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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread


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40 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

Does this even out with draft capital loss and cap hit between total moves including the Trent Brown trade? Meaning after both trades Patriots evened it all out?

In moving from Cannon to Brown, it will cost them roughly $4 million more against the cap. They moved up 11 picks in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds. And they lost a 5th and gained a 7th in the Brown deal. They were most likely going to cut Cannon, so the pick upgrades were a bonus. 

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30 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

In moving from Cannon to Brown, it will cost them roughly $4 million more against the cap. They moved up 11 picks in the 4th, 5th, and 6th rounds. And they lost a 5th and gained a 7th in the Brown deal. They were most likely going to cut Cannon, so the pick upgrades were a bonus. 

According to my calculations, based on trade value chart, the Patriots gained the equivalent of a end of round 6 draft pick. And evidently lost 4 million in cap space. Counting both moves. 

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With NE currently having a lot of cap room and with multiple players only signed through this season, Spotrac has the Pats with $211 million in cap space for 2022. A chunk of that is the $60+ million they haven’t used this year yet, but the point is they can create almost an entirely different team next year. 

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1 minute ago, Anarchy99 said:

With NE currently having a lot of cap room and with multiple players only signed through this season, Spotrac has the Pats with $211 million in cap space for 2022. A chunk of that is the $60+ million they haven’t used this year yet, but the point is they can create almost an entirely different team next year. 

Will be a great time to be a free agent ace special teams player because BB will be calling...

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6 hours ago, Blackbear said:

According to my calculations, based on trade value chart, the Patriots gained the equivalent of a end of round 6 draft pick. And evidently lost 4 million in cap space. Counting both moves. 

I remember being mortified when Trent Brown left for SF.  Dude blocks out the sun.  Huge upgrade over Cannon in a year where money is not an issue, and the 6th round pick is just icing.

 

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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/15/report-patriots-reopen-lines-of-communication-with-joe-thuney/

This is very interesting...if he were to resign it would have some type of domino effect...would Onwenu move to RT?  Would Wynn be the odd man out?  if they sign Thuney would they then invest money in Andrews and if they don't who plays center?  Thuney has been an emergency C but they wouldn't give him a big contract then move his position, would they?  I have viewed Thuney leaving as a done deal (and still kind of do) but have zero issues re-signing him...it would be real interesting to see how it effects the rest of the line if he surprises and stays.

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1 minute ago, Boston said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/15/report-patriots-reopen-lines-of-communication-with-joe-thuney/

This is very interesting...if he were to resign it would have some type of domino effect...would Onwenu move to RT?  Would Wynn be the odd man out?  if they sign Thuney would they then invest money in Andrews and if they don't who plays center?  Thuney has been an emergency C but they wouldn't give him a big contract then move his position, would they?  I have viewed Thuney leaving as a done deal (and still kind of do) but have zero issues re-signing him...it would be real interesting to see how it effects the rest of the line if he surprises and stays.

Onwenu played both guards and right tackle last season. So he is movable. I think if Thuney stays then you could leave Onwenu at right tackle and leave Thuney at left guard. Though you could easily swap the two if Onwenu isn’t as good in pass protection. He played guard mostly in college so guard may be where he shines brightest. This means Brown at left tackle and Mason stays at right guard. Then you try keep Andrews or draft a center. That Meinerz is a projected second round interior lineman that looks like a beast. Wynn is a wildcard. It is hard for me to figure out his role because he is injured so much. He may not be capable of playing a full season without injury. If you don’t resign Thuney I guess Wynn is your tackle and Onwenu is your left guard.

It is looking like a top oline as long as no injuries. 

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8 minutes ago, Boston said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/03/15/report-patriots-reopen-lines-of-communication-with-joe-thuney/

This is very interesting...if he were to resign it would have some type of domino effect...would Onwenu move to RT?  Would Wynn be the odd man out?  if they sign Thuney would they then invest money in Andrews and if they don't who plays center?  Thuney has been an emergency C but they wouldn't give him a big contract then move his position, would they?  I have viewed Thuney leaving as a done deal (and still kind of do) but have zero issues re-signing him...it would be real interesting to see how it effects the rest of the line if he surprises and stays.

I think we will start to see some players considering staying on their teams, probably more than usual. Aaron Jones of GB said he found that a lot of teams didn't have money to spend (or weren't looking to break the bank for a RB) and opted to take what the Packers offered. The Jets have been linked to Thuney, but a lot depends on what another team is willing to pay him. What I find interesting is how places describe Thuney . . . some have called him an above average guard with iron man availability.

I also have seen a couple of crazy mocks where the Pats make a ton of trades . . . including moving Shaq Mason. I am sure they would want Andrews back (and his health issues might scare other teams away). Plus Ted Karras is a free agent again.

I suppose for me it depends what they would have to pay Thuney to stick around. If the choice is a premium WR or TE or Thuney, then it's hate to see you go for Thuney. Thuney's production took a hit last year according to PFF. I looked up most of the guards from last year and here's how PFF rated them . . .

Wyatt Teller 92.9
Zack Martin 91.3
Ali Marpet 86.7
Quentin Nelson 86.2
Shaq Mason 85.4
Joe Bitonio 84.6
Michael Onwenu 84.3
Brandon Scherff 84.1
Lane Taylor 81.6
Richie Incognito 81.4
Laken Tomlinson 78.8
Chris Lindstrom 77.1
Cody Whitehair 76.3
Joe Thuney 74.2
Conor Williams 70.8
Rodger Saffold 70.2

Thuney was a Top 15 guard last year, which makes him roughly one of the Top 25% of 64 starters in the league. Is that worth shelling out $12-15 million a year (if not more)? Like I mentioned earlier, to me it depends on what other sports they would have to allocate fewer dollars. IMO, the line is probably good enough on its own and that money would probably be better spent elsewhere, but I am a few rings behind BB so what do I know.

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1 hour ago, Anarchy99 said:

I think we will start to see some players considering staying on their teams, probably more than usual. Aaron Jones of GB said he found that a lot of teams didn't have money to spend (or weren't looking to break the bank for a RB) and opted to take what the Packers offered. The Jets have been linked to Thuney, but a lot depends on what another team is willing to pay him. What I find interesting is how places describe Thuney . . . some have called him an above average guard with iron man availability.

I also have seen a couple of crazy mocks where the Pats make a ton of trades . . . including moving Shaq Mason. I am sure they would want Andrews back (and his health issues might scare other teams away). Plus Ted Karras is a free agent again.

I suppose for me it depends what they would have to pay Thuney to stick around. If the choice is a premium WR or TE or Thuney, then it's hate to see you go for Thuney. Thuney's production took a hit last year according to PFF. I looked up most of the guards from last year and here's how PFF rated them . . .

Wyatt Teller 92.9
Zack Martin 91.3
Ali Marpet 86.7
Quentin Nelson 86.2
Shaq Mason 85.4
Joe Bitonio 84.6
Michael Onwenu 84.3
Brandon Scherff 84.1
Lane Taylor 81.6
Richie Incognito 81.4
Laken Tomlinson 78.8
Chris Lindstrom 77.1
Cody Whitehair 76.3
Joe Thuney 74.2
Conor Williams 70.8
Rodger Saffold 70.2

Thuney was a Top 15 guard last year, which makes him roughly one of the Top 25% of 64 starters in the league. Is that worth shelling out $12-15 million a year (if not more)? Like I mentioned earlier, to me it depends on what other sports they would have to allocate fewer dollars. IMO, the line is probably good enough on its own and that money would probably be better spent elsewhere, but I am a few rings behind BB so what do I know.

Bertrand and Zo are saying there isn’t much to this rumor of keeping Thuney. They believe Pats botched keeping him when they decided not to give him a contract last year and franchised him. 

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Just now, Blackbear said:

Bertrand and Zo are saying there isn’t much to this rumor of keeping Thuney. They believe Pats botched keeping him when they decided not to give him a contract last year and franchised him. 

I don’t think botched is the right word. They weren’t going to pay him near what he wanted. So they tagged him. He’s good, but he’s not worth Top 5 offensive lineman money. 

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Just now, Anarchy99 said:

I don’t think botched is the right word. They weren’t going to pay him near what he wanted. So they tagged him. He’s good, but he’s not worth Top 5 offensive lineman money. 

I think the fact Onwenu outperformed him as a rookie sixth rounder put things in perspective in terms of money deserved. Let Jets overpay him I guess. 

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Just now, Blackbear said:

They are going after D line now I bet. Resign Guy, or is he gone now?

They are in on Curtis Samuel. I have heard they are talking to Golladay (although that one seems sketchy). Pass rushers have been getting paid, so they might wait for cheaper options. 

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1 minute ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

Now if we can just land Marvin Jones or Curtis Samuel and call it a day....

 

Samuel, ok. But Jones will be an overpay. He’s going to get a huge deal. I doubt this is a realistic signing given his age and what Belichick is doing. He’s not investing heavy on long in the tooth types. But I could be wrong. 

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2 minutes ago, Kraft... said:

Thats two guys that are 26 so far, nice to see guys brought in with some solid prime years in front of them :thumbup:

Not that you need to change moniker, but Kraft manufacturing wasn’t cheese and macaroni. I believe he was a woods, pulp, paper manufacturer. 

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4 minutes ago, humpback said:

3rd highest paid TE in the league and more guaranteed money than Kelce seems a bit excessive.

I think it might be a situation where he see ahead and not hindsight. If he built teams based on hindsight we’d all be still pissing in the horse troff at Sullivan stadium. He and his staff have been following players since their high school years. 

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8 minutes ago, humpback said:

3rd highest paid TE in the league and more guaranteed money than Kelce seems a bit excessive.

Free agents reset the market all the time. If Kelce were a free agent, he'd get way more than Smith did. But he's not.

On a side note, Smith becomes the highest non-QB skilled position player in Patriots history with his $12.5M per year average.

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17 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

Not that you need to change moniker, but Kraft manufacturing wasn’t cheese and macaroni. I believe he was a woods, pulp, paper manufacturer. 

Username isn't Patriots related. It was shortened here years ago from "IndividuallyWrapedKraftSingles". I've always been a fan of Kraft cheese food. 

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36 minutes ago, SeniorVBDStudent said:

HUGE signing.  Jonnu >>>> Rudolph (at this point in his career) and Henry.

Ecstatic with this news!

 

I'd still like to get Rudolph.  And trade up for Lance so he can learn from cam.  Build the Baltimore offense but with belichick.

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2 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

I think the signing so far indicate Belichick making this team a glove for a new Drafted young QB. 

Well, before the free agency flurry of news, they were talking about this on the radio. It was unanimous that they felt they would go defense with their first pick (and they could even trade down). And they felt Cam would start all season (also unanimous). They felt they might look at QB options in the 2nd or 3rd round (say Trask as an example), but they felt they wouldn't burn a first on one. The only exception would be if one of the main guys was in a free fall, in which case they might trade back into the first round to take a guy that had fallen into the 25-30 range. But they seemed pretty resolute that Cam was going to be the starter all year (which didn't wow me).

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Just now, bostonfred said:

https://twitter.com/patspulpit/status/1371505493391314948?s=19

On that note it looks like they are kicking the tires on upgrading the running back position 

And also that the rb market is pretty competitive right now

I saw / heard this too . . . but who's really out there at RB? Conner? Drake? Gurley? Fournette? Bell? Mack? Not really sure that RB is a dire position of need or that any significant upgrade would be worth the money.

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2 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

https://twitter.com/patspulpit/status/1371505493391314948?s=19

On that note it looks like they are kicking the tires on upgrading the running back position 

And also that the rb market is pretty competitive right now

I doubt that Belichick would over pay for RB. He’s done very well at cultivating production at RBs with little money spent. He knows how draft those, ol, dL, and special teamers. He should spend free agent money on pass catchers because he’s not drafting those very well. 🙂

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17 minutes ago, Blackbear said:

I think it might be a situation where he see ahead and not hindsight. If he built teams based on hindsight we’d all be still pissing in the horse troff at Sullivan stadium. He and his staff have been following players since their high school years. 

Obviously, but let's not act like they've been perfect as talent evaluators. When you pay way up for potential your margin of error decreases substantially- he needs to be really, really good just to justify that contract, and there's very little chance that it turns out to be a "bargain".

13 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Free agents reset the market all the time. If Kelce were a free agent, he'd get way more than Smith did. But he's not.

On a side note, Smith becomes the highest non-QB skilled position player in Patriots history with his $12.5M per year average.

Kelce just signed his extension in August. Sure, he wasn't a FA, but KC lowered his near term cap hit with the deal so it's not like he had zero leverage. It's a lot of money for a guy who has been more potential than production so far.

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9 minutes ago, bostonfred said:

https://twitter.com/patspulpit/status/1371505493391314948?s=19

On that note it looks like they are kicking the tires on upgrading the running back position 

And also that the rb market is pretty competitive right now

RB is a sneaky need for them...Harris and Michel are somewhat similar and Michel is probably on his last year here...It is time to move on from Burkhead, I like him but he can not stay on the field...White is a FA and may move on and no one really knows how they feel about JJ Taylor...I can’t click thru on this link but the guy I would like them to go after is Jamaal Williams, he a well rounded back and you can probably get him at an affordable price.

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They are stretching it today. Terrible that they try hard to rock the fan base without any amo. Imagine this will be a terrible show for them. Haha. Mazz struggling to find negative fuel to fire the furnace. They will fall back on no plan on qb. Knuckle heads. 

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48 minutes ago, humpback said:

3rd highest paid TE in the league and more guaranteed money than Kelce seems a bit excessive.

From this article it looks like Kelce's deal was a very team friendly deal.   Looks like he restructured to help the team out.  From the article:

The Chiefs have maximum salary cap flexible because of how Kelce's contract is structured. Should Kelce's skills rapidly start to diminish, Kansas City can exit the deal as early as 2022 without any salary cap consequences.

Kelce didn't get enough money in his existing contract years or security to give up four years. The Chiefs essentially have four team options with Kelce starting in 2022, his first new contract year.

One can only assume that Kelce really wants to be in KC and that the $$ wasn't his first priority.

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16 minutes ago, Anarchy99 said:

Per just about anyone that has covered the Pats now or in the past, NE said to be deep into talks with edge rusher Matt Judon.

Seems weird given the bulk there in Winovich, Uche, and Jennings. 

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