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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (4 Viewers)

The Patriots are signing LB Raekwon McMillan, formerly of the Raiders and a 2nd round pick by MIA. I guess they weren't in love with the young guys from the last couple of drafts (Winovich, Uche, Jennings). Those guys will have to fight for snaps.

 
Juju on one year at 8 million to stay in Pittsburgh. This makes the Pats signings look too high.
But they didn't know at the time that teams would not be shelling out money for WR. They wanted to get guys they thought fit their scheme. If Agholor and Bourne don't do much this year, we can revisit that they wasted their money after the season is over.

 
Juju on one year at 8 million to stay in Pittsburgh. This makes the Pats signings look too high.
Yes and no...the Pats wanted to get a guy right away and my guess is Agohlor jumped on a deal that a guy like Juju or Fuller probably would not have looked at prior to this WR market crashing.

 
Yes and no...the Pats wanted to get a guy right away and my guess is Agohlor jumped on a deal that a guy like Juju or Fuller probably would not have looked at prior to this WR market crashing.
Sure, this is the risk of signing first. They overpaid it seems. Surprised Juju largest offer was 9 million per year. 

 
But they didn't know at the time that teams would not be shelling out money for WR. They wanted to get guys they thought fit their scheme. If Agholor and Bourne don't do much this year, we can revisit that they wasted their money after the season is over.
This in a big way...sure the WR crashed but if the Pats waited they may have been left with nothing...with the train-wreck their WR situation was that is not a chance they could take and with all their cap space it would have been reckless...also, with Cam at QB I can’t see any guy that is looking to jump right back into free agency next year hitching their future to him.

 
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This in a big way...sure the WR crashed but if the Pats waited they may have been left with nothing...with the train-wreck their WR situation was that is not a chance they could take and with all their cap space it would have been reckless...also, with Cam at QB I can’t see any guy that is looking to jump right back into free agency next year hitching their future to him.
This reminds me back in another life when we could go to concerts, my wife would jump on line to get tickets for shows exactly when they released tickets and they were going to sell out in minutes. She would get assigned to seats and had like 3 minutes to finish the transaction. She would hem and haw and debate trying to get seats in a different section. She would then forgo those seats to look for others and all the tickets would all be gone.

I don't fault NE for going after WRs . . . clearly that was a huge need. The question we should be having is not that they overpaid for them . . . but which receivers should they really have gone after. I've poked around some more since they signed Agholor and Bourne, and some football people (more so than media people) think those two were actually good targets and were either under utilized or not fully used properly. Hopefully they're right, but as long as Cam is short hopping the ball to them, my expectations and enthusiasm are somewhat tempered.

 
If Bill doesn't make a splash in the QB market, or name Stidham the starter, we will all be stuck waiting for the regular season to answer the one question everyone has, which is at what level can Cam perform with B-B+ offensive unit?  Last year the entire unit was D grade, so 2021 projections are just that.

 
Unless, like me, you think JuJu is garbage.
PFF grades for 2020 . . .

Agholor 73.8
Bourne 72.0
JJSS 68.2

I get that one year does not a career make. And just because PFF saw things one way doesn't mean only their opinion matters. But IMO, JJSS has been a little overrated. He just saw a ton of targets , , , averaging 8.6 yards per reception is nothing to write home about.

 
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PFF grades for 2020 . . .

Agholor 73.8
Bourne 72.0
JJSS 68.2

I get that one year does not a career make. And just because PFF saw things one way doesn't mean only their opinion matters. But IMO, JJSS has been a little overrated. He just saw a ton of targets , , , averaging 8.6 yards per reception is nothing to write home about.
Jakobi Meyers had a 78.6

 
Jakobi Meyers had a 78.6
That only makes sense . . . he was their best receiving option last year.

Edelman 68.8
Olszewski 66.5
Byrd 61.4
Harry 57.8

That says a lot about how putrid their WR corps was last year (having Meyers as the highest rated WR). When that player throws for more TD (2) than he caught (0), you know you have issues.
 

 
That only makes sense . . . he was their best receiving option last year.

Edelman 68.8
Olszewski 66.5
Byrd 61.4
Harry 57.8

That says a lot about how putrid their WR corps was last year (having Meyers as the highest rated WR). When that player throws for more TD (2) than he caught (0), you know you have issues.
 
And he threw better than Newton. 🤣🙈

 
This in a big way...sure the WR crashed but if the Pats waited they may have been left with nothing...with the train-wreck their WR situation was that is not a chance they could take and with all their cap space it would have been reckless...also, with Cam at QB I can’t see any guy that is looking to jump right back into free agency next year hitching their future to him.
This is the important point I was thinking about, as well. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that these premium WRs weren't even interested in listening to NE offers. (Personally, not a fan of Juju or Galloday, so I'm fine with not pursuing / landing either)

 
Pats apparently awarded another compensatory 5th round pick. #177 overall. Now have 10 picks in draft. 

 
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Prior to his legal issues, NE is said to have been one of the teams trying to acquire Deshaun Watson. Their offer is speculated to have been two 1sts, two 2nds, and two players (Gilmore and Wynn). 

 
Prior to his legal issues, NE is said to have been one of the teams trying to acquire Deshaun Watson. Their offer is speculated to have been two 1sts, two 2nds, and two players (Gilmore and Wynn). 
That is quite a haul. Surprised Houston wouldn’t do it. Maybe they knew it would backfire if they traded Watson knowing what legal issues were looming. Seems now Belichick could use some picks to trade up and nab a top QB in the draft. I can’t imagine there is space for ten draft picks. 

 
Prior to his legal issues, NE is said to have been one of the teams trying to acquire Deshaun Watson. Their offer is speculated to have been two 1sts, two 2nds, and two players (Gilmore and Wynn). 
My guess is that would not be too tough to beat from a team like Carolina...one #1 is 15 and the other would probably be very low if the Pats actually had Watson...the players don't make sense to me...Gilmore is too old for where the Texans are at and Wynn has not been able to stay on the field and you need to make a decision of his fifth year...if I was Houston I would be eying players like Onwenu and Duggar who look like they will be real good ones and are only one year into their rookie deal.

 
That is quite a haul. Surprised Houston wouldn’t do it. Maybe they knew it would backfire if they traded Watson knowing what legal issues were looming. Seems now Belichick could use some picks to trade up and nab a top QB in the draft. I can’t imagine there is space for ten draft picks. 
Still plenty of space but Bill won’t use all those picks. They are at $25M . . . which includes $10M allocated for draft picks. That does not include 5 contracts as details have not emerged yet. Brown, Karras, Bethel, Adam’s, and McMillan deals. And so far NE has not racked on any voidable years to any contracts like other teams have been doing to invent cap space. 

In other news, they are still interested in bringing back CB Jason McCourty, although they are more focused on other things right now. Expected to get done eventually. 

 
My guess is that would not be too tough to beat from a team like Carolina...one #1 is 15 and the other would probably be very low if the Pats actually had Watson...the players don't make sense to me...Gilmore is too old for where the Texans are at and Wynn has not been able to stay on the field and you need to make a decision of his fifth year...if I was Houston I would be eying players like Onwenu and Duggar who look like they will be real good ones and are only one year into their rookie deal.
It’s like all a moot point now as it appears they have no interest in pursuing anything after all the recent allegations and court filings came out. Not after the AB and Kraft situations from last year. 

 
It’s like all a moot point now as it appears they have no interest in pursuing anything after all the recent allegations and court filings came out. Not after the AB and Kraft situations from last year. 
You would think so...a little too close to home with Kraft's situation.

 
Still plenty of space but Bill won’t use all those picks. They are at $25M . . . which includes $10M allocated for draft picks. That does not include 5 contracts as details have not emerged yet. Brown, Karras, Bethel, Adam’s, and McMillan deals. And so far NE has not racked on any voidable years to any contracts like other teams have been doing to invent cap space. 

In other news, they are still interested in bringing back CB Jason McCourty, although they are more focused on other things right now. Expected to get done eventually. 
Thanks. I was asking more about number of roster spots. Seems like drafting ten players would wasteful since a good portion would be cut in getting to 53. So trading up to nab a QB might be a less wasteful move. It seems rare that Belichick moves up though. But so far this is a rare year where he didn’t wait for bargain shopping... he got after it. If he trades up and gets a top QB there would be very little to criticize him for. So far, I like the job he has done this offseason. I’m am hopeful though that there is competition for Cam at QB so that they have a good fall back if Cam struggles again. 

 
Thanks. I was asking more about number of roster spots. Seems like drafting ten players would wasteful since a good portion would be cut in getting to 53. So trading up to nab a QB might be a less wasteful move. It seems rare that Belichick moves up though. But so far this is a rare year where he didn’t wait for bargain shopping... he got after it. If he trades up and gets a top QB there would be very little to criticize him for. So far, I like the job he has done this offseason. I’m am hopeful though that there is competition for Cam at QB so that they have a good fall back if Cam struggles again. 
Things don't really work the way quite as cut and dried as you describe it. NE has 79 spots filled on their 90 man roster. They are allowed a 53 man roster on opening day and week to week during the regular season (last year they bumped it up to 55 players on a game day roster due to COVID). Only the Top 51 most expensive players count toward the salary cap (plus any dead money). I believe they also have a 12-man practice squad still (again due to COVID). So technically they can (and at some point will) add 11 more players before they would have to worry about cutting someone to free up a spot. That doesn't include any players that are on any specialty lists (suspended, various injury designations, retirement, etc.). Basically, they can figure out ways to juggle more than 53 guys.

 
Things don't really work the way quite as cut and dried as you describe it. NE has 79 spots filled on their 90 man roster. They are allowed a 53 man roster on opening day and week to week during the regular season (last year they bumped it up to 55 players on a game day roster due to COVID). Only the Top 51 most expensive players count toward the salary cap (plus any dead money). I believe they also have a 12-man practice squad still (again due to COVID). So technically they can (and at some point will) add 11 more players before they would have to worry about cutting someone to free up a spot. That doesn't include any players that are on any specialty lists (suspended, various injury designations, retirement, etc.). Basically, they can figure out ways to juggle more than 53 guys.
Yes, understood. But you would hate to have to cut players you drafted when you knew they had little shot of making final roster. This blurb from weei mentions they won’t be surprised to see picks traded away. https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/patriots-pick-up-extra-pick-in-2021-nfl-draft
 

Do you expect them to draft 10 guys in the draft given they filled most holes and added depth?

 
Yes, understood. But you would hate to have to cut players you drafted when you knew they had little shot of making final roster. This blurb from weei mentions they won’t be surprised to see picks traded away. https://www.radio.com/weei/sports/patriots/patriots-pick-up-extra-pick-in-2021-nfl-draft
 

Do you expect them to draft 10 guys in the draft given they filled most holes and added depth?
I don't think they usually draft 10 players as BB likes to move up and down the draft board. They usually will try to add picks in future drafts. In this particular year (harder to meet with and scout players), I think BB would be less inclined to want to use picks this draft and will look to either trade up or trade out more so than usual. At this point, I think a lot of fans really hope they swing for the fences and move up and draft a QB. I actually have seen a mock or two where NE moved up in the draft . . . and didn't take a QB and then traded back into the first . . . and still didn't take a QB. That would be very Belichickian. I would get a hearty laugh if they signed two tight ends and then drafted Pitts. I admit I would be interested to see how teams would try to defend 3 TEs on the field, (But Pitts will likely go too early for that to even be a consideration.)

 
I don't think they usually draft 10 players as BB likes to move up and down the draft board. They usually will try to add picks in future drafts. In this particular year (harder to meet with and scout players), I think BB would be less inclined to want to use picks this draft and will look to either trade up or trade out more so than usual. At this point, I think a lot of fans really hope they swing for the fences and move up and draft a QB. I actually have seen a mock or two where NE moved up in the draft . . . and didn't take a QB and then traded back into the first . . . and still didn't take a QB. That would be very Belichickian. I would get a hearty laugh if they signed two tight ends and then drafted Pitts. I admit I would be interested to see how teams would try to defend 3 TEs on the field, (But Pitts will likely go too early for that to even be a consideration.)
Ok, so in the draft where are the areas we could see drafting? QB, OT, CB?

 
I like Agholor. He's got good speed and does lots of things pretty well.  They needed a veteran and a good locker room guy who can fit in on a new team and push the other receivers.  They needed an upgrade at the position and they got it. 

If they'd passed on other good free agents for him, I'd have hated it. Knowing that they didn't, I like the signing more. I think he can be a David Patten level player or maybe a little bit more, as long as they're actually throwing the ball this year. Not excited for fantasy but solid production for reality. 
I would have preferred Samuel, for that money.  If I had my choice of all of them, I would have wanted JuJu.

 
Unless, like me, you think JuJu is garbage.
On what basis?  He produces, he blocks, he has fun on the field and does not active like a diva.  He yaps on social media.  SO WHAT?  It's fun yapping on social media, not being anything close to a jerk.  I have a friend who grew up in Pittsburgh and is a huge Steelers fan and said they love him there.

I'll take him all day.  With his willingness to block, the running game and TE approach would be that much better.

 
I would have preferred Samuel, for that money.  If I had my choice of all of them, I would have wanted JuJu.
I think juju is the most talented and Samuel is great at what he does but I'm not sure either is a better fit for what they want to do than agholor. Juju is a talented receiver but he isn't a speed guy, and cam isn't accurate enough to take full advantage of his skills. Samuel is much faster but he's been used more as a gadget guy and that's tough to fit in with two tight ends. We saw how James white fit last year- not great. 

Agholor gives them a deep threat who can catch the ball in the intermediate level too. If defenses keep both safeties back to defend against deep passes and two tight ends who can both attack the seam, they can all catch short passes in space. If they play big nickel or use smaller pass coverage linebackers, those two tight ends and their receivers can all block and they've got a big mobile quarterback and running backs who can punish them on the ground.  And once they see a personnel grouping they like they can go no huddle.  It would be even more effective with a younger faster cam which is why I think they do want to draft a quarterback this year but it's going to be a much better offense this year regardless. 

 
On what basis?  He produces, he blocks, he has fun on the field and does not active like a diva.  He yaps on social media.  SO WHAT?  It's fun yapping on social media, not being anything close to a jerk.  I have a friend who grew up in Pittsburgh and is a huge Steelers fan and said they love him there.

I'll take him all day.  With his willingness to block, the running game and TE approach would be that much better.
I thought Juju was the best WR on the market. Toughness inside, great route runner, loves the game, durable as hell - hell yes gimme Juju over every FA WR including Golladay. Juju might only give you 80 yards some games. Heck, maybe 65, but you can bet it’ll be an 8/65/1 game and 5 of the 8 catches will move the chains. 

Baller. 

Golladay was the sexy upside guy. JJSS is the lunchbox guy. 

Lunchbox guys help you win more games IMO. 

 
I think juju is the most talented and Samuel is great at what he does but I'm not sure either is a better fit for what they want to do than agholor. Juju is a talented receiver but he isn't a speed guy, and cam isn't accurate enough to take full advantage of his skills. Samuel is much faster but he's been used more as a gadget guy and that's tough to fit in with two tight ends. We saw how James white fit last year- not great. 

Agholor gives them a deep threat who can catch the ball in the intermediate level too. If defenses keep both safeties back to defend against deep passes and two tight ends who can both attack the seam, they can all catch short passes in space. If they play big nickel or use smaller pass coverage linebackers, those two tight ends and their receivers can all block and they've got a big mobile quarterback and running backs who can punish them on the ground.  And once they see a personnel grouping they like they can go no huddle.  It would be even more effective with a younger faster cam which is why I think they do want to draft a quarterback this year but it's going to be a much better offense this year regardless. 
I like the add & thought the Raiders should have found a way to lock him up. He was outstanding in Oakland last year & I was someone who’d been burned by him twice in FF, so I wasn’t his biggest fan going into the season. 

he impressed the heck out of me. Showed me incredible hands (!!) ran crisp routes, improvised when Carr scrambled, and made some truly electric plays.

I agree Juju is more talented - you’re better acquainted with the pats so I’ll take your word there, but I think y’all are gonna enjoy having Aghalor on the team. 

It’s a different dude than we saw in Philly. 

 
I think juju is the most talented and Samuel is great at what he does but I'm not sure either is a better fit for what they want to do than agholor. Juju is a talented receiver but he isn't a speed guy, and cam isn't accurate enough to take full advantage of his skills. Samuel is much faster but he's been used more as a gadget guy and that's tough to fit in with two tight ends. We saw how James white fit last year- not great. 

Agholor gives them a deep threat who can catch the ball in the intermediate level too. If defenses keep both safeties back to defend against deep passes and two tight ends who can both attack the seam, they can all catch short passes in space. If they play big nickel or use smaller pass coverage linebackers, those two tight ends and their receivers can all block and they've got a big mobile quarterback and running backs who can punish them on the ground.  And once they see a personnel grouping they like they can go no huddle.  It would be even more effective with a younger faster cam which is why I think they do want to draft a quarterback this year but it's going to be a much better offense this year regardless. 
I like all of this. But James White had a bad year do to family death. 
 

love have him back. 

 
I would trade a lot. This entire draft to get Sewell. 
They need a QB 1,000 times more than they need an OT. They have more linemen than they can play. It’s way easier to get OL help later in the draft than it is to find a QB. 

I would suggest they need a WR1, a safety (Chung retired and McCourty not far behind), a CB (if they move on from Gilmore), and a RB (Michel gone after this year and White and Burkhead already gone). 

If I had to guess, moving up for Fields or Lance seems like they would fit the offense they are putting together. IMO, Mac Jones not being a dual threat guy might make him slightly less desirable. But I would be in favor of them taking any of the QBs just so they can move on from Cam. 

 
They need a QB 1,000 times more than they need an OT. They have more linemen than they can play. It’s way easier to get OL help later in the draft than it is to find a QB. 

I would suggest they need a WR1, a safety (Chung retired and McCourty not far behind), a CB (if they move on from Gilmore), and a RB (Michel gone after this year and White and Burkhead already gone). 

If I had to guess, moving up for Fields or Lance seems like they would fit the offense they are putting together. IMO, Mac Jones not being a dual threat guy might make him slightly less desirable. But I would be in favor of them taking any of the QBs just so they can move on from Cam. 
Great honesty.

im not sold on any arm in this draft

 
Great honesty.

im not sold on any arm in this draft
I’m not sold on Cam performing any better this year than last year. At times he looked lost, he made poor decisions, his accuracy wasn’t good at all, and he seemed like he couldn’t throw the ball more than 10 yards down by the  end of the season. And if you don’t like this year’s class of QBs, the crop available in 2022 is supposed to be way weaker. What I think is funny is some folks saying this isn’t a deep class for QB. There are very likely going to be 5 drafted in the first round. Add in Trask and Mond and that’s 7 guys. That seems  pretty deep to me. 

It would be nice if they came away from the draft with a legit NFL capable receiver for once. If they miss out on a QB early, one of the big three WR should be there at 15 (if they stay there). I doubt they would take a receiver there (but they probably should).
 

 
I’m not sold on Cam performing any better this year than last year. At times he looked lost, he made poor decisions, his accuracy wasn’t good at all, and he seemed like he couldn’t throw the ball more than 10 yards down by the  end of the season. And if you don’t like this year’s class of QBs, the crop available in 2022 is supposed to be way weaker. What I think is funny is some folks saying this isn’t a deep class for QB. There are very likely going to be 5 drafted in the first round. Add in Trask and Mond and that’s 7 guys. That seems  pretty deep to me. 

It would be nice if they came away from the draft with a legit NFL capable receiver for once. If they miss out on a QB early, one of the big three WR should be there at 15 (if they stay there). I doubt they would take a receiver there (but they probably should).
 
You have not given an honest critiques of the young bucks. 

 

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