Well, Belichick wanted to keep him. Did him a favor and took less to deal him to a good situation. He’s familiar with the coaching staff. He’s been decent when he was healthy. The organization likes him and the fans for the most part do. He’d have to waive his no trade clause and probably take a pay cut. But the team is set up for him to be dropped in. Give him a shot I say. Patriots have had a lot of busts on early draft picks. I say give it a whirl.
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Indefinite New England Patriots Thread (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter captain_amazing
- Start date
Boston
Footballguy
Agreed...and as I will continue to say...if you don't do this or trade up for one of the big 5 what is plan B? You can not waste two years and still be in the same spot this time next year...that is unacceptable.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
The problem with trading for Garoppolo is that would put them $13-14M over the cap. And on the injury front, he’s missed half of his career starts.
Seems like a good plan is trade for Jimmy. If fails, try trade up. If it fails draft 2nd tier QB in draft. Then see if a guy gets cut or you can trade for something before training camp. The point is, gotta try in progression and hope you have upgraded along the way. I don’t think they will be shut out. They may need to pay more than they want in draft capital, but a deal can be reached. IThe top scenario is you get Jimmy for future first. You see what falls at 15, take best available. You enter camp with four QBs and cut/trade Stidham.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Boston
Footballguy
The x-factor is does Jimmy G want to go back to New England...if so, I don't have any concerns that they can figure out a way to restructure the contract or that the Pats can find some room...he's a short-timer in San Fran and if he can dictate his next team and be in a position to be a long-term starter I think he will be flexible with a new deal although it's not gonna be cut-rate.
Evidently Atlanta is open to having calls about trading down... https://www.thefalcoholic.com/2021/4/5/22367860/atlanta-has-reportedly-discussed-trading-down-in-2021-nfl-draft
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Thoughts on if Belichick will let scouts have more of a say in drafting this season? https://larrybrownsports.com/football/bill-belichick-2019-draft-ignoring-patriots-scouts/576641
Anarchy99
Footballguy
They did? The Jets were taking Wilson regardless and they were not going to roll out Darnold again. They get a 6th round pick this year (the other picks are next year). If you want to say the Jets are better with Wilson, sure I get that. But we already knew that, so I guess my question is what else changed?
I’m trying to be nice to you. But anything I say you come after me like a ankle biter.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
In 2022. What changed for 2021?
Given the Jets recent track record in the 2nd round, Carolina may have actually made them weaker. In the last decade, they've taken Denzel Mims, Christian Hackenberg, Devin Smith, Jace Amaro, Geno Smith, Stephen Hill, and Vladimir Ducasse in the second round. That rivals the Patriots ineptitude of 2nd round draft picks.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I'm not trying to be nasty, just didn't see how the NYJ situation changed much. If you were being sarcastic, so be it.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Anarchy99
Footballguy
If NE couldn't get a QB in the first round and Garoppolo was not available, who would you want starting for NE next year of the following options: Newton, Stidham, Dolegala, Bridgewater, Alex Smith, or one of the not Top 5 rookie QBs?
Anarchy99
Footballguy
What's wrong with the question? NE may not have many options if the draft doesn't fall their way.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not an option in what I presented.
That being said, I think Lance is the most likely to bust of the rookie QBs. Too young, skipped the season, hardly played (17 starts), ran a ton but passed a little (318 passes to 192 rushes), only averaged 18 passes a game the one season he played, only one game in his career with 250+ passing yards, and played against cupcake competition. Averaged 5 yards per attempt and threw a pick in his only game of the season.
I agree with Chris Simms that Lance is lower than the other guys (Simms has him ranked 6th in this QB class). Basically, too hard to tell from a guy with a little over 300 collegiate passes. Trevor Lawrence had over 1,100. On my draft board, I would not have Lance as a first round pick. I'd have him more as a Day 2 developmental project.
Duly noted that you like him and think he can become something. But I don't think that would be in 2021 if NE selected him.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I get it. We all have opinions. From what you've seen, you like what you see. I haven't ever seen him play. Looking back at former draft busts, IMO he trends more into that category than the future success category. But that certainly is a data driven approach and not an eyeball watching game tape approach.
The talk I heard on Lance is several years down the road he could potentially develop into something. So if he won't play until 2023, what do the Pats do until then? I know some folks have fallen in love with his big play ability, but again, my concern is the conference he played in isn't exactly filled with pro caliber defenders or defensive coordinators.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Cutting Vitale and LaCosse would probably save them real dollars but not as much in terms of cap dollars. Between them, they would only shave $840,000 off the team cap number as of today (the next two highest contracts on the team would count against the cap instead, as only the Top 51 contracts count against the cap). Cutting them would cost $250,000 against the cap, so the actual cap savings would likely be about $590,000 . . . not the $2.5 million it appears on the surface. But every little bit helps and it would free up two roster spots and would help them roster their rookies. Hard to really figure that all out as they could make other roster moves to shake up their Top 51 contracts.
Boston
Footballguy
The Falcons is a deal you can make now if you want but Detroit would have to be a draft-day deal as you could potentially miss out on the big 5 and you would have to also like all 5 to make that deal...I hope they rip the band-aid off and deal for #4 or get Jimmy G...if not you will be playing this exact same game next season in a year where right now the rookies don't look as deep and their doesn't seem to be many veteran options.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not to beat a dead horse, but between their reported cap space, what they have to allocate for Chung retiring, and cap space for rookies, the Patriots only have about $5 million in cap space left. That effectively rules out trading for the Garoppolo's and Bridgewater's of the world unless they rework their deals with their current teams. And by doing so, they would most likely be costing themselves money and racking up multi-million-dollar cap hits on the teams they would be leaving, so neither one of those makes sense on that side of the deal. Logistically, the best way for them to bring in a veteran would be after someone is released. And it's very unlikely Garoppolo / Bridgewater / Ryan would even be flat out cut.
Sadly, inside the building I think enough people think they could make thinks work with Cam that they may just roll the dice with Newton rather than give a huge package to move up. Instead, they probably will take one of the leftovers in the draft in the second round and see if they can develop someone.
Personally, I would much rather they didn't sign Judon and allocated that money to bring in a veteran QB. But we are where we are and they will have to work within the limitations they brought upon themselves.
Boston
Footballguy
Gotta believe if it means solving their QB issue they can carve out some space...that being said if they don't want to obtain a vet because of that or don't want to trade up than this season already has a cap on it and they will still be held hostage by the QB position going forward...and if they honestly think Cam can be the answer after watching him last year than this franchise is in danger of floating into that mediocre world as no amount of beefing up other positions will help you overcome incompetent QB play.
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Anarchy99
Footballguy
I generally survey lots of different places and sources to gather information (radio, TV, Twitter, podcasts, YouTube, etc.). There are enough people out there that I put some stock into that hear that NE is ready to roll with Cam if need be and that even with him at QB they will be a playoff team. Essentially, with a regular offseason, way more practice time, no COVID to deal with, upgraded weapons, and a better mastery of the playbook . . . Cam would at least be an average starter and the infusion of new players is enough to have them competitive week to week. I get it, that's not your position and I would lean more your way than the other.
The media overall does a lousy job of providing opinions and perspective when it comes to salary cap management. I truly believe that most of them have no clue how the cap works or doesn't work, and if it were up to them they would have the Patriots spending $300M a year.
As far as creative ways to manipulate the salary cap, they certainly can try to do that with guys already on their roster, but they can't control that for players on another team's roster. As already mentioned, they are almost out of cap space for 2021. But they are almost out of cap space for 2022 as well. They have 38 players signed into next year that add up to $174M against a projected cap of $192M. Basically, they have to add 13 more players against the cap (Top 51 contract count) for next year with $18M of room to work with. (Of course they can rework deals to help get there.) And some guys will probably hit incentives that will go against the cap next season as well.
NE hasn't done what other teams have done (ie, adding voidable dummy years to lower the cap hit for this season), so I suppose they could begin to start doing that to stretch their cap dollars. This year, they have 4 players with cap hits over $9M . . .
Gilmore $16.2M
Hightower $12.4M
McCourty $11.1M
Mason $9.5M
We all know Gilmore isn't taking a pay cut, so to reduce his number they need to extend him. If they trade him, they would eat $7.6M against the cap but would net a cap savings of $8.5M for this year. They could save $10M against the cap (while eating $2.5M in dead cap money) to move on from Hightower. They stand a better chance of asking Hightower to take a haircut than Gilmore. McCourty is a much bigger problem, as they would lose more cap dollars by moving on from him than they would gain (so he is a non-starter for mining extra cap room). Mason is signed through 2023, so they could reclaim some cap space by converting his salary into a signing bonus and kick the cap hit down the road.
I am not hearing good things about Edelman, and he likely won't be healthy enough to play until well into the season. He should probably retire as his body is held together with duct tape at this point. They would gain $3.4M in cap space if he were off their roster. Even if he stayed, he would probably be more of a coach and a mentor than a contributing player. In other injury news, there are multiple videos of Burkhead out there showing his progress. He was really productive prior to getting hurt last year. I know he gets hurt a lot be he has been productive when he plays. Worth it if the price is right.
But long story short, there isn't a clear and easy path to freeing enough money to get to $25M in cap space to bring in Jimmy G. (or $18M for Bridgewater). Sure, if they don't want Gilmore and Hightower that would be a decent start (but that would only get them partway there). They would have to make multiple moves to get there. If they start announcing a bunch of moves and extensions, that would be a first sign indicator that is the direction they are going in.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
C Dustin Woodward, who was a late round pick last year but retired from football, apparently has changed his mind and been added to the active roster. Several folks felt he was going to be another late round find at the time, so he might be another OL depth piece.
In other news, with RB Gio Bernard getting released by the Bengals, the Pats will likely talk to to him.
In other news, with RB Gio Bernard getting released by the Bengals, the Pats will likely talk to to him.