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WW2 question (1 Viewer)

An invasion to any coast in the USofA is completely and utterly impossible for a multitude of reasons. Everyone with a brain knew that.
Do you realize how few troops we had on the west coast and how long it would have taken us to get what troops we did have out there?

Leas second book, The Valor of Ignorance, examined American defense and in part prophesied a war between America and Japan. It created controversy and instantly elevated his reputation as a credible geo-political spokesman. Two retired U.S. Army generals, including former Army Chief-of-Staff Adna R. Chaffee, wrote glowing introductions to the book, which also contained a striking frontispiece photograph of Lea in his lieutenant generals uniform. The book contained maps of a hypothetical Japanese invasion of California and the Philippines and was very popular among American military officers, particularly those stationed in the Philippines over the next generation. General Douglas MacArthur and his staff, for example, paid close attention to the book in planning the defense of the Philippines. The Japanese military also paid close attention to the book, which was translated into Japanese.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homer_Lea

Japan had been in war in Asia since around 1931 - basically if they had consolidated Phillipines and gotten a hold of the oil deposits there and around China they could have waited a few years more and taken us out. One main problem was we kept our carriers.
I always find it interesting how most people, articles and films will focus on Hitler as being just out of this world insane and bloodthirsty. The name Hitler is elevated to some unreal status...but not a lot has been said about Japan ' s activities. Hitler killed 6 million Jews and maybe 20 million Russians and others.Hirohito and Japan killed something like 30 million...mostly Chinese and did some unreal things to prisoners of war. Germany and Hitler really weren't the only or possibly not even the worst evil that was out there on the playing field.
The Japanese committed terrible crimes, but not sure where you got that 30 million figure from. Also Hirohito does not have anywhere near the personal responsibility of Hitler.
Well they were at war 1931-1945, that's an awfully long time. What was the death toll then?
I think it's somewhere between 3 and 10 million. That's no small number! But it's not 30.
The Japanese military during the 1930s and 1940s is often compared to the military of Nazi Germany during 1933–45 because of the sheer scale of suffering. Much of the controversy regarding Japan's role in World War II revolves around the death rates of prisoners of war and civilians under Japanese occupation. Historian Chalmers Johnson has written that:

It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians (i.e. Soviet citizens); the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians,Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers—and, in the case of the Japanese, as (forced) prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not the Soviet Union) you faced a 4% chance of not surviving the war; (by comparison) the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30%.[39]

According to the findings of the Tokyo Tribunal, the death rate among POWs from Asian countries, held by Japan was 27.1%.[40] The death rate of Chinese POWs was much higher because—under a directive ratified on August 5, 1937 by Emperor Hirohito—the constraints of international law on treatment of those prisoners was removed.[41] Only 56 Chinese POWs were released after the surrender of Japan.[42] After March 20, 1943, the Japanese Navy was under orders to execute all prisoners taken at sea.[43]

 
The scenario of the US never entering the war is really the one where Japan attacks the Soviets instead of Pearl Harbor.

Let us assume that is what actually happened. The Germans were urging Japan to attack Russia in 1941. Had that happened, you get a 5 year war where Russia tries to defend itself in a two front war between Germany and Japan and the US eats popcorn watching the show. Experts are divided on the outcome but I think the majority opinion is Russia eventually loses.

 
The scenario of the US never entering the war is really the one where Japan attacks the Soviets instead of Pearl Harbor.

Let us assume that is what actually happened. The Germans were urging Japan to attack Russia in 1941. Had that happened, you get a 5 year war where Russia tries to defend itself in a two front war between Germany and Japan and the US eats popcorn watching the show. Experts are divided on the outcome but I think the majority opinion is Russia eventually loses.
Indeed. In fact, the Soviet Union would probably have lost the battle for Moscow (and possibly the war) had it not been that they were able to urgently transfer over 200,000 troops, 1700 tanks and 1500 aircraft from the Far East because their spy in Tokyo Richard Sorge assured them that Japan would not attack the Soviet Union.

 
Riversco said:
The scenario of the US never entering the war is really the one where Japan attacks the Soviets instead of Pearl Harbor.

Let us assume that is what actually happened. The Germans were urging Japan to attack Russia in 1941. Had that happened, you get a 5 year war where Russia tries to defend itself in a two front war between Germany and Japan and the US eats popcorn watching the show. Experts are divided on the outcome but I think the majority opinion is Russia eventually loses.
Problem is Japan really was in no position to make war on Russia without securing their rear and oil supplies. The British and American oil embargo put Japan on a clock militarily and they estimated that they only had a year before the military would be unable to function properly.

Better plan late 1940 Germany puts overwhelming force into the north African desert, seizes Malta, Eygyt, pushes into the middle east depriving Britain of oil and securing their own supply. If this doesn't make churchhill's government fall it makes them wholly dependent on America. By mid 1941 Germany is in a position to attack the Caucasus directly from Iran and or Turkey, threatening to deprive Russia of her oil supplies without having to advance 1000 plus kilometers. This also makes an axis hookup in the Indian Ocean much more possible if not certain. If a German attack in 1942 seizes Russian oil from the beginning and infkicts terrible losses on the European front maybe Russia falls in a year and at least the German Empire is established. Japan can be supported by Germany not engaged in all out war with Russia. Likely outcome Cold War between America and Axis.

 
Germany and/or Japan could never overcome the challenges of either ocean in order to invade. There isnt a staging area on either side. Add in the lack of air support and its impossible.
If Germany takes England and then Iceland they would have a staging area.

Another possibility for Germany that I don't think has been discussed is going to South America first. If we hadn't entered the war they could have won in North Africa and then rolled down to the Liberia area. From there they could have gone to South America. Still a very large distance (2900km), but they had friendly countries on that continent that would have helped them and obviously the military resistance would have be much weaker.

Certainly I don't think that the fact that Germany didn't have the naval or amphibious capabilities in the actual war doesn't mean that they couldn't have developed them in our alternate timeline.

 

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