belichick like.

The one bright spot, rookie Jawan Bently was put on IR today. 

1st rookie taken, CB Duke Dawson gone to IR

Really never acquired a viable replacement for Malcom Butler ... even though his game dropped off dramatically the end of last season.

and I think the loss of Ryan Logan is even more of an issue. He wasn't great but was certainly better than Rowe and whoever else is on this roster.

Front 4 was once thought of as their strong unit on defense ... now not only can't pressure the QB but suddenly has forgot how to stop the run? 

LB's are sloths. I watched it in pre-season and it carried over to the regular season. Can't keep up with RB's, scrambling QB's, or even TE's. Just useless unless the ball carrier runs into them.

I actually think they'd be smart to start playing a nickle or even dime base defense. Just fill the field with DB's and mix up the coverage vs run defense / pass pressure. It's the only chance they have to keep up with RB's / TE's.

 ... but on the other hand, their DB's are just really bad after Gilmore and old men Devin & Chung (when healthy).

 

Seems to me that most teams are getting smaller and faster on defense while the Patriots front 7 are HUGE and slow. Just isn't working.

It's an up tempo game now with screen passes, QB option, and quick hits over the middle. Can not defend that with all large / slow LB's.

but you know ... "just gotta execute better". 

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It's a real cluster around here, not good. You lose Dion Lewis, B Cooks, and  Amendola, with the reigning MVP, and basically surround him with... nothing? And then there's the DEF but anyone with eyes could see a lot of these problems last year (just check the Super Bowl). If they lose to MIA it could get ugly. Teams can throw the ball with ease on these bums, yet Brady struggles to see anyone open. If they beat MIA and INDY, it could turn around as Edelman comes back. But McDaniels also needs to get his head out of his #### and not run slow Sony for 3 and outs. McDaniel has really sucked, getting the least out of whats tools he does have, zero creativity.  Or at least realize that you damn need 35-40 points a game to compete and get a win!

  On a side note: local talk radio and tv is just terrible. All they want to talk about is BS, hardly any real football; Gronk trade, Gronk's brother, Brady upset... it's total dumpster, entertainment tonight level. They are basically an unbelievable collection of d-bags.

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5 hours ago, AngryPatriot said:

But McDaniels also needs to get his head out of his #### and not run slow Sony for 3 and outs. McDaniel has really sucked, getting the least out of whats tools he does have, zero creativity.  Or at least realize that you damn need 35-40 points a game to compete and get a win!

Was baffled by the play calling last week. Talk about trying to fit a square peg in a round hole forcing S. Michel.

Think they should get back to what they've historically been good at and I don't see why they can't do it -- Spread the field, hurry it up, short quick throws. Send Gordon deep as a decoy. Forget the seven step drops and hope that the WRs can get separation. 

Also wonder if R. Mathews from TN could help...asking for his release.

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10 hours ago, Bossman said:

This year was a perfect storm of fails on defense ...

Free agent signings, draft picks, and trades didn't pan out;

Danny Shelton - is he even starting? If he is, he hasn't made any noise at all.

Adrian Clayborne - Playing the "premier" blind side DE ... Has looked awful. Can't beat one on one block when pass rushing and seems a liability in stopping the run. 

Jason McCourty - Probably should have been cut. Moving him to safety experiment has failed. Likely kept him to appease his brother which is very un-Belichick like.

The one bright spot, rookie Jawan Bently was put on IR today. 

1st rookie taken, CB Duke Dawson gone to IR

Really never acquired a viable replacement for Malcom Butler ... even though his game dropped off dramatically the end of last season.

and I think the loss of Ryan Logan is even more of an issue. He wasn't great but was certainly better than Rowe and whoever else is on this roster.

Front 4 was once thought of as their strong unit on defense ... now not only can't pressure the QB but suddenly has forgot how to stop the run? 

LB's are sloths. I watched it in pre-season and it carried over to the regular season. Can't keep up with RB's, scrambling QB's, or even TE's. Just useless unless the ball carrier runs into them.

I actually think they'd be smart to start playing a nickle or even dime base defense. Just fill the field with DB's and mix up the coverage vs run defense / pass pressure. It's the only chance they have to keep up with RB's / TE's.

 ... but on the other hand, their DB's are just really bad after Gilmore and old men Devin & Chung (when healthy).

 

Seems to me that most teams are getting smaller and faster on defense while the Patriots front 7 are HUGE and slow. Just isn't working.

It's an up tempo game now with screen passes, QB option, and quick hits over the middle. Can not defend that with all large / slow LB's.

but you know ... "just gotta execute better". 

now i'm really depressed....

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9 hours ago, AngryPatriot said:

It's a real cluster around here, not good. You lose Dion Lewis, B Cooks, and  Amendola, with the reigning MVP, and basically surround him with... nothing? And then there's the DEF but anyone with eyes could see a lot of these problems last year (just check the Super Bowl). If they lose to MIA it could get ugly. Teams can throw the ball with ease on these bums, yet Brady struggles to see anyone open. If they beat MIA and INDY, it could turn around as Edelman comes back. But McDaniels also needs to get his head out of his #### and not run slow Sony for 3 and outs. McDaniel has really sucked, getting the least out of whats tools he does have, zero creativity.  Or at least realize that you damn need 35-40 points a game to compete and get a win!

  On a side note: local talk radio and tv is just terrible. All they want to talk about is BS, hardly any real football; Gronk trade, Gronk's brother, Brady upset... it's total dumpster, entertainment tonight level. They are basically an unbelievable collection of d-bags.

I think one can blame last wk's offensive problems on the Pats feeling it was a good time to "see what Sony's got". He had done right v Jax, waiting for his blocks, so they ran thru him v Det and found out he actually hadn't been following his blocks, it's just that he couldnt outrun his offensive linemen..... Then, with the two drops, it was like "now, what do we do?" and they didnt have the receiver pool to play catchup. This wk it will be timing plays for Michel then, failing that, give DeMarco Murray a call or hire Darkwa to be their early-down plodder.

I don't listen to the radio, but i see the radio guys on the cable channel and they're just as you describe. They were always magpies, but Deflategate found them a grinding new gear...

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I just want to say that I still support the team and I really do want them to turn it around. 

To those that say "slow start, been here before" ... this time feels different. Prior seasons you could point to lack of execution and mistakes which are fixable.

This year is just plain lack of talent. I don't know how you can fix that. Bring in Josh Gordon? Maybe trade for a CB? LB?

Apologies for my frustrations / negativity but I've come to expect so much more from this team.

I know the end is near for Brady and this is painful for me to see it end like this ... and it's no fault of his.

I appreciate having this board to vent my frustrations and I'll try and keeps my rants to a minimum.

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watching the game tonight and I'm envious of the talent on both the Rams and Vikings.

MIN pays Cousins $28 mil per year and somehow still have room under the cap to give him weapons on offense and a stout defense.

Rams built an amazing team around rookie QB Goff. That defense is legit ... and they're still $8 mil under the cap this year? Sheesh.

Lots of quality draft picks on both teams.

 

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3 games in, lets see how the draft class of 2018 is doing'

really need some youth on both sides of the ball this year.

 

1.23 Isaiah Wynn OT - IR achillies

1.31 Sony Michel - 24 att for 84 yards, 0 TD's 3.5 yards per carry // 5 targets, 2 rec for 6 yards.

2.11 Traded

2.19 Traded

2.24 Duke Dawson CB - IR Uterus

2.31 Traded

3.31 Traded

4.05 Antonio Calliway WR -  Oops Traded

4.17 Traded

4.31 Traded

5.06 Jawahn Bently LB - IR Fallopian Tube

-----------

How much different would this draft look had it started this way

1.23 Wynn

1.31 Darius Leonard LB

2.11 Keryon Johnson RB

 

 

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Here's something to ponder ... take a minute to digest before you react.

 

Should NE lose to MIA this weekend, should NE consider tanking to grab a QB in the draft? Ala IND Colts?

Should they start out 1-3, Brady is likely to retire after this season the way they are playing. My guess is that this is completely taking the wind out of his sails.

Gronk threatened to retire last year if he wasn't catching passes from Brady ... so with Brady gone, good chance he'd likely take his sugically repaired anatomy to the WWF next year.

Belichick isn't dumb. He sees the writing on the wall. He's always thinking of the future not just this season.

So how do they do it?. IMO the best way to tank would be to take the ball out of your best players hands (Brady) by handing the ball off to Sony Michel a dozen times or more.

.... and put a defense on the field with the game plan / mind set to "let the other team run on you". Keep the clock moving on defense and keep Brady on the sidelines.

Nice long sustained drives for the other team and be sure you have no one talented enough to get pressure on the QB in the case they do need to throw the ball on 3rd down.

Oh, wait, did this plan already start? If so, seems to be working to perfection.

Only HOU, OAK, and ARZ, have a worse record to this point ... but a loss to MIA here would benefit them greatly.

Top 5 pick this year?

 

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2 minutes ago, Bossman said:

Here's something to ponder ... take a minute to digest before you react.

 

Should NE lose to MIA this weekend, should NE consider tanking to grab a QB in the draft? Ala IND Colts?

Should they start out 1-3, Brady is likely to retire after this season the way they are playing. My guess is that this is completely taking the wind out of his sails.

Gronk threatened to retire last year if he wasn't catching passes from Brady ... so with Brady gone, good chance he'd likely take his sugically repaired anatomy to the WWF next year.

Belichick isn't dumb. He sees the writing on the wall. He's always thinking of the future not just this season.

So how do they do it?. IMO the best way to tank would be to take the ball out of your best players hands (Brady) by handing the ball off to Sony Michel a dozen times or more.

.... and put a defense on the field with the game plan / mind set to "let the other team run on you". Keep the clock moving on defense and keep Brady on the sidelines.

Nice long sustained drives for the other team and be sure you have no one talented enough to get pressure on the QB in the case they do need to throw the ball on 3rd down.

Oh, wait, did this plan already start? If so, seems to be working to perfection.

Only HOU, OAK, and ARZ, have a worse record to this point ... but a loss to MIA here would benefit them greatly.

Top 5 pick this year?

 

Took the minute. Pondered.

:crazy:

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2 hours ago, Bossman said:

Here's something to ponder ... take a minute to digest before you react.

 

Should NE lose to MIA this weekend, should NE consider tanking to grab a QB in the draft? Ala IND Colts?

Should they start out 1-3, Brady is likely to retire after this season the way they are playing. My guess is that this is completely taking the wind out of his sails.

Gronk threatened to retire last year if he wasn't catching passes from Brady ... so with Brady gone, good chance he'd likely take his sugically repaired anatomy to the WWF next year.

Belichick isn't dumb. He sees the writing on the wall. He's always thinking of the future not just this season.

So how do they do it?. IMO the best way to tank would be to take the ball out of your best players hands (Brady) by handing the ball off to Sony Michel a dozen times or more.

.... and put a defense on the field with the game plan / mind set to "let the other team run on you". Keep the clock moving on defense and keep Brady on the sidelines.

Nice long sustained drives for the other team and be sure you have no one talented enough to get pressure on the QB in the case they do need to throw the ball on 3rd down.

Oh, wait, did this plan already start? If so, seems to be working to perfection.

Only HOU, OAK, and ARZ, have a worse record to this point ... but a loss to MIA here would benefit them greatly.

Top 5 pick this year?

 

Tell the truth, are you actually a disgruntled Jets fan masquerading as a Pats homer?

The "completely taking the wind out his sails" is a purely millenial comment.  Things are hard so I'm just going to quit.  Pitiful.

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2 hours ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

Tell the truth, are you actually a disgruntled Jets fan masquerading as a Pats homer?

The "completely taking the wind out his sails" is a purely millenial comment.  Things are hard so I'm just going to quit.  Pitiful.

The way he's been talking, there isn't much wind left in his sails to begin with.

- Offseason was talking about the pull to be with his family, etc.

  Giselle wants him to be done and he's now publicly accepting the fact that it's almost over.

- He skipped voluntary workouts this year. 31 other starting QB's were with their teams whilst Tom stayed home.

  Timing with new WR's not critical to Tom anymore? Or is it the fact that he can hardly stand BB (and or McDaniels)?

- He's questioning the coaching decisions, starting with Butler in the SB and now White on the bench last week.

  If he's saying these things to show frustration publicly, you know it's 10x worse in his brain.

 

If they lose tomorrow and go to 1-3, not hard to imagine them losing 4 more games ... even if they do "figure it out".  9-7 at best then.

If you think he'll be gung-ho to jump back in next season after going 9-7 this year with an early playoff exit, and no cap room to make any major improvements to the team

 ... you're fooling yourself.

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30 minutes ago, Bossman said:

If you think he'll be gung-ho to jump back in next season after going 9-7 this year with an early playoff exit, and no cap room to make any major improvements to the team

 ... you're fooling yourself.

He's 5,137 yards and 45 touchdowns behind peyton. I don't think he gets there this year, and i don't think he'll retire that close to passing his biggest rival.  Brees will pass them both, and i don't think Brady will outlast him in the league, so it's possible, but i think brady really does want to be the unquestioned greatest to ever play the game, and passing his biggest contemporary is almost certainly on his to do list 

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9 minutes ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

Paging Bossman.... lmao.

 

:thumbup:

 

Was a great game for our Pats ... but against a very weak MIA team (but so was DET). MIA was lucky to be 3-0 beating TEN, NYJ, OAK.

Really liked the fact that Pats had the run game going early ... then they went away from it for no apparent reason. :confused:

My concerns with the defense are lowered a notch but I still don't have a lot of confidence in that side of the ball vs a quality offense.

 

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