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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (1 Viewer)

Dr. Dan said:
They haven't been active at all in FA so far. Mariota, whom BB really liked at the time he was drafted, they didnt even seem to sniff at. 

IMO this is a huge vote of confidence for Stidham. Personally though, I was hoping for Mariota as he's basically a backup and not much competition. Bridgewater would be a bigger threat. Dalton would be basically Mariota. 

The Stidham era is about to begin
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They haven’t been active with other team’s free agents, but they brought back both McCourtys, Thuney, and Slater. Beyond that, they have very little cap room. By my math, they are in the $4-5 million range for available cap space. 

 
Totally out-of-left-field prediction...Pats draft Jalen Hurts with their #1 (or trade for Love)...when McDaniels left the Pats he was actually a little ahead of where the QB curve was heading although obviously he took the wrong guy...Pats totally revamp their offense and let Hurts and Stidham battle it out in camp...BB now starts a rebuild and can do it with a QB making small money...I would not bet a dime on this happening but I do feel they are going to be playing a different style of offense now that Brady is gone. 

 
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Dr. Dan said:
This is great news for my Stidham shares.

It's all coming together perfectly...  [in my best Mr. Burns voice]: excellent...
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Hate to burst your bubble, but Stidham still has the same players to throw to as Brady did (at least for now).  I doubt Stidham is close to being a fantasy starter next season (but ranking in the Top 12 as a first year starter is a high bar).

 
Dr. Dan said:
Not looking for him to be a top 12 QB. I'll take a fantasy emergency qb3. He has a chance to grow. Harry to make some strides, Sanu is still there. Everyone healthy. The cupboard isn't bare. I don't expect record setting years but NE should be >.500
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Call me in September around Opening Day (if it even is in September).  There could be two dozen roster moves by then to have any idea what NE will look like. And if Sanu doesn’t look better than last year, NE may opt for his $6.5 million in cap room over him. 

 
Could it be they have their eyes set on the 2021 class of QB's?  Perhaps starting Stidham positions them the best to get the one they are after...

 
Maven25 said:
Could it be they have their eyes set on the 2021 class of QB's?  Perhaps starting Stidham positions them the best to get the one they are after...
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I heard this theory discussed a few weeks ago. The logic was they would tank this year in order to get a high draft pick next year. The counter argument was a BB coached team was never going to tank. So even with a middle of the road team next year, they wouldn’t get close enough to the top of the draft to get the premier QB coming out. 

So I don’t think the intent now is to get someone in 2021, but if Stidham doesn’t look like the real deal that idea may evolve. 

 
BigSteelThrill said:
BB aint playing to lose.
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Anarchy99 said:
I heard this theory discussed a few weeks ago. The logic was they would tank this year in order to get a high draft pick next year. The counter argument was a BB coached team was never going to tank. So even with a middle of the road team next year, they wouldn’t get close enough to the top of the draft to get the premier QB coming out. 

So I don’t think the intent now is to get someone in 2021, but if Stidham doesn’t look like the real deal that idea may evolve. 
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While I think this is true of BB, perhaps times are changing.  With Tom Brady out, it could be causing a ripple effect, change of strategy.  I'm not saying it's probable, just that it's possible.  I think Anarchy nailed it pretty well.  They'll see if Stidham has what it takes, and depending how things are going, strategies may change.

 
Anarchy99 said:
I heard this theory discussed a few weeks ago. The logic was they would tank this year in order to get a high draft pick next year. The counter argument was a BB coached team was never going to tank. So even with a middle of the road team next year, they wouldn’t get close enough to the top of the draft to get the premier QB coming out. 

So I don’t think the intent now is to get someone in 2021, but if Stidham doesn’t look like the real deal that idea may evolve. 
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It is only one move but if they were gonna tank (and I don't think that is in BB's DNA) I don't think they would have brought back McCourty...the $1,000,000 question (and if anyone says they know the answer they are full of BS) is what do they truly think of Stidham...do they see him as the definitive heir apparent, a prospect like Jimmy G who needs time to develop or a warm body who simply knows their system...as free agency, the trade market and the draft unfold we will get more clues about this...do they go after a veteran like Dalton, bring in a reclamation project like Trubisky, use a #1 on a QB like Love or Hurts or wait till later rounds in the draft and take someone like Fromm...even if they love Stidham you gotta believe they bring in another viable QB to compete with him.

 
How much would it cost to get Taysom Hill? Could see the Pats doing something like getting him.

 
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Boston said:
It is only one move but if they were gonna tank (and I don't think that is in BB's DNA) I don't think they would have brought back McCourty...the $1,000,000 question (and if anyone says they know the answer they are full of BS) is what do they truly think of Stidham...do they see him as the definitive heir apparent, a prospect like Jimmy G who needs time to develop or a warm body who simply knows their system...as free agency, the trade market and the draft unfold we will get more clues about this...do they go after a veteran like Dalton, bring in a reclamation project like Trubisky, use a #1 on a QB like Love or Hurts or wait till later rounds in the draft and take someone like Fromm...even if they love Stidham you gotta believe they bring in another viable QB to compete with him.
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All I feel comfortable in discussing is the here and now. To trade for Dalton, they would need $17.7M in cap room, which is $13M more than they have currently. They won’t be able to acquire any veteran starter unless it is someone with no market. That’s why a part of me has thought for months that they might be in on Alex Smith if he were to get released by the Redskins. 

The nail in the coffin for Brady was when NE tagged Thuney. It was either him or Brady in terms of cap space. Drafting a QB makes more financial sense then signing a veteran at market rate. If the Pats dip into free agent waters it will be after the compensatory pick window ends and when there is someone still unsigned that is desperate. Who knows. Even Kaepernick  might come into play if he accepted a low dollar deal (although I don’t think that would be a great plan). 

As for Stidham, while no one can possibly know how we would do and what the team truly thinks of him, they just let the GOAT of all time walk. So they either think he can be a legit starter or they have another plan up their sleeve (a plan which doesn’t appear all that clear at the moment).  

I have read several places that NE may not really look at QB options until May. That pretty much aligns with what I mentioned above. The other issue is with no practices allowed until July, it will be even more difficult for any new QBs to learn playbooks this offseason. 

As a side note, I wish sports media would at least glance at each team’s salary cap situation when they start writing articles. I have already seen multiple who replaces Brady articles and it’s like reporters have never heard of the salary cap. 

 
cloppbeast said:
How much would it cost to get Taysom Hill? Could see the Pats doing something like getting him.
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Hill is 30, due $4.6 million, and is signed through this year. I had seen that the Saints would likely extend him once Brees resigns and Bridgewater moves on. But the numbers would work salary wise if the Saints were amenable to trading him. 

 
Boston said:
Probably a #1 as well...
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Really? For a guy that was claimed off waivers and has had 15 career passing attempts (including playoffs) and under 100 other touches in 3 seasons? That seems too high.

Brees just resigned (as expected) for 2 years and $50 million.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Hill is 30, due $4.6 million, and is signed through this year. I had seen that the Saints would likely extend him once Brees resigns and Bridgewater moves on. But the numbers would work salary wise if the Saints were amenable to trading him. 
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Didn't they put a first round transition tag on him?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
Didn't they put a first round transition tag on him?
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Yes. I just went over this. IMO, that just means the Saints want to keep him. If another team were to want to give up their first (which I don't expect), the Saints would likely be happy to let him go for that. Guess we'll find out . . .

 
Anarchy99 said:
Yes. I just went over this. IMO, that just means the Saints want to keep him. If another team were to want to give up their first (which I don't expect), the Saints would likely be happy to let him go for that. Guess we'll find out . . .
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No one will. He's valuable to the Saints in his role - but he is not a starting QB.

 
ZWK said:
What about Thuney for Dalton?
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They certainly could do that, although I wonder if that would actually help the offense. If we go farther down the rabbit hole, NE could try to extend him for low dollars, but do they really want to hitch their wagon to Andy Dalton for multiple years. 

 
Anarchy99 said:
They certainly could do that, although I wonder if that would actually help the offense. If we go farther down the rabbit hole, NE could try to extend him for low dollars, but do they really want to hitch their wagon to Andy Dalton for multiple years. 
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If they want Dalton they can find a way to clear some cap space without trading away a starting G, I would think.

 
As a side note, as much as a bummer it is for Brady to be moving on, it makes the Patriots a way more interesting team to follow and watch this season.

 
Boston said:
If he were 24 or 25 I could see a team potentially rolling the dice on him but he is 30 years old which really limits his value.
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Yep. he's 30 with like 19 career passing attempts - and from the few I've seen he doesn't look like a QB. The Saints will have to change up their offense if he needs to play.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
If they want Dalton they can find a way to clear some cap space without trading away a starting G, I would think.
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Who knows if the numbers I have seen are correct, but they would need to free up $13 million in cap space to acquire Dalton (unless they trade salary to the Bengals or get the Bengals to contribute to his salary). I suppose they could also see if Dalton gets cut and then they could give him a low dollar, incentive driven deal.

 
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Martin Fry - ABC  (1983)

They persuade you
that they made you,

then betray you,
and they blame you.

with the power of persuasion
The power of persuasion

 
Anarchy99 said:
As a side note, as much as a bummer it is for Brady to be moving on, it makes the Patriots a way more interesting team to follow and watch this season.
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I mean they're going to be worse, not sure about more interesting. Seems like they've just lost some key defensive guys in addition to Brady.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Who knows if the numbers I have seen are correct, but they would need to free up $13 million in cap space to acquire Dalton (unless they trade salary to the Bengals or get the Bengals to contribute to his salary). I suppose they could also see if Dalton gets cut and then they could give him a low dollar, incentive driven deal.
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They also might be trading salary to the bengals from whatever player they give up.

 
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Tool said:
I mean they're going to be worse, not sure about more interesting. Seems like they've just lost some key defensive guys in addition to Brady.
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Like every other year, we won't know what they will look like until September. They lose guys every off season, and every off season people are quick to suggest how much worse they will be. IMO, losing Brady may not be a huge loss (as I think he is smack dab in average QB-ville these days). With better health and shoring up some spots, NE should be ok. They aren't a SB contender (but they wouldn't be even if Brady was still there). Put another way, I would still give BB a fighting chance with half a roster of UDFAs or castaways against probably 25 other coaches.

We will have to see what the fallout is . . . will veterans no longer want to go to NE with Brady no longer there? Or would they feel that with BB the Pats could build a team to be in position to make another run after this season?

 
Boston said:
Totally out-of-left-field prediction...Pats draft Jalen Hurts with their #1 (or trade for Love)...when McDaniels left the Pats he was actually a little ahead of where the QB curve was heading although obviously he took the wrong guy...Pats totally revamp their offense and let Hurts and Stidham battle it out in camp...BB now starts a rebuild and can do it with a QB making small money...I would not bet a dime on this happening but I do feel they are going to be playing a different style of offense now that Brady is gone. 
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I was thinking the same, tbh. Just out of left field enough to be a BB move, honestly.

Totally agree with @Anarchy99 that the 2020 season will be very interesting with Brady gone, little cap space to sign any premium QB, and a second year late round QB as the defacto starter (though it's only March)... pretty wild and should be fun to follow.

 
Now is the time for the Patriots to rebuild and finally try to become a competitive franchise. Perhaps that long elusive Super Bowl dream will come true in future seasons. We're all pulling for them.

 
Here is the updated NE cap situation with Brady moving on. Devin McCourty signed a 2 year, $23 million contract, with a $10.75 million signing bonus and $17 million guaranteed. It looks like there is either an option year or a dummy year, as some of that is spread out over a third season. His recorded cap hit listed for 2010 is only $5.4 million. Essentially, they are writing a salary cap IOU for future seasons. So according to Spotrac, that leaves NE with $8.9 million in current cap space. Possible ways to create more cap room.

- Cut Sanu ($6.5 million in cap and actual savings)
- Cut Gostkowski (eat $1.4 million in dead cap to free up $4.9 million  . . . would net $3.5 million in cap room)
- Trade Thuney ($14.7 million in cap and actual savings)
- Cut Hightower (eat $2.5 million in dead cap to free up $11.3 million . . . would create $8.8 million in cap space, although more likely suited to rework contract)
- Rework / extend Gilmore ($18.6 million cap hit set for this season)
- Rework Cannon ($8.9 million cap hit set for this season)
- Extend White (last year of deal . . . $4.6 million cap charge)
- Move on from Burkhead (eat $1 million cap hit to free up $3.9 million . . . would create $2.9 million in cap space)
- Extend Harmon (last year of deal . . . $5.5 million cap charge)

Those are the ways to create the most cap space. There are cheaper players beyond that they could save smaller amounts by cutting. extending, or reworking contracts.

Resetting the Patriots draft picks, they currently possess the following 12 draft picks for 2020: 23, 87, 98, 100, 125, 195, 204, 212, 213, 230, 235, and 241.

Looking ahead to next year, even though free agency hasn't officially started yet, NE would be positioned for compensatory draft picks for Brady, Van Noy, and Collins (at a minimum they would get credit for those players as net player losses in the pick formula). I have seen Brady as a candidate to earn back a 3rd round compensatory pick, but I am not sure he qualifies at that level (as a 10 year veteran he many only be eligible at a 5th round max . . . but I am not 100% sure about that).

As for actual draft capital, I believe NE has 1,2,3,4,5,6,6,7,7 picks for next year available.

 
Not surprisingly, the torch and pitchfork brigade is in full force in the media in Boston since yesterday. I don't know what to believe, so bear that in mind. Some people are reporting that TB has wanted out for awhile and REALLY wanted out since last year when he took the franchise tag out of play. There are conflicting reports over what happened last year, as some people are saying NE offered Brady a multi-year deal and he said no. Others are still suggesting Brady was the one that wanted a multi-year contract and NE said no.

The rumblings today are that Brady told NE he was leaving a long time ago and there wasn't much talk among the principals involved at all. Apparently there are some who paint the picture as Tom saying I'm outta here and that was that. In many ways it was a divorce. I don't think BB wanted him there, TB didn't want to be there, and they parted ways. I read this morning the bottom line was if TB wanted to be in NE, he'd be in NE and the Patriots would have made an effort to bring him back. But allegedly Tom said he wanted out so NE backed off and made little to no effort to convince him to stay.

The talking heads and writers are busy today rehashing who's to blame, and I don't really think that fits the profile. Like Gronk, Brady was not happy and had grown tired of the stranglehold BB has had on everything and everyone. IMO, BLAME should not even enter into the equation for a team that went to 9 SB's and won 6 of them.

Neither side is wrong. You can't blame Brady for being unhappy. And you can't blame BB for not wanting to give a 43-year-old QB a multi-year deal at $30 million a year. In today's NFL, Brady limits what an offense can do. There is no doubt he did great with what he had to work with, but BB tried to build a complete team from year to year. As much as Brady wanted more weapons, NE won their titles in years when their defense was near the top of the league. The years when they had killer offenses and weaker defenses, they may have won regular season games, but they didn't win titles. In what should have been Brady's peak window they didn't win. They went 10 years without a title in the prime of TB's career, which realistically is the most surprising thing in all of this.

We will continue to see opinions and articles how BB and Kraft messed this up and how dare they let Tom play in another uniform. In the end, I think it's best for the team to move on from Brady ,and it's best for Brady to move on from the team. Sure, it would have been nice to watch Brady and NE ride it out together, but much sooner than later Brady is going to start looking his age. I am sure there are plenty of people (myself included) that would have preferred that Brady retired, but that's not how it turned out. Brady's dad may end up being right . . . things ultimately could end badly for Tom (with his career ending on a bad injury). Let's hope that doesn't happen.

Now that Brady is gone, the next item on the naysayer's checklist is how stupid NE was for not keeping Jimmy G. This has been hashed out many times and in the interest of not wasting more time, that wasn't an option as they couldn't keep both TB and JG on the same roster. By many accounts, BB would have kept JG but they stuck with TB instead. They went to two SB's after trading Garoppolo, and who knows how things would have turned out had they stuck with JG.

Ultimately when the dust settles, I think BB will have made the right decision in not giving Brady the contract that the Buccaneers are going to give him. After 45 years of coaching, BB still knows how to coach and he's been the best there ever was at managing the salary cap. For those panicking and wondering how NE could proceed without a secession plan at QB post-Brady, all I can say is those people don't know BB. They have a plan. They always have a plan. And a Plan B. And a Plan C. That's how BB is.

Granted, it remains to be seen if that plan will work out, but I don't see the Patriots winning only 4 or 5 games like some folks are predicting / hoping / projecting. I have heard BB interviewed many times, and IMO he will coach another 5 years. He used to say he wouldn't coach as an old man, but when it comes up he has indicated he enjoys it more than ever, especially with some of the players and personalities they have had in recent years. He also said he doesn't have many other interests he likes enough to want to stop coaching, so I think he will stick around. Don't kid yourself, he will be extra motivated to win without Brady, and even with a weaker roster (if that's what they end up with), he could still out coach 25 other coaches in the league.

The sky is falling crowd will once again point to all the free agents that are going to get signed the next few days and will again call for BB's head. But Bill is going to be Bill, and they aren't going to make a splash in free agency (especially without any cap room). So history will show that NE let the GOAT walk . . . and filled his roster spot with WR and special teamer Damiere Byrd (formerly of the Cardinals). That is such a Bill Belichick move I can't even begin to describe it.

So a toast to the greatest run and the best QB-coach combo in history. In many ways, it's on par with the break between Lennon and McCartney and the end of The Beatles. BB and TB will always be joined at the hip, and anything they do apart moving forward won't change what they accomplished together.

:banned:

 
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A

Anarchy99 said:
Not surprisingly, the torch and pitchfork brigade is in full force in the media in Boston since yesterday. I don't know what to believe, so bear that in mind. Some people are reporting that TB has wanted out for awhile and REALLY wanted out since last year when he took the franchise tag out of play. There are conflicting reports over what happened last year, as some people are saying NE offered Brady a multi-year deal and he said no. Others are still suggesting Brady was the one that wanted a multi-year contract and NE said no.

The rumblings today are that Brady told NE he was leaving a long time ago and there wasn't much talk among the principals involved at all. Apparently there are some who paint the picture as Tom saying I'm outta here and that was that. In many ways it was a divorce. I don't think BB wanted him there, TB didn't want to be there, and they parted ways. I read this morning the bottom line was if TB wanted to be in NE, he'd be in NE and the Patriots would have made an effort to bring him back. But allegedly Tom said he wanted out so NE backed off and made little to no effort to convince him to stay.

The talking heads and writers are busy today rehashing who's to blame, and I don't really think that fits the profile. Like Gronk, Brady was not happy and had grown tired of the stranglehold BB has had on everything and everyone. IMO, BLAME should not even enter into the equation for a team that went to 9 SB's and won 6 of them.

Neither side is wrong. You can't blame Brady for being unhappy. And you can't blame BB for not wanting to give a 43-year-old QB a multi-year deal at $30 million a year. In today's NFL, Brady limits what an offense can do. There is no doubt he did great with what he had to work with, but BB tried to build a complete team from year to year. As much as Brady wanted more weapons, NE won their titles in years when their defense was near the top of the league. The years when they had killer offenses and weaker defenses, they may have won regular season games, but they didn't win titles. In what should have been Brady's peak window they didn't win. They went 10 years without a title in the prime of TB's career, which realistically is the most surprising thing in all of this.

We will continue to see opinions and articles how BB and Kraft messed this up and how dare they let Tom play in another uniform. In the end, I think it's best for the team to move on from Brady ,and it's best for Brady to move on from the team. Sure, it would have been nice to watch Brady and NE ride it out together, but much sooner than later Brady is going to start looking his age. I am sure there are plenty of people (myself included) that would have preferred that Brady retired, but that's not how it turned out. Brady's dad may end up being right . . . things ultimately could end badly for Tom (with his career ending on a bad injury). Let's hope that doesn't happen.

Now that Brady is gone, the next item on the naysayer's checklist is how stupid NE was for not keeping Jimmy G. This has been hashed out many times and in the interest of not wasting more time, that wasn't an option as they couldn't keep both TB and JG on the same roster. By many accounts, BB would have kept JG but they stuck with TB instead. They went to two SB's after trading Garoppolo, and who knows how things would have turned out had they stuck with JG.

Ultimately when the dust settles, I think BB will have made the right decision in not giving Brady the contract that the Buccaneers are going to give him. After 45 years of coaching, BB still knows how to coach and he's been the best there ever was at managing the salary cap. For those panicking and wondering how NE could proceed without a secession plan at QB post-Brady, all I can say is those people don't know BB. They have a plan. They always have a plan. And a Plan B. And a Plan C. That's how BB is.

Granted, it remains to be seen if that plan will work out, but I don't see the Patriots winning only 4 or 5 games like some folks are predicting / hoping / projecting. I have heard BB interviewed many times, and IMO he will coach another 5 years. He used to say he wouldn't coach as an old man, but when it comes up he has indicated he enjoys it more than ever, especially with some of the players and personalities they have had in recent years. He also said he doesn't have many other interests he likes enough to want to stop coaching, so I think he will stick around. Don't kid yourself, he will be extra motivated to win without Brady, and even with a weaker roster (if that's what they end up with), he could still out coach 25 other coaches in the league.

The sky is falling crowd will once again point to all the free agents that are going to get signed the next few days and will again call for BB's head. But Bill is going to be Bill, and they aren't going to make a splash in free agency (especially without any cap room). So history will show that NE let the GOAT walk . . . and filled his roster spot with WR and special teamer Damiere Byrd (formerly of the Cardinals). That is such a Bill Belichick move I can't even begin to describe it.

So a toast to the greatest run in and the best QB-coach combo in history. In many ways, it's on par with the break between Lennon and McCartney and the end of The Beatles. BB and TB will always be joined at the hip, and anything they do apart moving forward won't change what they accomplished together.

:banned:
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Dead on...I think there are two crowds that will be most upset by this...one, media types like Felger and that complete fool Adam Jones who were gonna criticize whatever happened here because they have decided to earn a living based on the premise that Boston sports can do no right regardless of how much success any team has...the second (and largest) one is the pink hat brigade...this crew of bandwagoners have limited sports knowledge and only pay attention when the they feel like they are missing out on something...this crew has no idea who Matt Light, Daniel Graham or Duron Harmon is so the thought of TB12 not being here frightens them...the "real" fans understand that the fact this went on for 20 years and 6 titles is beyond unrealistic...that just doesn't happen, it is a sports fan's wet dream...to say we were blessed by this is just scratching the surface...for a city that has known mega-all time greats like Ted Williams, Red Auerbach, Bill Russell, Larry Bird, David Ortiz and especially Bobby Orr as well as another sports dynasty in the Celtics the true fans understand what you have just noted...be thankful it lasted far longer then it had any right to and be excited to see what BB can do in this next chapter of Pats history...it will never be the same without Brady but I feel pretty comfortable that the days of Zeke Mowatt, Tommy Hodson and Rod Rust aren't coming back either.

 
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