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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (9 Viewers)

Danny Shelton signs with Detroit...so far they have lost Brady, Collins, Van Noys, Karras and Shelton to free agency and Harmon via trade

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/28920988/lions-agree-2-year-deal-danny-shelton
Stidham takes over for Brady. I will take abuse for this, but that could actually be an upgrade (not saying it ill, only suggesting it could).
Andrews takes back his center position where he excelled previously. That would be an upgrade (if he can still play).
Shelton (48% of snaps) and Harmon (67%) were decent pieces. But they had more DB's than they could play last season.
Collins and Van Noy will be tough to replace.

But this is where NE usually is the opening of free agency. The main difference is now Brady is one of the dearly departed.

 
Stidham takes over for Brady. I will take abuse for this, but that could actually be an upgrade (not saying it ill, only suggesting it could).
Andrews takes back his center position where he excelled previously. That would be an upgrade (if he can still play).
Shelton (48% of snaps) and Harmon (67%) were decent pieces. But they had more DB's than they could play last season.
Collins and Van Noy will be tough to replace.

But this is where NE usually is the opening of free agency. The main difference is now Brady is one of the dearly departed.
It is not just the main difference...it is the difference...Brady's play and salary allowed BB the GM to have flexibility that probably no other GM has ever had...he also had a ton of players willing to come here on cut-rate deals because #12 was the QB...that may not be the case anymore...I don't expect BB to totally revamp how he does things (and he shouldn't) but I also don't think it is business as usual...it is a new era.

 
It is not just the main difference...it is the difference...Brady's play and salary allowed BB the GM to have flexibility that probably no other GM has ever had...he also had a ton of players willing to come here on cut-rate deals because #12 was the QB...that may not be the case anymore...I don't expect BB to totally revamp how he does things (and he shouldn't) but I also don't think it is business as usual...it is a new era.
Clearly life starts anew without Brady. The only thing I think gets a little overblown is "how little" Brady played for. Along the way, he opted for big upfront signing bonuses and would also convert salary to bonuses . . . making his actual yearly salary way lower than most quarterbacks. But his cap hits were way higher than his salary. At one point in one of the NE threads we (the figurative we) went over Brady's career and compensation vs. his peers. Over his 20 year career, I believe his actual "discount" worked out to $3 or 4 million a year. That certainly is nice to have to add a decent back up player or role player on the roster somewhere, but it is not the $15-20 million perceived savings each year that some folks talk about.

 
How does this affect the running game? Burkhead a cap cut possibly as has been discussed for awhile? White downgraded it seems.

Any room open up for Damien Harris with a new look offense? 

Or same old relatively useless fantasy backfield ?

 
How does this affect the running game? Burkhead a cap cut possibly as has been discussed for awhile? White downgraded it seems.

Any room open up for Damien Harris with a new look offense? 

Or same old relatively useless fantasy backfield ?
Too soon to tell until we get a better idea of what they are going to do roster wise.

 
I did chuckle at Rex Ryan today, who thinks NE made a huge mistake in letting Brady walk. His argument was the Pats were 12-4 and a win against MIA from earning a bye . . . and the guy that did that just walked out the door.

His other argument was bringing up the game in 2016 against Ryan's Bills when Buffalo won in NE 18-0. But he left out the part that NE was on their third string QB with Brady suspended and Jimmy G hurt. Jacoby Brissett tore ligaments in his throwing thumb and could barely hold onto the football that game. But THAT'S what we can expect from the Patriots offense without Brady.

 
Things looking good in the comp department
I am not totally sure, but I think the most NE can get is a 5th rounder for Brady (veteran with more than 10 years in the league). And a team can only get a max of 4 comp picks.

 
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The day after, i'm pretty much feeling the same about Brady as i did the day before. A little sorrowful, a little relieved, no regrets. TB12 had earned the right to do whatever he wanted here or elsewhere. If he had made the slightest noise about genuinely wanting to close his career in New England, i woulda been pissed if they hadn't let him.  I'm also OK with BB not begging him to close it out here, because it keeps him true to what makes him great, too. Brady seemed to want to the blush of new experience, to be the belle of the ball somewhere else before it was all said and done more than to prove he could do it without the system. Belichick will be just as engaged in solving the problems of the post-Brady era as he would have been in putting the best team on the field, with the greatest possible plan & preparation, if Tommy had stayed. I have nothing in common with most Patriots fans because i was there for the 20 years Boston didn't want them and will be interested to see how faithful or fair-weather they become in the aftermath. The ball gets hiked, we score or dont, stop them or dont and we have considered every contingency in helping the best possible result occur. That's all i care about.

 
Watching Early Edition and am marking down their prediction for next year. Brady in TB will get the Bucs +4 or +5 wins. So 11-12 wins. NE without Brady will mean -6 or -7 wins. So 5 or 6 wins. Will check back in January. 

 
Watching Early Edition and am marking down their prediction for next year. Brady in TB will get the Bucs +4 or +5 wins. So 11-12 wins. NE without Brady will mean -6 or -7 wins. So 5 or 6 wins. Will check back in January. 
Latest super bowl odds for both teams I saw was 20-1

 
Nate Ebner to the Giants. Will be interesting to see how they rebuild the team, seeing how they are having a mass exodus.

 
Anarchy99 said:
Nate Ebner to the Giants. Will be interesting to see how they rebuild the team, seeing how they are having a mass exodus.
You know this one probably killed BB...Ebner was one of his binkies...the way they are going giving up that #2 for Sanu is not looking so good...they are hitting a bit of a reset button and they could really use that pick.

 
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Anarchy99 said:
Watching Early Edition and am marking down their prediction for next year. Brady in TB will get the Bucs +4 or +5 wins. So 11-12 wins. NE without Brady will mean -6 or -7 wins. So 5 or 6 wins. Will check back in January. 
:lmao:

 
With TB12 gone there is only one man who can save us ...bring back Ray Ventrone...Patriot nation turns it lonely eyes to you!

 
Pats sign S Adrian Phillips formerly of the Chargers to a two year deal. His was first team All Pro in 2018 but spent most of last year on IR with a broken arm. Can also play LB and special teams. No financials available yet. 

 
Pats sign S Adrian Phillips formerly of the Chargers to a two year deal. His was first team All Pro in 2018 but spent most of last year on IR with a broken arm. Can also play LB and special teams. No financials available yet. 
Even though Harmon is gone the fact this guy can play LB means he could be more of a potential Chung replacement.

 
Pats sign S Adrian Phillips formerly of the Chargers to a two year deal. His was first team All Pro in 2018 but spent most of last year on IR with a broken arm. Can also play LB and special teams. No financials available yet. 
Sounds like someone that can cover TE's and RB's .... much needed.

Still several holes to fill tho.

 
Can't say that I am surprised that BB is still getting flamed in the media for not bringing back TB12. Like beaten and bloodied. No one seems to point out that BB has coached in 10 Super Bowls and probably knows what he is doing. The huge majority of ex-Pats players over the years that moved on were not as productive elsewhere as they were in NE. Clearly people that have watched football for 20 years are better informed than someone that has coached it for 45 years.

I get it, Brady is a unicorn and all comparisons to anyone else in the past don't really apply. No doubt he has accomplished plenty. But I have heard discussions wondering if Tampa should be a co-favorite with the Chiefs to win the SB and that NE is now in the running for the top draft pick in 2021. Skip Bayless predicts 12 wins and Tampa representing the NFC in the SB this year AND next year. Have people gone mad? Oh wait . . . I forgot that toilet paper is now considered a rare commodity and hoarded by the masses. Never mind.

 
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I am sure people don't really always mean what they say, but after listening to the fall of the house of NE over and over again the last couple of days, one thing that stuck out to me was the louder talking heads calling the NE defense trash, way overrated, and one of the worst in the league over the second half of the season.

That prompted me to look things up (not that it mattes much as the defense will look a lot different next year). The Patriots defense ranked 9th in points allowed over their final 8 games. Against the Titans in the playoffs, they allowed 14 points (before Brady threw a pick 6 with seconds to go). Put another way, in Games 9-16 they allowed fewer points than SFO (-44), SEA (-38), HOU (-33), TEN (-32), NOS (-21), and MIN (-7), all teams that made the playoffs.

Injuries and an offense that couldn't move the ball were the main problems. I still think the defense will ultimately be a strength . . . and we will have to see what they do to improve the offense.

 
I posted in the Brady thread that rumors swirling today were that BB, Brady, and SF had agreed to a trade and Kraft nixed it and Jimmy G. got inserted in the deal instead. Apparently TB wanted out long ago. That was in 2017 and fractured the relationship of TB, BB, and Kraft. Allegedly. 

 
NE now sitting with $10 million in cap space for 2020. But $114 million in cap space for 2021.

😱
It will be beyond interesting to see how they use that $114...due to some subpar drafting there really isn’t too much on the current roster you have to use it on...there a few guys like JC Jackson iwho will deserve a nice bump but next offseason is one they should be real active.

 
It will be beyond interesting to see how they use that $114...due to some subpar drafting there really isn’t too much on the current roster you have to use it on...there a few guys like JC Jackson iwho will deserve a nice bump but next offseason is one they should be real active.
Which brings up an interesting hypothetical. If the 2020 season never happens, would 2021 start fresh or would they honor everything as if it were 2020? Would there be another draft? Another round of free agency? Another round of compensatory picks?

 
Which brings up an interesting hypothetical. If the 2020 season never happens, would 2021 start fresh or would they honor everything as if it were 2020? Would there be another draft? Another round of free agency? Another round of compensatory picks?
It would get very complicated very fast

 
I am sure people don't really always mean what they say, but after listening to the fall of the house of NE over and over again the last couple of days, one thing that stuck out to me was the louder talking heads calling the NE defense trash, way overrated, and one of the worst in the league over the second half of the season.

That prompted me to look things up (not that it mattes much as the defense will look a lot different next year). The Patriots defense ranked 9th in points allowed over their final 8 games. Against the Titans in the playoffs, they allowed 14 points (before Brady threw a pick 6 with seconds to go). Put another way, in Games 9-16 they allowed fewer points than SFO (-44), SEA (-38), HOU (-33), TEN (-32), NOS (-21), and MIN (-7), all teams that made the playoffs.

Injuries and an offense that couldn't move the ball were the main problems. I still think the defense will ultimately be a strength . . . and we will have to see what they do to improve the offense.
With Brady vs. Belichick now a real thing, I think Brady has a better chance of looking like the winner in the short term, having gone to a team with a ton of talent that just needs consistent QB play to be a playoff team, but he likely only has one or two years left, while Belichick strikes me as a guy who will coach for as long as his health allows him to do so, and I have no doubt that he will have the Patriots contending again sooner rather than later; it just might take a year or two depending on what he does at QB.  Even with Brady's decline last year, he was still better than what they are likely to get in 2020.

 
Brian Hoyer back to NE. IMO, that probably means they are out on any other starting QBs that may be on the market.
I hope they at least draft a legit prospect...a lot of issues are solved if Stidham is the real deal but I would hate to not have another possibility.

 
I hope they at least draft a legit prospect...a lot of issues are solved if Stidham is the real deal but I would hate to not have another possibility.
They would save another $910K by releasing Kessler. I would guess they would draft someone else, the question is will they try to make a move early and move up, hope someone falls to them, or wait and get a midround guy to develop.

 
Colts are on the hook for $2 million of Hoyer’s $3 million salary. Rapoport suggesting NE done with free agents. Hoyer said to be in competition to start (which I think is just a way to motivate Stidham with very little chance the Pats would roll with Hoyer).  

LINK

 
They would save another $910K by releasing Kessler. I would guess they would draft someone else, the question is will they try to make a move early and move up, hope someone falls to them, or wait and get a midround guy to develop.
Wish they still had that #2...with three #3's they would have even more flexibility.

 
Gostkowski released. IIRC, they will save $3.5 million in cap space (while burning $1.2 million in dead cap money).

 
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The McCourty’s are already playing the no respect card. I am guessing there will be a lot of what are we, chopped liver? comments coming. For a team never lacking motivation, they will be extra motivated this year. 

 
Here is what I did with the Patriots in the Shark Pool Mock Draft. 

The New England Patriots' draft:

(traded away LG Joe Thuney & 2021 5th for QB Andy Dalton & pick 65)
23 WR Tee Higgins
65 QB Jake Fromm
87 WR Tyler Johnson
98 EDGE Darrell Taylor
100 ILB Logan Wilson

The Patriots have a lot of work to do this offseason. They lost Brady, their receiving corps leaves a lot to be desired, their front 7 lost LB Jamie Collins, EDGE Kyle Van Noy, and LB Elandon Roberts, their O line lost G/C Ted Karras & it's unclear if C David Andrews will be able to play this year, they're up against the salary cap this year, and many of their better players are old and/or in the last year of their contract including franchise tagged LG Joe Thuney and 34-year-old WR Julian Edelman.

QB has to be a focus of any team's plan, so let's start there. If you don't have a good QB, the main options, roughly, are to go big (with an early draft pick or a big trade or FA contract), to take a bunch of shots (at not-too-costly guys who have a chance to be the guy), or to be patient (and have a bad QB for some years until you get a chance to go big). The Patriots don't the resources to go big, and they are too competitive to just be patient, so I wanted to take some shots. Multiple shots, since none of them have great odds of panning out. If none do then NE will be forced to be patient.

So my first move was the Thuney trade, which wound up yielding two shots at QB in Dalton and Fromm. Moving on from his franchise tag contract opened up some cap room for Dalton, and given the team's situation for this year it didn't make much sense to pay to keep Thuney around for just one season - NE should either trade him or sign him long term. Trade was the only option allowed in this mock, so I went with it. I was able to get an early enough pick in return so that I'd likely have a shot at either Hurts or Fromm, the two day 2 QBs who have the most promise in my eyes. Fromm was the only one left when that pick came up, which gives New England Stidham, Dalton, and Fromm as their 3 shots at QB. All three have the virtue of fitting into something close to the scheme that the Patriots were running with Brady, which is convenient especially when you don't know which one will be your guy. Belichick, McDaniels, and co. would've been up for trying to build an offense around Hurts, but this makes things easier.

Building a receiving corps was the next biggest priority, since the impact of the lack of receivers was very apparent with Brady last year and will make things even worse as the Patriots try to sort out their QB situation. In a real life it would be nice to trade down from 23 given the depth of this WR class, but I wanted to keep things moving so I just took a WR there. The Patriots seem to prefer to save resources by getting a relatively cheap high-volume shifty WR in the slot, while sometimes using more premium resources on receivers who can threaten the defense more down the field, so I chose to spend this premium pick on Higgins over Shenault (on the whole I think they're both in the same tier as each other, as well as the top players who were left at 23 at other positions). Harry might be a similar player, but I have my doubts about him and if they both pan out I wouldn't mind having two. By pick 87, getting another WR was a less pressing need (but still something that the offensive could definitely benefit from) and Tyler Johnson was a great value as one of the most productive WRs in college football over the past 2 years so I doubled up at WR. That gives the Patriots future QB Higgins, Harry, Johnson, and maybe some of the other guys on their roster like Edelman, Sanu, or Meyers.

This left a couple compensatory picks at the end of the 3rd to address other positions. I strongly considered O line there, might have taken a center there if I had more inside info on Andrews's health or if Hennessy or Biadasz offered more positional flexibility, and maybe should've just gone with LG Jonah Jackson. Also considered TE, but not that thrilled with any of the players. Ended up using both picks on the front 7 to acquire a bull rusher and a tackling machine. One more shot to add a potential starter in rd 4, then no picks till rd 6 where NE has 7 picks to use on dart throws and special teamers (maybe PK Rodrigo Blankenship if he falls to 195, or close enough to be worth trading up for).

 
I am enjoying the piling on going on right now with regard to the state of the Patriots. How do they not have a QB? How are they not signing any players? All the big free agents will be gone! Any day now they HAVE to be signing Newton or Winston, right? This team is a dumpster fire! They should trade Edelman ASAP. Gronk was lucky he got out when he did. They'll be lucky to win 4 games . . . and that's IF Stidham works out! After all these years winning the AFC East . . . all the way to 4th in the division. How is BB still the coach . . . get him out of there, he's losing his marbles! He's an embarrassment! All the cheating in the world won't be able to save this team! All the starters are getting gobbled up by other teams . . . and all they do is sign special teamers! And they don't even have a kicker! Tampa is printing their SB tickets and NE won't be able to give tickets away! It's going to be the 70's all over again!!!!!!!!!

 

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