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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (7 Viewers)

Did Belichek really mock the Colts for not having a good backup and going 1-15? Uh, Bill - the Colts ended up doing just fine with that approach. They ultimately got a generational talent at QB for the next 15 years.

The only strategy that makes sense right now is "Championship or be damned". I don't care that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 because they had a good backup QB. I can't believe so many Pats fans are falling for this bs logic. They absolutely wasted a 2nd round pick this year, plain and simple. And yes, it could cost them a championship. But keep drinking the BB coolaid.

 
Did Belichek really mock the Colts for not having a good backup and going 1-15? Uh, Bill - the Colts ended up doing just fine with that approach. They ultimately got a generational talent at QB for the next 15 years.

The only strategy that makes sense right now is "Championship or be damned". I don't care that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 because they had a good backup QB. I can't believe so many Pats fans are falling for this bs logic. They absolutely wasted a 2nd round pick this year, plain and simple. And yes, it could cost them a championship. But keep drinking the BB coolaid.
Are you lost?

 
Financially how impossible would it be to move Mallet in a deal that gets us Andre Johnson?
The player that is traded for must fit in under the salary cap at the time the trade is made and he gets placed on the new team's roster. However, it is possible for Johnson to redo his deal EITHER before OR after he is traded (I am pretty sure you can't do both). It is important to realize that HOU could have to eat a big part of the salary cap hit if he renegotiates AFTER the trade. If Johnson makes enough waves, who knows if the Texans would just outright release him (doubtful, but you never know).

I haven't paid close enough attention to remember which players already on the NE roster would be candidates to redo their deals or get extensions, or who they would consider cutting to clear space to make cap room for Johnson. The salary cap hit from cutting Hernandez would have gone a long way to bringing in one more big contract . . .

 
Did Belichek really mock the Colts for not having a good backup and going 1-15? Uh, Bill - the Colts ended up doing just fine with that approach. They ultimately got a generational talent at QB for the next 15 years.

The only strategy that makes sense right now is "Championship or be damned". I don't care that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 because they had a good backup QB. I can't believe so many Pats fans are falling for this bs logic. They absolutely wasted a 2nd round pick this year, plain and simple. And yes, it could cost them a championship. But keep drinking the BB coolaid.
Not only do you make tasty chicken but a good post too. BUT- they should be better than last year in concrete ways. The 12-4 record was full of smoke and mirrors, good luck, bad luck, and shoddy football. What gets me is not doing a better job of building around your best player. If Keller or Finley get healthy they should sign one of them, get one more WR... or maybe Mark harrison has a legitimate future with this team, lol Andre Johnson is not walking through that door!!

BBellichick has lost his luster for me, not so brilliant anymore. I am off the bandwagon till proven otherwise. I'm not sure McDaniels and BB is a good mix either. The play calling seemed horrible a lot of the time last year. Run, run, attempted 4 yard pass, punt. No balls.

 
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Financially how impossible would it be to move Mallet in a deal that gets us Andre Johnson?
The player that is traded for must fit in under the salary cap at the time the trade is made and he gets placed on the new team's roster. However, it is possible for Johnson to redo his deal EITHER before OR after he is traded (I am pretty sure you can't do both). It is important to realize that HOU could have to eat a big part of the salary cap hit if he renegotiates AFTER the trade. If Johnson makes enough waves, who knows if the Texans would just outright release him (doubtful, but you never know).I haven't paid close enough attention to remember which players already on the NE roster would be candidates to redo their deals or get extensions, or who they would consider cutting to clear space to make cap room for Johnson. The salary cap hit from cutting Hernandez would have gone a long way to bringing in one more big contract . . .
Yeah im pretty confident its just not possible, was hoping for someone to surprise me.

 
For those clamoring for a non-QB pick in the second round in favor of an immediate impact position player and every down starter, how'd things work out with second round picks G Adrian Clemm, WR Bethel Johnson, DE Marquise Hill (RIP), WR Chad Jackson, CB Terrence Wheatley, NT Ron Brace, CB Darius Butler, S Patrick Chung, LB Jermaine Cunningham, LB Brandon Spikes, and CB Ras-I Dowling? The point being, there seems to be a lot of amateur draft experts out there, but drafting is harder than it looks. Sure, it's pretty easy to cherry pick who they should have picked several years later, but at the time of these drafts all teams don't have the ability to predict the future.

 
Financially how impossible would it be to move Mallet in a deal that gets us Andre Johnson?
The player that is traded for must fit in under the salary cap at the time the trade is made and he gets placed on the new team's roster. However, it is possible for Johnson to redo his deal EITHER before OR after he is traded (I am pretty sure you can't do both). It is important to realize that HOU could have to eat a big part of the salary cap hit if he renegotiates AFTER the trade. If Johnson makes enough waves, who knows if the Texans would just outright release him (doubtful, but you never know).I haven't paid close enough attention to remember which players already on the NE roster would be candidates to redo their deals or get extensions, or who they would consider cutting to clear space to make cap room for Johnson. The salary cap hit from cutting Hernandez would have gone a long way to bringing in one more big contract . . .
Yeah im pretty confident its just not possible, was hoping for someone to surprise me.
I did not get a graduate degree in capology, but I believe Johnson has a $6.5 million salary for the 2014 season (HOU already had to pay him a $5.5 million bonus in the offseason). That is actually a big plus for NE. With a $1 million roster bonus each year, I believe he is due $11M and $12M the following two years.

As I see it, NE just needs to be $6.5 million under the cap to acquire him and then they could rework his deal. I think it is doable, as the Pats have a couple of guys they could try to restructure. Every little bit would help. I suspect there would be two issues . . . 1) would Johnson take a substantial pay cut to get out of Houston and play for a perennial contender and 2) would the Texans be willing to absorb the giant salary cap hit in trading him.

 
... heard the Texans would have an 11m hit, but save 3.9 or close in salary cap this year.

Good point about the 2nd round, that's an impressive list, lol.

 
Financially how impossible would it be to move Mallet in a deal that gets us Andre Johnson?
I've seen different figures listed, but it would be very possible.

The biggest hurdle would be what kind of money he expects past this year, si.ce he's probably just shaking hou down for more cash.

There are really no significant cap issues

 
For those clamoring for a non-QB pick in the second round in favor of an immediate impact position player and every down starter, how'd things work out with second round picks G Adrian Clemm, WR Bethel Johnson, DE Marquise Hill (RIP), WR Chad Jackson, CB Terrence Wheatley, NT Ron Brace, CB Darius Butler, S Patrick Chung, LB Jermaine Cunningham, LB Brandon Spikes, and CB Ras-I Dowling? The point being, there seems to be a lot of amateur draft experts out there, but drafting is harder than it looks. Sure, it's pretty easy to cherry pick who they should have picked several years later, but at the time of these drafts all teams don't have the ability to predict the future.
With all due respect, count me among those clamoring for a player who "might" help the team win this year or next. You are making what amounts to a straw man argument; we aren't arguing for an immediate impact player. For the sake of argument lets say there is only a 10% chance a draft pick will turn out to be productive (5 yr starter more or less). What bothers so many of us is that even if they were right, they drafted a player who absolutely cannot help the team win this year or next,

It is simple and as complicated as that, if you are equally concerned with 2016 as you are with 2014 then the pick made sense. However, if you feel the team has a hof qb in the twilight of his career and a real shot at winning a sb this year or next, then you are extremely disappointed they selected a player who cannot possibly help them this year or next.

I love the rest of the draft, I just hate taking a player in the 2nd who even if he is the next dan marino, he can't help u this year or next and more likely than not he will sit for 3 years. That is a fn waste, when you consider that they could have taken a player that at least had a chance to help them on offense, defense or special teams this year or next..... Keep in mind how close their sb losses were and how much a crappolo would have helped them sitting on the bench vs someone who might actually play a few snaps.

Its all good, just a difference of opinion on this one ;)

 
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You are correct sir. But we don't need to worry! We signed these guys.... (Reiss info I think...espn)

The following is a look at the nine undrafted free agents signed by the New England Patriots and the guaranteed money in their contracts:

LB Cameron Gordon: $35,000 ($15,000 signing bonus, $20,000 base salary)
RB Stephen Houston: $22,500 ($7,500 signing bonus, $15,000 base salary)
TE Asa Watson: $20,000 ($3,000 signing bonus, $17,000 base salary)
TE Justin Jones: $15,000 ($5,000 signing bonus, $10,000 base salary)
RB Roy Finch: $10,000 ($5,000 signing bonus, $5,000 base salary)
Safety Shamiel Gary: $10,000 ($5,000 signing bonus, $5,000 base salary)
CB Travis Hawkins: $10,000 ($5,000 signing bonus, $5,000 base salary)
LB Deontae Skinner: $5,000 ($5,000 base salary)
TE Tyler Beck: $1,500 ($1,500 signing bonus)

ANALYSIS: This totals $47,000 in signing bonuses and $82,000 in guaranteed base salary. When a player has a higher total in guaranteed money, it usually reflects that there was more competition from other teams, which means those players fall into the "priority free agent" category. The 6-foot-3, 237-pound Gordon played in 45 games at Michigan, beginning his career as a wide receiver before moving to safety in 2010 and then linebacker in 2011. Last season, he totaled 38 tackles, four sacks and one forced fumble.

 
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For those clamoring for a non-QB pick in the second round in favor of an immediate impact position player and every down starter, how'd things work out with second round picks G Adrian Clemm, WR Bethel Johnson, DE Marquise Hill (RIP), WR Chad Jackson, CB Terrence Wheatley, NT Ron Brace, CB Darius Butler, S Patrick Chung, LB Jermaine Cunningham, LB Brandon Spikes, and CB Ras-I Dowling? The point being, there seems to be a lot of amateur draft experts out there, but drafting is harder than it looks. Sure, it's pretty easy to cherry pick who they should have picked several years later, but at the time of these drafts all teams don't have the ability to predict the future.
This just means Gorapalaolololol will probably suck too.

 
For those clamoring for a non-QB pick in the second round in favor of an immediate impact position player and every down starter, how'd things work out with second round picks G Adrian Clemm, WR Bethel Johnson, DE Marquise Hill (RIP), WR Chad Jackson, CB Terrence Wheatley, NT Ron Brace, CB Darius Butler, S Patrick Chung, LB Jermaine Cunningham, LB Brandon Spikes, and CB Ras-I Dowling? The point being, there seems to be a lot of amateur draft experts out there, but drafting is harder than it looks. Sure, it's pretty easy to cherry pick who they should have picked several years later, but at the time of these drafts all teams don't have the ability to predict the future.
With all due respect, count me among those clamoring for a player who "might" help the team win this year or next. You are making what amounts to a straw man argument; we aren't arguing for an immediate impact player. For the sake of argument lets say there is only a 10% chance a draft pick will turn out to be productive (5 yr starter more or less). What bothers so many of us is that even if they were right, they drafted a player who absolutely cannot help the team win this year or next,It is simple and as complicated as that, if you are equally concerned with 2016 as you are with 2014 then the pick made sense. However, if you feel the team has a hof qb in the twilight of his career and a real shot at winning a sb this year or next, then you are extremely disappointed they selected a player who cannot possibly help them this year or next.

I love the rest of the draft, I just hate taking a player in the 2nd who even if he is the next dan marino, he can't help u this year or next and more likely than not he will sit for 3 years. That is a fn waste, when you consider that they could have taken a player that at least had a chance to help them on offense, defense or special teams this year or next..... Keep in mind how close their sb losses were and how much a crappolo would have helped them sitting on the bench vs someone who might actually play a few snaps.

Its all good, just a difference of opinion on this one ;)
Could we stop with this nonsense?

 
Mhttp://nesn.com/2014/05/jimmy-garoppolo-already-taking-on-leadership-role-among-patriots-rookies/

I think he has a shot of winning the starting job next year if Brady continues to decline.
How much are people saying Brady has declined? Sure, his numbers dropped off . . . but how much of that stems from playing with an almost completely different supporting cast from the year before? By the end of the season, he was throwing to banged up rookies and street free agents. The only healthy and familiar face was Edelman. I would agree to those that say Brady has lost a little zip on his fastball, does not throw the deep ball as well as he used to, and has lost a smidge of accuracy overall, but his skills overall are still solid.

 
12punch said:
NE_REVIVAL said:
For those clamoring for a non-QB pick in the second round in favor of an immediate impact position player and every down starter, how'd things work out with second round picks G Adrian Clemm, WR Bethel Johnson, DE Marquise Hill (RIP), WR Chad Jackson, CB Terrence Wheatley, NT Ron Brace, CB Darius Butler, S Patrick Chung, LB Jermaine Cunningham, LB Brandon Spikes, and CB Ras-I Dowling? The point being, there seems to be a lot of amateur draft experts out there, but drafting is harder than it looks. Sure, it's pretty easy to cherry pick who they should have picked several years later, but at the time of these drafts all teams don't have the ability to predict the future.
With all due respect, count me among those clamoring for a player who "might" help the team win this year or next. You are making what amounts to a straw man argument; we aren't arguing for an immediate impact player. For the sake of argument lets say there is only a 10% chance a draft pick will turn out to be productive (5 yr starter more or less). What bothers so many of us is that even if they were right, they drafted a player who absolutely cannot help the team win this year or next,It is simple and as complicated as that, if you are equally concerned with 2016 as you are with 2014 then the pick made sense. However, if you feel the team has a hof qb in the twilight of his career and a real shot at winning a sb this year or next, then you are extremely disappointed they selected a player who cannot possibly help them this year or next.

I love the rest of the draft, I just hate taking a player in the 2nd who even if he is the next dan marino, he can't help u this year or next and more likely than not he will sit for 3 years. That is a fn waste, when you consider that they could have taken a player that at least had a chance to help them on offense, defense or special teams this year or next..... Keep in mind how close their sb losses were and how much a crappolo would have helped them sitting on the bench vs someone who might actually play a few snaps.

Its all good, just a difference of opinion on this one ;)
Could we stop with this nonsense?
Not sure what your problem is, but how about I ignore your Ryan Mallet for Andre Johnson trade talk and you ignore my criticism of the Carappolo pick?

Seems fair :shrug:

 
Question about the Hernandez cap hit situation.

I thought I heard, read, etc. somewhere awhile back that if it was determined that punk boy was involved with the double murder, via wussbag drive by shooting, that the Patriots cap situation would be much improved...because it happened prior to the big contract deal.

Anyone else know how this will factor in at all...?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/15/major-development-double-murder-boston-allegedly-linked-aaron-hernandez-expected-today/BsgHVHBOWRSb2IGZ50qifK/story.html

 
Question about the Hernandez cap hit situation.

I thought I heard, read, etc. somewhere awhile back that if it was determined that punk boy was involved with the double murder, via wussbag drive by shooting, that the Patriots cap situation would be much improved...because it happened prior to the big contract deal.

Anyone else know how this will factor in at all...?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/15/major-development-double-murder-boston-allegedly-linked-aaron-hernandez-expected-today/BsgHVHBOWRSb2IGZ50qifK/story.html
I don't think cap is a particularly huge issue that would impede the trade, so i wouldn't think the hernandez case would be relevant to the point of contingency.

 
Question about the Hernandez cap hit situation.

I thought I heard, read, etc. somewhere awhile back that if it was determined that punk boy was involved with the double murder, via wussbag drive by shooting, that the Patriots cap situation would be much improved...because it happened prior to the big contract deal.

Anyone else know how this will factor in at all...?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/05/15/major-development-double-murder-boston-allegedly-linked-aaron-hernandez-expected-today/BsgHVHBOWRSb2IGZ50qifK/story.html
Yeah, I remember reading the same thing about potentially getting some of AHs cap money back if he was charged with the 2012 murders. Now he has been charged so maybe that will help put the wheels in motion to reduce some of the cap damage this pog caused.

FWIW, Faust posted the following in the Johnson\Mallet trade rumor thread.

Quote

Patriots salary cap reliefFrom a football management perspective, the Patriots may benefit from today's news. When Hernandez signed a $40 million contract extension in August 2012, his contract reportedly contained language assuring there were no circumstances that would prevent him from meeting his contractual obligations. If Hernandez had already murdered two people by that point, he would have signed the contract in bad faith. The Patriots now have a compelling argument that they owe him no money on the deal and thus should receive associated salary cap relief from the NFL. The team can also demand that Hernandez reimburse the team.
 
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Did Belichek really mock the Colts for not having a good backup and going 1-15? Uh, Bill - the Colts ended up doing just fine with that approach. They ultimately got a generational talent at QB for the next 15 years.

The only strategy that makes sense right now is "Championship or be damned". I don't care that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 because they had a good backup QB. I can't believe so many Pats fans are falling for this bs logic. They absolutely wasted a 2nd round pick this year, plain and simple. And yes, it could cost them a championship. But keep drinking the BB coolaid.
Sure, if you don't mind being the laughing stock of the league for a year.

You seem to be implying that there was a deliberate strategy in place with the specific intention of tanking a season because your organization "knew" that Andrew Luck would be guaranteed to (a) fall in your lap, and (b) will become a "generational talent at QB for the next 15 years". There's a fella up in Seattle who wasn't drafted that high who might disagree with you on that last point.

How much better than Matt Cassel do you suppose Trent Dilfer was?

 
Did Belichek really mock the Colts for not having a good backup and going 1-15? Uh, Bill - the Colts ended up doing just fine with that approach. They ultimately got a generational talent at QB for the next 15 years.

The only strategy that makes sense right now is "Championship or be damned". I don't care that the Pats went 11-5 in 2008 because they had a good backup QB. I can't believe so many Pats fans are falling for this bs logic. They absolutely wasted a 2nd round pick this year, plain and simple. And yes, it could cost them a championship. But keep drinking the BB coolaid.
Because everyone that tanks ends up with Andrew Luck or Peyton Manning. Oh wait no they don't they end up with Tim Couch and Ryan Leaf most of the time.

 
Easley, the more I watch the more I dream of seeing him crack Peyton and chase down Rothlisburger.
Last year the defense didn't get pressure on the QB and didn't have enough CBs that could covergood WRs. They addresed the latter in FA and if Easley is healthy they addressed the former in

the draft. They also get back their two best returning defensive players from injury. They have the potential to be a top 5 defense next year.

Offensively, Dobson has to make that second year leap that a lot of WRs do and Gronk has to somehow stay on the field. Gronk is obviously the biggest question mark

 
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Two biggest holes left...

*Backup TE...if Gronk goes down the position would be invisible as currently constructed...big hole right now...got a few undrafted FA's and development types on the roster...would like to see something more substantial added...they had Keller in for a visit...if healthy he is intriguing...

*LB depth...pretty thin at this position...could use some more depth...a few injuries and this position could be a big issue...

 
. ... great commentary by (I think Mike Reiss on Felger and Mazz today) to the effect:

probably never in the history of the NFL has a team surrounded a sure fire HOF QB with less help around him. SAints. Packers, and Broncos all draft a WR in the 1st 2 rounds.... on and on.

Finally someone that's not a co. guy just touting the mighty Pats. SO what if they have more cap space from Hernandez.... it's what you do with it. Some blame to Brady for being too much a co. guy and not raising hell about it.

 
GordonGekko said:
A back-up qb is a pretty valuable commodity. Mallett will leave sometime soon.
Sadly, the best point was made on Grantland by Bill SImmons' father during a podcast. He said whatever the Patriots do, at least be consistent in one direction.

If the point is to load up for a short term run at a ring, then ok, have all your horses headed that way.

If the point is to consistently be 11-5 every year but just come up short but constantly look 2 years in the future, then ok, have all your horses headed that way.

The Revis and Browner pick ups are completely incongruent strategy wise to the Garrapolo draft pick.

Revis and Browner are "win now" type acquisitions. Jimmy G is a 3 years down the road type investment.

Sadly, Angry Bill is turning into Andy Reid

- Shift to heavy passing offense, at times, to the detriment of establishing a strong running attack.

- Can't develop a WR to save his own life

- Got a productive WR as a bargain ( TO for Reid, Welker for Brady), then wouldn't pay them and watched them walk and be productive elsewhere.

- Draft picks that, without the long standing winning pedigree, would garner way more criticism

- Expanding waistline

- Reliance on defense for early success, then proved unable to reload and rearm said defense in latter years. Appears to have really missed key coordinator ( Reid always needed Johnson, Angry Bill could use a little Crennel now and then, don't you think?)

- Constant neglect of specific positions, sometimes for years at a time ( Remember when Andy Reid just decided he didn't need a fullback but had a playbook that required a fullback?)

- Contract disputes with players that become public and openly adversarial

- Worst of all - Consistently do the things you do well, but also consistently fail at the things you seem to always fail at.

Bill Simmons' dad was right. Pick a direction, either one, but focus your moves to be in line with that direction. If you want to get into an arms race with Denver, then don't chicken out and stop loading bullets and take a project QB1 for 3 years from now.
This is great shtick here, there is no way you or anyone could believe this

 
GordonGekko said:
A back-up qb is a pretty valuable commodity. Mallett will leave sometime soon.
Sadly, the best point was made on Grantland by Bill SImmons' father during a podcast. He said whatever the Patriots do, at least be consistent in one direction.

If the point is to load up for a short term run at a ring, then ok, have all your horses headed that way.

If the point is to consistently be 11-5 every year but just come up short but constantly look 2 years in the future, then ok, have all your horses headed that way.

The Revis and Browner pick ups are completely incongruent strategy wise to the Garrapolo draft pick.

Revis and Browner are "win now" type acquisitions. Jimmy G is a 3 years down the road type investment.

Sadly, Angry Bill is turning into Andy Reid

- Shift to heavy passing offense, at times, to the detriment of establishing a strong running attack.

- Can't develop a WR to save his own life

- Got a productive WR as a bargain ( TO for Reid, Welker for Brady), then wouldn't pay them and watched them walk and be productive elsewhere.

- Draft picks that, without the long standing winning pedigree, would garner way more criticism

- Expanding waistline

- Reliance on defense for early success, then proved unable to reload and rearm said defense in latter years. Appears to have really missed key coordinator ( Reid always needed Johnson, Angry Bill could use a little Crennel now and then, don't you think?)

- Constant neglect of specific positions, sometimes for years at a time ( Remember when Andy Reid just decided he didn't need a fullback but had a playbook that required a fullback?)

- Contract disputes with players that become public and openly adversarial

- Worst of all - Consistently do the things you do well, but also consistently fail at the things you seem to always fail at.

Bill Simmons' dad was right. Pick a direction, either one, but focus your moves to be in line with that direction. If you want to get into an arms race with Denver, then don't chicken out and stop loading bullets and take a project QB1 for 3 years from now.
This is great shtick here, there is no way you or anyone could believe this
I'm not really into the whole messageboard life, but isn't gekko like some kind of character, or something?

the posts always seemed kind of long winded for a messageboard character, to me --- I mean, if you post more than the people replying to you aren't you really just trolling yourself?

or am I just mistaken and it's a real guy?

 
. ... great commentary by (I think Mike Reiss on Felger and Mazz today) to the effect:

probably never in the history of the NFL has a team surrounded a sure fire HOF QB with less help around him. SAints. Packers, and Broncos all draft a WR in the 1st 2 rounds.... on and on.

Finally someone that's not a co. guy just touting the mighty Pats. SO what if they have more cap space from Hernandez.... it's what you do with it. Some blame to Brady for being too much a co. guy and not raising hell about it.
in some ways it can be kind of easy to agree with this, but it's really just overly simplistic, and just not very accurate.

if you remember in 2006 it was kind of annoying to see them leaning on reche caldwell and doug gabriel, and while our defense didn't help us against indy, I think much of the blame in that game has to go to the receivers who probably left covered in bruises from brady beaning them all night.

if they could've held onto the ball one drive we probably win that game.

but like I said, your post is really a pointless mischaracterization.

 
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All you seem able to do is troll on here and attack others posts, if not the poster. And you add nothing. You're the quintessential troll who just feeds off others posts and if they have an opinion that doesn't jive with yours you try to add a snide remark or 2.

Case in point: you claim that if these subpar receivers would've held onto the ball we would've won? ... wow, really??!!.... and I claim (as well as many others) that they, on a whole, have invested in a lot of subpar receivers. You see what I've done there Kool-Aid drinker?

Randy Moss was a flier that turned into gold and got them the lead with a minute and a half left in the SB. He was very good for Brady and therefore the Pats... simple enough for ya?

 
So people really wanted the Pats to draft a WR this year after using two high picks last year to draft Dobson and Boyce? Add in Thompkins and you have three rookie players they invested in last year that should all be better this season. Taking another WR this year would have been a really stupid move.

 
Snickers, I have to disagree that it would have been stupid to draft a WR this year. Look at the packers, they have better more established WRs than we do and they grabbed one. If the value was there, it would have been worth it. I am not saying we needed to for sure, but if a great value was there, I think they should have.

 
They have Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins, LaFell and Slater. They most likely are only carrying 6 WRs so one of the above isn't making the team. Now , I'm not suggesting they are loaded at WR but if they were going to draft another WR this year it would probably have to have been in the first round because what is the point of drafting a mid-round WR? So that they can compete against the ones you drafted last year for a final spot on the roster?

 
They have Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins, LaFell and Slater. They most likely are only carrying 6 WRs so one of the above isn't making the team. Now , I'm not suggesting they are loaded at WR but if they were going to draft another WR this year it would probably have to have been in the first round because what is the point of drafting a mid-round WR? So that they can compete against the ones you drafted last year for a final spot on the roster?
True... but that is part of the problem.. they have Amendola, Edelman, Dobson, Boyce, Thompkins, LaFell and Slater! Thompkins is probably out. Slater is great on special teams.... I don't think an upgrade would be too hard to do, or reach for a top 2,3 TE on the draft board, etc...

We hope Dobson is a lot better, Boyce plays a bigger role, Thompkins.... but they really were pretty awful the 1st 8 games or so last year. That;s part of my point, you have a great QB at 36, 37 and that's what you surround him with? Gronk with a serious ACL/MCL among other things. I think it's a valid criticism.

 
Tom Brady will be 37 this season. Several QBs who had nice careers were done by age 37 or earlier. Bradshaw was done at 34. Joe Montana's last strong season was at age 34. Jim Kelly's last good year was at age 35. Steve McNair was done at age 33. McNabb was done at age 33.

The Patriots need to be ready. One day, Brady will get up and simply not be able to go anymore. Or maybe he will be able to go, but keep getting nagging injuries that are slow to heal like older players get.
warren moon threw for his 5th best yardage total at 41

manning just smashed nfl records at 37

testaverde was still in the league at 44

favre threw for 4200 yds + 33 td at 40

and joe montana, as previously mentioned, actually managed 3300 yds in only 14 games his final year at 38

now compare this pasty specimen

http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/pc/Football+legend+Joe+Montana+cools+off+sea+p2S2sllISo9l.jpg

to this sexy beast

http://www.sportsargumentwiki.com/images/thumb/5/57/Tawm.jpg/501px-Tawm.jpg

I'm not just trying to argue the fact that brady's on the tail end, but I don't see any reason to throw dirt on him prematurely, and I think we can at least enjoy the next couple years before we have to worry about finding a replacement for him and gronk.
I didn't throw dirt on Brady. I'm saying the Patriots need to be ready because at his age he can be done at any time, and no-one knows when its gonna happen.

 
. ... great commentary by (I think Mike Reiss on Felger and Mazz today) to the effect:

probably never in the history of the NFL has a team surrounded a sure fire HOF QB with less help around him. SAints. Packers, and Broncos all draft a WR in the 1st 2 rounds.... on and on.

Finally someone that's not a co. guy just touting the mighty Pats. SO what if they have more cap space from Hernandez.... it's what you do with it. Some blame to Brady for being too much a co. guy and not raising hell about it.
While it does happen on occasion, receivers usually don't come in and dominate. The Saints, Packers and Broncos all took receivers that might be a good compliment to guys like DT, Jordy, Graham, Cobb, Julius, Colston this year. Those guys aren't over taking them. The Patriots already have guys like that with Edelman, Dobson and others, they need a number 1 and where they were drafting they weren't getting one and they didn't have the ammo to go get Watkins or Evans without giving up a future first and more.

 
Easely may pay off huge, but I agree with others that the Garoppolo pick was a missed opportunity -- if we can't trade for a reasonably talented WR before the regular season.

Trading up in the second to grab Sefarian-Jenkins or Amaro could have been exactly the piece we need and instead we have a conditional player.

 
Think a lot of people are really, really looking short term re: Garoppolo and whether he's a "wasted" pick... all it takes is one hit and Brady could be out for the season with Ryan Mallet coming in to start and wasted pick Garoppolo serving as the #2.

Maybe Brady drastically declines next year into the offseason and the Patriots decide to move on from Mallet with Garoppolo, making him the immediate #2. Brady has struggled the last couple seasons, most noticeably with his general accuracy. I can't count how many throws he's made that have been low/aimed at the knees of receivers or just generally been off target and made easy catches into slightly harder ones.

Also not sold that they needed a WR, especially a draft pick and especially in the 2nd Round. Aaron Dobson should improve in his 2nd Year, Josh Boyce was coming off injury heading into his rookie year, and Thompkins was a surprise but could struggle to make this year's squad. Edelman's a reliable option on both the outside and inside in the slot. LaFell has a chance to fill in on the outside as well and offers Brady a bigger target.

They drafted another RB in the Shane Vereen mode and I think New England will try to lean more towards the running game (health pending) and utilized a combo of Vereen/White as aid to help fill in/replace whatever Gronkowski can't deliver and what they lose from routinely having a 3rd/4th WR on the field. I think they went heavy at the OL in the draft partly due to the way the board fell but also to try and boost the interior running game.

 
I think the Garropolo pick in the second round boils down to one thing... BB and the Pats think he is an amazing person who lives and breathes football and also with enough talent to be a pro bowler. There is no other reason to spend a 2nd round pick on a QB. Guys, I think he is the real deal. I did always like him in college.

 
GordonGekko said:
Think a lot of people are really, really looking short term re: Garoppolo and whether he's a "wasted" pick...
Whether Garropolo pans out or not isn't the crux of what I think a lot of people are not happy about.

I think the crux of the matter is that the Revis/Browner moves and several other moves, like the Wilfork reup, are designed for a push, while the Garropolo pick is move built for a team going in a different direction. ( Think about when teams take a QB1 prospect in the 2nd. Pat White, Kaepernick, Dalton, Henne - Teams looking for a starter)

This was also a deep draft. And the NE roster is not so deep that that Garropolo didn't come at some opportunity cost.

It's been TEN YEARS since NE has won a ring. A lot of the problems from losing to the Giants were still evident in the 2nd loss to the Giants and some of those problems are still evident now. Belichick is a great coach, he's made some super saavy moves ( getting Moss and Welker for a song, seeing the trend and grabbing Gronk and Hernandez and then reupping them early before the market reset, getting Rodney Harrison, etc) But on the flip side, there are clearly a lot of areas where he hasn't been successful and it's been long standing issues and I think after a decade, it bears a look.

Sorry but some of the same arguments that are pro Garropolo pick are some of the same arguments made to defend Andy Reid and the Eagles not that long back. People kept pointing to the winning pedigree and the things Reid did well, but ignored the things that clearly were deficient.

Look at the Broncos, right or wrong, they see a limited window and all their horses are lined up to make a push. You could say the Osweiller pick was similar, but it's not, they had no idea about Mannings neck then, and he was an insurance point for them. They still had a year of Mallett left. Now their options are to keep Mallett and Garropolo on the roster, meaning cutting help in another area ( lots of teams don't carry a 3rd QB) on the 53, or losing leverage to trade or get some asset for Mallett this year. If they move Mallett, they will get less for him now than before when they didn't have Garropolo.

Pick a direction, stick with it. I don't see that as much to ask from fans of it's franchise.

There is no one, I mean NO ONE, on that defense where other teams are going to stay up at night and stress out over. There is no Geno Atkins, no Watt, no Clay Matthews, no one where teams have legit fear of the Patriots defense. Maybe Easley is that guy, but he's also a bargain grab ( he's high risk/high reward, there's a reason he fell in the draft)

Playing the odds, the long game, is great for getting to the playoffs. Angry Bill's bargain hunting and trying to max assets is great for regular season and getting to the playoffs. But once in, you need blue chip playmakers to really push hard and challenge as a contender.

Andy Reid had job security too, and in the same way, it was a detriment.

Sorry, I'm not saying Angry Bil and Reid are copy clones, but I am saying a coach who has started to lose touch often falls into many of the same trends as other long time coaches who might get a little too comfortable and have a record of not being able to improve certain areas. ( I think you can put Cowher and Fisher in this area too, to a certain degree)
Seriously 2 tries at it? No one is biting.

 
I think the Garropolo pick in the second round boils down to one thing... BB and the Pats think he is an amazing person who lives and breathes football and also with enough talent to be a pro bowler. There is no other reason to spend a 2nd round pick on a QB. Guys, I think he is the real deal. I did always like him in college.
Likely the case, but I still feel justified being disappointed.

Feel really good about this season though, if last years rookies improve at all and the half of the team that was injured returns to form I think they're in great shape to make a run for it.

 
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GordonGekko said:
There is no one, I mean NO ONE, on that defense where other teams are going to stay up at night and stress out over. There is no Geno Atkins, no Watt, no Clay Matthews, no one where teams have legit fear of the Patriots defense. Maybe Easley is that guy, but he's also a bargain grab ( he's high risk/high reward, there's a reason he fell in the draft)
You get a bad rap, but sometimes I think you make a lot of sense. This is not one of those times.
 
Our job is to root for them go for it, future be damned. That's not Belichick's job. He knows it. It's frustrating as a fan, but I don't blame him for declining to 100% "go all in" and let the future of the franchise (in his opinion) rot. I'm sure fans have been urging him to "go all in" and talking about the "window" for 5+ years now.

 
This one stings: 2010 draft. Pats trade down, Broncos use that pick to get Demaryius Thomas. The Cowboys then grab Dez Bryant... Pats get McCourty. Meh.

 
GordonGekko said:
There is no one, I mean NO ONE, on that defense where other teams are going to stay up at night and stress out over. There is no Geno Atkins, no Watt, no Clay Matthews, no one where teams have legit fear of the Patriots defense. Maybe Easley is that guy, but he's also a bargain grab ( he's high risk/high reward, there's a reason he fell in the draft)
Clearly it's going to be a walk in the park dealing with Revis, Browner, Wilfork, Kelly and Easley.

 
Our job is to root for them go for it, future be damned. That's not Belichick's job. He knows it. It's frustrating as a fan, but I don't blame him for declining to 100% "go all in" and let the future of the franchise (in his opinion) rot. I'm sure fans have been urging him to "go all in" and talking about the "window" for 5+ years now.
They have been saying the window is closing for the Patriots since 2006 when they lost to the Colts in the AFC title game and all the Patriots do is win divisions, and compete for Super Bowls every year.

 
GordonGekko said:
There is no one, I mean NO ONE, on that defense where other teams are going to stay up at night and stress out over. There is no Geno Atkins, no Watt, no Clay Matthews, no one where teams have legit fear of the Patriots defense. Maybe Easley is that guy, but he's also a bargain grab ( he's high risk/high reward, there's a reason he fell in the draft)
Clearly it's going to be a walk in the park dealing with Revis, Browner, Wilfork, Kelly and Easley.
And also don't forget a healthy Jerod Mayo... I'll be stunned if New England goes 10-6 with such a patty cake walk over defense.

 
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